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Bradley Roby Traded to Saints

76Texan said:
In 2 games this year, he was targeted only 5 times.
He allowed 3 catches for 32 yards.
What do you think?

www.pro-football-reference.com

Bradley Roby Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Bradley Roby. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.
www.pro-football-reference.com www.pro-football-reference.com
Click to expand...

I think I see a #1 starting CB who has played 30% of his team's defensive snaps in the three games he has played.
 
Texian said:
Usually when a team avoids a CB it is out of respect. Deion Sanders took half the field away out of respect for his abilities. No stats can be a good thing.
Click to expand...

In the game against the Patriots where he had no stats... he had two total plays that he was on the field.
 
Texian said:
Some of us who've watched enough bad football over the last couple of decades know buffoonery when we see it! The Houston Texans have some of the best buffoonery I've ever seen. Enough buffoonery to know the Texans will be fighting it out over the next five years for that bottom rung in the cellar. No way am I inferring that you're a buffoon, or a clueless buffoon. :)
Click to expand...

I think it is buffoonery for anyone to be able to judge Caserio after only months on the job.
 
76Texan said:
I don't see a link from AS to where the cap was at $54K.

He can report anything he wants, but he needs to give the source.
Click to expand...
Is there any cap source that can be revisited? Probably not, but here is another reporter (and he's from Boston) stating the same premise around the $54K.

boston.cbslocal.com

Stephon Gilmore's Trade From Patriots Was All About The Money

Stephon Gilmore and the Patriots couldn't agree on a new deal, and now their marriage is over. As is the case when most unions come to an end in New England, it was all about the money.
boston.cbslocal.com boston.cbslocal.com
 
sandman said:
I think I see a #1 starting CB who has played 30% of his team's defensive snaps in the three games he has played.
Click to expand...
I've been digging pretty deep, but it would take too long to explain everything.

I'm just going to concentrate on a few things first.

1. The Saints traded for Roby because he can play both outside and in the slot.

2. They have Lattimore on one side with a rookie on the other side.

3. Their main slot guy is Desmond Trufant, who's getting up there and had a bad year last year. (Why he was cut by the Bears).
They Saints also have PJ Williams as the back up CB.

4. The rookie showed well in the first game against the Packers.

5. Lattimore missed the second game.
The Saints were still easing Roby in since he doesn't know the playbook and all that.
They played the rookie a lot, with Roby, Trufant, and PJ splitting the rest of the snaps.

Snap Count Summary by Team

Display Snap Counts by Team
www.footballguys.com www.footballguys.com
The rookie was targeted a lot, but according to a Saints fan website, he didn't look really bad.
(I guess the rookie has some fans.)

6. In the third game, Lattimore returned. He and the rookie were given the snaps at CB.
The Saints have 3 pretty good safeties (M. Williams, Jenkins and Gardner-Johnson).
The opponent played more TEs, RBs, and FBs so the Saints played mostly with 3 safeties in this game.

7. In the fourth game, the Saints also played a lot of 3-safety set if you look at the snap count from the link above.
Notice how Lattimore and the rookie still got all the snaps at CB, with Roby playing 32% (most likely as a slot CB); the other two DBs had just 1 snap.

Both the rookie and Lattimore actually gave up a lot of catches, if you look at the Advanced Defense Stat on ProFootball Reference.
But Lattimore just got a big extension.
Payton somehow stayed with the rookie, despite calls to bench him.

Paulson Adebo | New Orleans Saints CB | NFL and PFF stats | PFF

NFL and PFF player stats for New Orleans Saints CB Paulson Adebo on Pro Football Focus.
www.pff.com www.pff.com

whodatdish.com

It’s time for the New Orleans Saints to bench Paulson Adebo

The New Orleans Saints just took an embarrassing loss to the New York Giants. Paulson Adebo was a big reason as to why that happened.
whodatdish.com whodatdish.com

(read the note of the uploader).

There's another YouTube video that was more specific on that, but I can't relocate it at the moment.

At any rate, a lot of fans are now thinking that Payton need to bring Roby in and bench the rookie.
 
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KoolAid Sipper said:
Is there any cap source that can be revisited? Probably not, but here is another reporter (and he's from Boston) stating the same premise around the $54K.

boston.cbslocal.com

Stephon Gilmore's Trade From Patriots Was All About The Money

Stephon Gilmore and the Patriots couldn't agree on a new deal, and now their marriage is over. As is the case when most unions come to an end in New England, it was all about the money.
boston.cbslocal.com boston.cbslocal.com
Click to expand...
Well, you're not giving us anything new.
Maybe, except for one thing; the article mentioned that moving on from Gilmore gives the Pats $8.6M plus in cap space.
That right there proves that the 54K was wrong, since Gilmore base salary and bonus together is only $5.7M and change

www.spotrac.com

Stephon Gilmore

Stephon Gilmore contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.
www.spotrac.com www.spotrac.com

That doesn't even take into account that the base salary comes in form of game check.
You play, you get a game check.
And Gilmore hasn't played any game yet.
In another word, you have to prorate the base salary.
(Divide it by 17 games and multiply it by however many games he's going to play).

Reporters can report whatever they want, but as long as they don't have the source, take it with a grain of salt.
 
76Texan said:
Well, you're not giving us anything new.
Maybe, except for one thing; the article mentioned that moving on from Gilmore gives the Pats $8.6M plus in cap space.
That right there proves that the 54K was wrong, since Gilmore base salary and bonus together is only $5.7M and change

www.spotrac.com

Stephon Gilmore

Stephon Gilmore contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.
www.spotrac.com www.spotrac.com

That doesn't even take into account that the base salary comes in form of game check.
You play, you get a game check.
And Gilmore hasn't played any game yet.
In another word, you have to prorate the base salary.
(Divide it by 17 games and multiply it by however many games he's going to play).

Reporters can report whatever they want, but as long as they don't have the source, take it with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...
I was letting you know that multiple people were reporting that Pats had about $54K in cap space. I think you and everyone else is thinking Gilmore is/was the sole piece in the equation. He was just a large portion but not all. I believe that if he had stayed on the team and figuring all the monies the Patriots would have conceivably paid to the team that is where the $54K came from.
 
KoolAid Sipper said:
I was letting you know that multiple people were reporting that Pats had about $54K in cap space. I think you and everyone else is thinking Gilmore is/was the sole piece in the equation. He was just a large portion but not all. I believe that if he had stayed on the team and figuring all the monies the Patriots would have conceivably paid to the team that is where the $54K came from.
Click to expand...
That is just a theory.
Without proof, well, I don't know what to say.
Reporters put out fudgy math all the time.

Let me ask you one thing, where do you think the $8M plus come from?
 
76Texan said:
That is just a theory.
Without proof, well, I don't know what to say.
Reporters put out fudgy math all the time.

Let me ask you one thing, where do you think the $8M plus come from?
Click to expand...
My guess would be by trading Gilmore AND other transactions like injuries that prevent players from collecting those game day bonuses. Even practice squad movement can also play a factor.
 
KoolAid Sipper said:
My guess would be by trading Gilmore AND other transactions like injuries that prevent players from collecting those game day bonuses. Even practice squad movement can also play a factor.
Click to expand...
Good possibilities.
However, I don't see much of anything in the last couple of days that could amount to much.

www.patriots.com

Official New England Patriots News and Analysis

Get the latest official New England Patriots news and analysis.
www.patriots.com www.patriots.com
 
TexansBull said:
I think it is buffoonery for anyone to be able to judge Caserio after only months on the job.
Click to expand...

Of course it is, but that doesn’t mean you can’t have opinions of things you’ve seen to this point. And what I’ve seen so far are tendencies that raise concerns going forward. That doesn’t mean let’s fire Caserio 9 months into his 5-6 year contract, however long it is.
 
Texian said:
Oh I get it alright, you are about as clueless as Nick Caserio. Now I ask you why would Bill Belichick, when he has over $8MM in cap space, want to restructure Gilmore's salary in October and push dead money into 2022 when Gilmore contract expires after the season ends? The simple answer is he wouldn't. Only Caserio would do something stupid and silly like that, see the Mercilus restructure.

Whitney Mercilus Contract Breakdowns, Salary Cap Figures, Salaries, Bonuses | Spotrac
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Caserio ate money to get a 3rd rd pick.

You got a problem with that. They need as many picks as possible if they spend 7 mil to get a 3rd rd pick. I'm good with this. It's not like the Texans will be needing the cap space over the next 2-3 yrs.
 
steelbtexan said:
Caserio ate money to get a 3rd rd pick.

You got a problem with that. They need as many picks as possible if they spend 7 mil to get a 3rd rd pick. I'm good with this. It's not like the Texans will be needing the cap space over the next 2-3 yrs.
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How is this relevant to the conversation and the Mercilus contract?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
That’s a bandaid that could be ripped off at any time in 2022 or 2023….preferably this coming off-season. Maybe a RD6 or RD7 pick.
Click to expand...
That's an expensive buy of a late round pick, costing $7M in dead money plus the prorated $2M (for the portion of the restructuring bonus this year) plus the roster bonus - and not even counting the portion of the original signing bonus.
 
Could a 10+ sack season help move Mercilus in the off-season for a RD6 or RD7? He’s got 3 already with 13 to go.
 
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76Texan said:
I've been digging pretty deep, but it would take too long to explain everything.

I'm just going to concentrate on a few things first.

1. The Saints traded for Roby because he can play both outside and in the slot.

2. They have Lattimore on one side with a rookie on the other side.

3. Their main slot guy is Desmond Trufant, who's getting up there and had a bad year last year. (Why he was cut by the Bears).
They Saints also have PJ Williams as the back up CB.

4. The rookie showed well in the first game against the Packers.

5. Lattimore missed the second game.
The Saints were still easing Roby in since he doesn't know the playbook and all that.
They played the rookie a lot, with Roby, Trufant, and PJ splitting the rest of the snaps.

Snap Count Summary by Team

Display Snap Counts by Team
www.footballguys.com www.footballguys.com
The rookie was targeted a lot, but according to a Saints fan website, he didn't look really bad.
(I guess the rookie has some fans.)

6. In the third game, Lattimore returned. He and the rookie were given the snaps at CB.
The Saints have 3 pretty good safeties (M. Williams, Jenkins and Gardner-Johnson).
The opponent played more TEs, RBs, and FBs so the Saints played mostly with 3 safeties in this game.

7. In the fourth game, the Saints also played a lot of 3-safety set if you look at the snap count from the link above.
Notice how Lattimore and the rookie still got all the snaps at CB, with Roby playing 32% (most likely as a slot CB); the other two DBs had just 1 snap.

Both the rookie and Lattimore actually gave up a lot of catches, if you look at the Advanced Defense Stat on ProFootball Reference.
But Lattimore just got a big extension.
Payton somehow stayed with the rookie, despite calls to bench him.

Paulson Adebo | New Orleans Saints CB | NFL and PFF stats | PFF

NFL and PFF player stats for New Orleans Saints CB Paulson Adebo on Pro Football Focus.
www.pff.com www.pff.com

whodatdish.com

It’s time for the New Orleans Saints to bench Paulson Adebo

The New Orleans Saints just took an embarrassing loss to the New York Giants. Paulson Adebo was a big reason as to why that happened.
whodatdish.com whodatdish.com

(read the note of the uploader).

There's another YouTube video that was more specific on that, but I can't relocate it at the moment.

At any rate, a lot of fans are now thinking that Payton need to bring Roby in and bench the rookie.
Click to expand...

That is an awfully long post to say that Roby is their #3 CB.

Which was my point. Just because he was a #1 CB here doesn't mean he is a #1 CB elsewhere.

The Saints gave up a 3rd round pick for what has amounted to a depth guy. A guy that wasn't available to the Texans for 40% of the games over his two years here. A guy with a strong suspicion that he wouldn't play at certain levels again because of his PED use. A guy that would be gone this off season if he were putting up these same stats for the Texans. Yet people are already calling this trade a fail if Caserio doesn't get a Day One #1 CB out of that pick.
 
sandman said:
That is an awfully long post to say that Roby is their #3 CB.

Which was my point. Just because he was a #1 CB here doesn't mean he is a #1 CB elsewhere.

The Saints gave up a 3rd round pick for what has amounted to a depth guy. A guy that wasn't available to the Texans for 40% of the games over his two years here. A guy with a strong suspicion that he wouldn't play at certain levels again because of his PED use. A guy that would be gone this off season if he were putting up these same stats for the Texans. Yet people are already calling this trade a fail if Caserio doesn't get a Day One #1 CB out of that pick.
Click to expand...

I want a first for Cunningham!!!
 
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sandman said:
That is an awfully long post to say that Roby is their #3 CB.

Which was my point. Just because he was a #1 CB here doesn't mean he is a #1 CB elsewhere.

The Saints gave up a 3rd round pick for what has amounted to a depth guy. A guy that wasn't available to the Texans for 40% of the games over his two years here. A guy with a strong suspicion that he wouldn't play at certain levels again because of his PED use. A guy that would be gone this off season if he were putting up these same stats for the Texans. Yet people are already calling this trade a fail if Caserio doesn't get a Day One #1 CB out of that pick.
Click to expand...
If you want it simple; sure.

On a team with a good defensive backfield, Roby isn't a no. 1
In Denver, with Talib, he was a no. 3, playing mostly in the slot.
In 2018; however, with Talib gone and Chris Harris Jr missing 4 games, Roby ended up with the most snaps by a mile even as he missed one game.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Denver Broncos 2018 Snap Counts | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the Denver Broncos 2018 Snap Counts and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com
www.pro-football-reference.com www.pro-football-reference.com

But there weren't that many teams with two All-Pros in the same year (Broncos 2016).

I was vehemently against the Texans signing Roby if you read my posts through the years.

I don't want him as a no. 1, but that doesn't mean he can't be one on some teams, the PED thing not withstanding.
 
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TexansBull said:
The average dead cap for this year was close to 19-20M. I think we already have 8 M on the books. So we are almost average.
Click to expand...
The Texans have $23,324,411 in dead money for the 2021 year. And $21,723,975 in 2022 dead money for 2022. And they haven't traded Watson, yet. That would be an additional $16,200,000 in a 2022 trade. There could be additional players on the books the may want to cut (Murray) or trade (Cunningham). A lot of cap space spent on players not on the team.
 
Lucky said:
The Texans have $23,324,411 in dead money for the 2021 year. And $21,723,975 in 2022 dead money for 2022. And they haven't traded Watson, yet. That would be an additional $16,200,000 in a 2022 trade. There could be additional players on the books the may want to cut (Murray) or trade (Cunningham). A lot of cap space spent on players not on the team.
Click to expand...
Clarification if I am correct: if the trade was in 2022 as you stated the dead cap hit would be 5.4 million with the remaining 10.8 spread to 2023. You probably meant if the trade was this season. I do agree with your post.
 
76Texan said:
If you want it simple; sure.

On a team with a good defensive backfield, Roby isn't a no. 1
In Denver, with Talib, he was a no. 3, playing mostly in the slot.
In 2018; however, with Talib gone and Chris Harris Jr missing 4 games, Roby ended up with the most snaps by a mile even as he missed one game.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Denver Broncos 2018 Snap Counts | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the Denver Broncos 2018 Snap Counts and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com
www.pro-football-reference.com www.pro-football-reference.com

But there weren't that many teams with two All-Pros in the same year (Broncos 2016).

I was vehemently against the Texans signing Roby if you read my posts through the years.

I don't want him as a no. 1, but that doesn't mean he can't be one on some teams, the PED thing not withstanding.
Click to expand...

I don't think we are in disagreement about anything related to his play. I'm just trying to bring this around to the win/lose or value of the trade.

Played 24% of snaps as a starter even though Washington threw the ball 41 times. Adebo and PJ Williams both had an INT and PD. Lattimore has 6 PD's. Roby doesn't even show up in the box score and it's not being they are avoiding him.

To me, the longer this season goes on and the less time he spends on the field, that 3rd round pick feels like a win for the Texans.
 
sandman said:
I don't think we are in disagreement about anything related to his play. I'm just trying to bring this around to the win/lose or value of the trade.

Played 24% of snaps as a starter even though Washington threw the ball 41 times. Adebo and PJ Williams both had an INT and PD. Lattimore has 6 PD's. Roby doesn't even show up in the box score and it's not being they are avoiding him.

To me, the longer this season goes on and the less time he spends on the field, that 3rd round pick feels like a win for the Texans.
Click to expand...
If he spends less time, the Texans may lose the conditional 6th round pick.
But the season is still young.
Right now, he's not a liability; like I said, he allowed few catches and minimal yards.
No TD allowed either .

I'm pretty sure the PED was to help him to be more aggressive in his tackling, which wasn't his strong suit like it was for KJax.
 
Lucky said:
The Texans have $23,324,411 in dead money for the 2021 year. And $21,723,975 in 2022 dead money for 2022. And they haven't traded Watson, yet. That would be an additional $16,200,000 in a 2022 trade. There could be additional players on the books the may want to cut (Murray) or trade (Cunningham). A lot of cap space spent on players not on the team.
Click to expand...

www.spotrac.com

Houston Texans 2022 Salary Cap

Houston Texans 2022 salary cap, contracts, cap figures, salaries, free agents, and transactions, including bonus breakdowns, team payrolls and more.
www.spotrac.com www.spotrac.com

They say 8.

Houston Texans Salary Cap | Over the Cap

Houston Texans salary cap, contracts, bonus money, dead money, and cap savings for every player
overthecap.com

They say what you say.

It really doesn’t matter. So much rebuilding having 10-20 million extra dead cap isn’t going to set us back.

Tom Brady isn’t walking through those doors saying pay me. Or Josh Allen. Or Herbert. Or even anyone else. And even if they did we don’t have the pieces to even to be remotely competitive. Even with a star QB this team is lacking.

And don’t go into hypothetical land saying we might if we could have the money to sign people. Even if we did no one is coming here to play.

I would rather have dead money than overpay a player like an Ahman Green or Eric Moulfs to convince them to play here. Let it fall off and build through draft.

2023 is looking really good salary cap wise. 2022 isn’t that bad either. Even with dead money.

A bad salary cap is the Packers, the Saints and the Cowboys. Being over the cap for 2022 and trying to play for a Super Bowl when you may just be one player away. That is a salary cap hell.
 
Thorn said:
Around here, dead horses can never be beaten enough.
Click to expand...

giphy.gif


That horse ain’t ever dead enough.
 
TexansBull said:
www.spotrac.com

Houston Texans 2022 Salary Cap

Houston Texans 2022 salary cap, contracts, cap figures, salaries, free agents, and transactions, including bonus breakdowns, team payrolls and more.
www.spotrac.com www.spotrac.com

They say 8.

Houston Texans Salary Cap | Over the Cap

Houston Texans salary cap, contracts, bonus money, dead money, and cap savings for every player
overthecap.com

They say what you say.

It really doesn’t matter. So much rebuilding having 10-20 million extra dead cap isn’t going to set us back.

Tom Brady isn’t walking through those doors saying pay me. Or Josh Allen. Or Herbert. Or even anyone else. And even if they did we don’t have the pieces to even to be remotely competitive. Even with a star QB this team is lacking.

And don’t go into hypothetical land saying we might if we could have the money to sign people. Even if we did no one is coming here to play.

I would rather have dead money than overpay a player like an Ahman Green or Eric Moulfs to convince them to play here. Let it fall off and build through draft.

2023 is looking really good salary cap wise. 2022 isn’t that bad either. Even with dead money.

A bad salary cap is the Packers, the Saints and the Cowboys. Being over the cap for 2022 and trying to play for a Super Bowl when you may just be one player away. That is a salary cap hell.
Click to expand...

I also read that if Tunsil’s contract comes off the books….the cap gets even healthier. I’d like to see how removing Watson’s numbers from 2022 would affect the cap…..dead money versus contract money.
 
steelbtexan said:
I would draft a QB in the draft, I wouldn't spend a high pick on a QB next yr unless Strong was there at say 10-15.

I like Texas Tech's QB Shough in the 3rd.
Click to expand...
And I quote you here to finally tie everything together so you can't say I'm not quoting you.
 
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