All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

[Uncle Rico]

A simple two second search would have saved you that...bless your heart

true, if i had the motivation to know the specifics, of which i dont because I knew he was no spring chicken, by the time Bridgewater is 26 he'll have 5 years of football under his belt. Just some levity on my part with his age.

 

[Linca]

We should really trade down our top draft to someone like the Browns or a team that really needs a quarterback. They would pay a LOT to have Bridgewater and we would have multiple picks to address the imbalances we have on both sides of the ball. We need an RT, possibly a guard, a corner or safety and linebackers. If Keenum continues to improve and doesn't have another horrible game like he had against the Jags, I feel drafting another QB is just a knee jerk reaction to a bad season.

 

[stingray]

fair enough...but we all know folks would be blowing their tops on this board if the Texans took him with Bridgewater, Clowney...& to a lesser extent Mariota still on the board.

Even still, us locked in at the #1 overall pick at the moment pretty much takes Matthews completely off the table in terms of the draft....he's still got a chance to change that, but it's got to start now...this week with a win over Jax.

I actually think the Texans are going to win 2 out their last 4 remaining games. Just a hunch. That would leave them at 4-12, right around the 5th pick probably. seems like you want Mathews but I would prefer Anthony Barr. Just a difference of opinion, and I'm sure the board will be split on who they should take also.

 

[Uncle Rico]

We should really trade down our top draft to someone like the Browns or a team that really needs a quarterback. They would pay a LOT to have Bridgewater and we would have multiple picks to address the imbalances we have on both sides of the ball. We need an RT, possibly a guard, a corner or safety and linebackers. If Keenum continues to improve and doesn't have another horrible game like he had against the Jags, I feel drafting another QB is just a knee jerk reaction to a bad season.

A very sensible idea, and if the Browns want to offer up 3 first round picks then of course you do that, but I think Washington screwed that up for everyone for the foreseeable future.

 

[Number19]

Mike Munchak - 8th overall. Bruce Mathews, 9th overall.

I also think we'll win a game or two, starting Thursday night, and so missing out on the Bridgewater derby.

 

[Uncle Rico]

I have seen bridgewater play yet.

Article compares him to maybe Aron Rogers
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...breaking-down-louisville-qb-teddy-bridgewater

read the breakdown that the battle red boys wrote up ... it will make you feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside.

 

[Uncle Rico]

Mike Munchak - 8th overall. Bruce Mathews, 9th overall.

I also think we'll win a game or two, starting Thursday night, and so missing out on the Bridgewater derby.

hopefully, that might stave off a full out civil war around here, and the value for a different position would present itself. No way in hell do you select a RT,G,NT,LB,CB,DT with the 1st pick.

 

[Mr teX]

Declare it all you want, some people just disagree with you. I happen to think saying that he is 0-6 is a terrible way to decide the worth of a QB in his first 6 starts, especially under these circumstances and the fact that you have 4 more starts to come to a more educated conclusion.

I think Case has had fine games and a couple bad games and I'll think he'll keep improving and become a solid starter. The guys has never even had a camp as the starter. If the Texans FO honestly think they can draft a franchise QB with that first pick, that's hard to pass up. Teams struggle to find franchise guys for decades but it's far more of a crapshoot than this board seems to want to acknoweldge. How many first round QBs have failed to pan out?

I don't want to see them reaching for a QB when there are so many other areas of need as well.

I've got no problem with people disagreeing with me.....it's not the 1st time & it certainly wont be the last...but for people to sit up here and say 6 starts isn't enough & he needs more time & how they keep coming up with every excuse in the book for him when Yates wasn't given that benefit of the doubt......I just find that hypocritical.

I-cak put up the stats and they do favor Keenum, but not by much....not enough to not come to about the same conclusion as we did about Yates in nearly the same amount of time.

I've said all along that we need a qb prospect taken early in the draft to be brought in regardless of what Keenum does....thus far, he's done nothing to change my mind in that regard...especially with him not even having led us to a win. Like it or not, that's what matters the most & we judged Schaub off of his big game blunders for years on this very statistic.

I'm not even doing that with Keenum. i'm just asking him to find ways to win games....even if they don't mean anything....find ways to win games if you haven't fully mastered the pocket just yet. VY was able to do it as a rookie & 2nd year player..Tebow was able to do it for a stretch. If he's truly as special as some here believe, He should be able to do that. Show me something in these games to make me believe he can be that guy. That's not too much to ask.

 

[steelbtexan]

Case Keenum will be 27 years old next year. How much leeway is he going to get? Are people prepared to wait until he's 30 before pulling the plug? Or pass up what MANY (professional analysts, sportswriters, scouts etc...) feel is a no brainer in Bridgewater if the 1st pick is had? I'm sure some of you guys being machinists,sales directors,production managers; have watched a ton a football and its nice to speculate and blurt out an opinion, but I'll have to tip the scales in the favor of the people who get paid to speculate, instead of doing it as a hobby.

I have yet to find a negative assessment on Bridgewater. He's as close to a lock as possible for a QB. Do some research, stop trying to make him seem like some scrub who doesnt have a chance to succeed.

What is easier to address via free agency ... a franchise QB or some linemen? People act like this team needs a few all pro guys on the OLine for it to become a good unit again, all this team needs is a few COMPETENT linemen to make everything look much,much better. the same for the defensive side, but this team will have high picks in each round, they should be able to land no less than 3 starters in the draft for next years team not counting free agents.

I cant sit through another debacle of a season going on a hunch that Keenum will get better, next years QB class, or the year after that will not have the talent that this year has, and contrary to popular belief, a 1st round talent is not the same as a 3rd round talent. Best available player by importance of position. simple as that. Keenum will have to play at a Pro Bowl level for me to even give him the benefit of the doubt, I've seen enough of the same blunders to not want those headaches next year. Blame the line, the coaches and the defense all you want, at some point Keenum is going to have to prove to people HE can win a game, and thats all that matters. Feel good story be damned.

I get that you're a Bridgewater guy. I'm not, he doesn't have the elite arm strength I want in my QB. How much better is Bridgewater than say Bortles (Who's team beat Bridgewater a couple of weeks ago.) Mettenberger/Manziel etc.... Guys who have done it against elite competition?

I do believe Bridgewater will be a good not great pro, Andy Dalton like. BTW, the 2015 draft will be loaded at QB. Winston/Petty/Hogan/Hundley, all of who are as good as or better than Bridgewater, IMHO I'm in the give Keenum a full camp and let him start next yr. If he cant do it then draft one of the above mentioned QB's in 2015. I'm no UH fanboy either. I'm just not that impressed with this yrs QB class.

Give me Clowney/Barr depending on the type of defense the new staff runs and a trade back into the 1st rd and pick Bortles or Mettenberger if you just have to draft a QB this yr.

Have you checked out Bortles? He plays alot like Bridgewater. Check him out and tell me what you think. He has a stronger arm and is just as mobile as Bridgewater.

 

[Linca]

I've got no problem with people disagreeing with me.....it's not the 1st time & it certainly wont be the last...but for people to sit up here and say 6 starts isn't enough & he needs more time & how they keep coming up with every excuse in the book for him when Yates wasn't given that benefit of the doubt......I just find that hypocritical.

I-cak put up the stats and they do favor Keenum, but not by much....not enough to not come to about the same conclusion as we did about Yates in nearly the same amount of time.

I've said all along that we need a qb prospect taken early in the draft to be brought in regardless of what Keenum does....thus far, he's done nothing to change my mind in that regard...especially with him not even having led us to a win. Like it or not, that's what matters the most & we judged Schaub off of his big game blunders for years on this very statistic.

I'm not even doing that with Keenum. i'm just asking him to find ways to win games....even if they don't mean anything....find ways to win games if you haven't fully mastered the pocket just yet. VY was able to do it as a rookie & 2nd year player..Tebow was able to do it for a stretch. He should be able to do that. Show me something in these games to make me believe he can be that guy. That's not too much to ask.

Why are you under the impression that we NEED to draft a quarterback in the first or second round no matter what? Can you see any of these guys outperforming Case with this horrible offensive line? I don't think they can, I'm not a huge Marriota or Bridgewater guy but if you draft a 1st round QB just to have him sit on the bench or struggle like Case has been then it's a total waste of a pick. Especially when we have glaring issues that need to be fixed.

If you were to trade down the draft spot for multiple picks, you can address these issues we have on defense and our offensive line. Surely you must concede that our secondary is in a desperate need of upgrading and you can't just go out and find great corners, safeties or linebackers on the street.

The only thing you need to watch is how awful our defense is against bottom tier talent. We constantly make these no name quarterbacks tear up our defense hard (see Oakland). Our linebackers can't even GET to the quarterback if we blitz them.

I'm all for drafting a quarterback if it's necessary but you have to give Case more time to develop, it's the same with any quarterback you put in there. They don't come out of the box and have all the answers. If Case completely sucks it up the rest of the way then, it just didn't work out and we need a quarterback. But right now with what we can get for trading down our top draft pick, I don't think the quarterback position should be our focus.

 

[Tolar's Ghost]

Bridgewater...Smidgewater (to borrow from my late uncle).

Do your homework and you can get a good QB without reaching in the first round, or even the second round for that matter.

And hire Darrell Bevell away from the Seahawks as head coach. Because if the Texans don't do it, some other team will.

 

[76Texan]

And when the game came down to the final ticks of the clock? Fail.

I know it wasn't all his fault, but he didn't overcome either

What do you expect from your own 5 yd line and 7 ticks left on the clock?

On the previous drive, Dre dropped a ball and Graham dropped a ball.
Myers & Jones messed up their protection assignment, and Keenum had to throw the ball away. What's a QB to do under those situations?
Can Manning or Brees or Brady do anything about that?

 

[Tolar's Ghost]

UH fan here. We need a quarterback.

Come on -- O'Korn is just a freshman.

 

[Mr teX]

Why are you under the impression that we NEED to draft a quarterback in the first or second round no matter what? Can you see any of these guys outperforming Case with this horrible offensive line? I don't think they can, I'm not a huge Marriota or Bridgewater guy but if you draft a 1st round QB just to have him sit on the bench or struggle like Case has been then it's a total waste of a pick. Especially when we have glaring issues that need to be fixed.

If you were to trade down the draft spot for multiple picks, you can address these issues we have on defense and our offensive line. Surely you must concede that our secondary is in a desperate need of upgrading and you can't just go out and find great corners, safeties or linebackers on the street.

The only thing you need to watch is how awful our defense is against bottom tier talent. We constantly make these no name quarterbacks tear up our defense hard (see Oakland). Our linebackers can't even GET to the quarterback if we blitz them.

I'm all for drafting a quarterback if it's necessary but you have to give Case more time to develop, it's the same with any quarterback you put in there. They don't come out of the box and have all the answers. If Case completely sucks it up the rest of the way then, it just didn't work out and we need a quarterback. But right now with what we can get for trading down our top draft pick, I don't think the quarterback position should be our focus.

The position needs to be solidified. Opening up the position to serious competition goes a long way in helping that cause. Bringing in serious candidates to compete also helps with that. Obviously, there are good prospects for that in this upcoming draft...we need to take one of those guys in the 1 of the first 3 rounds.

No more bringing in late round picks like Alex Brink, Dave Ragone & BJ Simmons to "compete" with the incumbent.

No more retred bums like Leinart, Grossman & McGee brought in thru FA to "compete." with the incumbent.

No more undrafted FA projects like Jamal Lord, Case Keenum & Collin Klein to "compete" with the incumbent.


Open it up to serious competition with serious prospects to start with a new HC and let the best man win.

Chip Kelly did It with philly this year...it appears they may have their guy.

Carroll did it with Seattle last year.....it appears they may have their guy.

GB did it in Favre's last years...they got their guy.

 

[steelbtexan]

The position needs to be solidified. Opening up the position to serious competition goes a long way in helping that cause. Bringing in serious candidates to compete also helps with that. Obviously, there are good prospects for that in this upcoming draft...we need to take one of those guys in the 1 of the first 3 rounds.

No more bringing in late round picks like Alex Brink, Dave Ragone & BJ Simmons to "compete" with the incumbent.

No more retred bums like Leinart, Grossman & McGee brought in thru FA to "compete." with the incumbent.

No more undrafted FA projects like Jamal Lord, Case Keenum & Collin Klein to "compete" with the incumbent.


Open it up to serious competition with serious prospects to start with a new HC and let the best man win.

Chip Kelly did It with philly this year...it appears they may have their guy.

Carroll did it with Seattle last year.....it appears they may have their guy.

GB did it in Favre's last years...they got their guy.

In other words you have a problem with the competition Gary brings in to compete for the QB position. But Gary's a QB guru.

 

[Tolar's Ghost]

...Seattle...may have their guy (at QB)...

Ya think?

 

[Number19]

...Show me something in these games to make me believe he can be that guy. That's not too much to ask.

I'm not 100% certain about Keenum, but I'm also not behind the idea of taking a QB with the first pick. I'd accept it,if it happened.

But what do you mean, "Show me something". I thought I did with post #852. That four possession exchange of football between Brady and Keenum was absolutely outstanding. And please don't try to convince me that when Brady first put his team in the lead, and the second time, that Keenum's comebacks did not represent "pressure football' as one fellow asserted.

 

[bah007]

Ya think?

Carroll also got immediately crushed for giving him the job over Matt Flynn. Didn't take long for people to come around though...

 

[Linca]

The position needs to be solidified. Opening up the position to serious competition goes a long way in helping that cause. Bringing in serious candidates to compete also helps with that. Obviously, there are good prospects for that in this upcoming draft...we need to take one of those guys in the 1 of the first 3 rounds.

No more bringing in late round picks like Alex Brink, Dave Ragone & BJ Simmons to "compete" with the incumbent.

No more retred bums like Leinart, Grossman & McGee brought in thru FA to "compete." with the incumbent.

No more undrafted FA projects like Jamal Lord, Case Keenum & Collin Klein to "compete" with the incumbent.


Open it up to serious competition with serious prospects to start with a new HC and let the best man win.

Chip Kelly did It with philly this year...it appears they may have their guy.

Carroll did it with Seattle last year.....it appears they may have their guy.

GB did it in Favre's last years...they got their guy.

You don't solidify positions by having them compete on a practice field or on paper. The only way to test what they're made of is to play them on the field in games. There are plenty of first round quarterbacks that have competed and beat the competition just to go out on the field and fail miserably. At some point you need to start worrying about the other positions on your team and build around that person.

If Case looks bad for the rest of the season, draft a quarterback. If he improves and looks good for the rest of the year, then we need to stick with him and fix the myriad of issues our team has.

I just don't want to give up the first overall pick on a huge unknown, if we trade that for multiple picks I feel it would go a long way in helping our team. Especially with the salary cap issues we have.

What we need is a serious secondary and serious linebackers, and a RT that can function.


Just look what happens when we play horrible teams with no offense and we end up giving up multiple touchdowns. What are we going to do as a defense if Cushing comes back and he's not the same, our pass rush is non existent, JJ might be gone in 2 years, our O-line is horrible. Aside from JJo, JJ and Cushing everyone is mediocre at best. We need to start bringing in some young talent.

 

[bah007]

I think we absolutely draft a QB this year. Case's performance the rest of the season just determines which pick we use.

 

[DocBar]

I haven't been in this thread for a while, but I did call Keenum's regression once teams got some film on him and made adjustments. That said, I don;t think that's the biggest reason for his regression. IMO, it's because Kubiak is putting him under center much more often.

Keenum was playing very well from the pistol, with the occasional under center play. Since he's gone to mostly under center, his play has fallen off. I'm not sure why Kubiak is playing him under center more, but it's not working. If Kubiak was " being smart about it", He would call more plays from the pistol and try to win some games. As it is, it seems like Kubiak is actively sacrificing his job to see if Keenum can play under center. If it were me, I'd mix in the under center plays at a lot slower rate. Let Keenum sling it from a comfort zone rather than force him to learn playing under center the hard way.

Sorry if I'm rehashing things already hashed out.

 

[Mr teX]

You don't solidify positions by having them compete on a practice field or on paper. The only way to test what they're made of is to play them on the field in games. There are plenty of first round quarterbacks that have competed and beat the competition just to go out on the field and fail miserably. At some point you need to start worrying about the other positions on your team and build around that person.

If Case looks bad for the rest of the season, draft a quarterback. If he improves and looks good for the rest of the year, then we need to stick with him and fix the myriad of issues our team has.

I just don't want to give up the first overall pick on a huge unknown, if we trade that for multiple picks I feel it would go a long way in helping our team. Especially with the salary cap issues we have.

What we need is a serious secondary and serious linebackers, and a RT that can function.


Just look what happens when we play horrible teams with no offense and we end up giving up multiple touchdowns. What are we going to do as a defense if Cushing comes back and he's not the same, our pass rush is non existent, JJ might be gone in 2 years, our O-line is horrible. Aside from JJo, JJ and Cushing everyone is mediocre at best. We need to start bringing in some young talent.

This is silly...not only b/c whomever we pick in the draft for whatever position is a huge unknown risk. You make It seem as though any other position we pick is lock to be a stud...nope.....the same odds of a bust at those positions as well.

Also, people keep talking about trading down...you need a partner to do that....you also need the right deal to do that.

Also, I don't believe I said pick a qb in the 1st...I said in 1 of the first 3 rounds...and the only way we pick a qb in the 1st imo is if we wind up staying locked in with the 1st overall pick. You then have to seriously consider taking a qb......only bridgewater imo. Aside from that, I'm perfectly ok with waiting to take a qb in the 2nd or 3rd so long as we get a serious prospect in here along with some good solid FA qb's to really push to win the job.

 

[Linca]

This is silly...not only b/c whomever we pick in the draft for whatever position is a huge unknown risk. You make It seem as though any other position we pick is lock to be a stud...nope.....the same odds of a bust at those positions as well.

Also, people keep talking about trading down...you need a partner to do that....you also need the right deal to do that.

Also, I don't believe I said pick a qb in the 1st...I said in 1 of the first 3 rounds...and the only way we pick a qb in the 1st imo is if we wind up staying locked in with the 1st overall pick. You then have to seriously consider taking a qb......only bridgewater imo. Aside from that, I'm perfectly ok with waiting to take a qb in the 2nd or 3rd so long as we get a serious prospect in here along with some good solid FA qb's to really push to win the job.

It's not really silly considering quarterbacks are the most valuable draft pick. There are teams that are in a desperate need of a top rated quarterback who will give a great deal for it. The Browns, and Jets are some teams that NEED a quarterback more than anything else.

I guess I just see a bunch of things that need to be addressed, and I honestly don't see any of these quarterbacks out perform Keenum right off the bat.

But historically, top drafted QB's work out far less than other first round positional players.

 

[leebigeztx]

It's not really silly considering quarterbacks are the most valuable draft pick. There are teams that are in a desperate need of a top rated quarterback who will give a great deal for it. The Browns, and Jets are some teams that NEED a quarterback more than anything else.

I guess I just see a bunch of things that need to be addressed, and I honestly don't see any of these quarterbacks out perform Keenum right off the bat.

But historically, top drafted QB's work out far less than other first round positional players.

So the jets and browns really ned a qb,but the texans don't? Explain that one to me

 

[EVOLVIST]

Stupid Colts for hanging onto Peyton after his 1st 6 games, 1-5 record, 6 TD, 14 picks. The Lions are morons too I guess for hanging onto Stafford after his 1-5 start, 5 TD and 12 picks. Not to mention Flacco's 2 TD, 7 pick start (though he did win 3 games but his D gave up more than 13 points just twice). I know, probably apples to oranges, huh? I mean that's the go to excuse when you're argument is ignorant, right?

I'm sorry to say that you, or anyone who feels as you do, haven't got anyone's career figured out after 6 freaking games. And neither do those who think Case could be the guy. You have to learn to play NFL football. It isn't like anything you've ever played before. That's why so many college "can't misses" fail at this level. Peyton Manning struggled at the start of his career. Just like Stafford, Flacco, and Luck (7 TD, 7 INT in his 1st 6) did and many, many more who've had decent to great careers, and like Case (8 TD, 3 picks) is doing now.

The more games he plays, defenses he sees, maybe he learns how to play this game and turns out to be something special....or maybe he doesn't. But 6 games in isn't going to tell you jack crap, unless he's just somebody who can't make throws and looks lost out there. That hasn't been the case for Case. We've seen him make throws, seen him make plays. We've also seen him make those "rookie" mistakes as well. Comes with learning the game. He's not out there completing passes to the ground or slamming his face into someone's butt.

He'll have 10 NFL games under his belt going into next year's camp. And if he makes the same kind of progress in camp #3 as he did in camp #2, he just might turn out to be something. But 6 games is not going to tell anyone what his career will be.

Best answer yet (no disrespect to anybody else)...but I don't see how anybody can see look into their crystal ball and make a case for Case one way or the other given the circumstances...and there are a sh!t ton of circumstances.

I'm all for drafting a QB high...rounds 1-3...and that's going to depend on a lot of circumstances, as well. Too many for any of us to peg at the moment.

But is there anyone among you that can say with a straight face, that besides the coaches and/or the FO, that the most important aspects of football, i.e. both sides of the trenches and QB needn't to be addressed in some form or another in this coming draft and FA period? Big time.

 

[Linca]

So the jets and browns really ned a qb,but the texans don't? Explain that one to me

I'm saying they don't need to draft a QB in the first few rounds, my explanation has already been stated in previous posts. We have to start focusing on positions that are playing HORRIBLY.

 

[leebigeztx]

I get that you're a Bridgewater guy. I'm not, he doesn't have the elite arm strength I want in my QB. How much better is Bridgewater than say Bortles (Who's team beat Bridgewater a couple of weeks ago.) Mettenberger/Manziel etc.... Guys who have done it against elite competition?

I do believe Bridgewater will be a good not great pro, Andy Dalton like. BTW, the 2015 draft will be loaded at QB. Winston/Petty/Hogan/Hundley, all of who are as good as or better than Bridgewater, IMHO I'm in the give Keenum a full camp and let him start next yr. If he cant do it then draft one of the above mentioned QB's itn 2015. I'm no UH fanboy either. I'm just not that impressed with this yrs QB class.

Give me Clowney/Barr depending on the type of defense the new staff runs and a trade back into the 1st rd and pick Bortles or Mettenberger if you just have to draft a QB this yr.

Have you checked out Bortles? He plays alot like Bridgewater. Check him out and tell me what you think. He has a stronger arm and is just as mobile as Bridgewater.

Name your top 10 qbs in the nfl and I will bet u 1 or 2 had elite arm talent. All the top nfl qbs have an nfl arm,that's it. Manning,brees,rodgers,luck all had nfl arms,that's all. Big ben,flacco,cutler,rg3,stafford have elite arms. They said brady didn't even have a nfl arm. Why you keep comparing bridgewater to dalton is beyond me. Then you bring up bortles, who struggled with a 2 win team. So what cf beat louisville? What does that have to do with translating to the next level? I guess since Tee Martin beat florida and won a championship,that made him a better pro prospect than peyton,right?

 

[leebigeztx]

I'm saying they don't need to draft a QB in the first few rounds, my explanation has already been stated in previous posts. We have to start focusing on positions that are playing HORRIBLY.

So,you think a qb with 0 wins is playing good and not a problem? I'm sure cleveland got some good talent when they traded out of julio jones draft. I do know this,none of those picks aren't nearly as good as julio. Nfl is about impact players,not solid guys especially up high. I'm sure the packers like aj hawk,but that dude was drafted 5th and has yet to make a probowl. Ferguson is a good lt,yet their qbs are among the most sacked and now their an avg run team. Btw, andrew luck just won the division in his 2nd season. Who is his lt?

 

[stingray]

Drafting a qb early can set you up for great success in the future ala Big Ben, Eli manning, flacco, matt ryan, Luck. But you better hit on the pick because if you dont then your franchise will be set back for years...e.g. david carr, tim couch, jamarcuss russell, ponder, gabbert, sanchez..etc.

 

[steelbtexan]

Name your top 10 qbs in the nfl and I will bet u 1 or 2 had elite arm talent. All the top nfl qbs have an nfl arm,that's it. Manning,brees,rodgers,luck all had nfl arms,that's all. Big ben,flacco,cutler,rg3,stafford have elite arms. They said brady didn't even have a nfl arm. Why you keep comparing bridgewater to dalton is beyond me. Then you bring up bortles, who struggled with a 2 win team. So what cf beat louisville? What does that have to do with translating to the next level? I guess since Tee Martin beat florida and won a championship,that made him a better pro prospect than peyton,right?

Rodgers/Ben/Wilson/Flacco/Eli/Kaepernick/Rivers all have great or well above avg arms and have been close to or won SB's. BTW you cant have a weak arm and thrin the wind and snow like Brady does. Does Bridgewater have a good enough arm to play in the NFL> yes Can he improve his arm strength> of course he can. Are there serious questions about his game that need to be answered before picking Bridgewater 1-1? Sure there are.

Give me 2 players at the 2 most important positions on the field Pass rusher to pair with Watt for the next decade Clowney and a QB if you must take one this yr. (I wouldn't) Mettenberger, who has a great arm and has made great strides in a Cameron's pro offense this yr and would be more day 1 pro ready than any QB in this draft. Think Ben and Flacco their rookie yrs. A huge upgrade over what's currently on the Texans roster.

Who would you consider comparing Bridgewater too? I've only watched 4 or 5 of his games over the past 2 yrs and obviously you've watched more of his games than I have.

 

[Linca]

So,you think a qb with 0 wins is playing good and not a problem? I'm sure cleveland got some good talent when they traded out of julio jones draft. I do know this,none of those picks aren't nearly as good as julio. Nfl is about impact players,not solid guys especially up high. I'm sure the packers like aj hawk,but that dude was drafted 5th and has yet to make a probowl. Ferguson is a good lt,yet their qbs are among the most sacked and now their an avg run team. Btw, andrew luck just won the division in his 2nd season. Who is his lt?

You are comparing Bridgewater to Andrew Luck who is 10 times better than any QB available in this draft. Bridgewater struggles against horrible defenses. Just look at UH, Memphis, Rutgers, vs Louisville. These aren't good defenses man, their conference is a total joke. He had a solid win vs Florida last year in the Sugar Bowl but he has no impressed me at all. I don't see a franchise QB in this draft.

Don't just look at the losses and say he sucks. Look at the performance he has had, some good some bad. But it is to be expected of a young player. If he plays like crap for the rest of the year then I'm 100% with you, but right now if he keeps improving this team can fill other holes rather than another QB controversy.

 

[leebigeztx]

Drafting a qb early can set you up for great success in the future ala Big Ben, Eli manning, flacco, matt ryan, Luck. But you better hit on the pick because if you dont then your franchise will be set back for years...e.g. david carr, tim couch, jamarcuss russell, ponder, gabbert, sanchez..etc.

This is true for any top pick. Do you think the dolphins would be in better shape had they drafted matt ryan vs jake long? Now mind you, long was an all pro b4 the injuries,but matt ryan plays qb. Now, I'm not really a matt ryan fan,but the guy has like the 3rd most wins since he's entered the nfl despite not having a top 10 defense not a great o-line.

Remember when people said aaron curry and robert gallery were safe picks? People thought curry should go #1 even though he didn't rush the passer as a lb. Gallery was suppose to be the next great big ten o-lineman. Anytime you miss high in the draft it hurts your squad. The only way it doesn't hurt as much is if the lower rounds play much higher than their drafted position.

 

[leebigeztx]

Rodgers/Ben/Wilson/Flacco/Eli/Kaepernick/Rivers all have great or well above avg arms and have been close to or won SB's. BTW you cant have a weak arm and thrin the wind and snow like Brady does. Does Bridgewater have a good enough arm to play in the NFL> yes Can he improve his arm strength> of course he can. Are there serious questions about his game that need to be answered before picking Bridgewater 1-1? Sure there are.
I
Give me 2 players at the 2 most important positions on the field Pass rusher to pair with Watt for the next decade Clowney and a QB if you must take one this yr. (I wouldn't) Mettenberger, who has a great arm and has made great strides in a Cameron's pro offense this yr and would be more day 1 pro ready than any QB in this draft. Think Ben and Flacco their rookie yrs. A huge upgrade over what's currently on the Texans roster.

Who would you consider comparing Bridgewater too? I've only watched 4 or 5 of his games over the past 2 yrs and obviously you've watched more of his games than I have.

Bridgewater arm is on par with rivers,rodgers,manning coming out of college. Is he big ben,flacco,cutler,rg3,stafford? No,but its above avg, and strong enough to make plays from different platforms to every part of the field. This is not just my opinion, go read what others have said about him. His football iq,poise,pocket presence along with his physical skill level makes him the best prospect in the draft regardless of position.

 

[TheMatrix31]

http://hopesweethome.com/soul-behind-the-11/

Really cool read about Aaron Murray. I don't know much about him football-wise as I don't really watch college football, but I'd love to have a man like this one on my team.

 

[dalemurphy]

Drafting a qb early can set you up for great success in the future ala Big Ben, Eli manning, flacco, matt ryan, Luck. But you better hit on the pick because if you dont then your franchise will be set back for years...e.g. david carr, tim couch, jamarcuss russell, ponder, gabbert, sanchez..etc.

No longer true! All of your examples occurred before the new CBA. The top pick this year will get a deal around 5/$25mill... Those guys you mentioned all received contracts at/ above7/$50 million... Very different situation.

 

[2012Champs]

No longer true! All of your examples occurred before the new CBA. The top pick this year will get a deal around 5/$25mill... Those guys you mentioned all received contracts at/ above7/$50 million... Very different situation.

very true I was just going to post the same msr

 

[Rey]

Someone needs to tell me why he can win a singular game. I mean, as much flack as he takes on this board,look at what vince young took over as a rookie.

Titans were 3-13, got rid of the guy,volek, signed collins ,and they were 0-6. Even the most avid followers of football have a hard time naming skill players on that team,yet they go 8-2 as a starter.

Luck,rg3,and wilson took over 2,6,and 7 win teams,not a 12 win team and all won double digit games. In the case of luck and rg3,they both had bad olines and piss poor defenses.So with all that said,how come this college football winner,can't win a game?

The answer is easy. As big of an impact that the qb can have on a team, there are other factors that go into wins and losses.

You think tebow is a good qb because he won games?

 

[steelbtexan]

Bridgewater arm is on par with rivers,rodgers,manning coming out of college. Is he big ben,flacco,cutler,rg3,stafford? No,but its above avg, and strong enough to make plays from different platforms to every part of the field. This is not just my opinion, go read what others have said about him. His football iq,poise,pocket presence along with his physical skill level makes him the best prospect in the draft regardless of position.

I agree with you about impact players at the top of the draft and Clowney is an impact plact player. Give me 2 potential impact players, Clowney and Mettenberger who has proven himself against top tier competition, has elite arm strength and has run a pro style system in college later in the 1st than spend 1-1 on Bridgewater who has good not great arm strength and the fact that Bridgewater has struggled against the likes of UH bothers me.

I respect the fact that you think Bridgewater is the guy and if he's as good as you think he is then Bridgewater is worth 1-1. I'm not willing to take that risk. Luckily for you if Rick is still GM then Bridgewater will be the pick. (So I hope you're right) Of course Rick is the GM of a team that's lost 10 games in a row. So I've got very little faith in Rick.

 

[Runner]

I haven't been in this thread for a while, but I did call Keenum's regression once teams got some film on him and made adjustments. That said, I don;t think that's the biggest reason for his regression. IMO, it's because Kubiak is putting him under center much more often.

Keenum was playing very well from the pistol, with the occasional under center play. Since he's gone to mostly under center, his play has fallen off. I'm not sure why Kubiak is playing him under center more, but it's not working. If Kubiak was " being smart about it", He would call more plays from the pistol and try to win some games. As it is, it seems like Kubiak is actively sacrificing his job to see if Keenum can play under center. If it were me, I'd mix in the under center plays at a lot slower rate. Let Keenum sling it from a comfort zone rather than force him to learn playing under center the hard way.

Sorry if I'm rehashing things already hashed out.

Does being under center more improve the running game? I can't remember what formations the Texans were using when Tate was at his most productive against the Patriots

 

[disaacks3]

Keenum hasn't been asked to take over a 2-14 oilers team like moon was....or a 4-12 Giants team that finished last in their division behind a 5-11 Redskins team like Eli was. God only knows what Fouts' team was before he came aboard but i'm confident that they were probably bad too.

all those guys came into way worse situations....which pretty much explains why they didn't have the same kind of "success" that Keenum has enjoyed in the stats dept. thus far. They took over very bad teams devoid of any real talent.

Keenum has actually got a chance to step in and take over a fairly talented team on both sides of the ball...that much is acknowledged by everyone. A team that was 12-4 last year...So i'm not so sure the stats tell you what you think they tell you. His stats might be more reflective of that more than anything.

Wow. Tell me exactly how "good" this team was once we started losing players. How many downs did Keenum get with Arian on offense? Heck, how many with a healthy Tate? How about 11 starters on Defense? You're in a dreamland if you think this was a good situation to come into.

....In 1 post you went from "well, keenum could do more if he didn't have to deal with all this.." with your laundry list to literally "With Keenum keeping the game close..." As if, he's the sole reason why the games have been close...which we know isn't true.

it just comes off as excuses....call a spade a spade...stats be damned, he hasn't gotten it done & there is next to nothing to suggest that he will ever be able to get it done.

Furthermore, Schaub had to deal with half of that stuff as well..this is the hand he has been dealt, he needs to show marked improvement. All you guys are in here doing now is claiming moral victories..."look at his stats, he's doing better than this HOFer ever did"......

Quiz -We had three losses this year by >10 pts., name the QB? (Hint: It wasn't Keenum)
Who was the Texans leading rusher in those games? (Hint: It wasn't Tate)

Quit acting like it's some sort of Apples-to-Apples comparison when it clearly isn't.

Has Keenum "put the team on his shoulders" and willed them to victory? Nope. Hell, I'm not sure he's the guy yet. I'm also sure that no first-time starter would look all that good under the circumstances. Offense put up 31 last week, they aren't responsible for that loss.

Sure, draft a QB. I just don't want to waste a #1 on any of the ones coming out. There isn't a Luck in this class.

 

[Linca]

This draft can bite us hard in two years when JJ leaves, Cushing is out or playing badly and no talent is brought in. We can easily go from an average at best defense to the worst in the league.

If we draft a QB just to draft one it will not end well...

 

[HOU-TEX]

Probably nothing of significance, but I thought it was interesting.

Nick Mathews ‏@Nick_Mathews 1h
#Texans' Keenum with&w/o Kubiak on sidelines:
W: 39-72, 751, 4 TDs, 1 INT, 103.4 rat
WO: 64-118, 682, 4, 2, 75.6

 

[kiwitexansfan]

Probably nothing of significance, but I thought it was interesting.

Makes sense to me. Kubiak can call an effective offense.

 

[michaelm]

Drafting a qb early can set you up for great success in the future ala Big Ben, Eli manning, flacco, matt ryan, Luck. But you better hit on the pick because if you dont then your franchise will be set back for years...e.g. david carr, tim couch, jamarcuss russell, ponder, gabbert, sanchez..etc.

Most of those guys, if not all of them, were drafted before the NFL instituted the rookie wage scale.
Missing on a #1 draft picks hurts, and I'm not saying otherwise, but it doesn't set a franchise back nearly as much as it did before the wage scale.

 

[Mr teX]

Wow. Tell me exactly how "good" this team was once we started losing players. How many downs did Keenum get with Arian on offense? Heck, how many with a healthy Tate? How about 11 starters on Defense? You're in a dreamland if you think this was a good situation to come into.

Quiz -We had three losses this year by >10 pts., name the QB? (Hint: It wasn't Keenum)
Who was the Texans leading rusher in those games? (Hint: It wasn't Tate)

Quit acting like it's some sort of Apples-to-Apples comparison when it clearly isn't.

Has Keenum "put the team on his shoulders" and willed them to victory? Nope. Hell, I'm not sure he's the guy yet. I'm also sure that no first-time starter would look all that good under the circumstances. Offense put up 31 last week, they aren't responsible for that loss.

Sure, draft a QB. I just don't want to waste a #1 on any of the ones coming out. There isn't a Luck in this class.

You're the one in a dreamland if you think this team is as bad as those early 80's teams moon got saddled with... even now with having lost Cushing & Arian for the season we're still probably more talented....so spare me the "losing players" argument.

keenum's circumstances are no worse than what Schaub/Yates have had to deal with over the years in positioning this team to win games.......

You think Newton sux at RT now, What, did you miss how awful he was last year as an overmatched rookie that was later hobbled by an injury that made him that much more worse?.....you know, when Schaub had to depend on him to block for him?

Cushing was lost in game 7 of this year.....Schaub lost him 3 games earlier last year.....

I also didn't hear you guys crying about circumstances for TJ when he lost his best WR in 2011 for basically all of the regular season either....his starting FS for another what 6-8 games that same year.

for him maybe needing an "offseason as the starter" after his 2011 rookie year to possibly explore the option of him as a potential starter.....

Hell, not even for him needing 1st team reps after being thrust into a blowout in the making against the rams this year....


We all also know what kind of handicap Gary Kubiak has presented all of them at various times too.

Nope...none of that for the other 2 guys.

With Schaub it was "he's not gonna have a perfect team around him all the time to be successful, he's just gotta make plays!!!!!..."

With Keenum: " but, but but the circumstances!!!!"


Here's the bottom line. if Case is to ascend to being a legit starter like everyone in here wants, he's gonna have to contend with and overcome that kind of stuff...as we expected every other qb before him. That really goes without saying to be honest.

& him "willing" this team to wins & looking half way decent is the best & easiest way to solidify himself as a potential starter for us next year....don't really see how people don't understand this. Right now, all we have is him looking decent & that hasn't even been all that great as of late.

 

[disaacks3]

You're the one in a dreamland if you think this team is as bad as those early 80's teams moon got saddled with... even now with having lost Cushing & Arian for the season we're still probably more talented....so spare me the "losing players" argument.

keenum's circumstances are no worse than what Schaub/Yates have had to deal with over the years in positioning this team to win games.......

You think Newton sux at RT now, What, did you miss how awful he was last year as an overmatched rookie that was later hobbled by an injury that made him that much more worse?.....you know, when Schaub had to depend on him to block for him?

Cushing was lost in game 7 of this year.....Schaub lost him 3 games earlier last year.....

I also didn't hear you guys crying about circumstances for TJ when he lost his best WR in 2011 for basically all of the regular season either....his starting FS for another what 6-8 games that same year.

What the hell are you smoking? You are what your record says you are. With injuries, this team is every bit as bad as those teams...and THAT is what Case has had to work with.

I didn't cry for TJ, and I don't cry for Keenum. Both had to go from 3rd on the roster to starter too fast. At least TJ had a better running game, not to mention a FAR better Defense to fall back on.

Don't let those facts stand in the way of your feelings though.

 

[Brisco_County]

This is something I've noticed since Keenum's first start. Adjusting to this system is a bit counter intuitive for him. It relies on the short passes to stay on schedule and for clock control, but his instinct for the short pass is still shaky.

Gary Kubiak thinks Case Keenum has to become more content with short-yardage gains rather than trying to go for big chunks on every pass. Keenum’s aggressive approach has contributed to his 54.2 percent completion rate, which ranks 34th in the NFL. He has completed 60 percent of his passes in a game just once during his 0-6 run.

“As a coach, I’m always trying to get guys started in games well and completions, those type of things. So that’s something I work on,” Kubiak said. “But he’s got to improve in some of those phases. And a lot of that has to do — he’s a very aggressive kid; he likes to get the ball down the field. That’s great. You can’t coach that sometimes, so you don’t want to lose that. But he’s got to learn to check balls down and take those 3- and 4-yard gains sometimes when he has to instead of sitting there, sitting there, because he’s got so much confidence in what he’s doing. I think he’s going to get better with that as we move forward, and obviously, we can help him.”

Link.

 

[Mr teX]

What the hell are you smoking? You are what your record says you are. With injuries, this team is every bit as bad as those teams...and THAT is what Case has had to work with.

I didn't cry for TJ, and I don't cry for Keenum. Both had to go from 3rd on the roster to starter too fast. At least TJ had a better running game, not to mention a FAR better Defense to fall back on.

Don't let those facts stand in the way of your feelings though.

There are plenty of facts to go around my friend...

Fact: keenum contributed to extending our losing streak 6 more games after Schaub was benched.

fact: before Case took over we hadn't lost to jax in 2 years....much less putting up only 6 pts at home & wasting 1 of the defenses better efforts.

The last fact is for the "well if you only give up 19 pts you should win" crowd. Tell me then, should you expect to win if you only give up 13 pts too?

I'm done in this thread...

 

[maddogmrb]

Stats lie.

& he was doing it with not even a 3rd of the weaponry Case has....which that alone is more than anything Case has done to this point. .

Insane post ....

 

[maddogmrb]

Keenum hasn't been asked to take over a 2-14 oilers team like moon was....or a 4-12 Giants team that finished last in their division behind a 5-11 Redskins team like Eli was. God only knows what Fouts' team was before he came aboard but i'm confident that they were probably bad too.

all those guys came into way worse situations....which pretty much explains why they didn't have the same kind of "success" that Keenum has enjoyed in the stats dept. thus far. They took over very bad teams devoid of any real talent.

Keenum has actually got a chance to step in and take over a fairly talented team on both sides of the ball...that much is acknowledged by everyone. A team that was 12-4 last year...So i'm not so sure the stats tell you what you think they tell you. His stats might be more reflective of that more than anything.

INSANITY to think this year's team is ANYWHERE close to last year's team.