leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Could be especially if Allen has another great season.
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Bradley Roby Traded to Saints
- Thread starter Lucky
- Start date
Well, in the case of 2 of the 3, they’ve gone to better teams/situations. We are in a bad situation right now, mostly because of Watson’s actions. Roby and and Cobb, both older players, are now in good situations where they have a chance to compete for the playoffs. I’d feel rescued too. I’m in the training world, one thing you might not realize is everybody has motivational drivers that influence their behavior. A lot of great athletes have a competitive driver. For someone like this winning is everything, they have a literal fear of losing. For someone with a competitive driver, the Texans situation this season would be horrific. Maybe that explains the happiness and the feeling like they can breathe again.
Shaq Lawson just flat out sucked. He was in preseason games playing against guys that were cut and put up a complete zero in terms of stats. Who cares what he thinks
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Better yet.....spokesman for Itchy's Crab Shack....come get all the crabs you want
Sean Payton
Dejaview
All Pro
When you get cut or traded you gotta save face because by all accounts this was reported by many players to be one of the most competitive TC environments the’ve ever been in.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Whoops
He needed the money. Panthers knew it. I can't imagine why he didn't call Caserio. I'm sure he'd have given a 2022 2nd.
The two situations are very different.
Basically, Belichick was able to have Gilmore at the All-Pro level for 2 years and 2 OK years, paying him as a 10th highest paid CB.
I'm going to use 2019 and 2021 figures as examples
Highest paid cornerbacks: Ranking NFL CBs by salary for 2019 season
19 NFL cornerbacks now make at least $10 million in average annual salary per year.
www.azcentral.com
NFL's highest paid cornerbacks: Jalen Ramsey, Marlon Humphrey, Tre'Davious White lead list
The highest paid cornerback in the NFL is the Los Angeles Rams' Jalen Ramsey, but he has company in the ranking of NFL CBs by salary.
www.azcentral.com
Gilmore's average salary was roughly $13M.
So that was well spent money by BB.
Basically, all of the money paid had been figured in.
The Pats don't have to pay him any money this year (easier to think of it this way.)
That's why they don't get much back for Gilmore.
On the other hand, the Texans still has to pay Roby $7M this year. The Saints only assume some $1.8M for the rest of the year.
(On top of that, Roby is still on the book for the bonus money the Texans had paid him, that is prorated for the length of the contract.)
Because of that, the Saint were willing to compensate the Texans with the higher draft pick.
After all, they're getting a starting CB for a mere $1.8M.
No one is arguing that.
However, we have one guy (not you) all over the Texans for questionable roster/draft management. He pointed out another team that one guy lauds, especially considering his baby daddy Eliot Wolf is part of that team's management team, tried to do the same thing Caserio did... push money into future years, & got less in return for a much better QB.
I'm not sure I'm following you.
Can you rephrase it?
Eliot Wolf & Belichick are doing the same things Nick Caserio is
I still don't know what you mean here?
Which QB are we talking about?
As for pushing money into future years, sure, every team does it, the question is whether it makes sense in the particular instances
Well, I think I had answered both points now, didn't I?
Well, where did BB push money into the future that doesn't make sense?
As for Gilmore, I had already explained it.
Gilmore wants more money and BB wouldn't have none of it.
That's one reason that BB couldn't get more for him because the new team now would have to deal with it.
Secondly, BB doesn't have to pay for Gilmore whatever that's left for the year. I believe he won't be able to play until week 7.
The Texans, on the other hand, paid a large sum for Roby's salary
They're buying the third round pick.
BB doesn't.
He tried to restructure Gilmore's contract to get more cap room for 2021. He wanted to change most of his remaining salary into a signing bonus.
Gilmore wasn't asking for more money. The Patriots were asking for a favor.
If Gilmore, Ramsey, & Roby were on the same team, that's how they'd shake out on the depth chart.
Or maybe Ramsey, Gilmore, Roby.
But never Ramsey, Roby, Gilmore
Or Roby, Ramsey, Gilmore.
Patriots cut Stephon Gilmore
Stephon Gilmore is about to hit free agency.
profootballtalk.nbcsports.com
Patriots to release Stephon Gilmore, market expected to be robust for former All-Pro cornerback
New England is creating some savings on its salary cap
www.cbssports.com
Why the Patriots are trading All-Pro Stephon Gilmore to the Carolina Panthers
New England's cap constraints likely contributed to the departure of the cornerback, who is a good fit for Carolina.
www.espn.com
The two situations are very different.
Basically, Belichick was able to have Gilmore at the All-Pro level for 2 years and 2 OK years, paying him as a 10th highest paid CB.
I'm going to use 2019 and 2021 figures as examples
Highest paid cornerbacks: Ranking NFL CBs by salary for 2019 season
19 NFL cornerbacks now make at least $10 million in average annual salary per year.www.azcentral.com
NFL's highest paid cornerbacks: Jalen Ramsey, Marlon Humphrey, Tre'Davious White lead list
The highest paid cornerback in the NFL is the Los Angeles Rams' Jalen Ramsey, but he has company in the ranking of NFL CBs by salary.www.azcentral.com
Gilmore's average salary was roughly $13M.
So that was well spent money by BB.
Basically, all of the money paid had been figured in.
The Pats don't have to pay him any money this year (easier to think of it this way.)
That's why they don't get much back for Gilmore.
On the other hand, the Texans still has to pay Roby $7M this year. The Saints only assume some $1.8M for the rest of the year.
(On top of that, Roby is still on the book for the bonus money the Texans had paid him, that is prorated for the length of the contract.)
Because of that, the Saint were willing to compensate the Texans with the higher draft pick.
After all, they're getting a starting CB for a mere $1.8M.
And the Texans get out from underneath his contract next year.
You got a problem with the deal?
Nor will he ever get it.
I thought I had already respond to you that Roby has no guaranteed money left in his contract.
He will not carry any dead money if cut next year.
The Saints got themselves a starting CB for $1.8M and a future third.
If Roby pans out, they'll pay him $10M to play another year; or if they prefer, trade him.
If not, they can just cut him.
The Texans paid $7.7M for a future third, plus whatever guaranteed money they will have to pay when they sign that draft pick
Can they hit on that to begin with?
Can you be sure that NC can find a guy in the draft in the third that can come in right off the bat and become a no. 1 starter?
Here's where it clearly spells out for you that Gilmore wants more money. A lot of it.
Patriots CB Stephon Gilmore on contract situation: 'I just want what I’m worth'
Patriots CB Stephon Gilmore wants a new contract, making that desire abundantly clear this offseason, including holding out of mandatory minicamp. He told reporter Josina Anderson he wants a pay bump in line with the rest of the top five CBs in the game.
www.nfl.com
I've got no problem trading Roby and the money because the Caserio shouldn't be worried about the cap this year and if there was a player I really liked in the back end of the 1st Rd, I would package my 2nd and the Saints 3rd and move up to get my guy. I would do this for the Cincinnati CB/,DE Gardner/Sanders.
We shall see how it goes next year.
Why the Patriots are trading All-Pro Stephon Gilmore to the Carolina Panthers
New England's cap constraints likely contributed to the departure of the cornerback, who is a good fit for Carolina.
From the article
There were other factors, sure. But this was a big one. The Patriots wanted to restructure. It is the last year of the contract. They did want to push this year’s money into future years. That’s the point we are referring to. Same thing Caserio has done & like you said, teams do all the time.
Just to clarify, it’s a 2022 3rd & conditional future 6th
Ok. Gilmore wanted more money. But the Patriots wanted cap relief. Otherwise they could have kept him on the roster, tag him at the end of the year, or let him go in FA & get a compensatory pick.Here's where it clearly spells out for you that Gilmore wants more money. A lot of it.
Patriots CB Stephon Gilmore on contract situation: 'I just want what I’m worth'
Patriots CB Stephon Gilmore wants a new contract, making that desire abundantly clear this offseason, including holding out of mandatory minicamp. He told reporter Josina Anderson he wants a pay bump in line with the rest of the top five CBs in the game.
Try to remember it was first reported they cut him. Straight up released him. This was because they need the cap space. That was their motivation to negotiate now. That’s why they were going to release him. That’s why they traded him.
It’s not like he was threatening to hold out.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Oh I get it alright, you are about as clueless as Nick Caserio. Now I ask you why would Bill Belichick, when he has over $8MM in cap space, want to restructure Gilmore's salary in October and push dead money into 2022 when Gilmore contract expires after the season ends? The simple answer is he wouldn't. Only Caserio would do something stupid and silly like that, see the Mercilus restructure.
Whitney Mercilus Contract Breakdowns, Salary Cap Figures, Salaries, Bonuses | Spotrac
They want to bring in Jamie Collins.
And they feel like they could do OK without Gilmore with that addition.
Remember that Gilmore hasn't played at all this year.
Now with Collins, they have another piece that BB think can fill a need.
....
They could have won the first game against the Dolphins easily but for that stupid late fumble.
(All the guy needed was to secure the ball and go down.)
....
They think they can compete now for a playoff spot.
A malcontent Gilmore isn't going to bring unity to the locker room.
He already skipped mandatory mini-camp.
It's not good for team morale to have him on the squad.
Which brings us back to they needed money. To do that, their first thought was to borrow money from future years.
So it’s not something that only bad GMs do.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Totally get what you are saying with all of this, BUT... was Roby really a #1 starter CB anywhere in this league? He was #1 on this team that has a below average secondary.
Replacing Roby with that third round draft is about replacing his talent level/contribution, not his depth chart position in a bad secondary. His three games with the Saints have been a nothing burger so far. At what point does his play or lack thereof actually make this a good trade trade for the Texans to get a 3rd round pick for what turned out to be a below average player that they would release in the off season with no compensation?
Where do you get this figure?
Texian
Hall of Fame
| Cap Space | $9,448,743 |
Team Cap Space: $8,859,130
New England Patriots Salary Cap | Over the Cap
My sense is Gilmore became a distraction in the locker room and that is why he's no longer there.
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That statement was referring to 76Texan & the nature of the argument. I believe you truly understand your argument.
you can call Caserio clueless. It is against this board’s policy to call a member clueless. stick to the subject, don’t condescend to insulting the member.
Again, my argument is based on the way it was reported. Beforethe trade they had $54K. After the trade they have $5.8M.
$8M is what they have now after dealing Gilmore... and they are eating $10M in dead money for dealing him
Texian
Hall of Fame
What about humor Francis? Is humor allowed? Clearly I must've been clueless about members being clueless.
There is no way they only had $54K before the trade because the trade subtracted $10MM from the cap in Dead Money. The trade would've put them over the cap if they only had $54K cap space. Sounds like bad reporting. I posted the 2 go to cap websites and both have Patriots over $8mm in cap space.
2021 Dead Cap
PATRIOTS
Cap breakdowns for players who have been traded or released. All count against the team's salary cap.
| PLAYER (48) | POS. | BASE SALARY | SIGNING BONUS | ROSTER BONUS | OPTION BONUS | WORKOUT BONUS | RESTRUC. BONUS | MISC. | DEAD CAP | CAP HIT | CAP % |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Stephon Gilmore | CB | $1,555,556 | $3,600,000 | $411,765 | - | - | $4,930,309 | - | - | $10,497,629 | 5.10 |
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That may be the case. I'm not stating that it was. As I've been saying, that's the way it was reported. Go back to the beginning of this discussion. Click on the links provided. Those links say the Patriots had $54K before the trade.
I never said otherwise; teams borrow money from the future often.
But only because they have a chance to be very competitive.
In this case; however, they don't need to do anything regarding Gilmore if they don't want to.
All his dead money is already accounted for.
His salary for this year is minimal; just some $5.7M if they want to keep him.
They only need a minor restructure from another guy to pay Collins since they already have nearly $9M left.
They tried to see if they can afford Gilmore long term, but the two sides couldn't reach a deal.
So they let him go, and they still have Collins and some change now that they don't need to pay Gilmore's base salary for the remainder of the year.
Who do you think we should compare him to?
Cornerback Rankings: The 32 best outside cornerbacks entering the 2021 NFL season | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF
Green Bay Packers cornerback Jaire Alexander tops PFF's outside cornerback ranking ahead of the 2021 NFL season, with Los Angeles Rams superstar Jalen Ramsey trailing closely behind.
But that’s the argument you jumped into.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Apparently Wolfe didn’t do a good enough job advising Belicheck and wrote too many checks that they actually would start bouncing.
Tsk. Tsk.
“There are three main factors in play: salary cap, contract and injury. The Patriots are tight to the salary cap, having about $54,000 in space according to ESPN's Adam Schefter”
Redirect Notice
www.google.com
In 2 games this year, he was targeted only 5 times.
He allowed 3 catches for 32 yards.
What do you think?
Bradley Roby Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Checkout the latest stats for Bradley Roby. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.
www.pro-football-reference.com
Yeah, because Nick Caserio is borrowing money for nothing.
I don't see a link from AS to where the cap was at $54K.
He can report anything he wants, but he needs to give the source.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Usually when a team avoids a CB it is out of respect. Deion Sanders took half the field away out of respect for his abilities. No stats can be a good thing.In 2 games this year, he was targeted only 5 times.
He allowed 3 catches for 32 yards.
What do you think?
Bradley Roby Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Checkout the latest stats for Bradley Roby. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.
ok. This argument is on track.
9 ways to skin a cat. We won’t know, imo, how well/poor he did his job until this thing is turned around & if this team ever becomes a true contender.
if we’re back to beating bad teams & only bad teams next year, then he failed. If we have the lead at anytime in the AFCCG in 4 years or less he did his job. If it takes 6 years, eh…
Texian
Hall of Fame
Some of us who've watched enough bad football over the last couple of decades know buffoonery when we see it! The Houston Texans have some of the best buffoonery I've ever seen. Enough buffoonery to know the Texans will be fighting it out over the next five years for that bottom rung in the cellar. No way am I inferring that you're a buffoon, or a clueless buffoon.
