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All Encompassing Lockout Thread

Players believe they can justify a 48 percent take because of the projected revenue growth, as well as built-in mechanisms that require teams to spend close to 100 percent of the salary cap, a source told ESPN.com's John Clayton. The mandatory minimum spending increase is an element that concerns lower-revenue clubs, sources say.

For example, if the 2011 salary cap were to be at $120 million, a team would have to have a cash payroll of close to $120 million. In the previous collective bargaining agreement, the team payroll floor was less than 90 percent of the salary cap and was only in cap figures, not cash.

The higher floor proposal could cause some problems for the lower revenue teams such as the Cincinnati Bengals and the Buffalo Bills. Along with the salary cap, teams have to pay an average of about $27 million a year in benefits.

So McNair would have to actually spend up the leftover money he hasn't been spending??? Delicious.

I always heard, back in the last gasping days of the Casserly era, how once he just got out of that gosh-darned "cap hell" that we'd see McNair spend the newfound money and grab us some free agents and make splashes in FA.

Well, we've got a hardass GM now--who isn't Mr. Happy Face, apparently--who is now structuring conservative-minded contracts and only bringing in players we can lowball and get for lower money and better terms for the Texans, and what happens? Bob ain't spending the leftovers.

Poor Bob McNair. He's possibly going to have to spend all of a designated amount of money now. :(

I hope Bum gives him a couple of Bum's Tums chewable pills to ease the indigestion.
 
Another one of my favorite NFL Lockout Tweeters is Andrew Brandt.

Here's something he crafted at about 5 a.m. Central Time:

Up-To-Date Analysis Based on Latest Developments

As the optimistic drumbeat continues towards eventual resolution of the long-running labor dispute between the NFL Owners and Players, we are starting to hear reports of proposed deal points about what may be part of a settlement of Brady v. NFL and an eventual Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA).

I am optimistic but cautiously so. Again, until everything is agreed to, nothing is agreed to. However, there appears to be some momentum.

As first reported by my colleague at ESPN and someone trusted by both Owners and Players -- Chris Mortensen -- there are proposed deal terms being discussed that reflect key issues analyzed in this space in recent months.

The negotiating team for the Owners presented the basic deal terms to the full membership yesterday in Chicago, with a goal of taking a positive response to a meeting with the Players outside of Boston today. The following details have started to emerge. Let’s take a look.

Revenue split

While the Players have maintained their position for a 50/50 split of all NFL revenues – simplifying the math and setting aside discussions of credits, set-offs, expenses, etc. – the Owners’ offer has steadily climbed from a percentage in the low forties to a present offer of approximately 48%. These two percentage points may end up being the crux of this two-year negotiation, an amount worth $200 million this year and perhaps as much as $400 million by the end of the deal.

Using a present revenue total of $9.3 billion, 48% of that number would result in a Player allocation of $4.464 billion or a team Cap starting in 2011 of just under $140 million. The key would be how much of that number is allocated to salaries and how much to benefits. My sense is the player cost allocation may be around $121 million per team with the other $19-20 million toward benefits.

The Cap and its formulas and allocations are explained here.

As I have said for a year, the revenue split is the issue from which all others flow. It appears to be headed towards a 52/48 split between the Owners and Players.

Downside/Upside

Within the ultimate question of “Who gets how much?” to be “fair” in future years, there must be downside and upside protection.

In the CBA that expired in March, there was a mechanism called the Cash Adjustment Mechanism (CAM) which credited or debited future team Caps depending on whether Player spending exceeded or fell short of certain thresholds. In most years, the CAM adjustment was an addition to future Caps, meaning there was less spending on players than the established threshold.

I explained the CAM mechanism here when almost $5 million was added to each team’s Cap in 2009 due to it being the last Capped year.

Owners and Players are talking about a similar mechanism now that protects both sides through a formula similar to CAM. With this formula, it is expected that the Player share of revenue will not dip below 46.5% during the life of the CBA.

Cash Minimum

I have always felt that – for the Players – this is the most important issue of all. Having managed an NFL Salary Cap for nine years, I am well aware that a Cap can be molded and massaged to show whatever a team wants to show. Cap minimums can be reached using various mechanisms that eat up a team’s Cap while providing an excuse to agents and players not to spend.

Cash is king to Players. In March, the Owners offered a 90% cash minimum, which I thought was the most meaningful part of their offer. They have reportedly raised that offer to 95% or even higher. Were I advising Players, I would try to push that Cash minimum as close to 100% as possible.

I would think this potential concession may be receiving the most resistance among ownership.

This would reward teams with solid front offices and savvy “pay as you go” Cap management. With the Packers, I always tried to match our cash spending with our Cap, paying as we went rather than racking up potentially large future “dead money”. That style of management will be rewarded with the proposed new system.

There is a lot more if you click the link to the story. I just pasted some of the contents, not all of it.

This guy and Chris Mortensen are really good at actually providing a journalistic voice to the lockout and the CBA talks.
 
Just as we have have a glimmer of hope the the season may not get totally screwed up, a new statement comes out that slaps us back to reality.

League won’t lift lockout based only on an agreement in principle

Tuesday’s flurry of news and nuggets regarding the labor situation included plenty of broad-brush red meat for casual fans. Unfortunately, a decent amount of nuanced and esoteric details may have gotten lost in the process.

Here’s the most important one we’ve seen, so far.

In comments that, as best we can tell, were noticed only by Clark Judge of CBSSports.com and Howard Balzer of 101sports.com and The Sports Exchange, NFL general counsel Jeff Pash made it clear that the lockout won’t end with the negotiation of an agreement in principle. Instead, the doors will be unlocked only after the proverbial i’s are dotted and t’s are crossed.

“We would have to make sure the documents were fully drafted and approved, then both parties would have to ratify the agreement,” Pash said, per Judge. “We would have to do it, and the players would have to do it. There is some litigation that has to be dealt with, and so we would have to go before the various courts, and that would obviously [have to happen] on a quickened basis, as the court would hear us and have those lawsuits disposed of and resolved. Then we could open up. . . .

“If both sides are going to commit to certain positions and clubs are going to be signing players, large sums of money are going to be changing hands and players are going to commit to multi-year agreements, you would want to have this confirmed — not just in a general way but down to some fairly specific details. [Because the doors would be opened] you’re not going to want to close them again for either side.”

We listed last week the steps that would be required to take the deal from handshake to grave, and we opined at the time that all of the steps couldn’t be accomplished before the season starts, based in part on my own experiences with the settlement of class actions. Even if the parties can somehow expedite the process, it’s going to take a lot of work to turn things around in time for the first two teams who head to camp on July 22 — the Bears and Rams — to have a fair shake at signing free agents and/or their rookies.

The message to all parties? Get to work. Come early. Stay late. Meet every day. Order food in. Brew coffee.

Tell the lawyers to start drawing up the papers. Alert the judges and arrange for hearing times. If there’s any chance of the lockout being lifted by the middle of July, the foundation for finalizing the deal needs to be put in place now.

It also would help to have an agreement in principle. We’ve previously predicted that the parties will get to the handshake stage by June 30. Given everything that needs to happen from that point forward, June 30 could be too late.
 
Provide anything other than a MB post that says McNair hasn't been spending in the top 10 of the league every year.

Didn't Brandt say Mechanisms can be used to eat up the cap. Thereby giving owners excuses why they cant spend $$$$ because of the cap to players/agents/fans.

Billionaire BoBBY would never play that game would he?
 
Didn't Brandt say Mechanisms can be used to eat up the cap. Thereby giving owners excuses why they cant spend $$$$ because of the cap to players/agents/fans.

Billionaire BoBBY would never play that game would he?

Either he didn't really say that, or you've completely misinterpreted what he said.
 
Either he didn't really say that, or you've completely misinterpreted what he said.

He's referring to: "I have always felt that – for the Players – this is the most important issue of all. Having managed an NFL Salary Cap for nine years, I am well aware that a Cap can be molded and massaged to show whatever a team wants to show. Cap minimums can be reached using various mechanisms that eat up a team’s Cap while providing an excuse to agents and players not to spend."

But the author doesn't detail how they do it. I'd love some more detail on this. frontloading/re-designing an existing contract is the only thing I can think of that would adjust the numbers.
 
Didn't Brandt say Mechanisms can be used to eat up the cap. Thereby giving owners excuses why they cant spend $$$$ because of the cap to players/agents/fans.

Billionaire BoBBY would never play that game would he?

There are means of manipulating the cap with what are called Likely To Be Earned or Not Likely To Be Earned Bonuses plus the issues of dead money. But that is irrelevant as the Texans have consistently had one of the top payrolls (hard money actually paid out) in the NFL during their existence. They are considered a big money/big market team rather than tightwads as was being asserted.

That doesn't mean I am saying they have spent wisely. Just they have spent.
 
There are means of manipulating the cap with what are called Likely To Be Earned or Not Likely To Be Earned Bonuses plus the issues of dead money. But that is irrelevant as the Texans have consistently had one of the top payrolls (hard money actually paid out) in the NFL during their existence. They are considered a big money/big market team rather than tightwads as was being asserted.

That doesn't mean I am saying they have spent wisely. Just they have spent.

Not disagreeing with you about $$$$ being well spent.

The hard $$$$ thing was probably true during the Casserly yrs. I dont know about the Smith yrs.

I wish there was a link so I could compare hard $$$$ in the Smith vs Casserly regimes.
 
I'm already thinking about how to spend my Sundays this fall without football. And I actually like some of my ideas.
 
I haven't seen anyone talking about this (unless I missed a post), but there appears to be negotiats that has all but included an agreement for having a16 week Thusday Night Football schedule. I can see good and bad with this move.
 
I haven't seen anyone talking about this (unless I missed a post), but there appears to be negotiats that has all but included an agreement for having a16 week Thusday Night Football schedule. I can see good and bad with this move.

This is something the players hate.

It will make FF harder. But it's great for the fans.

Thursday night football its gonna be a party so lets get it started. LOL
 
I haven't seen anyone talking about this (unless I missed a post), but there appears to be negotiats that has all but included an agreement for having a16 week Thusday Night Football schedule. I can see good and bad with this move.
That would start in 2012 if I am not mistaking.
 
Provide anything other than a MB post that says McNair hasn't been spending in the top 10 of the league every year.

He ought to be spending in the Top 1 in this fan's eyes.

And, btw, no salary cap for head coach and other staff. Of course, I suppose Richard Smith being hired as our d-coord was strictly based on his prowess and track record as a defensive genius in the NFL. Right?
 
From strictly a business standpoint the lockout keeps the players nose to grindstone. Owners seem to have upper hand and should do little to lose that.
 
I doubt players who got their education feel that way & if all the players had done the same, shoe would be on the other foot.
 
I doubt players who got their education feel that way & if all the players had done the same, shoe would be on the other foot.
Are you saying that a player's education gives them viable alternatives to NFL? I disagree if that is the case. Nothing compares to
NFLcareer. "Hey don't mess with me, I'll go be a communication expert."
 
New round of tweets form Mortensen and Andrew Brandt.

link: tweets

Start at the bottom and read upward.

mort-tweet-B-1.jpg
 
I haven't seen anyone talking about this (unless I missed a post), but there appears to be negotiats that has all but included an agreement for having a16 week Thusday Night Football schedule. I can see good and bad with this move.

Let's make a list!

Pros:
Too many games on Sunday go unseen due to overlap. This will be one more game a week that you will be able to watch.
Another opportunity for a nationally televised game.
More money for the NFL to add to the pie.
Possibly more national exposure for the Texans.
Always have an excuse not to watch Grey's Anatomy with your girlfriend.


Cons:
Only 5 days rest for players who had a game the previous Sunday.
NFL network costs you extra money.
The Texans never win Thursday night games.
NCAA football is on Thursday nights.
Fantasy leagues will have to make their rosters by Thursday every week.
 
Let's make a list!

Pros:
Too many games on Sunday go unseen due to overlap. This will be one more game a week that you will be able to watch. They will need to make the announcing better because the play by play sux right now. Also this will begin to be redundant.
Another opportunity for a nationally televised game.
More money for the NFL to add to the pie.
Possibly more national exposure for the Texans.Yeah right, you're going to get more Jets, Eagles,Patriots and Cowboys games 3 to 5 times in one season like MNF does right now. We will only be able to get on if we are playing those teams
Always have an excuse not to watch Grey's Anatomy with your girlfriend.


Cons:
Only 5 days rest for players who had a game the previous Sunday. It would be fair if all teams have to play one Thursday.
NFL network costs you extra money.
The Texans never win Thursday night games. WRONG! Our win on Thursday night came against Denver in 2008 when Mario hushed the critics.
NCAA football is on Thursday nights. Teams that matter don't play on that day!
Fantasy leagues will have to make their rosters by Thursday every week. Yeah but that wont be everyone every week.

My thoughts in Blue.
 
Let's make a list!

Pros:
Too many games on Sunday go unseen due to overlap. This will be one more game a week that you will be able to watch.
Another opportunity for a nationally televised game.
More money for the NFL to add to the pie.
Possibly more national exposure for the Texans.
Always have an excuse not to watch Grey's Anatomy with your girlfriend.


Cons:
Only 5 days rest for players who had a game the previous Sunday.
NFL network costs you extra money.
The Texans never win Thursday night games.
NCAA football is on Thursday nights.
Fantasy leagues will have to make their rosters by Thursday every week.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aVKRIa9chE
 
Cons:
Only 5 days rest for players who had a game the previous Sunday.
NFL network costs you extra money.
The Texans never win Thursday night games.
NCAA football is on Thursday nights.
Fantasy leagues will have to make their rosters by Thursday every week.

Cons: It's a WHOLE lot easier for a FAN to travel for Sunday/Monday games. Not so easy for Thurs night. Had to take off three days for Philly game last year.
 
ricklandon11‎ RT @mnsportszone: A lot of #NFL players tweeting they think the #Lockout end is near!!!

rhiannonmyee‎ RT @EffYou_PayMe: Are You Ready For Some Football?? Experts Say NFL Lockout Closer To Being Over Than We Thought
 
ricklandon11‎ RT @mnsportszone: A lot of #NFL players tweeting they think the #Lockout end is near!!!

rhiannonmyee‎ RT @EffYou_PayMe: Are You Ready For Some Football?? Experts Say NFL Lockout Closer To Being Over Than We Thought

Which players are saying that? I currently follow around 160 players and haven't seen tweets like that.

I did see PFT post saying players were told the deal isn't close to being done. Which could very well be a farce in order to calm things down a bit
 
Which players are saying that? I currently follow around 160 players and haven't seen tweets like that.

I did see PFT post saying players were told the deal isn't close to being done. Which could very well be a farce in order to calm things down a bit
I am just posting what I am reading there are a lot of rumors out there pick who you want to believe.
 
Smith needs to zip it!

A new report came out...............the wording scares the Pjeez out of me:

"We are headed in the right direction," an unidentified source told ESPN on Thursday. "There is a desire on both sides to reach an agreement sooner rather than later."

Multiple reports say the sides are close to finalizing a deal and would like to do so before the July 4 holiday weekend. Yahoo! Sports reported the 2011 season will begin on or around July 15.
 
Muppet's probably a pretty accurate description given to Smith in this photo by a lead Kansas City Chiefs blogger.
de-smith-face.jpg


NFL Lockout Update: Hey De Smith, Shut The Hell Up

Hey De Smith. You look like a muppet. Shut up and get a deal done.

The NFL lockout is still going strong despite recent reports of progress at the bargaining table.

ESPN is reporting that the latest round of super secret talks at an undisclosed location inside a secret bunker outside of Boston have wrapped up for the week. ESPN’s Sal Paolantonio reports via an unnamed source that talks are heading in the “right direction.” Talks are expected to resume next week, though both sides are expected to continue working and hammering out details until that time.

Now that we got the good news out of the way, Pro Football Talk is reporting via an unnamed source (surprise) that NFLPA/Trade Association representative DeMaurice Smith told the players that a deal is not close and to “not believe the hype.”

Well damn.

First of all, and I am sympathetic to the players, Smith needs to shut the hell up. For a couple of weeks now, both sides have been talking and we have been getting nothing but positive reports that things were moving in the right direction. For the first time in a long time we haven’t had to hear either side taking shots at the other in public. We haven’t had to hear any pro union/player or pro owner spin campaigns.

Now, when it seems things might finally be happening, Smith has to go off and run his mouth. He knew damn well his “message” to players would leak out. I am not sure what his motive is but I can tell you his actions, if he did indeed do this, are not productive.

This is a tense situation and the last thing we need is one side or the other to start shooting off their mouth in a sly attempt to try to gain some leverage, whether it be in the negotiations or with the court of public opinion. While Smith’s words weren’t a direct shot at the owners, they were not helpful to the effort to keep the mood positive and the talks focused.
I’ve been very supportive of the players throughout this entire process. If the reports I have been hearing about the potential framework of the new CBA, the players are closer to getting a fair deal than they have been at any time throughout this process.

So please, DeMaurice Smith, shut the hell up.
 
You know something, sorry, but I hope every damn one of them goes broke. Players and owners alike.

They can all kiss my damn ass.
 
Barriers continue to crop up at every turn.


Reduction of free agency to four years may be harder than it looks

Last season, after the threshold for unrestricted free agency had been moved from four years to six years, there was talk that the league didn’t plan to go back to four. We thought it was posturing, aimed only at making the players feel like they’ve secured a significant concession when the league returns to the UFA path that applied from the creation of real (mostly) free agency through 2009. So when Adam Schefter of ESPN reported that the new CBA would roll the limit back to four, it wasn’t much of a surprise.

Now here’s the surprise.

Chris Mortensen of ESPN told 101 ESPN in St. Louis that, once the free-agency frenzy commences, the owners want to have a right of first refusal as to three or four players per team. This would operate essentially as the transition tag, which provides a right to match but no compensation. And, in cases where the current team chooses to match, it means that the team that pursued the player negotiated his new contract with his old team at no charge. (In this regard, it would be wise for the new CBA to deal with the whole Steve Hutchinson “poison pill” thing.)

Also, Howard Balzer of 101 ESPN tells us that teams that didn’t apply the franchise tag to players with four or five years of service want to have the chance to do so.


As to the latter point, we’d say, “Tough crap.” Teams should have known that free agency likely would be reverting to the pre-2010 rules. And teams like the Steelers and the Ravens were smart enough to apply the franchise tag to LaMarr Woodley (pictured) and Haloti Ngata, respectively, even though neither guy has six years of service. Any owners that took a chance on the free agency rules not changing from 2010 to 2011 gambled and, apparently, lost. Thus, if they want to keep their four-year or five-year free agents, they need to pay them market value.

It’s only fair, given the manner in which teams didn’t pursue restricted free agents in 2010.
 
You know something, sorry, but I hope every damn one of them goes broke. Players and owners alike.

They can all kiss my damn ass.

Thorn, Pleeeeeez Pleeeeeeez don't distract them with that offer.............next thing they'll be doing is arguing over who gets to go first!
:kubepalm::wadepalm:
 
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...layers-commit-to-four-straight-days-of-talks/

ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reports that the two sides will meet for four straight days this week in Minneapolis. That’s the longest period of sustained negotiations since the lockout started.

BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/28/owners-and-players-wont-be-in-minnesota/

No owners or players are expected at this round of talks, according to Albert Breer of NFL Network. NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, NFLPA* chief DeMaurice Smith, and their respective staffs will be there. So will attorneys for both sides. Breer describes it as “part of the process.”
 
We have plenty of time before July first, don't we? Today is Tuesday and there is Wednesday, Thursday and then oh CRAP!!
 
Not disagreeing with you about $$$$ being well spent.

The hard $$$$ thing was probably true during the Casserly yrs. I dont know about the Smith yrs.

I wish there was a link so I could compare hard $$$$ in the Smith vs Casserly regimes.

It's still true, I can garuntee you that at most the Texans have had 2 years where they weren't in the top 10 in terms of payroll paid out. The teams you're thinking of are the Chiefs and the Bucs there steelb.
 
Good sign? Goodell, Smith fly to rookie event during labor talk

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith opened a four-day labor discussion in Minnesota, then hopped on a plane to Florida to speak to rookies.

Spokesmen for the league and the players' association confirmed Tuesday night to The Associated Press that Goodell and Smith were on the same plane from Minnesota to address players at the NFLPA-run rookie symposium. Smith asked Goodell to speak to the players Wednesday morning at the Ritz-Carlton hotel in Sarasota, Fla., and the commissioner agreed.

Goodell and Smith plan to leave Florida later Wednesday to fly back to Minneapolis and continue the labor talks, which have taken on a decidedly different look.

Goodell and Smith are accompanied only by their staffs, rather than members of each constituency, and owners and players aren't expected to directly participate, although they will remain apprised of any developments. The parties' legal teams are expected to trade proposals on the framework of a settlement, in an effort to move the process toward conclusion, and they will intensify their focus on the key issues, most notably the revenue split.

The four-day, face-to-face session will be the longest yet. The previous longest session was the first one, held May 31 through June 2 near a private airport in suburban Chicago. Subsequent meetings on New York's Long Island, Maryland's Eastern Shore and Massachusetts' South Shore each lasted two days.

The changing time frame surrounding this set of talks and the shifting cast of characters -- the first "secret" meetings only included Goodell, Smith, owners, players and U.S. Magistrate Judge Arthur Boylan -- are seen as part of the process of negotiating a new agreement to end a lockout that's in its fourth month.

Boylan ran three two-day sets of court-ordered mediation between the owners and players in April and May, and he has been present for all of the more recent meetings. His chambers are located in Minneapolis.

A decision from the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, where the league appealed a district court's issuance of a lockout-lifting injunction, could come soon, too. The time frame on such decisions from an appeals court generally is 30 to 45 days, and the hearing was held June 3. However, the league and players have expressed a desire to work toward an agreement before the three-judge panel's ruling is announced.

The St. Louis Rams and Chicago Bears, who are scheduled to play in the preseason-opening Hall of Fame Game on Aug. 7, are set to open training camp just three weeks from Friday, and time is beginning to run short on the parties' negotiating teams as they look to preserve the preseason in its traditional form. Some have suggested July 15 as the deadline for that to happen.

The parties have spent the past four weeks largely discussing the revenue split, an issue that dwarfs all others. It's not just the revenue now, but also how to account for the players' take in the league's future growth, particularly when the next round of television deals are negotiated for 2014 and beyond. The idea of an "all revenue" model, which would eliminate cost credits to the owners and limit revenue projections, has bridged some differences, but the issue still hasn't been settled.

The parties broached the rookie pay system for the first time during clandestine sessions Thursday, and it also proved to be a difficult area to navigate. Last year's No. 1 overall draft pick, Rams quarterback Sam Bradford, received about $50 million guaranteed in his rookie deal, and the owners have long looked to drastically mark down price tags like this.

The numbers aren't the only issue. Finding a way to replace the market effect those contracts have on veterans and getting those high picks to free agency quicker are among the players' concerns. Currently, six-year contracts are allowed for the high first-round picks making big money.

Last week, one team executive told NFL Network that owners and players were within "striking distance" of a deal, but that nothing was close or imminent. But another involved executive said: "There are enough legitimate issues to where it could all fall down still. They're dealing with that stuff."

After last week's meeting at a beachside resort in Hull, Mass., Goodell and Smith emerged together and provided a symbolic moment in the joint effort toward a resolution.

"Someone asked me if I was optimistic -- I think we're both optimistic when we have the right people in the room," Smith said. "We know we're talking about the right issues, and we're working hard to get it done. It's extremely complicated. It requires a lot of hard work by a lot of people. But we're committed to getting something done. And we're gonna keep working at it."

Said Goodell: "We are under court order, as far as what we can discuss. Obviously we're all working hard, the players and owners were here over the last few days, and De and I were here for the entire meetings also. And it's complicated and it's complex, but we're working hard. We understand the fans' frustration, but I think both of us feel strongly that we're going to continue to work hard on it."

Goodell and Smith have been joined by Carolina Panthers owner Jerry Richardson, New York Giants owner John Mara, New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft, New York Jets fullback Tony Richardson, Baltimore Ravens cornerback Domonique Foxworth and Indianapolis Colts center Jeff Saturday, as well as Boylan, as constants in the room.

NFLPA president Kevin Mawae, who has been in some talks, attended the trade association's rookie seminar Tuesday and said roughly 170 players were participating in the event. Mawae also addressed more than 40 Tampa Bay Buccaneers players who are holding a three day minicamp at the vast IMG Academy campus, where the NFLPA event is being held.
 
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