giovanni338
Practice Squad
Dont make excuses for carr.Hes not the qb that we need.Everyone is making him out to be better then he really is.Come on.4 years and he still sucks...We need a whole new team and coach..the wonger need food said:
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Carr's latest excuses?
- Thread starter the wonger need food
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the wonger need food
All Pro
Brando said:
Facts are facts my friend. I apologize for not living in your fantasy world where David Carr and his offense is at least respectable. The fact is that this is one of the worst offenses in the modern history of the NFL and Carr is its leader by default.
edo783
Hall of Fame
Brando said:I am just saying I am tired of your negativity.
Go Texans!
Me to. That's why he is on my ignor list. One of the best things I have done. I like folks that have opinions and don't just dog the team. If they don't like the team that badly they should just hike their sorry butts over to some other team who is winning. Then they can be happy. I am SURE the reply will be "I am a good fan". Frankly, I doubt this type of poster really is a fan of the team. I suspect they are more a fan of hate and discontent. Do we have issues.....you bet, big time, but NOTHING is ever ALL wrong like some would have you believe. These types just like to stew in their own dirty diaphers and try to get everyone else smelling the same stuff they are.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
I put up some comments on every play early on here and spent a good 2 - 3 hours on it. I took time to watch everything in slow motion and made sure to point out that I was just commenting on the action on the field and stated clearly I wasn’t "grading tape". The reason I pulled it was because within 3 minutes there were 3 posters tearing the comments apart. There was no way any of those guys took the time to look at the tape and made comments about how wrong I was. If someone is going to take the time to break down each snap then people should be good enough to go look and see what they are talking about before they comment on it.Runner said:
On my stuff at hpf I just felt that the person went out of his way to pick on one player and I had a hard time with that since I thought it was unfair.
Texan Gal 312
Waterboy
For all of you who think it is all Carr's fault or think he can not succeed, I have two words -Drew Brees - He was absolutely being toasted in San Diego, probably much worse than Carr is here. They even drafted a new quarterback, then Drew goes to the Pro Bowl. Somebody tell me, what happened ? Did he suddenly "get it"? Did he from one year to the next learn to read defenses ? Did they bring in a new offensive coordinator ?
I would say they somehow got better talent around him. They also had one major stroke of genius named Antonio Gates. Just think if they would have used the Rivers pick on another playmaker. I would mention LT but he was there when Brees was being toasted.
I would say they somehow got better talent around him. They also had one major stroke of genius named Antonio Gates. Just think if they would have used the Rivers pick on another playmaker. I would mention LT but he was there when Brees was being toasted.
Vinny said:
Actually, I didn't see your stuff on HPF - I didn't know these guys were talking about a specific post at all, if that's what they were talking about. I was speaking more in general that none of us, including me, really, really know what is going on down on the field. Granted studying the replays gives a person a leg up, because there is too much to see all at once, and I've been known to look at plays 2-3 times also. It helps to take a serious look at replays. I think we all just need to calm down at times and realize that we might be wrong - this is a discussion board after all. I like to treat this board like I'm hanging out with the guys at the bar talking football. It gets so vituperative here sometimes that if I was in that bar I'd be changing tables or leaving.
This isn't directed at any one person; just a general comment.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
the wonger need food said:
What is a wonger? What do they eat? Please feed it.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Brando said:No I have a better plan... BAN HIM! J/K I can dream right?I'll give in and put him on ignore like edo says he is probably not even a fan. I know he used to be a Colt fan and joined the same week as we played the Colts. So I say he is a Colt troll and I will put him on ignore.
Some posters can really get under the skin, but this MB would sure be boring if we all agreed with each other.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Texan Gal 312 said:
I agree with you except for two undeniable things:
- Brees did not carry 1st pick money
- Competition is a tested idea that works
Kaiser Toro said:
I'd change that to "A fair, real competition is a tested idea that works". I'm not sure our staff could do that.
Remember that training camp "competition" for left tackle when the coaches gave the job to Riley on the second day? Knowing what we fans know now, what do you think the players thought of that switch? They had to recognize that Riley didn't have the goods, and still they tell Carr that this guy has got his back. David must have wondered what was going on, to say nothing of the other players. Do you think they wondered about their futures if coaches would replace players not based on performance? It's not like Wand is anything but a solid citizen on or off the field. I've never read about any off field problems, unless I missed them.
How about Hollings? We released players that were competing for a roster spot with him. Was that a fair competition? I don't see him ever producing for this team.
Bradford as #2 receiver? This isn't as cut and dried, but at some point don't you have to sit him to show that performance matters? Gafney and Armstrong have been competing for more minutes for a long time.
Competition is good, as long as it's competition in more than name only - otherwise coaches risk losing the players.
J-Man
Waterboy
Vinny said:
Let me clarify a bit...I probably should have noted this in the original post...There are a very few people who do spend a large amount of time and come up with some quality insights based on game film. I agree entirely that most people don't actually take the time to study things in order to make good assumptions, which was one of the reasons for the original post.
The biggest things that we can pull from TV tape is an individual players technique. Does an OL get beat when he engages, was the exchange from C to QB clean? Those are the best questions you can answer. That being said one of the few things you can make some educated guesses on are the OL and RB play and the defensive front 7. It's very tough to get a good feel for the periphery of the field. I think that most of us realize that and tend to qualify our opinons to take that into account.
The reason that I posted originally was that I guess I get a bit miffed when you continually see posts that say things like "this guys is horrible...no future in the league" when the fact is that we really don't know. I said earlier that I do like Carr and hope he does well, but if we can build around him and he can't progress he needs to move on. To date we have not been successful at putting the team together around him.
the wonger need food
All Pro
Runner said:
Great points. We've seen it over and over again with this organization. They put players on the field/roster based on where they were drafted or how much they are paid.
Bradford and Riley were the two big free agent signings that were supposed to address 2 huge needs for this team. Now neither is starting.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
the wonger need food said:
Really?--have any examples and substantiation for that?
League minimum Riley starting over 3rd round Wand--nope that doesn't fit.
League minimum Riley taking playing time from $25 mil Wade--nope that doesn't fit.
4th rounder DD taking the starting job from FA acquisition Mack--nope that doesn't fit.
2nd rounder Hollings and 3rd rounder Morency taking all those snaps away from 4th rounder DD (oops that hasn't happened)--nope that doesn't fit.
6th rounder Faggins starting over 1st rounder Buchanon--nope that doesn't fit.
6th rounder Brown starting over 4th rounder Earl--nope that doesn't fit.
Where exactly are all these players who are out on the field because of where they were drafted or the amount of money they are making vs. that they are best at their position?
the wonger need food
All Pro
infantrycak said:
Riley fits perfectly. He was brought in as one of the big free agent signings and was put into the starting job almost immediately.
Hollings fits perfectly. They spent a 2nd round draft pick on the guy. He has no business being on this or any other roster.
Brown is starting over Earl because Earl was hurt during camp. These are both 2nd day guys so their situation is not really applicable.
Faggins is starting over Buchanon because Buchanon showed the entire world what a coward he was in week 2. If that wasn't caught on tape he might still be starting.
Davis over Mack was a no-brainer after Mack was injured.
Basically, the coaching staff has to be beaten over the head before making any changes. Bradford and Riley are perfect examples of this.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
the wonger need food said:
That doesn't prove anything to do with money and draft picks being the motivation for the Texans personnel decisions. In fact, Bradford and Riley are counter examples of your assertion--Bradford is one they have inexplicably held on to, but he is not a draft pick or a big money guy and he has cut into the playing time of 33rd overall Gaffney and now 4th rounder Mathis. That example goes completely against you. Riley is a league minimum guy (the only thing big about his signing was his belly) so there is no way he can be proof of money or draft picks being the motivating factor especially given that they have tried to bench a 3rd rounder in favor of him and a $25 mil player. If anything Riley is even a horrible example of the coaches having to be beaten over the head before making changes--as you said he was almost handed the starting job without proof--that would be flighty decision making not hard headed. Even Hollings isn't a good example--if the coaches were trying to justify his pick, they would have him getting some carries spelling DD.
Where is there a single example of a player getting playing time because of their draft position or contract (your original assertion) rather than being better than the next guy on the depth chart?
the wonger need food
All Pro
infantrycak said:
I should have included their "profile" or "status" or whatever you want to call it. Just wasn't sure how to word it. My point was that PR seems to override winning...
1) Riley starting immediately because he was signed to solve the LT problems.
2) Bradford was signed to solve the #2 receiver problem and started the first 6 games.
3) Hollings on the roster.
4) Maybe Greenwood. It's hard to say if there is someone better than him on the roster, but he hasn't done a whole lot given how much money he makes.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
the wonger need food said:
I just don't see where you get the PR out of this. First, it is revising history to say Riley was brought here to be the LT even. That wasn't the announcement when he was signed. He was viewed as an upgrade on Marcus Spears as a veteran backup for the tackles. Somewhere along the way Wand did something that got him ditched.
How can you even begin to argue Bradford was signed to solve the #2 WR position--he was the #2 WR that was the problem they were trying to upgrade. Did they fail to upgrade him?--absolutely, but it wasn't like there was PR that signing Bradford was going to solve the problem of having Bradford.
PR hype on Hollings?--not in at least two years. Don't know who you think would have contributed instead for the roster spot, but I really don't see who was cut that would have gotten any playing time so what does it matter?
Don't get me wrong--I don't like the decisions made on Bradford or Riley or letting Glenn go for example--I just don't see where they are PR related so much as just plain poor judgment (Bradford) or punishment for something we don't know about (pure conjecture--Wand).
mean mark8
Waterboy
Seems to me you guys have gotten a little off topic here. Isn't this thread about Carr not the coaching staff's inability to evaluate talent at other positions for keeping them on the roster let alone playing time?
MorKnolle
All Pro
HoneymoonIsOver said:
David's pocket presence is not great but it is getting better, and this is like the third game in four years that pass protection has been decent.
David is as tough and competitive as any QB in the league.
He does sometimes lock onto a receiver but when the OC only gives you two potential receivers on any given play it's hard not to, especially when one is Bradford who runs terrible routes and won't catch an open pass anyways.
He threw the ball away several times last game, hence his 50% completions.
He can read coverages when he has time, the main problem is the poor routes that OC constructs for him to throw to.
He is not allowed to audible to anything but a run.
David shows leadership by example and his toughness. Not many other QBs will get sacked as many times as him and still run and dive head-first into oncoming LBs to pick up a first down.
He can throw short balls over the middle, the OC rarely has routes for that other than a dump down to Davis, which I've never seen him deliver a bad throw on.
He does give pretty good play action fakes, I've seen several times where he's picked up a clutch first down running himself after tricking the entire defense with a play action fake.
The OC doesn't put him in a position to use TEs, they have blocking TEs that do nothing but block and don't run routes.
David plays like a man with a rookie of an OC.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
David may have no OLine, no WR's and an awful coaching staff, but what was he doing running out of bounds with three minutes left in the game? I would think that he would understand time, score and situation for the money we are spending on him.
These are the type of things that make me and I am sure his cohorts scratch their head.
These are the type of things that make me and I am sure his cohorts scratch their head.
Do you understand the time, score, & situation? The games was tied, it wasn't a gimme FG, and the Texans might have needed as much time on the clock as possible if Brown had missed the FG and the Browns had kicked one. Are you going to ride Joe Pendry's case for calling a pass on the following down? Was a Davis left tackle run in order?Kaiser Toro said:
Man, you guys are reaching for stuff this week.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Lucky said:
We were at the 22 yard line and it would have been third and five. So you would actually play the clock that way? Forget Carr for a second and let me know if the time, score and situation were the same and QB X was running for the sideline you would want him to go out of bounds?
Answer the question. Was Pendry wrong for throwing on third down? Were the Texans attempting to run clock with 3 minutes left? No, they were trying to get a first down or a TD. I heard what the commentator said, as well. He's a buffoon. You can't run clock with 3 minutes left in a tied game.
The Browns still had the 2 minute warning & 2 timeouts. Plenty of time to score a TD, which they almost did. The Texans would have needed every second left on that clock. Get your head in the game.
The Browns still had the 2 minute warning & 2 timeouts. Plenty of time to score a TD, which they almost did. The Texans would have needed every second left on that clock. Get your head in the game.
GP
Go Texans!
Originally Posted by the wonger need food
My point was that PR seems to override winning...
1) Riley starting immediately because he was signed to solve the LT problems.
2) Bradford was signed to solve the #2 receiver problem and started the first 6 games.
3) Hollings on the roster.
-----------------------------------
"...I just don't see where you get the PR out of this..." -- infantrycak
-----------------------------------
Check the front page of this website, specifically the article about Phillip Buchanon and how great he's turning out to be.
If that isn't a slice of Homer pie...I don't know what is.
Wasn't there any Texans reading books to kids at libraries this week, or something else to run as a story other than how much of turn around Buchanon is beginning to make?
Wonger's right on this one. Too much PR, and not enough truth serum.
My point was that PR seems to override winning...
1) Riley starting immediately because he was signed to solve the LT problems.
2) Bradford was signed to solve the #2 receiver problem and started the first 6 games.
3) Hollings on the roster.
-----------------------------------
"...I just don't see where you get the PR out of this..." -- infantrycak
-----------------------------------
Check the front page of this website, specifically the article about Phillip Buchanon and how great he's turning out to be.
If that isn't a slice of Homer pie...I don't know what is.
Wasn't there any Texans reading books to kids at libraries this week, or something else to run as a story other than how much of turn around Buchanon is beginning to make?
Wonger's right on this one. Too much PR, and not enough truth serum.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Lucky said:
I was at the game so I cannot comment about the commentator.
Not sure why I need to answer your question, but will give it a try. Since DC ran out of bounds it put the Texans in a passing situation. If DC stays in bounds then we would run the ball again on 3rd and 5 taking us to the two minute warning.
Once again DC put us in a tight spot because of HIS decison to go out of bounds.
What would make you think that we have the luxury to pick spots for our offense to succeed? Has this team shown the ability to run a 1 minute offense.
Lucky said:
Can we have less rude moderators please?
Kaiser. I see your point.
A slide at that point seems like a smart thing to do, especially if the play wasn't going anywhere anyway. Stopping the clock, especially when you have all your time outs left, seems a bit odd when you're tied and driving from your opponent's 22 with just under three minutes left. A Carr slide would have kept the clock running and would likely have coaxed time out #2 out of Crennel. I don't think they were necessarily playing for the FG at that point and if you asked Capers, I'm sure he would have preferred a first down and a few more plays to suck away all their TO's before either a shorter FG or a TD.
OK, that was weak. You're saying you don't want the Texans trying for a TD or a completion inside the 5? Dom, is that you?Kaiser Toro said:
Jerome Mathis has shown the ability to return a kickoff. Come on, this is silly. I'm sure you'll have much better rips on Carr next week.Kaiser Toro said:
a slide was the right thing for Carr to do in that play. Would it have eaten all of the clock up, no. But it would have given the Browns even less time. A pass play on the next play was the right thing to call for a first down attempt. But that doesn't negate the dumbness of Carr running out of bounds and stopping the clock. Just another in the list of dumb things Carr does that makes you wonder how in the heck he is not only a 1st round pick but has been playing for over 3 seasons now, IMHO.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Lucky said:
I really do not understand your first statement. I answered your question after you did not bother to answer my first one, which is no big deal. But to call my position weak is asinine at best.
As far as Jerome goes I think that the Browns would have figured it out not to kick to him. I do appreciate your unbridled enthusiasm for Mathis as nonsensical it may make your judgement.
As Billy Bats says to Joey D in Good Fellas, "now go get your ******* shine box!"
Why didn't they figure that out earlier? You're giving a coaching staff that lost to the Texans a lot of credit here.Kaiser Toro said:
OK, try this on. Carr slides for probably a one yard loss (he's killed for giving up a sack). The Browns let the clock run down to 2:15ish (why not, the score is tied and they have 2 time outs). Pendry inexplicably still calls for the pass on 3rd down (what an *****). Kris Brown duffs again. The Browns have the ball at the 30 with 2 time outs.
Same plays happen on the following drive. Except let's say there's 5 seconds on the 4th and forever. P-Buch mistimes his leap & Bryant scores the winning TD. Here's what the CBA (Carr Bashing Association) has to say on the Texans board.
"Carr's an ***** for taking that sack! He should have thrown the ball away, he wasted precious seconds in the game! Cut him now!"
Heads you win, tails Carr loses. Again.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Lucky said:
Emotions can be an obstruction to moments of clarity. Go back and read this dialogue and see what you have written. You are truly an enigma wrapped in a moderating riddle.
Dude, I'm just a member like you. When someone posts something naughty, I yank it. Not much too it. I'm just having a good time. Sortof.Kaiser Toro said:
I really think wonger needs to form the CBA and hand out titles. I mean if you guys can take the time to rip someone after what may quite possibly be the only win of the season, there's some hatin' going on. Embrace the hate, form the CBA.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Lucky said:
Not a hater, just someone who expects results. If we were 5-2 right now and we lost that game we would be talkng about that type of mental lapse. It boggles my mind how many who have a down right allegiance to Carr ask for tangible plays to discuss his performance rather than spout hyperbole. I call out a situation that Carr addressed and did not agree with his decision. The best that you can come back with is pushback in the form of deflecting the question and a crafting of your own association and other half baked innuendos. Tell tell signs of being in over your head.
Are you planning on analyzing the guys every move in the game? Did this one play trump everything that went on during the game? From here, it looks like a fixation.Kaiser Toro said:
I gave you a scenario that showed the non-slide was not an absolute blunder. You didn't care for my explanation because it didn't fit your bashing, so sorry. You made a poor argument on a trivial point. After a big, big win. That's how I see it.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
gpshafer_1976 said:
Step into Wonger's shoes there big boy. He declined to because his points on Riley and Bradford made no sense. Care to have a go at explaining how money and draft pick choices (the issue you chose to quote on) have made a difference on starter selection?
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Lucky said:
Nerp. Thank you for the thoughts and may the forces of evil be confused upon your path to the next Texans game.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Kaiser Toro said:
Well aside from our intent to be rude moderators, here is more what happened:
The play you are talking about is 2nd and 5. Maybe he should have thrown it away, but how did that effect the game? The Browns were on the roll out all day long, are you really saying 1 yard, plus or minus made the difference on the day? It was not counted as a sack. 3rd & 5 Carr took his shot--so what are you saying was wrong? Are we really down to time management and pessimism to the level where we want our QB running out the clock (where have I heard this described as playing not to lose) rather than trying to get a game winning lead? Hmmm.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
infantrycak said:
What I was saying, but was thrown off by a message board filibuster, is that Carr went out of bounds on 2nd and 5 when he should have stayed in bounds. This was a mental mistake that I thought most would agree needs to be addressed.
not to speak for Kaiser, but what Carr did wrong is run out of bounds for no gain and stopping the clock. He should have slid or went down INBOUNDS and let the clock continue to run. Which could have meant that instead of the Browns getting the ball with 2:38 left in the game they could have easily gotten it with only 2:00 left instead. Given that the Browns last play was with 50 seconds left, I think that Carr running out of bounds was a big mistake. It meant that 45 seconds of the game could have been ran off the clock.
and as you so astutely pointed out the very next play Armstrong was LITERALLY mugged but didn't get the call. How THAT happened is beyond me with todays NFL rules regarding touching the WR after the 5 yard mark, but that is the breaks of the game. So I don't fault Pendry for calling a pass play that should have resulted in us getting at least a first down, with the proper officiating call being made there.
but hey, hindsight is always 20/20 right.
and as you so astutely pointed out the very next play Armstrong was LITERALLY mugged but didn't get the call. How THAT happened is beyond me with todays NFL rules regarding touching the WR after the 5 yard mark, but that is the breaks of the game. So I don't fault Pendry for calling a pass play that should have resulted in us getting at least a first down, with the proper officiating call being made there.
but hey, hindsight is always 20/20 right.
gr8, do you remember that the Browns ran off the :45 to the 2:00 warning themselves with a couple of running plays?thegr8fan said:
Cleveland Browns at 2:45, (1st play from scrimmage 2:38)
1-10-CLV 27 (2:38) 31-W.Green right end to CLV 33 for 6 yards (51-D.Polk).
2-4-CLV 33 (2:05) 31-W.Green left guard to CLV 40 for 7 yards (30-J.Simmons). R15
Two-Minute Warning
You know what I'm thinking? That Crennel wanted to run all the clock off so that the Texans wouldn't get another shot. He basically wasted that precious :45 seconds that you think Carr blundered. So in reality (where the Texans actually win the game), it wasn't a "big mistake". Or a mistake at all. It's a non-issue, except for those who want to overanalyze David Carr's every movement. Them's the facts.
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