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Caserio Trades Mark Ingram

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I've already documented in the Mercilus thread the stats on players drafted on his watch as the Director of Player Personnel:
23 Pro Bowl Selections
11 First Team All Pro Selections
7 Second Team All Pro Selections
2 All Decade Team Selections
1 Defensive Rookie of the Year

And of course three Superb Owls. But the Patriot drafts sucked when he was in charge of them.
I forgot about that. They also don’t look at how many draft picks they didn’t have. They still won Super Bowls during that time…

During 2014-2018 the Patriots lost a first rounder and 4th due to deflate gate in 2016. Didn’t have a 3rd or 4th in 2018. Didn’t have a 1st, 2nd or 3rd in 2017. I am too lazy to look at any others.

Definitely more to the story about draft picks during 2014-2018.

But some people don’t want to look beyond the surface.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
I’m now just waiting for the local news story about you ripping your clothes off and running across a highway into the forest screaming about Caserio, then lighting yourself on fire.
This is getting thoroughly enjoyable.
You could just use the Ignore. Never took you for one of the Kool Aid Brigade, but there you are, so off you go.
 
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TexansThunder

Waterboy
Texans got fleeced. We basically paid the Saints $250k to take the team’s best RB.

Saints received a Christmas gift from the Texans.
 
The 2022 #224 draft pick has a value of 2 points. Ingram today is worth more than that even on this terrible team.

However, I wouldn’t say “fleeced”. They traded a lamp shade for a used toothbrush.

As someone mentioned up- thread, maybe the Texans were doing Ingram a solid. And that’s who they are…givers, never recipients.
Ingram Signed an Extension Before Trade to Saints

Ingram said he appreciated the Texans for giving him this opportunity after the Saints called and inquired about his availability.
"They said if this was any other team this wouldn't even be a discussion," Ingram said. "But out of respect for me and what I've done throughout my career and how I started [in New Orleans], they wanted to give me the option to make a decision and just let me sleep on it. And I went in and I told them, 'Coach [David] Culley, Nick [Caserio], I appreciate you guys for giving me the opportunity to play ball and believing in me.' I don't take that for granted."But to be able to have the opportunity to go back home where I started and to be able to help them fight for a championship, it's almost something that I couldn't pass up."
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Caserio was Director of Player Personnel for since 2008. 3 Super Bowls in that time.

Prior to that in 2002 he was a coaching assistant, then scout, then Director of Pro Personnel, then a wide receivers coach then finally promoted Director of Player Personnel.

He doesn’t get credit for Superbowls, or any success pretty much during that time, but you want to credit him with the draft for the last 10 years.

That doesn’t make sense.
You just said Caserio wasn't involved in the draft process, but now you change your tune?

Which is which before we dwell further into the matter
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Caserio was Director of Player Personnel for since 2008. 3 Super Bowls in that time.

Prior to that in 2002 he was a coaching assistant, then scout, then Director of Pro Personnel, then a wide receivers coach then finally promoted Director of Player Personnel.

He doesn’t get credit for Superbowls, or any success pretty much during that time, but you want to credit him with the draft for the last 10 years.

That doesn’t make sense.
Now, Floyd Reese, a prior GM for the Oilers, was senior football advisor to Belichik in 2009-2012.


Given how "the lowly guys in the scouting department have zero say" between Feb-April, why would you give credit to Caserio during that time?

Did you know for real that Caserio was responsible for those drafts?
Please give me a link.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
OB's overall demeanor/dismantling of the team and Watson using a bad season as a bailing point to cover for his legal issues catching up with him have had a significantly higher impact on Houston being a desirable place to play than Caserio cutting an underperforming/overpaid aging LB and trading away an old RB who had been here less than half a season, even if both were considered good locker room guys.
What post are you meaning to reply to because the one you quoted doesn’t have anything to do with what you wrote.

I didn’t mention or assign blame to anyone. You did that. I don’t pay close enough attention to know who is doing what wrong.

What I said was that maybe Ingram asked out and that could be a concern if a guy was brought in mainly to be in a leadership type role asked out. I don’t know if he did or didn’t. I was just speculating based on the current state of things.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
What post are you meaning to reply to because the one you quoted doesn’t have anything to do with what you wrote.

I didn’t mention or assign blame to anyone. You did that. I don’t pay close enough attention to know who is doing what wrong.

What I said was that maybe Ingram asked out and that could be a concern if a guy was brought in mainly to be in a leadership type role asked out. I don’t know if he did or didn’t. I was just speculating based on the current state of things.
Didn't mean for my post to come off as a rebuttal to what you said. Was just saying that if this team/organization is getting a rep as a place not to be, the situation you speculated on would seem minor compared to how OB and Watson may have made this is place not to be. No harm intended.

It is nice though to see the story unfolding about how they did a solid with Ingram.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
You just said Caserio wasn't involved in the draft process, but now you change your tune?

Which is which before we dwell further into the matter
Your whole argument about Caserio was that the Patriots draft sucked for the past few years and he was a cause for it. You argue that but miss the Super bowls won. I posed the question to you that the articles that I provided never said he was involved in the draft so that you would do some research. You followed my suggestion and did.

I provided you with a new argument because I am bored with the one you are using.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Your whole argument about Caserio was that the Patriots draft sucked for the past few years and he was a cause for it. You argue that but miss the Super bowls won. I posed the question to you that the articles that I provided never said he was involved in the draft so that you would do some research. You followed my suggestion and did.

I provided you with a new argument because I am bored with the one you are using.
The people who followed the Patriots, including the local newspapers said the recent drafts were bad.
Kraft himself said the recent drafts were not good.
Why do you put it on me?
I'm just a messenger.
 

Toro Bravo

Waterboy
When I first heard of the compensation we received for Ingram, my head exploded. Then I read Ingram's response where the organization did him a solid and it was his choice, and my blood pressure went down. Maybe NC is building a culture we can be proud of and I will actually watch the next game - at least until it gets out of hand.
 
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beerlover

Hall of Fame
I’ve always been impressed with the Patriots ability to work the draft positioning portion, just not always the picks. Last draft without Caserio they stood pat @ #15 and got their next goat, who we’ll witness in the flesh Sunday (vs Chargers) without paying a king’s ransom. Very smart. So my guess is it’s always been Belichick with Caserio being the executioner :choke:
 
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OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Texian and 76Texan…..you’re both arguing tooth and nail over how absolutely right the two of you are and how wrong everyone else on this site appears to be.

So let’s go ahead and say, we (all) suddenly agree that the both of you right…..what’s the end game? Cal sitting in his office following Texans Talk and decides to haul Caserio’s arse into his office and tell him, you’re fired!!! I found Texian and 76Texan…..they’ll be running the Texans from here on out!!! Maybe Cal hires the both of you as mentors for Caserio.

Honestly, no matter who views every post on this thread…..in the end, we’ll all still be avid poster(s) with an opinion and nothing else.

This site is provided to us common folk to remotely sit around and talk about the team(s) we follow versus sitting around a table, enjoying drinks and food, while talking about our favorite teams. I’ve always preferred the face to face talks while enjoying an inexpensive breakfast that has free refills. I’m seriously looking forward to this opportunity one of these days.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
….as the Texans should be at this stage of the rebuild effort. I just hope there’s a few more moves before the deadline.
Been helpful if Texans had bye week instead of playing Rams. Often times sitting players involved in trade discussions to avoid possible injuries.

I could be wrong, usually am, but don’t see any big moves from Caserio until he has more leverage, he can’t just keep swapping late round picks for starters. Not best time to trade Watson either, given legal issues, guaranteed money and position of weakness.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Texian and 76Texan…..you’re both arguing tooth and nail over how absolutely right the two of you are and how wrong everyone else on this site appears to be.

So let’s go ahead and say, we (all) suddenly agree that the both of you right…..what’s the end game? Cal sitting in his office following Texans Talk and decides to haul Caserio’s arse into his office and tell him, you’re fired!!! I found Texian and 76Texan…..they’ll be running the Texans from here on out!!! Maybe Cal hires the both of you as mentors for Caserio.

Honestly, no matter who views every post on this thread…..in the end, we’ll all still be avid poster(s) with an opinion and nothing else.

This site is provided to us common folk to remotely sit around and talk about the team(s) we follow versus sitting around a table, enjoying drinks and food, while talking about our favorite teams. I’ve always preferred the face to face talks while enjoying an inexpensive breakfast that has free refills. I’m seriously looking forward to this opportunity one of these days.
Well, I simply prefer not to have misinformation.

Or sometimes there are two, three sides to a story.

Also, like I have said before, I often have disagreement with one of my brother-in-law, but we're still good drinking buddies; we continue to watch sports together; the two couples still travel together.

There's no need to make a big deal out of anything.
But misinformation is never good for anybody.
:texflag:
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
Well, I simply prefer not to have misinformation.

Or sometimes there are two, three sides to a story.

Also, like I have said before, I often have disagreement with one of my brother-in-law, but we're still good drinking buddies; we continue to watch sports together; the two couples still travel together.

There's no need to make a big deal out of anything.
But misinformation is never good for anybody.
:texflag:
LOL that you are all "let's hug it out". You like to be right. And you lack the ability to see any perspective other than your own. The only resolution you accept is for everyone to acquiesce to your position. You simply like to argue and will move the goalposts to keep the argument going.

I believe you to be an extremely intelligent person and appreciate the research that you do, even if it is only in support of your position. But you are also a contrarian by nature who MUST be right, gets bogged down in minutia and can't move on, which makes it very difficult to interact with you because all you want is for people to say "Yes 76 Texan, you are right and I am wrong".

I won't put you on ignore because I do believe you can bring some good information, but I'm no longer going to respond and get sucked into the thing that I come here to get away from.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
Didn't mean for my post to come off as a rebuttal to what you said. Was just saying that if this team/organization is getting a rep as a place not to be, the situation you speculated on would seem minor compared to how OB and Watson may have made this is place not to be. No harm intended.

It is nice though to see the story unfolding about how they did a solid with Ingram.
Gotcha. Fair enough.

I was just saying that may have been an effect, not necessarily a cause.
But yeah, if they approached him and not the other way around that is actually a good thing as far as how they are perceived by players.

Same with Whitney.
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
Do we even know yet what we got in the trade? This thread got bogged down so far in Caserio opinions it seems to have ignored the intended subject.

Trading Ingram feels inconsequential to me. We're going no where with or without him.
 

banned1976

sleeper mode
I'm over it. It was just disappointing because for me Ingram was a pleasant surprise. Conversely, I expected Lindsay to breathe a breath of fresh air into a pretty terrible running back group from last year and he's done close to nothing.

But, who cares? With or without Ingram the Texans suck.
 
If you are going to trade your best RB for nothing because he “deserves better” how about doing the same for your best, soon-to-be active qb - Taylor? If anyone deserves it is him plus I could actually see a few teams (Steelers, Carolina, Philly and Denver) offering something reasonable in return for him.

The Texans need to figure out who they want to be and if that is tank mode - really act like it.
 

cuppacoffee

Resident Grouch
If you are going to trade your best RB for nothing because he “deserves better” how about doing the same for your best, soon-to-be active qb - Taylor? If anyone deserves it is him plus I could actually see a few teams (Steelers, Carolina, Philly and Denver) offering something reasonable in return for him.

The Texans need to figure out who they want to be and if that is tank mode - really act like it.
i

If anyone inquired I feel certain that the Texans would listen. The NFL world knows that the Texans are having a fire sale.

:coffee:
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
No one has a clue how much authority or power Caserio had with the Pats and its not like Belichek would tell anyone anyway.
This is not difficult. It's safe to say the Belichick has written a player personnel operations manual. There are instructions and a checklist on how to use and fill out forms contained in the player personnel manual. Along with written standards on how to "Do Your Job" as an executive, evaluator and a scout.

During the season, when Caserio was the Director of Player Personnel the Director of Pro Personnel and the Director of College Personnel would report directly to Caserio. Also during the season Caserio was responsible for overseeing the list of available FAs. Along with preparing a list of available FA for the next season.

As Director of Player Personnel Caserio was also responsible for scouts and the college scouting department and overseeing the preparation of a list of the top 200 - 300 college players who would be available in the upcoming draft. All done in accordance by Belichick's instructions of how to operate the player personnel operation manual. To include that scouting reports are filled out to Belichick's satisfaction and filed and arrange to Belichick's specifications.

After the season Belichick and a handful of coaches and personnel directors take all the information that has been compiled during the season and begin to prepare for free agency and the draft. Now if this isn't exactly how it is done, it is not very far from it. During Caserio's time as Director of Player Personnel is has been reported that the Patriots accumulation of players thru FA and the draft had been marginal to mediocre at best. This has also been confirmed by the owner himself.
 
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sandman

Brexit Advisor
This is not difficult. It's safe to say the Belichick has written a player personnel operations manual. There are instructions and a checklist on how to use and fill out forms contained in the player personnel manual. Along with written standards on how to "Do Your Job" as an executive, evaluator and a scout.

During the season, when Caserio was the Director of Player Personnel the Director of Pro Personnel and the Director of College Personnel would report directly to Caserio. Also during the season Caserio was responsible for overseeing the list of available FAs. Along with preparing a list of available FA for the next season.

As Director of Player Personnel Caserio was also responsible for scouts and the college scouting department and overseeing the preparation of a list of the top 200 - 300 college players who would be available in the upcoming draft. All done in accordance by Belichick's instructions of how to operate the player personnel operation manual. To include that scouting reports are filled out to Belichick's satisfaction and filed and arrange to Belichick's specifications.

After the season Belichick and a handful of coaches and personnel directors take all the information that has been compiled during the season and begin to prepare for free agency and the draft. Now if this isn't exactly how it is done, it is not very far from it. During Caserio's time as Director of Player Personnel is has been reported that the Patriots accumulation of players thru FA and the draft had been marginal to mediocre at best. This has also been confirmed by the owner himself.
Except that he didn't. What Kraft said was "for the last few years". Caserio was the Director of Player Personnel for 13 years, during which the team went to 5 Super Bowls.

But you keep doing you. The odds are we look back on your Caserio posts the same way we do your Bortles posts.
 

amazing80

Fire Easterby
Except that he didn't. What Kraft said was "for the last few years". Caserio was the Director of Player Personnel for 13 years, during which the team went to 5 Super Bowls.

But you keep doing you. The odds are we look back on your Caserio posts the same way we do your Bortles posts.
LMAO
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Except that he didn't. What Kraft said was "for the last few years". Caserio was the Director of Player Personnel for 13 years, during which the team went to 5 Super Bowls.

But you keep doing you. The odds are we look back on your Caserio posts the same way we do your Bortles posts.
You know every time I see your mention of Blake Bortles I know I won because you don't have anything else. You've been reduced to a discussion from 7 years ago in order to try and have some relevance. And it is kind of juvenile.. Looking back the Texans would've been so much better off had they drafted Bortles:

In 2015 they wouldn't of had to go thru the Hoyer and Mallett carousel while Bortles had more TD passes.

In 2016 you wouldn't of had to go through that awful Osweiler fiasco, saved tons of money and draft picks too while BB had 35 TDs.

In 2017 Bortles may have been able to get the Texans to the AFC Championship game like he did the Jags. A place the Texans are not familiar. Also the Texans would not have drafted a sexual pervert as the face of the franchise.

Not to mention that Bortles 103 TDs were much more productive than Clowney's 32 sacks.

If you and the Texans had listened to me 7 years ago, you know I could have saved you 6 years of heart ache with Bill O'Brien. You were such a cheerleader. I said at the time OB would fail like the 8 Belichick assistants who went before him. Who knew my clairvoyance would've seen that Blake Bortles would've been a better option than Bill O'Brien.

When all is said and done Nick Caserio is going to be a bigger FUBAR than Bill O''Brien was. Nick Caserio is going to be a bigger nightmare than Scott Pioli was in Kansas City.

I think I will favorite this post and every time you want to have a 7 year old Bortles discussion I can copy and paste this for you again. :)
 
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Texian

Hall of Fame
& Manziel posts LMFAO...But you know he played QB in HS in the 60's right?
And stayed at a HIE.
Or as they often say, the proof is in the pudding.......

The reason Tom Brady left the Patriots was because the talent level in New England had been seriously eroded to a point they could not remain competitive. Kraft had to spend $159MM in FA this year to restock a bare cupboard in order to get back to a point where the Patriots could be competitive again. Tom Brady knew he could go to a lot of other teams where the talent was at a level where he could remain competitive and have a chance to win, so he did. Tom Brady's departure from the Patriots clearly illustrates just how big the void in talent was in New England. You don't need to stay in HIE to understand why this very basic elementary events transpired.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Or as they often say, the proof is in the pudding.......

The reason Tom Brady left the Patriots was because the talent level in New England had been seriously eroded to a point they could not remain competitive. Kraft had to spend over $100MM in FA this year to restock a bare cupboard in order to get back to a point where the Patriots could be competitive again. Tom Brady knew he could go to a lot of other teams where the talent was at a level where he could remain competitive and have a chance to win, so he did. Tom Brady's departure from the Patriots clearly illustrates just how big the void in talent was in New England. You don't need to stay in HIE to understand why this very basic elementary event transpired.
Or Belichick has found his QB and is restocking his team.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Except you're putting the cart before horse. Belichick/Kraft restocked the team before they drafted their QB.
They aren't through restocking the team.

I think they would've made the playoffs last yr with Jones at QB. I also think they will make the playoffs this yr.
 


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