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All Encompassing Lockout Thread
- Thread starter AcresHomesTexan
- Start date
Does anybody else feel like I do?
Goddell makes me long for the Tagliabue yrs.
CBA aside, his rule changes are ruining the best sport in the world. It's almost as if he wants to take hard hits out of the game.
His leadership skills have been lacking during the CBA negs and he seems a bit power hungry as several players have pointed out during the lockout.
Goddell makes me long for the Tagliabue yrs.
CBA aside, his rule changes are ruining the best sport in the world. It's almost as if he wants to take hard hits out of the game.
His leadership skills have been lacking during the CBA negs and he seems a bit power hungry as several players have pointed out during the lockout.
gary
Hall of Fame
If the rules keep changing it won't be fun anymore. He has made his safety marks or so he thinks fine but he should stop with the rule changes while is still ahead because he won't be if the rules continue to change.
GP
Go Texans!
One of my favorites, Andrew Brandt, supplying another summary of where we're at and the key issues.
Link to article (I have only given a small excerpt. Full article found at the link)
I wonder if Brady vs. NFL case is what has prompted the owners to seek a deal with the players SOONER rather than later???
The reason: If the owners ended up canceling a 2011 season, the Brady vs. NFL case would eventually require them to show more of their books than they might be inclined to provide--Because it might show they have no real case for a lockout and they've been stashing money to pay themselves while they wrongly locked out the players for a whole season.
Now, they're realizing that they have got to do a deal and get Brady vs. NFL settled. In essence, the owners will want the players to settle and end the Brady vs. NFL suit as part of the negotiations on getting a CBA achieved. Leverage, in other words. If this is true, which it might not be since I admittedly am not a lawyer, it means (to me) that the very thing the owners used to insure themselves in a prolonged lockout--the stash of TV money--has been used against them by the players to bring an end to the lockout. In short: Owners gambled, and the players busted them out.
Could it be that Brady vs. NFL was the singular influencing "agent" that coaxed owners to move more to the middle and start up some real negotiations that we're seeing now?
Link to article (I have only given a small excerpt. Full article found at the link)
I wonder if Brady vs. NFL case is what has prompted the owners to seek a deal with the players SOONER rather than later???
The reason: If the owners ended up canceling a 2011 season, the Brady vs. NFL case would eventually require them to show more of their books than they might be inclined to provide--Because it might show they have no real case for a lockout and they've been stashing money to pay themselves while they wrongly locked out the players for a whole season.
Now, they're realizing that they have got to do a deal and get Brady vs. NFL settled. In essence, the owners will want the players to settle and end the Brady vs. NFL suit as part of the negotiations on getting a CBA achieved. Leverage, in other words. If this is true, which it might not be since I admittedly am not a lawyer, it means (to me) that the very thing the owners used to insure themselves in a prolonged lockout--the stash of TV money--has been used against them by the players to bring an end to the lockout. In short: Owners gambled, and the players busted them out.
Could it be that Brady vs. NFL was the singular influencing "agent" that coaxed owners to move more to the middle and start up some real negotiations that we're seeing now?
gary
Hall of Fame
By David Coleman - Managing Editor
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell meets with DeMaurice Smith in Minnesota, then flies with him to Florida for the rookie symposium.
Follow @sbnhouston on Twitter, and Like SB Nation Houston on Facebook.
Jun 29, 2011 - Lots of reports pouring out of this Minnesota meeting between Roger Goodell and DeMaurice Smith. The two then flew together to Florida and talked with players at the rookie symposium, hosted by the non-existent NFLPA instead of the NFL this season.
SB Nation's own Joel Thorman breaks down the news, which was very positive indeed. But, National Football Post writer Andrew Brandt throws a little cold water on the whole process:
As to reports of a deal being close or "85% done", well, that is like being 85% pregnant. There is a deal or no deal. Until then, it is just -- pardon the pun -- labor pains. We await the baby.
I know I'm much more optimistic now than I've been in months, but there's no sure end to this lockout in sight. Hopefully, the owners will come together with players in the next weeks and realize how much damage they'll all take financially if this thing drags out into the season.
Another intersting, lockout link comes from Battle Red Blog and looks at a possible rookie salary scale. I completely agree that capping the top of the draft will lead to a much more fun three days, as teams will be trading a little more freely in that range. On the other hand, those small market teams at the top of the draft may not need to trade that pick away, since the financial hit won't be as great if their player busts.
What I do think will change with that salary scale is teams taking the player they like the most, instead of taking the quarterback. Right now, I think teams feel pressured to take the guy at the higher paid position like a quarterback, over a cornerback or defensive lineman who they may have higher on their draft boards.
http://houston.sbnation.com/2011/6/29/2250578/nfl-lockout-2011-update-theyre-making-progress
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell meets with DeMaurice Smith in Minnesota, then flies with him to Florida for the rookie symposium.
Follow @sbnhouston on Twitter, and Like SB Nation Houston on Facebook.
Jun 29, 2011 - Lots of reports pouring out of this Minnesota meeting between Roger Goodell and DeMaurice Smith. The two then flew together to Florida and talked with players at the rookie symposium, hosted by the non-existent NFLPA instead of the NFL this season.
SB Nation's own Joel Thorman breaks down the news, which was very positive indeed. But, National Football Post writer Andrew Brandt throws a little cold water on the whole process:
As to reports of a deal being close or "85% done", well, that is like being 85% pregnant. There is a deal or no deal. Until then, it is just -- pardon the pun -- labor pains. We await the baby.
I know I'm much more optimistic now than I've been in months, but there's no sure end to this lockout in sight. Hopefully, the owners will come together with players in the next weeks and realize how much damage they'll all take financially if this thing drags out into the season.
Another intersting, lockout link comes from Battle Red Blog and looks at a possible rookie salary scale. I completely agree that capping the top of the draft will lead to a much more fun three days, as teams will be trading a little more freely in that range. On the other hand, those small market teams at the top of the draft may not need to trade that pick away, since the financial hit won't be as great if their player busts.
What I do think will change with that salary scale is teams taking the player they like the most, instead of taking the quarterback. Right now, I think teams feel pressured to take the guy at the higher paid position like a quarterback, over a cornerback or defensive lineman who they may have higher on their draft boards.
http://houston.sbnation.com/2011/6/29/2250578/nfl-lockout-2011-update-theyre-making-progress
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
We can only hope that individual agendas or need for "revenge" by parts of the negotiating machine who feel they have been dissed, are not derailing an ultimate agreement.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Geez! After reading todays crap, it doesn't sound like these dipshits are even close to any kind of deal. Damn shame!
Y'all know what pisses me off the most about this crap? It's both the owners and players stating they're working hard to get it done for the fans then meet only 2 times a week. "We're commited to getting a fair deal done".....Bullshit! This should've been done a long time ago. Two friggin years to get a deal done, yet they wait until the last moment to begin meeting a whopping 2 times a week. Hey now, don't work too hard or you might actually feel what your everyday joe goes through on a weekly basis.
Y'all know what pisses me off the most about this crap? It's both the owners and players stating they're working hard to get it done for the fans then meet only 2 times a week. "We're commited to getting a fair deal done".....Bullshit! This should've been done a long time ago. Two friggin years to get a deal done, yet they wait until the last moment to begin meeting a whopping 2 times a week. Hey now, don't work too hard or you might actually feel what your everyday joe goes through on a weekly basis.
TD
Super Bowl Mascot
What was so bad today? You sure you're not getting the NBA news mixed up?
Meeting 2-3 times a week seems about right. You have to talk to own people as least as much as the other side or it all goes to ****.
I am cautiously optimistic.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Nah, I speaking of the NFL. From what I've read they haven't agreed upon anything they've been speaking about in the media. They still differ on the revenue split as well as the rookie pay scale. Throw in FA, veterans and retired players = Not even close
I've been cautiously optimistic too, but it's beginning to slowly fade away.
TD
Super Bowl Mascot
At this point everything is a bargaining chip as it relates to revenue sharing. Its unlikely you get agreement on anything without agreement on virtually everything. I wouldn't read too much into it.
Pantherstang84
@rolisrgti06
PFT just put a post up advocating that it may be time for the courts to start issuing the rulings they have been holding on to. I agree.
Txn_in_FL
All Pro
THrough this whole thing I have been very "meh", as in if they want to fight over it have at it I don't care. I don't need the damn foosball.
So I happened to be in the library today (Holy ****, I know, they DO exist) and this book caught my eye...
Rather than make me think happy thoughts it just pissed me off. No matter how bad things are there's always football. This damn game gets us all together every Sunday no matter what we think about politics or personal opinions and these douches are screwing with our good time.
They need to figure this out because I'm really close to saying screw the whole thing.
So I happened to be in the library today (Holy ****, I know, they DO exist) and this book caught my eye...
Rather than make me think happy thoughts it just pissed me off. No matter how bad things are there's always football. This damn game gets us all together every Sunday no matter what we think about politics or personal opinions and these douches are screwing with our good time.
They need to figure this out because I'm really close to saying screw the whole thing.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
A long but worthwhile summary "inside look" at the NFL owner-player power struggle. Left me angry, sad and sick.
Sources: ‘Bizarre’ twists stifle NFL labor talks
By Michael Silver, Yahoo! Sports
Three weeks ago, as Roger Goodell and DeMaurice Smith broke bread in a midtown Manhattan restaurant, the leaders of the NFL’s warring labor factions projected a sense of mutual optimism. During a negotiation session earlier that day at a Long Island hotel, Smith and player representatives had suggested a new, “all-revenue” model for splitting up the billions of dollars generated annually by America’s most profitable professional sports league, and Goodell and the owners across the table seemed to embrace the idea enthusiastically.
Late Thursday afternoon, after another frustrating interchange between the two negotiating teams at a Minneapolis-area law firm that ultimately lasted past midnight, it was clear that labor peace – and an end to the lockout imposed by the owners on March 12 – won’t be achieved anywhere close to as seamlessly as numerous reports in recent weeks have suggested. Not only is the very definition of total revenue being debated, but each side also believes the other has tried to manipulate the negotiation process in its favor, and any semblance of trust has all but disappeared.
More From Michael Silver'Baby Bear' brings players pain, results Jun 17, 2011 A little more than two months before the scheduled start of the 2011 regular season, the players and owners are still fighting over money, and quarreling over who deserves the brunt of the blame. One side is speaking Russian, the other Japanese, and that sense of mutual optimism once enjoyed by the NFL commissioner and NFL Players Association executive director has been lost in translation.
“It’s just bizarre right now,” one source on the players’ side said Thursday. “Two weeks ago, I was optimistic. I didn’t realize that we weren’t even close to close. It’s disheartening.”
I’ve talked to key figures from both camps, and others who are more neutral while familiar with the state of negotiations, and I’m still trying to figure out how what one source described as a verbal handshake between players and owners regarding a total-revenue formula earlier this month has degenerated into a montage of mutual finger-pointing.
Those on the players’ negotiating team are convinced that owners have played “bait-and-switch” games with them, belatedly asking for certain items to be excluded from the total-revenue pool after seemingly having agreed to a straight split. They view the recent wave of public optimism suspiciously, believing that owners have purposely tried to create an impression that a deal is near in order to persuade players to accept an offer in the next couple of weeks, thus ensuring that the entire preseason would be saved.
Conversely, owners continue to regard NFLPA attorneys Jeffrey Kessler and James Quinn as divisive forces intent on blowing up any prospective settlement in favor of continuing to pursue legal remedies, including the Brady v. NFL antitrust lawsuit, that could create monumental leverage for the players in the future. The owners trace recent player demands that they regard as unrealistic – i.e. an insistence upon counting sales taxes on tickets as part of total league revenue – to the two attorneys and charge that the players are the ones who’ve attempted to extract extra concessions in recent days.
The heart of the dispute remains how to split up the annual revenue pool, which in 2010 – the final year of the expired collective bargaining agreement – totaled approximately $9.3 billion. Under last year’s formula, the owners took $1 billion off the top in “expense credits,” and the players received 58 percent of the remaining money in salary distributed via a league-wide salary cap.
After opting out of the CBA two years early, the owners demanded an extra $1 billion off the top to cover rising costs such as stadium construction. The players balked, insisting that the owners open their books to convince them that they were struggling economically. The owners refused, and though the two sides made some progress on the expense-credit issue in the days leading up to the CBA’s expiration in March, it was not enough to forestall union decertification, the owner-imposed lockout and the players’ filing of the antitrust lawsuit.
Three weeks ago, shortly before that much ballyhooed Manhattan dinner between Smith and Goodell, a breakthrough occurred. Revisiting a concept they’d proposed shortly after Super Bowl XLV, the players suggested that instead of arguing over expense credits, the two sides should focus on a simple, equitable split of total, unadjusted revenue, or all revenue.
Back in February, the players had proposed a 50-50 all-revenue split, one which would have mirrored their haul from the previous CBA. The players received slightly more than 50 percent of total revenue in 2009 and an average of nearly 52 percent between 2002 and ’09.
At that meeting in Long Island, in an obvious concession, the players offered to accept 48 percent of “all revenue,” a development first reported by ESPN’s Chris Mortensen. In exchange, according to the proposal, they would receive a more favorable salary-cap formula with higher per-team spending minimums than in the past and a provision that actual salary dollars must be spent toward achieving that figure, rather than “dead money” from contracts of players no longer on the team.
And unlike the owners’ final offer before the players walked away from the bargaining table on March 11, the “true up,” or back-end potential of the deal, was also addressed: If league revenues were to exceed projections during the term of the proposed CBA, the players’ split would drop as low as 46.5 percent, but they would still share in the windfall.
Sources on both sides say the owners indicated a willingness to work within that general framework, and there was a sense that other remaining issues, such as a rookie wage scale, a reduction in offseason workouts and a continued desire by owners to expand the regular season to 18 games, would be settled quickly once the revenue-split was solved.
Beginning last week, however, the momentum began to evaporate. What happened? Each side gives a very different story.
The players blame the owners for suddenly insisting upon “expense credits” that would reduce the all-revenue total by a significant margin (described by one source as “several hundred million dollars”), effectively reducing their share to 45 percent.
The players also balked at the owners’ insistence that the proposed “legacy fund” to aid retired players would come out of the salary cap – essentially meaning that the players, and not the league, would be responsible for those costs. Owners also clung to the possibility of adding two games to the regular season as early as 2014, a move to which most players are adamantly opposed.
Owners, meanwhile, claim that certain expense credits were part of the “all revenue” understanding achieved earlier this month and charge that the players are the ones attempting to change the terms. They are also frustrated by players’ insistence that “all revenue” should include a share of money generated by non-football events (such as rock concerts) at team-owned stadiums.
As for the notion that government taxes on game tickets should be included as revenue under the formula, rather than taken off the top, the owners are downright aghast. They claim that such sales-tax payments were not included among the revenue split in the previous CBA and that an accounting miscalculation by Price Waterhouse Coopers, the firm which monitors the salary cap (and which was commissioned by the NFLPA to calculate projected NFL revenues during the current negotiation), has misled the players into demanding the inclusion of those dollars into the formula.
Further, owners see a direct correlation between last week’s reappearances of Kessler (who was absent for Thursday’s sessions) and Quinn in the negotiating room and the negative turn the talks have taken.
Players, meanwhile, view NFL senior vice president and general counsel Peter Rucco as a divisive force who has played games with the revenue numbers in recent days.
As things have degenerated, Goodell and Smith have once again been caught in the crossfire. Players believe that Goodell lacks deal-making authority and hasn’t displayed the necessary leadership to build a consensus among the owners, his de facto employers.
Owners see Smith as someone unable to exert control over Kessler and Quinn, even though, according to a source familiar with negotiations, the NFLPA executive director conspicuously silenced Kessler during a session with owners two weeks ago, ordering him to “stand down.”
For his part Goodell, according to a source, screamed at owners during a meeting in Rosemont, Ill., early last week ago after his update to the group on the progress of negotiations was leaked to Mortensen, telling them such breaches in confidentiality were hurting the negotiation process.
For all of the negativity of recent days, there is still a possibility that the optimistic vibes each side experienced earlier in June can return, and that a deal can be reached in time to allow the league’s preseason opener – the Hall of Fame game between the Chicago Bears and St. Louis Rams in Canton, Ohio – to be played as scheduled on Aug. 7.
After all, once preseason games are canceled, the league will experience a loss in revenue that will make the overall deal less valuable for both sides. For this reason, TV network executives shouldn’t be the only ones who are nervous about this prospect; players and owners, too, should feel a sense of urgency. There is also the possibility that the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit (which is deciding whether the lockout is legal) and federal judge David Doty (assessing how much players were damaged in the “lockout insurance” case against the owners) could issue rulings which create leverage imbalances that change the negotiation landscape and make a settlement more problematic.
Despite the recent negativity, there is cause to remain hopeful about a settlement. Unlike a few months ago, players no longer feel personally affronted by the owners, and the two sides have remained civil and professional in negotiation sessions.
The relationship between Smith and Goodell has also improved, a welcome development given the frostiness that once existed between the two men. On Tuesday night they flew together to Sarasota, Fla., where Goodell – at Smith’s invitation – addressed incoming rookies the following day at a symposium staged by the NFLPA.
Before Goodell spoke to the rookies, he and Smith had another meal together, a breakfast that one source described as “awkwardly comfortable.” They did not talk business, making a mutual effort to steer clear of controversial topics.
By Thursday night, as a marathon negotiation session between the two sides continued in Minneapolis, it was unclear whether Smith and Goodell were communicating on a higher level – or whether they were even speaking the same language.
If their mutual optimism doesn’t return soon, things could start to appear very bleak for anxious NFL fans.
Sources: ‘Bizarre’ twists stifle NFL labor talks
By Michael Silver, Yahoo! Sports
Three weeks ago, as Roger Goodell and DeMaurice Smith broke bread in a midtown Manhattan restaurant, the leaders of the NFL’s warring labor factions projected a sense of mutual optimism. During a negotiation session earlier that day at a Long Island hotel, Smith and player representatives had suggested a new, “all-revenue” model for splitting up the billions of dollars generated annually by America’s most profitable professional sports league, and Goodell and the owners across the table seemed to embrace the idea enthusiastically.
Late Thursday afternoon, after another frustrating interchange between the two negotiating teams at a Minneapolis-area law firm that ultimately lasted past midnight, it was clear that labor peace – and an end to the lockout imposed by the owners on March 12 – won’t be achieved anywhere close to as seamlessly as numerous reports in recent weeks have suggested. Not only is the very definition of total revenue being debated, but each side also believes the other has tried to manipulate the negotiation process in its favor, and any semblance of trust has all but disappeared.
More From Michael Silver'Baby Bear' brings players pain, results Jun 17, 2011 A little more than two months before the scheduled start of the 2011 regular season, the players and owners are still fighting over money, and quarreling over who deserves the brunt of the blame. One side is speaking Russian, the other Japanese, and that sense of mutual optimism once enjoyed by the NFL commissioner and NFL Players Association executive director has been lost in translation.
“It’s just bizarre right now,” one source on the players’ side said Thursday. “Two weeks ago, I was optimistic. I didn’t realize that we weren’t even close to close. It’s disheartening.”
I’ve talked to key figures from both camps, and others who are more neutral while familiar with the state of negotiations, and I’m still trying to figure out how what one source described as a verbal handshake between players and owners regarding a total-revenue formula earlier this month has degenerated into a montage of mutual finger-pointing.
Those on the players’ negotiating team are convinced that owners have played “bait-and-switch” games with them, belatedly asking for certain items to be excluded from the total-revenue pool after seemingly having agreed to a straight split. They view the recent wave of public optimism suspiciously, believing that owners have purposely tried to create an impression that a deal is near in order to persuade players to accept an offer in the next couple of weeks, thus ensuring that the entire preseason would be saved.
Conversely, owners continue to regard NFLPA attorneys Jeffrey Kessler and James Quinn as divisive forces intent on blowing up any prospective settlement in favor of continuing to pursue legal remedies, including the Brady v. NFL antitrust lawsuit, that could create monumental leverage for the players in the future. The owners trace recent player demands that they regard as unrealistic – i.e. an insistence upon counting sales taxes on tickets as part of total league revenue – to the two attorneys and charge that the players are the ones who’ve attempted to extract extra concessions in recent days.
The heart of the dispute remains how to split up the annual revenue pool, which in 2010 – the final year of the expired collective bargaining agreement – totaled approximately $9.3 billion. Under last year’s formula, the owners took $1 billion off the top in “expense credits,” and the players received 58 percent of the remaining money in salary distributed via a league-wide salary cap.
After opting out of the CBA two years early, the owners demanded an extra $1 billion off the top to cover rising costs such as stadium construction. The players balked, insisting that the owners open their books to convince them that they were struggling economically. The owners refused, and though the two sides made some progress on the expense-credit issue in the days leading up to the CBA’s expiration in March, it was not enough to forestall union decertification, the owner-imposed lockout and the players’ filing of the antitrust lawsuit.
Three weeks ago, shortly before that much ballyhooed Manhattan dinner between Smith and Goodell, a breakthrough occurred. Revisiting a concept they’d proposed shortly after Super Bowl XLV, the players suggested that instead of arguing over expense credits, the two sides should focus on a simple, equitable split of total, unadjusted revenue, or all revenue.
Back in February, the players had proposed a 50-50 all-revenue split, one which would have mirrored their haul from the previous CBA. The players received slightly more than 50 percent of total revenue in 2009 and an average of nearly 52 percent between 2002 and ’09.
At that meeting in Long Island, in an obvious concession, the players offered to accept 48 percent of “all revenue,” a development first reported by ESPN’s Chris Mortensen. In exchange, according to the proposal, they would receive a more favorable salary-cap formula with higher per-team spending minimums than in the past and a provision that actual salary dollars must be spent toward achieving that figure, rather than “dead money” from contracts of players no longer on the team.
And unlike the owners’ final offer before the players walked away from the bargaining table on March 11, the “true up,” or back-end potential of the deal, was also addressed: If league revenues were to exceed projections during the term of the proposed CBA, the players’ split would drop as low as 46.5 percent, but they would still share in the windfall.
Sources on both sides say the owners indicated a willingness to work within that general framework, and there was a sense that other remaining issues, such as a rookie wage scale, a reduction in offseason workouts and a continued desire by owners to expand the regular season to 18 games, would be settled quickly once the revenue-split was solved.
Beginning last week, however, the momentum began to evaporate. What happened? Each side gives a very different story.
The players blame the owners for suddenly insisting upon “expense credits” that would reduce the all-revenue total by a significant margin (described by one source as “several hundred million dollars”), effectively reducing their share to 45 percent.
The players also balked at the owners’ insistence that the proposed “legacy fund” to aid retired players would come out of the salary cap – essentially meaning that the players, and not the league, would be responsible for those costs. Owners also clung to the possibility of adding two games to the regular season as early as 2014, a move to which most players are adamantly opposed.
Owners, meanwhile, claim that certain expense credits were part of the “all revenue” understanding achieved earlier this month and charge that the players are the ones attempting to change the terms. They are also frustrated by players’ insistence that “all revenue” should include a share of money generated by non-football events (such as rock concerts) at team-owned stadiums.
As for the notion that government taxes on game tickets should be included as revenue under the formula, rather than taken off the top, the owners are downright aghast. They claim that such sales-tax payments were not included among the revenue split in the previous CBA and that an accounting miscalculation by Price Waterhouse Coopers, the firm which monitors the salary cap (and which was commissioned by the NFLPA to calculate projected NFL revenues during the current negotiation), has misled the players into demanding the inclusion of those dollars into the formula.
Further, owners see a direct correlation between last week’s reappearances of Kessler (who was absent for Thursday’s sessions) and Quinn in the negotiating room and the negative turn the talks have taken.
Players, meanwhile, view NFL senior vice president and general counsel Peter Rucco as a divisive force who has played games with the revenue numbers in recent days.
As things have degenerated, Goodell and Smith have once again been caught in the crossfire. Players believe that Goodell lacks deal-making authority and hasn’t displayed the necessary leadership to build a consensus among the owners, his de facto employers.
Owners see Smith as someone unable to exert control over Kessler and Quinn, even though, according to a source familiar with negotiations, the NFLPA executive director conspicuously silenced Kessler during a session with owners two weeks ago, ordering him to “stand down.”
For his part Goodell, according to a source, screamed at owners during a meeting in Rosemont, Ill., early last week ago after his update to the group on the progress of negotiations was leaked to Mortensen, telling them such breaches in confidentiality were hurting the negotiation process.
For all of the negativity of recent days, there is still a possibility that the optimistic vibes each side experienced earlier in June can return, and that a deal can be reached in time to allow the league’s preseason opener – the Hall of Fame game between the Chicago Bears and St. Louis Rams in Canton, Ohio – to be played as scheduled on Aug. 7.
After all, once preseason games are canceled, the league will experience a loss in revenue that will make the overall deal less valuable for both sides. For this reason, TV network executives shouldn’t be the only ones who are nervous about this prospect; players and owners, too, should feel a sense of urgency. There is also the possibility that the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit (which is deciding whether the lockout is legal) and federal judge David Doty (assessing how much players were damaged in the “lockout insurance” case against the owners) could issue rulings which create leverage imbalances that change the negotiation landscape and make a settlement more problematic.
Despite the recent negativity, there is cause to remain hopeful about a settlement. Unlike a few months ago, players no longer feel personally affronted by the owners, and the two sides have remained civil and professional in negotiation sessions.
The relationship between Smith and Goodell has also improved, a welcome development given the frostiness that once existed between the two men. On Tuesday night they flew together to Sarasota, Fla., where Goodell – at Smith’s invitation – addressed incoming rookies the following day at a symposium staged by the NFLPA.
Before Goodell spoke to the rookies, he and Smith had another meal together, a breakfast that one source described as “awkwardly comfortable.” They did not talk business, making a mutual effort to steer clear of controversial topics.
By Thursday night, as a marathon negotiation session between the two sides continued in Minneapolis, it was unclear whether Smith and Goodell were communicating on a higher level – or whether they were even speaking the same language.
If their mutual optimism doesn’t return soon, things could start to appear very bleak for anxious NFL fans.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The New York Times reports that "resolution" is unlikely before July 10. It seems to me that if the issue is not important enough for the principals to meet through July 4th weekend, then there little reason to think that the deal will be done by July 10. June 30 has come and gone. Time IMO has already run out on organizing a league that has any chance of functioning at an "elite" professional level.
I'm of the opinion that it may take a Judge (Doty for example) telling the parties that if an agreement isn't reached by x date that they will make their ruling. They may also wish to throw in the tidbit that the ruling won't be affected by any future CBA either way.
Unless the Players' lawyers are even stupider than I imagine (not obnoxious and unreasonable, just stupid), it sounds like a bait-and-switch WAS foisted on them by the owners regarding excluded revenue. Despite that, the players aren't being done any favors by Kessler & Co. when the absurd notion of "sharing" tax revenue comes into play.
Unless the Players' lawyers are even stupider than I imagine (not obnoxious and unreasonable, just stupid), it sounds like a bait-and-switch WAS foisted on them by the owners regarding excluded revenue. Despite that, the players aren't being done any favors by Kessler & Co. when the absurd notion of "sharing" tax revenue comes into play.
GP
Go Texans!
I agree. 100%.
They should have had this thing done by end of next week.
But it seems they're just posturing...AGAIN.
I have advocated that the courts should step in and say, "You guys get a deal signed and notarized and blessed by the Pope by x-date or we're coming to huff and puff and blow your house down." Period.
All this "we're working hard" bullshit is just that: Bullshit.
They know what the issues are. They know what's fair. Now sit down and agree on things item-by-item and get it done. This is like a college kid who procrastinates on a lengthy project assignment until one day he realizes that he's never going to make the deadline. For whatever reason, both sides have decided that they exist in their little bubble and the fans can eat poop and like it.
And THAT, I think, is the growing sentiment of people like us. If they don't get anything done by end of July, the season is lost. Because they're going to be so darn worn out from all their "hard work" that they need a few months off to gather enough strength to try and "work hard" again for a deal.
All I can figure is that the players are just wanting a summer off, and they'll tell Smith at the last second to get the deal done. Because I see no other concrete proof here that says they're unable to agree to SOMETHING. ANYTHING. It will never be 100% perfect. But Cheese & Rice, just sign it and move on. You're still making huge coin even if you lost a few percentage points here or there. &^%$#@!
In no particular order...time with family, paintball, fishing, mountain biking, jamming, camping, rafting, skydiving, house projects, and whatever else I feel like doing (just like the off-season).
I might even become a Saturday football fan and write the NFL off for good. I think both sides are being arrogant and unreasonable (for the reasons mentioned by disaacks3 above), so I'm slowly prepping my mentality for the real potential of no pro football for the first time in many years.
I want pro football in my life, but I certainly do not need it. Neither the owners nor the players seem to really give a crap about fans, so I'm starting to come to the conclusion that they do not deserve our loyalty and support.
gary
Hall of Fame
I second this and wish more fans would think like you do and send not just the NFL a message but also the NBA just sports in general.
TD
Super Bowl Mascot
I used to live and breath the Oilers and the NFL until Bud did his thing. Didn't watch any NFL for several years until about the time the Texans were announced. There's a part me that wishes I hadn't gotten back into it (even though its not with 1/10th the passion of before). The NFL simply doesn't give a crap about its fans; only $$$ and product.
I'm now a much bigger college football fan than NFL. If the NCAA would fix its scheduling and playoff format, I'd tell the NFL to kiss my ass for good.
Work on my car....sleep late.... play an old version of madden (keep them from getting a dime) and remember the days when I could stomach watching the NFL before this
, the usual Sunday that I don't have to work in the OS.My addiction will probably bring me back....... but I am sick of this millionaires screaming about they don't make enough BS.
I know it wont happen but it would be a beautiful thing if they do kill this season.....and when they do get everything worked out, no body cares and they have to share a revenue of $0.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
SheTexan
Hall of Fame
Going to church and praying to God above that He will give me the strength to NOT hunt these bastards down and give each and everyone of them a piece of my mind, BOTH SIDES!!! I feel a lawsuit coming on! They have messed with my emotional and mental wellbeing! Football is THERAPY, a way to release anger, built up emotions, etc, etc, etc! I NO longer have that, if they don't settle this crap, so I just might go bonkers and take my anger out on any one of them at any particular time!
( can't you just see this old gma kicking the shiiiiiiiit out of a football player?) Hummmm, sounds like fun!Just kidding folks! BUT, I wonder what they would do IF a class action lawsuit was filed by the fans. Is such a thing even possible? I truly doubt it. Without us they wouldn't have a stuffed bank account in the first place! THey need to remember that!! JMO
gary
Hall of Fame
I have said it before and I'll say it again both sides just poo poo on the hand that feeds them all.Going to church and praying to God above that He will give me the strength to NOT hunt these bastards down and give each and everyone of them a piece of my mind, BOTH SIDES!!! I feel a lawsuit coming on! They have messed with my emotional and mental wellbeing! Football is THERAPY, a way to release anger, built up emotions, etc, etc, etc! I NO longer have that, if they don't settle this crap, so I just might go bonkers and take my anger out on any one of them at any particular time!
Just kidding folks! BUT, I wonder what they would do IF a class action lawsuit was filed by the fans. Is such a thing even possible? I truly doubt it. Without us they wouldn't have a stuffed bank account in the first place! THey need to remember that!! JMO
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
There. Fixed that for ya.
GP
Go Texans!
I think I will do all home games of my alma mater West Texas A&M University, which I do anyways, but I'll even consider traveling and watching them play their away games too.
I used to really watch every single TTU football game, until they got stoopid and canned Mike Leach. By the way, I think I'm going to try and go to his book signing (book entitled Swing Your Sword) in Lubbock July 19th. I follow him on facebook, and anybody can--He recently signed up and he had about 4,000+ fans within a 48 hour time period. He posts photos and announcements. I think he's a brilliant guy--A thinker, a gambler, a rogue. Tech was dumb.
Therefore, I don't know what Division 1 team to follow on Saturdays. TCU? I like their style. I like their attitude. Wherever Leach goes in a year or so, I'l probably follow that team.
I'l have football somehow. Not all is lost, and it might just be a good thing to have a one-year sabbatical from Bob McNair's brand of NFL ball.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The NFL evidently realized that "taking the weekend off" has elicited a negative response from the fans. So what do they do...........rev up their PR spin machine specialist.
GP
Go Texans!
Yeah? Well I shoveled THIS gem to Mr. Fancy Pants just now:
If he returns a reply, I welcome it. You guys know I'm game for a flame war, so I hope he says something back. I'll be the seasoned comedian on stage who pwns the heckler and makes him wish he had never been born.
Man it felt good to post that tweet. Cathartic. Sometimes you write things down and delete it rather than send it. Yeah, well I blasted this AND sent it out on twitter in about 10 seconds max.
I'm tired of this crap. Blah blah blah, shovel crap, blah blah blah, piss on our heads, blah blah blah, etc., etc.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Surprise, surprise. Look what is following up the twitter report.
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-07-02/nfl-spokesman-no-holiday-down-time-for-negotiators#ixzz1QyyjQUve
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-07-02/nfl-spokesman-no-holiday-down-time-for-negotiators#ixzz1QyyjQUve
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
GP
Go Texans!
Well I sure hate that they're now working over the weekend.
I mean, gee whiz...this has just crept up on everyone out of nowhere. They're basically doing the same kind of work that people who are hit with nuclear attacks and flooding and tornado damage have to deal with. Bless their hearts.
Wormy little pricks. Just come out and say, "Both sides have agreed that a draft will be ready for final review by x-date...and then hopefully the final deal will be signed within a few days either side of y-date." But hell no, all of 'em gotta' play this game of only saying "hard work is being done," and "still lots to do," as if they've all been given the same template of patented responses they can make to the fans out here.
I think my glycemic index is jacked up. I'm murderous right now, figuratively speaking. Of course.
I mean, gee whiz...this has just crept up on everyone out of nowhere. They're basically doing the same kind of work that people who are hit with nuclear attacks and flooding and tornado damage have to deal with. Bless their hearts.
Wormy little pricks. Just come out and say, "Both sides have agreed that a draft will be ready for final review by x-date...and then hopefully the final deal will be signed within a few days either side of y-date." But hell no, all of 'em gotta' play this game of only saying "hard work is being done," and "still lots to do," as if they've all been given the same template of patented responses they can make to the fans out here.
I think my glycemic index is jacked up. I'm murderous right now, figuratively speaking. Of course.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Well I sure hate that they're now working over the weekend.
I mean, gee whiz...this has just crept up on everyone out of nowhere. They're basically doing the same kind of work that people who are hit with nuclear attacks and flooding and tornado damage have to deal with. Bless their hearts.
Wormy little pricks. Just come out and say, "Both sides have agreed that a draft will be ready for final review by x-date...and then hopefully the final deal will be signed within a few days either side of y-date." But hell no, all of 'em gotta' play this game of only saying "hard work is being done," and "still lots to do," as if they've all been given the same template of patented responses they can make to the fans out here.
I think my glycemic index is jacked up. I'm murderous right now, figuratively speaking. Of course.
Let's see you turn it from figuratively to literally...........Have another cookie!
GP
Go Texans!
Let's see you turn it from figuratively to literally...........Have another cookie!
You got it, chief!
badboy
Hall of Fame
Not sure if valid but infoI heard on 1560 am radio this morning. Some guy and never got name but he was a guest not a regular said only small details left as revenue sharing has been resolved. "Needs 22 of owners to sign off on it and 20 have verbally committed". I just caught the end and never hear name or credentials if any. Stated, "deal ready to sign in two weeks".
Yeah, maybe but I've been hearing "two weeks or July 15th" for weeks. Anyway posted for what it is worth if anything.
Yeah, maybe but I've been hearing "two weeks or July 15th" for weeks. Anyway posted for what it is worth if anything.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
GP
Go Texans!
Oh my.
Jerruh done gone an' tipped his hand.
I don't think a date would have been set UNLESS! this is one of those brilliant P.R. moves by Jerry Jones to get fans all hyped up in anticipation of a signed CBA deal...only to be forced to withdraw the date when July 29th hits and he has to tell the fans how awfully bad he feels that the players are prolonging this ordeal.
At zis point, I truzt nuzzing!