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Caserio Trades Mark Ingram

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Not to the tune of spending OVER $100MM in free agency.
Why is there something wrong with this strategy?

The Texans will be in a position to do the same in 2023 or 2024.

They need to draft and get a core group of players to attract FAs. In 2-3 years they could be.

Otherwise you will get a bunch of over paid FAs who don’t want to be here. See Eric Moulds and Ed Reed.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
A lot of the contracts that they spent that $159.6MM on where for 4-years. One was even for 5 years. Understanding that contracts usually have escalations, but that averages about $40MM per year, or less than a quarter of the current salary cap.
 

Jack Burton

Rookie
Except you're putting the cart before horse. Belichick/Kraft restocked the team before they drafted their QB.
Would you have an issue if it all went to plan with Watson, they get a bunch of picks for him and they don’t draft a QB in this draft but draft foundational players instead and look to draft a QB the following year?
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Would you have an issue if it all went to plan with Watson, they get a bunch of picks for him and they don’t draft a QB in this draft but draft foundational players instead and look to draft a QB the following year?
That was kind of my plan for this year. I was all in for Quinn Meinerz at #67. I've also said countless time the best way to rebuild is from the inside out. Start with the trenches and add skilled players after.

This was my draft with the original 9 2021 draft picks:

#67 - Quinn Meinerz OC - Made Broncos 53 man roster.
#109 - Bobby Brown III DL - Made Rams 53 man roster.
#122 - Tommy Togiai, DL - Made Browns 53 man roster.
#147 - Ihmir Smith-Marsette, WR - Made Vikes 53 man roster.
#158 - Brenden Jaimes, OT - Made Chargers 53 man roster.
#195 - Tay Gowans, CB - Made Cards 53 man roster.
#202 - James Wiggins, S - Released by Cards.
#212 - Jonathan Cooper, Edge - Made Broncos 53 man roster
#233 - Cade Johnson, WR - Released by the Seahawks.

It's a case of using the Jimmy Johnson and Bill Belichick blueprint of having more draft picks means being able to draft more players. More players means more 4 year contracts to fill out the roster. Especially in rebuilding years. Some may not understand but this is salary cap friendly and makes for responsible long term salary cap management.
 
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Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
It's a case of using the Jimmy Johnson and Bill Belichick blueprint of having more draft picks means being able to draft more players. More players means more 4 year contracts to fill out the roster. Especially in rebuilding years. Some may not understand but this is salary cap friendly and makes for responsible long term salary cap management.
Oh, I think everyone understands. It's just that after pissing away a bunch of picks for nothing, it no longer fits the Caserio lovers' narratives.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Oh, I think everyone understands. It's just that after pissing away a bunch of picks for nothing, it no longer fits the Caserio lovers' narratives.
Or it could be that some posters value quality over quantity. Maybe y'all value those 6th/7th rd picks more than most. If that's the case y'all should be real happy, Caserio currently has three 6th's and a 7th so y'all must be crapping bricks in happiness.

Gie me less picks, say 5 or 6, maybe 7 out of the 2022 draft instead of 10 and I'm happy. Including trading back into the 2nd using the Saints pick and 4-2 so Caserio can add 4 top 100 players in this draft and 3 late 6-7th's for the long shots y'all seem to be overly coveting. IMHO
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Or it could be that some posters value quality over quantity. Maybe y'all value those 6th/7th rd picks more than most. If that's the case y'all should be real happy, Caserio currently has three 6th's and a 7th so y'all must be crapping bricks in happiness.

Gie me less picks, say 5 or 6, maybe 7 out of the 2022 draft instead of 10 and I'm happy. Including trading back into the 2nd using the Saints pick and 4-2 so Caserio can add 4 top 100 players in this draft and 3 late 6-7th's for the long shots y'all seem to be overly coveting. IMHO
They love them.....until they have to watch them play significant time. Ask Derek Newton and Alfred Blue about that.
 
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TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Or it could be that some posters value quality over quantity. Maybe y'all value those 6th/7th rd picks more than most. If that's the case y'all should be real happy, Caserio currently has three 6th's and a 7th so y'all must be crapping bricks in happiness.

Gie me less picks, say 5 or 6, maybe 7 out of the 2022 draft instead of 10 and I'm happy. Including trading back into the 2nd using the Saints pick and 4-2 so Caserio can add 4 top 100 players in this draft and 3 late 6-7th's for the long shots y'all seem to be overly coveting. IMHO
It’s odd because they complain that he traded a 6th for a player that he may have cut, but then he traded a player on the current roster for a 6th and then is disappointed.

I personally (if this works) trade a current sixth for next years 5. Then keep doing that year over year over year. Then you could have a couple extra 2-4 Round picks. 3-4 years from now.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
It’s odd because they complain that he traded a 6th for a player that he may have cut, but then he traded a player on the current roster for a 6th and then is disappointed.

I personally (if this works) trade a current sixth for next years 5. Then keep doing that year over year over year. Then you could have a couple extra 2-4 Round picks. 3-4 years from now.
Yep, I'm either for using the lower picks to trade up for higher top 100-150 picks. Or doing what your idea is. I rarely would sit in the 6-7th rds and make a pick if given the opportunity to make trades.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Why is there something wrong with this strategy?

The Texans will be in a position to do the same in 2023 or 2024.

They need to draft and get a core group of players to attract FAs. In 2-3 years they could be.

Otherwise you will get a bunch of over paid FAs who don’t want to be here. See Eric Moulds and Ed Reed.
Except players are going to play for the 🐐 coach and one of the best organizations in sports. What do the Texans have to offer except money? When given choices, players aren't going to choose Texans because they're a poor organization from the top down
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Except players are going to play for the 🐐 coach and one of the best organizations in sports. What do the Texans have to offer except money? When given choices, players aren't going to choose Texans because they're a poor organization from the top down
Depends on who the HC is and how well Caserio drafts over the next 3 years.

Say McDaniels comes in and Caserio has done well in the draft, you don't think players on offense wouldn't want to sign with the Texans?

As of right now you're correct.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Except players are going to play for the coach and one of the best organizations in sports. What do the Texans have to offer except money? When given choices, players aren't going to choose Texans because they're a poor organization from the top down
Depends on who the HC is and how well Caserio drafts over the next 3 years.

Say McDaniels comes in and Caserio has done well in the draft, you don't think players on offense wouldn't want to sign with the Texans?

As of right now you're correct.
I agree with Steel.

And it is all the more reason why the draft is important need to draft.

FA shouldn’t matter if you are hitting on the other early and middle rounds.
 

Double Barrel

Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Except players are going to play for the 🐐 coach and one of the best organizations in sports. What do the Texans have to offer except money? When given choices, players aren't going to choose Texans because they're a poor organization from the top down
Yep. Some fans seem detached from the reality that who owns the team and who the owner surrounds himself with matters.

Reputations matter, both good and bad.

Franchise history matters, both good and bad.

And when a team has the national perception of a clown show, it matters.

So the Texans will end up with players that have no choice through the draft and over-the-hill players through FA that are cash grabbing before they exit the league.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Yep. Some fans seem detached from the reality that who owns the team and who the owner surrounds himself with matters.

Reputations matter, both good and bad.

Franchise history matters, both good and bad.

And when a team has the national perception of a clown show, it matters.

So the Texans will end up with players that have no choice through the draft and over-the-hill players through FA that are cash grabbing before they exit the league.
Until they add premium talent through the draft, this is likely to be the case. This still doesn't mean they cant find starter level players like KGH or King on short term deals. In fact that's what I liked about what Caserio did last offseason by signing guys to 1-2 yr deals. The cash grab couldn't happen.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Until they add premium talent through the draft, this is likely to be the case. This still doesn't mean they cant find starter level players like KGH or King on short term deals. In fact that's what I liked about what Caserio did last offseason by signing guys to 1-2 yr deals. The cash grab couldn't happen.
Except King only started 4 games, and now he's on the bench.

KHG started all of 17 games the previous 5 years; he is at best JAG.

 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Except King only started 4 games, and now he's on the bench.

KHG started all of 17 games the previous 5 years; he is at best JAG.

I happen to think the core of KGH, Collins,Collins,Blacklock, Greenard, Tunsil, Heck and if he hangs around Reid are the solid players that can be added too with great players and more solid players to rebuild the team. That's 8 guys and I would add Cooks but I'm not sure he fits the timeline. If they happen to hit on Mills that would be huge. So that's possibly 10 guys to build around. Do you think that Caserio can find 4-5 star level players and 4-5 solid players in the next 2-3 drafts? It's certainly possible and that doesn't even include FA adds in 2-3 yrs

This can be done, is Caserio the guy to do the job? I surely hope so and you should hope so too, because Caserio ain't going anywhere.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I happen to think the core of KGH, Collins,Collins,Blacklock, Greenard, Tunsil, Heck and if he hangs around Reid are the solid players that can be added too with great players and more solid players to rebuild the team. That's 8 guys and I would add Cooks but I'm not sure he fits the timeline. If they happen to hit on Mills that would be huge. So that's possibly 10 guys to build around. Do you think that Caserio can find 4-5 star level players and 4-5 solid players in the next 2-3 drafts? It's certainly possible and that doesn't even include FA adds in 2-3 yrs

This can be done, is Caserio the guy to do the job? I surely hope so and you should hope so too, because Caserio ain't going anywhere.
The problem with that is I think you assume too much.
Let's be honest when we look at the Pats' drafting record the last 5 years.
It certainly leaves a lot more doubts and little certainty.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
The problem with that is I think you assume too much.
Let's be honest when we look at the Pats' drafting record the last 5 years.
It certainly leaves a lot more doubts and little certainty.
Let's see if he can handle the job he has. Caserio needs a boss/mentor. But, he definitely needs to report to someone that knows the league.
This is what I don’t get. It’s a constant conflicting story with Caserio.

Caserio gets the credit for 5 bad drafts in New England when we all know it’s Belicheck that is the decision maker. But it’s Caserio running the show. Yeah. Ok.

Then Caserio is treated as a novice when he has been working under Belicheck for the past 12 years as Director of Player Personnel and then another 3 as Director of Pro Personnel.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The problem with that is I think you assume too much.
Let's be honest when we look at the Pats' drafting record the last 5 years.
It certainly leaves a lot more doubts and little certainty.
You can have any problems you want.

I choose to be optimistic until I have a reason not too.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Where's the conflict? Two different posters with their own opinions.

Here's what I don't get. Why does any criticism of Caserio ruffle some posters feathers? What has Nick accomplished to earn such devotion?
Criticism is fair. I've been critical of Caserio's DJ move and most recently not cutting his azz for refusing to step up and hit a blitzing S in the mouth.

But I still say lets see what his vision looks like. Sorry but it's going to be 2-3 yrs before we see that vision. Buckle up for the ride.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Except players are going to play for the 🐐 coach and one of the best organizations in sports. What do the Texans have to offer except money? When given choices, players aren't going to choose Texans because they're a poor organization from the top down
The Houston Texans have become the organization of last resort.

The problem with that is I think you assume too much.
Let's be honest when we look at the Pats' drafting record the last 5 years.
It certainly leaves a lot more doubts and little certainty.
He wants it to be so, he wishes it would be so, he's gone all in, mind was made up, fell in love with File Clerk the hour he was announced as the Chief Admin Clerk. 100% committed before making the infamous hire of David Culley as HC. At this point he has no other choices. He has backed himself into a corner. He is blinded by the love. He's convinced that the process, culture and patterns of behavior in 2021 are all going to magically disappear in 2022 and TO INFINITY AND BEYOND! - Buzz Lightyear.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The Houston Texans have become the organization of last resort.


He wants it to be so, he wishes it would be so, he's gone all in, he fell in love with File Clerk the hour he was announced as the Chief Admin Clerk. 100% committed before making the infamous hire of David Culley as HC. At this point he has no other choices. He has backed himself into a corner. He is blinded by the love. He's convinced that the process, culture and patterns of behavior in 2021 are all going to magically disappear in 2022 and TO INFINITY AND BEYOND! - Buzz Lightyear.
Wrong, I believe in giving a guy a fair chance and by that I mean having a contender by 2024.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
I remember you saying this 6 years ago. Then you disappeared.
:thinking:
& for some reason you came back.
I took a knee on the NFL when the NFL took a knee on me. Your timeline and memory are just a bit off. I came back when the NFL came to it's senses when it remembered it was in the football business, not the political arena. Being the brilliant SOB that I am, I was right then and I am right now. Why are you still here? Nothing better to do?
 

CWTexansFan

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contributor's Club
I took a knee on the NFL when the NFL took a knee on me. Your timeline and memory are just a bit off. I came back when the NFL came to it's senses when it remembered it was in the football business, not the political arena. Being the brilliant SOB that I am, I was right then and I am right now. Why are you still here? Nothing better to do?
Yep, look
Attach0_20211120_175554.png
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So where any of the recent Texans teams contenders?
Nope,

The last time they had a contender in my mind was when Hoyer crapped the bed in the playoffs. The rest of BOB's teams were deeply flawed due to a lack of depth. Partly because RS/BOB were never on the same page and partly because BOB and staff couldn't develop young players. IMHO

The Derrick yrs were going to be a waste after his rookie deal was done and he started making 156 mil. So this rebuild really doesn't disappoint me. Because they weren't going to win a championship anyway. Dumb and selfish leaders dont win championships. Favre is the exception to this rule.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Nope,

The last time they had a contender in my mind was when Hoyer crapped the bed in the playoffs. The rest of BOB's teams were deeply flawed due to a lack of depth. Partly because RS/BOB were never on the same page and partly because BOB and staff couldn't develop young players. IMHO

The Derrick yrs were going to be a waste after his rookie deal was done and he started making 156 mil. So this rebuild really doesn't disappoint me. Because they weren't going to win a championship anyway. Dumb and selfish leaders dont win championships. Favre is the exception to this rule.
I was going to say 2011 pre-injury to Schaub
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
This is what I don’t get. It’s a constant conflicting story with Caserio.

Caserio gets the credit for 5 bad drafts in New England when we all know it’s Belicheck that is the decision maker. But it’s Caserio running the show. Yeah. Ok.

Then Caserio is treated as a novice when he has been working under Belicheck for the past 12 years as Director of Player Personnel and then another 3 as Director of Pro Personnel.
I had always been consistent.
I laid out the timeline for Caserio.
He was under Pioli and then Reese for the early part of his career when the Pats had more success in the draft.
When left to his own device (2013-2020), the Pats had much less success in the draft.

It's fair to assume that Caserio have more of a role since 2013, wouldn't you say?
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I took a knee on the NFL when the NFL took a knee on me. Your timeline and memory are just a bit off. I came back when the NFL came to it's senses when it remembered it was in the football business, not the political arena. Being the brilliant SOB that I am, I was right then and I am right now. Why are you still here? Nothing better to do?
NFL is more political today than ever.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said in a video last week that the league would "encourage all to speak out and peacefully protest," while adding that "I personally protest with you."


“I wish we had listened earlier, Kaep, to what you were kneeling about and what you were trying to bring attention to." Goodell said. "We had invited him in several times to have the conversation, to have the dialogue. I wish we had the benefit of that, we never did. We would have benefited from that, absolutely.”

 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Nope,

The last time they had a contender in my mind was when Hoyer crapped the bed in the playoffs. The rest of BOB's teams were deeply flawed due to a lack of depth. Partly because RS/BOB were never on the same page and partly because BOB and staff couldn't develop young players. IMHO

The Derrick yrs were going to be a waste after his rookie deal was done and he started making 156 mil. So this rebuild really doesn't disappoint me. Because they weren't going to win a championship anyway. Dumb and selfish leaders dont win championships. Favre is the exception to this rule.
I disagree.

The most recent time we were contenders was the year 51-7 happened. We should have won that game.

OB was badly out coached that game. They should have fired OB in the off-season and began the rebuild then.

It would be fair to blame Cal for not doing it. It would be fair to say Easterby could have influenced that too. It would be speculation, but would be fair to say.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I disagree.

The most recent time we were contenders was the year 51-7 happened. We should have won that game.

OB was badly out coached that game. They should have fired OB in the off-season and began the rebuild then.

It would be fair to blame Cal for not doing it. It would be fair to say Easterby could have influenced that too. It would be speculation, but would be fair to say.
I didn't consider them contenders. But I get why you did.

Cal is ultimately to blame for the BOB decision and the decision to give Derrick the contract he got. I dont think Easterby had anything to do with these decisions. But these decisions are why the Texans are where they're at today. That and RS decision to draft Derrick to begin with.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I took a knee on the NFL when the NFL took a knee on me. Your timeline and memory are just a bit off. I came back when the NFL came to it's senses when it remembered it was in the football business, not the political arena. Being the brilliant SOB that I am, I was right then and I am right now. Why are you still here? Nothing better to do?
Truth is you came back for two reasons:

1. Icak gone
2. You saw blood in the water that the Texans were going to go through some rough times.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Truth is you came back for two reasons:

1. Icak gone
2. You saw blood in the water that the Texans were going to go through some rough times.
Reason #1 was a very valid reason to findsomething else to do with your time.

So glad that guy left the MB.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Nope,

The last time they had a contender in my mind was when Hoyer crapped the bed in the playoffs. The rest of BOB's teams were deeply flawed due to a lack of depth. Partly because RS/BOB were never on the same page and partly because BOB and staff couldn't develop young players. IMHO

The Derrick yrs were going to be a waste after his rookie deal was done and he started making 156 mil. So this rebuild really doesn't disappoint me. Because they weren't going to win a championship anyway. Dumb and selfish leaders dont win championships. Favre is the exception to this rule.
You see how you fell in that trap? So a contender for Caserio is 10 win, but when they won 10 games, or 11, or 12, they weren't contenders. Just be consistent is all I ask. I'm going to say 10 wins is a contender because I like one gm and coaching staff, but they're not with another.
 


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