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Bush to Texans... Young to Titans
- Thread starter Hookem Horns
- Start date
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
texan279 said:
We've been around, the numbers have just grown due to different motives.
The Dream
All Pro
Please don't come at me with the old "hater" label, I'm not hating I'm just giving an honest opinion, I've been having my doubts about Carr as a NFL QB for a while now, even before the VY talk I didn't think we should bring him back for 8 mil.
Oh and I'd take Vick over Plummer anyday of the week....you can make an argument with Brees though.
texan279
Hall of Fame
Kaiser Toro said:
I know some of you have been here, the posters who have been here awhile, but it seems since the day after the Rose Bowl they have come out in masses. And I am not complaining, this is a MB and everyone has a right to have their opinion and express it here, which is why I come here, for the discussion. But SOME of the new Carr haters here can only validate their point with "Carr sucks, Young will be a better QB".
Tulip
Veteran
texan279 said:
I'm not a Carr hater. I just was never high on him from the beginning, and now Capers may have ruined him. Picking up his option is a gamble, and it concerns me.
I wonder what Julius Peppers is doing today? Oh yeah, playing football.
And there have been plenty of Carr haters on this board.
The Dream
All Pro
Look just because I'm new to the board doesn't make my opinions new, like I mentioned before VY or no VY I didn't want Carr back for 8 mil, because he hasn't shown anything on why he's worth it.....and I never said that Carr sucks, I just simply stated that there is nothing special about the guy to make me think he'll be better than average, VY on the other hand has tons of potential and already does a lot of things better than Carr......don't try to come at me that hater BS, it's just my opinion.
Plummer has a good season and everyone's ready to hop on the bandwagon, at least Vick got his team to the NFC Conference game last year....after the Broncos lose next week, you'll see why I say Plummer is overrated.........yes they will lose.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
The Dream said:
Didn't you really mean...
"IMO Drew Brees is overrated, just like a lot of other QB's in the NFL (Jake Plummer, Carr, and a few others who didn't go to UT and win the Rose Bowl last week)"
Drew Brees is overrated? Jake Plummer is now overrated? You know what? Right now Vince Young is highly overrated.
texan279
Hall of Fame
The Dream said:
Did I say The Dream is a Carr hater? And I have not seen any good points to prove that Carr is no good/average. Everyone attacks Carr. No one says anything about the horrible coaching/playcalling. No one says anything about possibly one of the worst offensive lines in history, as far as pass blocking. Everyone says "he sucks" or "he hasn't done anything". What can you reasonably expect behind the guy to do behind an offensive line that gives him just over ONE SECOND to check his recievers then release the ball? Is he really supposed to put up pro bowl numbers on dump offs, WR screens, and 2 yard stop routes? The guy goes out there and plays his *** *** off trying to make plays to help his team win. The guys goes out there and takes beating after beating after beating trying to win games and make things happen for this team. You cannot expect Carr to win the games by himself. Most of the blame I see around here is on Carr. No one blames our defense where the CB's keep blowing coverages and where defenders whiff on tackles. I have MAYBE seen 3 people even mention AJ's problems with dropping passes again this past season while I have complained about it. But does anyone else really say anything, no, because he was in one Pro Bowl and because he is AJ. Point is you cannot blame one person for this team's failure, it's a team sport and the entire team needs to be blamed.
The Dream
All Pro
Look I'm not here for an argument, but it's obvious you think I'm some kind of carr "hater" because of my opinion (you don't have to mention my name becaue you made it obvious)....anways as far as Carr goes no I don't expect the dude to be a pro bowler, but I do expect him to show some sort of bright light to say "hey maybe he can work out as our franchise QB", and like I've mentioned before (if you've read any of my post) this team has a lot of problems, and it's not all Carr's fault, but dude does need to take some of the blame......like it's been mentioned before he can't read defenses, at times he holds the ball too long in the pocket, and he has shown no qualities of a general out there on the field.....it's been 4 years....I repeat 4 years and he hasn't done squat to make me think he'll be more than average....it's just my opinion.
texan279
Hall of Fame
The Dream said:
Am I arguing? No just discussing. How can he hold onto the ball too long when at the most he gets 2 seconds in the backfield before having to run for his life. Can't read defenses? The one half in 4 seasons he called all plays by himself, our offense broke the Texan's record for most points scored in a quarter. No qualities of a general? What exactly are you looking for? And hasn't improved in 4 years? His completion percentage and TD to INT ratio have been better the last 2 seasons than his 1st 2 seasons.
The Dream
All Pro
Okay granted our line isn't great, but there have been plenty of times where Carr just seems to hold on to the ball without throwing it somewhere...I think everyone on this board could vouch for that.
wow one half.....4 years and you point at one half
this in Noooooooo way means he has improved as a QB, yes he didn't throw as many INT, but there are a lot more things to being a good QB than not throwing INT.
Big B Texan Fan
Veteran
Tulexan-tulexan said:
I've got a question. Do you in any shape, form, or fashion cheer for the Saints? Just wondering since you seem to have gone to Tulane which is in close proximity to New Orleans or actually in New Orleans. If you do cheer for the Saints, then would you like to see us pass on Vince so that your team could take him since it seems that Brooks' future is over there. On that note, couldn't Brooks' failures be attributed to bad coaching?
J
jcruth
Guest
Ok I know this debate will continue on until the day we pick #1 and then 10 years after, but here are my 2 cents for what it is worth. Either pick bush or carr we are replacing a player that is good for their position. Dominik Davis is a good solid back and Carr is a good solid QB. Niether pick helps out with the true glaring problems that face the team on the OL and defensive front.
What McNair needs to do with the Texans is build something that Houston fans can take pride in. I continuely hear from individeuals saying its just hard to support the Texans, their isn't anything to get behind. There hasn't been that strong connection yet. This is impart due to the sting of the oilers and the newness of the Texans. But drafting Young a hometown product is a great story and one that helps the franshises growth. No mater who we pick we are still serveral years from contending. Neither pick will make us an overnight success.
Young Vs. Bush
Young- He has obvisouly demonstrated his leadership and will power. The question everyone has though is his throwing mechanics. Klye Boller of the Ravens as appluaded for this throwing mechanics and look at him. David Carr as a rough throwing mechanics and look at how he is doing. The main keey is he connects with the reciever. Young still has a bit to learn in staying in the pocket, but with our OL would you ever want to stay in the pocket.
Bush- Wow that man is fast. But to me a number one pick is an everydown back and I just don't see that in Bush. Granted USC had 2 great backs, but heck if he isn't a every down back for USC why will he be for the Texans. Bush does have great hands that will give us another recieving threat which is a plus, but does he run up the middle. He is more of an outside runner due to his blazing speed.
Both will be great and you can't really go worng with either, But I say go for Young, to me their is more upside than in bush.
What McNair needs to do with the Texans is build something that Houston fans can take pride in. I continuely hear from individeuals saying its just hard to support the Texans, their isn't anything to get behind. There hasn't been that strong connection yet. This is impart due to the sting of the oilers and the newness of the Texans. But drafting Young a hometown product is a great story and one that helps the franshises growth. No mater who we pick we are still serveral years from contending. Neither pick will make us an overnight success.
Young Vs. Bush
Young- He has obvisouly demonstrated his leadership and will power. The question everyone has though is his throwing mechanics. Klye Boller of the Ravens as appluaded for this throwing mechanics and look at him. David Carr as a rough throwing mechanics and look at how he is doing. The main keey is he connects with the reciever. Young still has a bit to learn in staying in the pocket, but with our OL would you ever want to stay in the pocket.
Bush- Wow that man is fast. But to me a number one pick is an everydown back and I just don't see that in Bush. Granted USC had 2 great backs, but heck if he isn't a every down back for USC why will he be for the Texans. Bush does have great hands that will give us another recieving threat which is a plus, but does he run up the middle. He is more of an outside runner due to his blazing speed.
Both will be great and you can't really go worng with either, But I say go for Young, to me their is more upside than in bush.
LoneStarState
Waterboy
And 5-7 more years before we're playoff contenders? No thanks.jcruth said:
tulexan
Hall of Fame
I have gone to a few Saints games, but I don't consider myself a Saints fan. I don't root for them, but I also don't root against them. I'm not hoping that the Texans pass on Vince Young so that the Saints can get him. I actually believe that Matt Leinart would be a better fit for the Saints because for him to be successful he needs to have a lot of weapons around him and the Saints actually have some despite their record.
I don't believe that coaching is a major factor in Brooks' failure. I believe that Brooks has a tendency to make the absolute worst play at the wrong time. Bill Simmons on ESPN.com recently said that Brett Favre lately has been a "white Aaron Brooks", if you have watched Brett recently you know exactly what he is talking about. Brooks and Favre will be driving down the field at the end of the game needing a touchdown or field goal to win only to throw a "kiss of death" interception to end the game.
I don't believe that coaching is a major factor in Brooks' failure. I believe that Brooks has a tendency to make the absolute worst play at the wrong time. Bill Simmons on ESPN.com recently said that Brett Favre lately has been a "white Aaron Brooks", if you have watched Brett recently you know exactly what he is talking about. Brooks and Favre will be driving down the field at the end of the game needing a touchdown or field goal to win only to throw a "kiss of death" interception to end the game.
LoneStarState
Waterboy
Yeah it does - especially when the QB is not from a traditional pro-style offense. How many years was it from the time McNair was drafted until the Titans went to the SB, the 49ers with Montana? How many teams have gone to the SB with a rookie or 2nd year QB?Tulip said:
In the beginning it was going to be a 5 year plan to make the Texans a playoff contender. People were howling this year that that plan was no where near close - Including a lot of the people who NOW think it's ok to wait several more years before the Texans are playoff ready. Most who have been Texans fans since before the team took the field are ready to win now. New Texans fans (those who are fans since the Rose Bowl) only care about one thing...VY. I guess 2-14 seasons with VY will be ok with them.
LoneStarState
Waterboy
The Dream said:
You're basically rebuilding an offense... remember 2002?
LoneStarState
Waterboy
Yeah - and McNair went to a team that had been in existence for 30+ years and had an OL.The Dream said:
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
The Dream said:
If I am not mistaken McNair sat for the first two.
The Dream
All Pro
stats don't show everything, there is more to football than just stats....one of the things that bothers me about Carr is his kind of "cheerful" attitude after we lose, I mean I see AJ looking like he wants to beat someone's *****, and all I see Carr doing is smiling saying how much it sucks and how they need to do things better.....I just don't see that competitive firey edge in Carr.
Eli Manning = overrated....3 picks on the day....I guess we know who got all the football smarts in that family.
Eli Manning = overrated....3 picks on the day....I guess we know who got all the football smarts in that family.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
The Dream said:
Agree with you. It frustrates me seeing him smile and laugh while playing with his hair.
texan279
Hall of Fame
The Dream said:
Carr did show anger around the middle of the season, towards the end of the season is when he was a bit smiley, and I can't blame him, what else can he do? And so it is OK for Mathis to laugh when Brown misses a chipshot field goal that costs us a game but Carr can't be cheery?
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
tulexan said:
I never said he needs to whine and pout. But the guy needs to take it personally. I don't want to see a guy answering questions laughing like it is no big deal. In my book that fosters a losing attitude where a team gets used to losing and can just shake it off. I want someone to take it personally and be a leader. I will never look at him as a leader and from what they have said, people in the locker room don't either.
B.Diddy
Waterboy
Fiddy said:Ditto...
VY becoming a Titan would make life unbearable...i'm picturing him in a Titans jersey
Me personally I want the titans to pick V.Young if the Texans pick Bush so he can play behind his mentor and make the texans pay:brickwall twice a season for being sooooo stupid and passing him up.