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Brian Gaine is leaving Houston Texans front office

Shishkabob said:
So if OB is truly out the door after this season, why did they trade up to draft a qb? Why not wait for your new HC to pick or help pick their QB. Instead you will stunt and probably ruin your rookie qb's growth by changing systems on them this early on. It doesn't make since to draft a qb knowing you will have a different coach next year.
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O'Brien is trying to save his job and reputation. As we know, he doesn't have a contract after this year. After 4 years he built a historically bad offense, but if Watson plays great, then he's a QB guru and offensive genius again.

Rick and McNair are probably not counting on O'Brien leaving, they just haven't decided yet (hence no extension). But there was a lot of tension in the room when the trade up happen, so a lot of the other front office folks were probably thinking WTF.
 
TheKDog said:
O'Brien is trying to save his job and reputation. As we know, he doesn't have a contract after this year. After 4 years he built a historically bad offense, but if Watson plays great, then he's a QB guru and offensive genius again.

Rick and McNair are probably not counting on O'Brien leaving, they just haven't decided yet (hence no extension). But there was a lot of tension in the room when the trade up happen, so a lot of the other front office folks were probably thinking WTF.
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OB is under contract for 2 more years. He signed a 5 year deal. Our FO doesn't extend people until they are going into the last year of their deal, besides JJ.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
You're right on all counts, it doesn't make sense..............until you realize the move came from the smart Texans FO.
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I think McNairs plan is let OB coach out his contract, barring a 2-14 type of season this year. Give him 2 years with a legit qb prospect and see what he can do with him. O'Brien is an offensive coach, whose offenses have looked abysmal every year he has been here. He put together a hell of a defensive staff, and Rick and our counting department have supplied that side with great players, but the defense has been what has given O'Brien 3 winning seasons and w playoff appearances, not his bread and butter offense.
 
TheKDog said:
O'Brien is trying to save his job and reputation. As we know, he doesn't have a contract after this year. After 4 years he built a historically bad offense, but if Watson plays great, then he's a QB guru and offensive genius again.

Rick and McNair are probably not counting on O'Brien leaving, they just haven't decided yet (hence no extension). But there was a lot of tension in the room when the trade up happen, so a lot of the other front office folks were probably thinking WTF.
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You know this how? Were you there? Was it tension or excitement?
 
6. I think you should pay attention to Brian Gaine’s move from Houston to Buffalo as VP of player personnel. It caused a ripple in NFL circles. For one, good on Buffalo GM Brandon Beane moving quickly in a very difficult circumstance, having to fill out an entire scouting staff on the fly. Gaine is a seasoned scout and will help Beane and coach Sean McDermott in aligning the organization, which brings us to what the Texans will miss. As for Houston, over the last few years Gaine really did become vital as a power broker on the personnel side, because his strong relationships with the bulk of Bill O’Brien ‘s staff made him a liaison between coaching and scouting in an organization where everyone hasn’t always been on the same page. That’s a void that may be tough to fill, and it’ll be interesting seeing where that leaves the Texans after the 2017 season.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/05/16/nfl-notes-bears-trubisky-jets-49ers-browns-quarterbacks
 
Shishkabob said:
So if OB is truly out the door after this season, why did they trade up to draft a qb? Why not wait for your new HC to pick or help pick their QB. Instead you will stunt and probably ruin your rookie qb's growth by changing systems on them this early on. It doesn't make since to draft a qb knowing you will have a different coach next year.
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My thoughts on this is Bob McNair knows he needs a QB regardless of who the head coach is or going to be. If he has to hire a new head coach after this year he will instruct the new head coach to coach Watson in much the same way he told Kubiak to fix David Carr. If a prospective new head coach doesn't agree that Watson can be a franchise QB he won't be the new head coach of the Texans.

Therein lies the fly in the ointment, you have Bob McNair dictating to the coaching staff how he wants his football team to be coached.
 
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steelbtexan said:
It's really simple,

Gaine didn't/couldn't work with Ricky McNair.

Texans loss.

BTW, this makes 2 pro player personnel guys that have left during the Ricky McNair tenure. Ever ask the question why?
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Didn't the first one leave for a promotion?
That one would answer itself.
This one probably has a back story
 
Carr Bombed said:
Well they were both North East guys and came from the Parcells tree..who knows, maybe they saw more eye to eye than people realize. It's definitely possible. Just saying.
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If it is possible, then why would O'b be upset that he didn't get to bring in his own guy.

That's all I'm saying.
 
Carr Bombed said:
Keep telling yourself that.. I don't hate McNair or Smith, Gaine was going to get his position regardless.. and it's a lateral move, they said so...but I wish him the best and don't blame him at all. It really is a smart decision... just don't paint me as a McNair, Smith hater.

There is a obvious schism going on though.
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This was the second offseason Gaine was passed on for a GM job.

He knows he ain't getting the Houston Texans GM job & this should make him look more attractive to teams in the future, if Buffalo becomes as talented as the Texans... or if the Texans suddenly become less talented, or both.

Still, I do believe there is a schism, but I don't think it's between the scouting department & Rick Smith. More like the GM/scouting department & the coaches, same as it was with Kubiak. & since the coach doesn't report to the GM & the GM doesn't report to the coach... it's what it's going to be until McNair (the only guy who can) puts his foot down & tell them what's what.

That O'b is going to be the OC & Romeo is going to be the Assistant HC... McNair may have done just that.
 
Texian said:
You know it's bad when you want to leave Houston Texas to go to Buffalo New York. Trading in his dysfunctional job for a functional one.
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You know there's an agenda when you describe Buffalo as "functional"

He's going to Buffalo to change how they do things. Meaning it's broke, needs to be fixed. There aren't any plans to change how things are done in Houston, meaning it's not broke. Or at least the people that sign the checks don't think so.
 
Texian said:
I would not be surprised if we were to learn later that Bill O'Brien gave Brian Gaine a heads up telling him that it was highly unlikely he (O'Brien) would be the head coach of the Houston Texans next year and that if a better opportunity came around for Brian he should consider taking it.
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What has Bill O'Brien done to make Brian Gaines give a sht what he thinks?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Brian Gardner was the Texans Director of Pro Personnel............he actually drew a demotion when he left to join the Titans as Director of Pro Scouting.........
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I think he was talking about McCagnon... the guy who left to be the Jets GM. The first of two scouting type people to leave.
 
Because its obvious Gaine was a genius being held back by Ricky McNair, just like our offensive guru who would shine if Ricky would just get out of the way. (I even like OB but its getting pretty thick around here on the tin foil hats and conspiracy theories) I'll put one of these in just so people know....

:kitten:

In late breaking news Ricky clogged a toilet and blamed it on the janitor because he threw away Ricky's lunch before he was done. No one crosses Ricky... NO ONE.

Good thing Gaine got out of here, and landed a job with a "real" NFL franchise. I for one still can't figure it out, depending on the agenda of the day Ricky is either a yes man who does nothing, or the most powerful person on Kirby.
 
thunderkyss said:
You know there's an agenda when you describe Buffalo as "functional"

He's going to Buffalo to change how they do things. Meaning it's broke, needs to be fixed. There aren't any plans to change how things are done in Houston, meaning it's not broke. Or at least the people that sign the checks don't think so.
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There is your reason (BOLD) why it's broke.

As for the agenda, Buffalo is beginning square 1 and that offers 4-5 year security minimum. Houston's boardroom is in the last season of The Real Housewives of Kirby Drive. say no more...
 
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Texian said:
Ricky does what he asked and told to do, just like Cal.
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This was exactly my point - then what good does firing Rick do? Half of the forum Texans haters are running around saying "Fire Ricky, it will solve all the problems and we'll be contenders" and the other half of the haters are saying "he just does what he is told".

Call me a Kool-aid guy I guess, even though I would think I'm a realist, the team is just over middle of the pack in the NFL nothing more nothing less. And they seem to be trying to learn how to be a "good" franchise. Doesn't happen overnight, and a lot of these teams that wish they had the success the Texans have had over the past decade (which hasn't been much) have been a team/franchise for 20 years longer. I feel for their fans, generations of fans have died without ever seeing their team win it all - signed Cubs fans.

I think you and others like you care about being right more than you care about being a fan/rooting for the team. And you are taking the easy road...

Every year all but one team fails to bring home the Super Bowl trophy - so EASY to say we suck fire everyone we'll never contend, because the odds are in your favor that we won't.

Do most draft picks succeed in the NFL or fail? Right - so it is pretty easy to say every draft pick we make sucks, because again the odds are in your favor that you will be right.

So you keep being "right" and I'll keep being a fan.
 
Texian said:
There is your reason (BOLD) why it's broke.

As for the agenda, Buffalo is beginning square 1 and that offers 4-5 year security minimum. Houston's boardroom is in the last season of The Real Housewives of Kirby Drive. say no more...
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Still... Buffalo is broke. They're looking to start new... They're the definition of dysfunctional.

It appears the status quo will roll on for at least another decade on Kirby. Gaines could retire here if he was looking for security.
 
Texian said:
I believe the Doctor has already answered this question once for you. See post #14.
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At most that post explains why O'b should care what Gaines thinks. I asked why Gaines would care what O'b thinks.

CloakNNNdagger said:
From a very well-respected, well-connected person that deals only with insider information regarding the business aspects of college and NFL football.
Neil Stratton‏@InsideTheLeague1h1 hour ago

Had heard this was coming. Seemed unlikely due to lateral move, but league sources made it clear Gaine was seeking a fresh start w/#Bills.

Highly regarded. Was a true ally of O'Brien w/#Texans. Had heard rumors #49ers delayed hiring GM/HC b/c they wanted O'Brien/Gaine tandem.
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thunderkyss said:
This was the second offseason Gaine was passed on for a GM job.

He knows he ain't getting the Houston Texans GM job & this should make him look more attractive to teams in the future, if Buffalo becomes as talented as the Texans... or if the Texans suddenly become less talented, or both.

Still, I do believe there is a schism, but I don't think it's between the scouting department & Rick Smith. More like the GM/scouting department & the coaches, same as it was with Kubiak. & since the coach doesn't report to the GM & the GM doesn't report to the coach... it's what it's going to be until McNair (the only guy who can) puts his foot down & tell them what's what.

That O'b is going to be the OC & Romeo is going to be the Assistant HC... McNair may have done just that.
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Or not,

Simple reply to the whole post.
 
I have no idea what the idea behind 'not being promoted here' is about (are we the only job available?). Dude is going to get GM interviews based on his success with the current team - rising to the top here isn't his goal regardless of how attached Rick is to it (obviously). He's leaving a team that has a gigantic defense, which has and will give him a ton of influence as part of that orchestration - that is his ticket to a GM position. A better chance of promotion by going sideways to a job with a new GM and HC on a losing team against the Patriots and much more difficult division? If (when) they fail, he falls off just as much so this 'replacement' is wrong. Gaine saw potential - our potential collapse and the Bills' potential rise.

'I wanna go home?' ... c'mon.

If a higher position was his goal, he would be here as 'his friend' goes 12-4 and makes it to the AFC Championship game. He would be offered several GM positions before we finished the season. Instead he left for a team with an entirely new staff (hired by the GM that he got passed over for) for an organization that has 1 winning season in 12 years. Or he saw a wall and how Ricky McNair would sh!t on it ... again. Obviously he saw where the Ravens and Broncos Superbowls dipped into his pool, and saw that he wouldn't have his voice recognized with our front office
 
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FuzzyLogic said:
This was exactly my point - then what good does firing Rick do? Half of the forum Texans haters are running around saying "Fire Ricky, it will solve all the problems and we'll be contenders" and the other half of the haters are saying "he just does what he is told".

Call me a Kool-aid guy I guess, even though I would think I'm a realist, the team is just over middle of the pack in the NFL nothing more nothing less. And they seem to be trying to learn how to be a "good" franchise. Doesn't happen overnight, and a lot of these teams that wish they had the success the Texans have had over the past decade (which hasn't been much) have been a team/franchise for 20 years longer. I feel for their fans, generations of fans have died without ever seeing their team win it all - signed Cubs fans.

I think you and others like you care about being right more than you care about being a fan/rooting for the team. And you are taking the easy road...

Every year all but one team fails to bring home the Super Bowl trophy - so EASY to say we suck fire everyone we'll never contend, because the odds are in your favor that we won't.

Do most draft picks succeed in the NFL or fail? Right - so it is pretty easy to say every draft pick we make sucks, because again the odds are in your favor that you will be right.

So you keep being "right" and I'll keep being a fan.
Click to expand...

Contrary to popular belief there is more than one type of fan. I imagine when I was your age I was a fan much like you. It's not so much that I want to be right as it is that I have seen this movie before and I know how it ends. Make no mistake you are a Kool Aid guy. If you were a realist you would be able to acknowledge that a Cogen Energy Boardroom is not conducive to running and managing a successful National Football League football team.

You can't blame Bob McNair for doing what he only knows how to do. You can blame Bob McNair for doing the same things over and over again expecting different results. You can blame Bob McNair for not recognizing his failures and hiring someone who has the know how and has proven success in running a successful NFL football franchise.

If McNair wants to be like the New England Patriots then he needs to do what Bob Kraft has done, hire one person to be the final decision maker for all football operations and then step back. McNair has pretty much done the opposite. The reason this team is middle of the pack is because they have been able to live off of Wade Phillips defense and it is getting a little long in the tooth.
 
Well we can agree to disagree... (and by the way pretty presumptuous to assume you have age on your side)

I would say if you were a realist - and even if you are correct on the Cogen boardroom - Bob McNair does see success in his football franchise.

The entire NFL is now a marketing company - not just the Texans. This isn't the NFL of the 60's 70's. These are billionaires with expensive toy's, and McNair has...

A profitable franchise, with a well respected game day experience - doesn't matter to me, I don't go to games - and doesn't matter to others because they only care about win's and losses - but it does matter to a number to Texans "fans" who pay to go to NRG each Sunday and can't name more than two starters. Yes McNair and the NFL care about those folks too.

A franchise he sees as going in the right direction - from perennial bottom dweller of the division, to multiple division championships and playoff appearances. Seems McNair thinks they are close... that what they are doing is moving them in the correct direction and they will get there. My crystal ball is broken so I can't for sure say they won't but I'll allow for the possibility that they never do and McNair's way won't ever work.

It doesn't change the facts that 1) if his way is indeed wrong, he has to learn that lesson and 2) even if/when he ever learns that lesson, it doesn't guarantee a Belichick is going to be his first hire and off we go.

I know in your head you have a list of "can't miss" football folks that all he needs to do is hire them and get out of the way - BOOM instant contender and dynasty. But it seems every NFL franchise disagrees with you, as none of them have that role yet.
 
FuzzyLogic said:
Well we can agree to disagree... (and by the way pretty presumptuous to assume you have age on your side)

I would say if you were a realist - and even if you are correct on the Cogen boardroom - Bob McNair does see success in his football franchise.

The entire NFL is now a marketing company - not just the Texans. This isn't the NFL of the 60's 70's. These are billionaires with expensive toy's, and McNair has...

A profitable franchise, with a well respected game day experience - doesn't matter to me, I don't go to games - and doesn't matter to others because they only care about win's and losses - but it does matter to a number to Texans "fans" who pay to go to NRG each Sunday and can't name more than two starters. Yes McNair and the NFL care about those folks too.

A franchise he sees as going in the right direction - from perennial bottom dweller of the division, to multiple division championships and playoff appearances. Seems McNair thinks they are close... that what they are doing is moving them in the correct direction and they will get there. My crystal ball is broken so I can't for sure say they won't but I'll allow for the possibility that they never do and McNair's way won't ever work.

It doesn't change the facts that 1) if his way is indeed wrong, he has to learn that lesson and 2) even if/when he ever learns that lesson, it doesn't guarantee a Belichick is going to be his first hire and off we go.

I know in your head you have a list of "can't miss" football folks that all he needs to do is hire them and get out of the way - BOOM instant contender and dynasty. But it seems every NFL franchise disagrees with you, as none of them have that role yet.
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I agree with you about McNair caring more about marketing than winning. (Gotta keep those $$$$ rolling in.)

I've said that if they continue to aquire players the way they currently do they will never be true contenders. But it really doesn't matter because the McNair's care more about the type of fan that cant name 2 starters than most of the types of fans that visit this MB. (Gotta keep those $$$$ rolling in)

When it gets right down to it McNair says he wants to be like the Pats but he doesn't. BOB knows the Pats way and wanted Gaine/Nick Caserio to help implement the Pats way. We see how that worked out and Gaine did the smart thing and jumped ship.

I would want the Texans to bottom out if I thought McNair would learn from it but he has proven he wont or doesn't care as long as the fans you described above keep showing up to NRG on Sundays. Gotta keep the $$$$ rolling in and that's not conducive to building a on field winning product.

See the theme of the Texans existence and the Watson pick ensures NRG will be full for another 5-10 yrs regardless of the product on the field. (Gotta keep the $$$$ rolling in) Sad if you really think about it.

Next yr we will be on this same MB having the same discussions that we've had for the last decade. On the bright side for some there will be a new HC after next yr but the results will remain the same.

Compare the Texans org and the way they were built to the Astros and the way they were built. The Astros bottomed out tore things down and rebuilt the whole thing. The Texans org just keeps patching the tires. BTW, I said on this MB when the Astros stunk they would be the next team to bring a championship to this city. Hope I'm right. I believe they are going to go all in this yr. Hopefully this will hurt the McNair's where it counts (That $$$$ aint rolling in like it used too.) and that is the thing that will affect change.
 
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Texian said:
Contrary to popular belief there is more than one type of fan. I imagine when I was your age I was a fan much like you. It's not so much that I want to be right as it is that I have seen this movie before and I know how it ends. Make no mistake you are a Kool Aid guy. If you were a realist you would be able to acknowledge that a Cogen Energy Boardroom is not conducive to running and managing a successful National Football League football team.

You can't blame Bob McNair for doing what he only knows how to do. You can blame Bob McNair for doing the same things over and over again expecting different results. You can blame Bob McNair for not recognizing his failures and hiring someone who has the know how and has proven success in running a successful NFL football franchise.

If McNair wants to be like the New England Patriots then he needs to do what Bob Kraft has done, hire one person to be the final decision maker for all football operations and then step back. McNair has pretty much done the opposite. The reason this team is middle of the pack is because they have been able to live off of Wade Phillips defense and it is getting a little long in the tooth.
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Not only is the defense getting long in the tooth, but so is Duane Brown and DeAndre Hopkins doesn't have an extension.

It's a shame we dismantled the excellent offensive line held over from the previous regime so we could sign Brock and Lamar (and I like Lamar, but RBs are replaceable these days).
 
steelbtexan said:
I agree with you about McNair caring more about marketing than winning. (Gotta keep those $$$$ rolling in.)

I've said that if they continue to aquire players the way they currently do they will never be true contenders. But it really doesn't matter because the McNair's care more about the type of fan that cant name 2 starters than most of the types of fans that visit this MB. (Gotta keep those $$$$ rolling in)

When it gets right down to it McNair says he wants to be like the Pats but he doesn't. BOB knows the Pats way and wanted Gaine/Nick Caserio to help implement the Pats way. We see how that worked out and Gaine did the smart thing and jumped ship.

I would want the Texans to bottom out if I thought McNair would learn from it but he has proven he wont or doesn't care as long as the fans you described above keep showing up to NRG on Sundays. Gotta keep the $$$$ rolling in and that's not conducive to building a on field winning product.

See the theme of the Texans existence and the Watson pick ensures NRG will be full for another 5-10 yrs regardless of the product on the field. (Gotta keep the $$$$ rolling in) Sad if you really think about it.

Next yr we will be on this same MB having the same discussions that we've had for the last decade. On the bright side for some there will be a new HC after next yr but the results will remain the same.

Compare the Texans org and the way they were built to the Astros and the way they were built. The Astros bottomed out tore things down and rebuilt the whole thing. The Texans org just keeps patching the tires. BTW, I said on this MB when the Astros stunk they would be the next team to bring a championship to this city. Hope I'm right. I believe they are going to go all in this yr. Hopefully this will hurt the McNair's where it counts (That $$$$ aint rolling in like it used too.) and that is the thing that will affect change.
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I'm not sure B'OB knows the Pats way. He throws away picks like confetti.

Very similar to what Josh McDaniels did in Denver.
 
FuzzyLogic said:
Well we can agree to disagree... (and by the way pretty presumptuous to assume you have age on your side)

I would say if you were a realist - and even if you are correct on the Cogen boardroom - Bob McNair does see success in his football franchise.

The entire NFL is now a marketing company - not just the Texans. This isn't the NFL of the 60's 70's. These are billionaires with expensive toy's, and McNair has...

A profitable franchise, with a well respected game day experience - doesn't matter to me, I don't go to games - and doesn't matter to others because they only care about win's and losses - but it does matter to a number to Texans "fans" who pay to go to NRG each Sunday and can't name more than two starters. Yes McNair and the NFL care about those folks too.

A franchise he sees as going in the right direction - from perennial bottom dweller of the division, to multiple division championships and playoff appearances. Seems McNair thinks they are close... that what they are doing is moving them in the correct direction and they will get there. My crystal ball is broken so I can't for sure say they won't but I'll allow for the possibility that they never do and McNair's way won't ever work.

It doesn't change the facts that 1) if his way is indeed wrong, he has to learn that lesson and 2) even if/when he ever learns that lesson, it doesn't guarantee a Belichick is going to be his first hire and off we go.

I know in your head you have a list of "can't miss" football folks that all he needs to do is hire them and get out of the way - BOOM instant contender and dynasty. But it seems every NFL franchise disagrees with you, as none of them have that role yet.
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From a dollar and cents perspective, yes Bob McNair is a success. If we are going to be honest though, the way the NFL is set up, run and managed it's hard for an owner not to be successful. They all make money. From an on the football field performance and production perspective the success is only average and ordinary and often disappointing.

As to my list, it is not a "can't miss" list. It is a list of the highest achievers who have demonstrated they know how to win many more games than their competition. These high achievers are in current positions where they have full and complete control. From the horror stories and likely advice from Saban and Spurrier, they have learned not to accept anything less than full and complete control. Saban, Spurrier and Harbaugh were Owner Failures NOT coaching failures. Pete Carroll has full and complete control and why he has been successful.

You are wrong that every NFL franchise disagrees with me. In fact many NFL franchises (Owners) have come calling. Meyer, Fisher, Peterson and Shaw get approached almost every year about being a Head Coach in the NFL. Based on the Saban and Spurrier fiascos and their advice, these high achievers have declined all offers up to this date. The NFL will keep calling but until these high achievers can get an ironclad agreement like Belichick and Carroll which is Full and complete control, they will continue to turn down all NFL offers.

Like so many Owners who have tried and failed so will Bob McNair if he were to call one of these high achievers. McNair is not going to agree to give up full and complete control of all football operations for his football team to anyone. At this point The Texans best chance for success is the Blind Squirrel option.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
This was an entirely "lateral" job change. Should be evident that he wanted out of here. And his reasons for this would have to start with the boss immediately above him that he had to report to.
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even more interesting on a lateral move Texans could have said 'no' as I understand.
 
Texian said:
You can't blame Bob McNair for doing what he only knows how to do. You can blame Bob McNair for doing the same things over and over again expecting different results. You can blame Bob McNair for not recognizing his failures and hiring someone who has the know how and has proven success in running a successful NFL football franchise.
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That hasn't always worked. Cleveland tried that with Holmgren, didn't work. Detroit tried it with Millan... didn't work.

It depends on the guy you hire, & a bunch of other things. Nothing I've seen says Gary Kubiak should have been that guy, or that Bill O'Brien should be that guy. Nothing I've seen says Rick Smith or Cal McNair should be that guy.

Sure... there's that list of names you have, but other than those guys being happy where they are & not going anywhere... what's plan B?
 
TheKDog said:
It's a shame we dismantled the excellent offensive line held over from the previous regime so we could sign Brock and Lamar (and I like Lamar, but RBs are replaceable these days).
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I didn't think Brooks & Ben Jones was let go to sign Brock & Lamar. I think (could be wrong) we signed Jeff Allen to a similar cap for 2016 that Brooks got to go to Philly. We didn't pay Ben Jones, but I think that was more a player "valuation" thing (even though I liked Ben) than a have to sign Brock & Miller thing. Then we drafted a guy in the 2nd to start at center... so.
 
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thunderkyss said:
I didn't think Brooks & Ben Jones was let go to sign Brock & Lamar. I think (could be wrong) we signed Jeff Allen to a similar cap for 2016 that Brooks got to go to Philly. We didn't pay Ben Jones, but I think that was more a player "valuation" thing (even though I liked Ben) than a have to sign Brock & Miller thing. Then we drafted a guy in the 2nd to start at center... so.
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Well, Allen signed for 4/$28 mil, with $12 mil guaranteed and about a $7 mil cap hit per year.

Brooks signed for 5/$40 mil, $21 mil guaranteed and cap hits that are $3 and $7 mil the first 2 years and climb to $10 mil for the last 3 years.

Ben Jones signed for 4/$17.5 mil, $7.5 mil gauranteed and and about $5 mil in cap hit per year.

Jeff Allen was almost as cheap as Ben Jones.
 
ObsiWan said:
Isn't that the way a boss/subordinate arrangement should work??

The alternative is for the subordinate to quit or get fired for ...wait for it.... insubordination.
:)
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So then Ricky McNair is not really a General Manager. He's only an assistant to the General Manager. So in this we agree.
 
So Ted Thompson is an assistant?

Schnieder/Carroll ?

Ozzie?

Elway?

Belichick?

Etc....
 
thunderkyss said:
That hasn't always worked. Cleveland tried that with Holmgren, didn't work. Detroit tried it with Millan... didn't work.

It depends on the guy you hire, & a bunch of other things. Nothing I've seen says Gary Kubiak should have been that guy, or that Bill O'Brien should be that guy. Nothing I've seen says Rick Smith or Cal McNair should be that guy.

Sure... there's that list of names you have, but other than those guys being happy where they are & not going anywhere... what's plan B?
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Your road map is all over the place but I'm happy to oblige your confusions. Holmgren was never successful as the sole decision maker. In Green Bay Ron Wolf was calling the shots and in Seattle Holmgren was fired as GM in 2002 and it wasn't until Holmgren was replaced by Ted Thompson as Seattle's GM did the Seahawks achieve success. That pretty much explains why Holmgren failed in Cleveland as the single decision maker.

Matt Millen was hired out the broadcasting booth and no experience as a Head Coach or a GM. While Holmgren and Millen were never high achievers as football operations decision makers, Ted Thompson and Ron Wolfe were. Let me think a minute....Ted Thompson and Ron Wolf....both mentors and teachers to Eliot Wolf....hhmmmm.

Gary Kubiak was just a so so coach as the final decision maker of football operations. Once he was relieved of those responsibilities and answered to a real GM as in John Elway he became a Super Bowl winning coach, much like Mike Holmgrem. The guy that built the team and put the Broncos together was Elway, Kubiak just coached them.
 
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ObsiWan said:
Isn't that the way a boss/subordinate arrangement should work??

The alternative is for the subordinate to quit or get fired for ...wait for it.... insubordination.
:)
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Not when there is a difference in professional ability and or a conflict of interest. A high level hospital executive who is not a surgeon should not tell a surgeon how to do his job or what tools he needs to use to do his job. An owner of a company who is not an engineer should not tell an engineer how to do his job or what tools he needs to use to do his job. The difference is that individuals who get to that level are generally knowledgeable in the businesses they run and are successful because they listen to people who are experts in their fields. That is not the case with football as there is a major conflict of interest between making decisions that will keep the fans in the seats and purchasing jerseys versus making decisions that in the long term gives the team the greatest likelihood of winning championships. No, football isn't surgery or rocket design but that is where the problem lies, those who know little about the game, like McNair, influence those who know a great deal about the game because they think they are more knowledgeable than they are, and that is wrong.
 
gs27 said:
Not when there is a difference in professional ability and or a conflict of interest. A high level hospital executive who is not a surgeon should not tell a surgeon how to do his job or what tools he needs to use to do his job. An owner of a company who is not an engineer should not tell an engineer how to do his job or what tools he needs to use to do his job. The difference is that individuals who get to that level are generally knowledgeable in the businesses they run and are successful because they listen to people who are experts in their fields. That is not the case with football as there is a major conflict of interest between making decisions that will keep the fans in the seats and purchasing jerseys versus making decisions that in the long term gives the team the greatest likelihood of winning championships. No, football isn't surgery or rocket design but that is where the problem lies, those who know little about the game, like McNair, influence those who know a great deal about the game because they think they are more knowledgeable than they are, and that is wrong.
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You're confusing detail with employee/assistant and subordinate/authority. The job of every employee is to assist/benefit the owner and that includes doctors, engineers, GMs, HCs. The owner also has ultimate authority. That includes telling engineers what to work on and doctors at times what kinds of procedures or techniques will be used with their clinic.

And the McNair influence yelling is greatly exaggerated. We know two seasons ago when 99% of fans wanted a new QB he said find a QB. Last year when the problem still wasn't fixed he said really guys fix the problem. That's Capt. Obvious level of influence.
 
steelbtexan said:
Compare the Texans org and the way they were built to the Astros and the way they were built. The Astros bottomed out tore things down and rebuilt the whole thing. The Texans org just keeps patching the tires. BTW, I said on this MB when the Astros stunk they would be the next team to bring a championship to this city. Hope I'm right. I believe they are going to go all in this yr. Hopefully this will hurt the McNair's where it counts (That $$$$ aint rolling in like it used too.) and that is the thing that will affect change.
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It's even worse because the Texans have massively mortgaged the future by trading their first and second rounders next year.

Heck it was a big punishment to the Pats to lose first rounders for deflategate and spygate. And these were very low first rounders. And they survived because they were already stacked.

Here we are just giving away a first rounder that can be pretty high if Vegas is right and we only win 8-9 wins. We still have major holes to fill.
 
TheKDog said:
It's even worse because the Texans have massively mortgaged the future by trading their first and second rounders next year.

Heck it was a big punishment to the Pats to lose first rounders for deflategate and spygate. And these were very low first rounders. And they survived because they were already stacked.

Here we are just giving away a first rounder that can be pretty high if Vegas is right and we only win 8-9 wins. We still have major holes to fill.
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Massively mortgaged the future? To hear some of ya'll talk we should just write the Texans off as never having a chance. Let's just put them with the Oilers and the Aero's and go root for the Astros or play tiddlywinks.

Why follow them if they're gonna suck in perpetuity as you seem to think?

How long did the Patriots wait for a winning team btw?

The negativity around here has become astounding. It wasn't this bad during and after the 2-14 season.
 
infantrycak said:
You're confusing detail with employee/assistant and subordinate/authority. The job of every employee is to assist/benefit the owner and that includes doctors, engineers, GMs, HCs. The owner also has ultimate authority. That includes telling engineers what to work on and at times what kinds of procedures or techniques will be used with their clinic.

And the McNair influence yelling is greatly exaggerated. We know two seasons ago when 99% of fans wanted a new QB he said find a QB. Last year when the problem still wasn't fixed he said really guys fix the problem. That's Capt. Obvious level of influence.
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Your Jedi word games don't work on me, I'm not confusing anything :nolisten:. I was not referring to scheduling or business decisions, I am referring to professional liability. As a doctor or engineer your number one priority is the safety and well being of your patients or the general public. If your superior wants you to do something that goes against this priority and puts the public at risk, you are legally required to do what is right. Football GMs and HCs have no such requirement to put future championship potential as their number one priority. If an owner of a team sets an ultimatum to get something done regardless of the risk (future potential of the team), it is going to get done. If it was so obvious to everyone that the Texans needed a QB, then why the need for McNair to publically set an ultimatum? It would be very easy for him to just tell the media that our offense struggled in many areas and he was holding Bill and Rick responsible to make the right decisions to improve the deficiency. McNair acted emotionally instead of logically, like your favorite POTUS :kitten:.

I like Watson. I am not against the pick. If Bill and Rick would have made that choice without pressure from McNair all the better. I do not think that was the case with signing Brock.
 
JB said:
Massively mortgaged the future? To hear some of ya'll talk we should just write the Texans off as never having a chance. Let's just put them with the Oilers and the Aero's and go root for the Astros or play tiddlywinks.

Why follow them if they're gonna suck in perpetuity as you seem to think?

How long did the Patriots wait for a winning team btw?

The negativity around here has become astounding. It wasn't this bad during and after the 2-14 season.
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Well the Patriots made the Super Bowl in 1985 then didn't go back until 1995. But that's because they finally built a good front office. When are we gonna do that? Are you saying we should give O'Brien and Rick 10 years?

Also, we are an 8-9 win team (in the worst division), have no first or second round pick next year, our best OL is aging, and Hopkins and Clowney are not extended.

How exactly are we supposed to get better? Just play harder?
 
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