badboy
Hall of Fame
Prorated about 4,000 yds and 20 TDs. Hopefully with a better Oline and Foster and a partial year behind him he could be better. Not bad for a starter.
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All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread
- Thread starter legacy_gt
- Start date
Another "we see eye to eye" post! Man, it's becoming routine.
MSR.I do not have a hard opinion on Keenum. I see flashes of brilliance that make me think the kid could be all that, and then I see things that make me wonder about him.
One of the biggest aspects of a QB for me is the "clutch factor". People can ramble on about stats until they are blue in the face, but at the end of the day, can the QB drive the ball down the field in less than 2 minutes to win a game?
Warren Moon consistently threw one of the most beautiful passes I've ever seen in the NFL. Has stats out the wazoo to back up a HoF induction. But, dude wasn't clutch. When it mattered the most, he wilted.
People like to rag on Eli Manning. And in some ways, I could say it's justified. But dude is 8-3 in the playoffs (you know, when it really matters), has two rings and two SB MVP awards. He's clutch when it matters the most.
So back to Case. Is he clutch? Have we seen anything in him to believe he's got ice cold steel in his veins when it counts? Is he ruthless under pressure?
Maybe in college, but I'm not convinced about it 6 games into his NFL career.
That being said, I'm also not convinced that he cannot do it, too.
With a high draft pick, it has to be a tough choice. And that's why whoever on Kirby makes the decision is going to have to make the call about Case. I suppose they can bring him into camp, but there will be so much pressure to start a no. 1 pick at QB that it's probably not fair to Keenum.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Mid-way through the third quarter, Brady drives his team down the field to take the lead for the first time, 21-17. Case responds by driving the Texans 81 yards down the field in 10 plays to retake the lead 21-24. On their next possession, Brady again drives his team down the field to retake the lead 28-24. And once again Case responds by taking the Texans down the field in only 3 plays, the big play being a 66 yd completion to Hopkins, to take the lead again 28-31.
And when the game came down to the final ticks of the clock? Fail.
I know it wasn't all his fault, but he didn't overcome either
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Why wouldn't the chargers be the best case scenerio? If aj smith had any sense,he. Would've franchised drew again. I know the high drafted rookie qb scale was different,but the chargers got a 3rd for drew when they could've gotten a negotiated 1 and maybe a 3 for for drew.
I mean, let's assume the draft bridgewater and he beats out case,at the very least,case is a good backup qb. Maybe kubiak resurfaces somewhere,he puts in a word for case and the texans get a 4th for him,that's value. The texans are in a no lose situation by drafting the highest rated player in Bridgewater. If he turns out to be a bust,its no different than any other high pick who becomes a bust.
Number19
Hall of Fame
I'm with you. If we manage to get the first pick, and some team is willing to mortgage the farm like Washington did with RG3, we just might be able to address OT, ILB, CB & NT with our first four picks and still draft a QB in the 3rd round. I believe someone stated that drafting a QB with our first pick is a "no lose" situation. We would certainly lose the opportunity to address the overall strength of the team.Keenum has shown us he has the arm and the wits to be a starter. It is still my belief that if we invest in a better O-line we don't have to draft a QB, except maybe a new backup in the last rounds.
And my OPINION is just as good as anyone else's here.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Keenum has shown us he has the arm and the wits to be a starter. It is still my belief that if we invest in a better O-line we don't have to draft a QB, except maybe a new backup in the last rounds.
And my OPINION is just as good as anyone else's here.
Someone needs to tell me why he can win a singular game. I mean, as much flack as he takes on this board,look at what vince young took over as a rookie.
Titans were 3-13, got rid of the guy,volek, signed collins ,and they were 0-6. Even the most avid followers of football have a hard time naming skill players on that team,yet they go 8-2 as a starter.
Luck,rg3,and wilson took over 2,6,and 7 win teams,not a 12 win team and all won double digit games. In the case of luck and rg3,they both had bad olines and piss poor defenses.So with all that said,how come this college football winner,can't win a game?
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
Drafting anyone is a crap shoot. We stand just as good a chance of getting a dud as getting a super player. If defending Keenum doesn't make sense, then neither does saying a college QB that has never played a down in the NFL will do better.
And I could be wrong about Keenum, and yall could be wrong about drafting whomever. It's all conjecture at this point.
Number19
Hall of Fame
For one, the season is not over. Second, the importance of going through a full pre-season with the starting unit is being overlooked.
I'm thinking your question will be answered Thursday.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
You're right. I mean we're talking about 21 yr old kids. Disagreement with most on this board are the opinions of Bridgewater. Me personally in the 3yrs of watching him thinks he's gonna be a all pro qb. I thought as a sophmore he was the best qb in college football and even as a jr I think the same. When I watch him,I think his talent translate in the nfl. Maybe people want Case to be the guy so bad that they will be negative on bridgewater. If the consensus is he's the top rated player who plays the most important position probably in all sports,why shouldn't the texans draft him? Its a franchise altering move that they have to get right.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yeah, not quite the way it happened. They had two down years with the departure of Eddie George, Derrick Mason and then an injured McNair as the supposed starter ending in 4-12 to pick VY. Collins started the first 3 games although VY had as many passing attempts as Collins in games 2 and 3 - all losses. VY then started the remainder of the season and went 8-5. His rushing had more to do with their wins than his passing. His passing game has him sitting at home watching the NFL.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
In the end, all any of us want is a frigging super bowl trophy and a nice parade downtown. Frankly it could be Keenum or Bridgewater or XYZ for all most of us care, as long as it happens. For now I like Keenum, but if we draft Bridgewater and he wins us a super bowl, then Keenum will be merely water under the bridge.
Yes, I really did say that.
That's why I quoted your comment. You didn't respond to the question, you gave some bs about what happened earlier in the game, not whether he was ruthless under pressure or had ice cold steel in his veins when the game was on the line. Not if he was clutch.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Schaub also won the only 2 games we've won thus far too.. It's not overthinking it at all. We got blown out to SB contenders in SF and Baltimore and 1 bad blowout loss to a STL team......a team who did the same to our division leading rivals. Besides none of those losses are equal to the 2 horrible losses at the hands of 2 bad teams at home in the Jaguars and Raiders...to 2 equally average to bad qbs.
I don't see what the big deal is in declaring him a non-starter after 6 games. Most of our resident draft gurus do it to many incoming prospects before they even take a snap in the NFL & most of you guys all but did the same thing & condemned TJ Yates as "schaub 2.0" after about the same amount of games...5 regular season games, 2 playoff games and 2 qtrs.
Why is it ok to do it in those situations but not in this situation with Keenum? He hasn't shown much more if anything more than what TJ did in his trial run.
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JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Because the Chargers let a MVP caliber player in Brees walk in Free Agency because they had such a high investment in Rivers. If you spend a high pick on a player like Bridgewater he's eventually going to start. It doesn't matter who Keenum becomes at that point.
stingray
Hall of Fame
Im not saying that the Chargers would have kept brees but the decision was made a lot easier when Brees tore his labrum in the last game of the 2005 season. Some thought that it might have been a career ending injury. Thats part of the reason why he wasnt sought after by many teams.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Maybe you haven't been watching,but Rivers was a top qb for a few yrs. With the new staff,he's having another great season. Brees was struggling the yr before they got rivers despite having all world LT. AJ had the cap room to franchise drew brees then negotiate a trade much like new england did with cassel to the chiefs. They blew it,but they stil got a comp 3rd pick for him.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
exactly.....context matters
IIRC, Brees was injured and hadn't shown that he was a MVP caliber player to that point
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Yeah, kinda funny one guy is 3-4 with a playoff win and won a critical game on the road with a last minute drive vs cincy. Yet the local legend gets excuse after excuse created and can't win a freaking game.
stingray
Hall of Fame
Yeah, kinda funny one guy is 3-4 with a playoff win and won a critical game on the road with a last minute drive vs cincy. Yet the local legend gets excuse after excuse created and can't win a freaking game.
I dont know why you guys are caught up on the U of H thing. I could give a rats ass about u of h. I want to see if case is the future or not because i know Schaub isnt. Does it really matter if case would have won a couple games by now in the grand scheme if things? Not at all.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Case Keenum will be 27 years old next year. How much leeway is he going to get? Are people prepared to wait until he's 30 before pulling the plug? Or pass up what MANY (professional analysts, sportswriters, scouts etc...) feel is a no brainer in Bridgewater if the 1st pick is had? I'm sure some of you guys being machinists,sales directors,production managers; have watched a ton a football and its nice to speculate and blurt out an opinion, but I'll have to tip the scales in the favor of the people who get paid to speculate, instead of doing it as a hobby.
I have yet to find a negative assessment on Bridgewater. He's as close to a lock as possible for a QB. Do some research, stop trying to make him seem like some scrub who doesnt have a chance to succeed.
What is easier to address via free agency ... a franchise QB or some linemen? People act like this team needs a few all pro guys on the OLine for it to become a good unit again, all this team needs is a few COMPETENT linemen to make everything look much,much better. the same for the defensive side, but this team will have high picks in each round, they should be able to land no less than 3 starters in the draft for next years team not counting free agents.
I cant sit through another debacle of a season going on a hunch that Keenum will get better, next years QB class, or the year after that will not have the talent that this year has, and contrary to popular belief, a 1st round talent is not the same as a 3rd round talent. Best available player by importance of position. simple as that. Keenum will have to play at a Pro Bowl level for me to even give him the benefit of the doubt, I've seen enough of the same blunders to not want those headaches next year. Blame the line, the coaches and the defense all you want, at some point Keenum is going to have to prove to people HE can win a game, and thats all that matters. Feel good story be damned.
I have yet to find a negative assessment on Bridgewater. He's as close to a lock as possible for a QB. Do some research, stop trying to make him seem like some scrub who doesnt have a chance to succeed.
What is easier to address via free agency ... a franchise QB or some linemen? People act like this team needs a few all pro guys on the OLine for it to become a good unit again, all this team needs is a few COMPETENT linemen to make everything look much,much better. the same for the defensive side, but this team will have high picks in each round, they should be able to land no less than 3 starters in the draft for next years team not counting free agents.
I cant sit through another debacle of a season going on a hunch that Keenum will get better, next years QB class, or the year after that will not have the talent that this year has, and contrary to popular belief, a 1st round talent is not the same as a 3rd round talent. Best available player by importance of position. simple as that. Keenum will have to play at a Pro Bowl level for me to even give him the benefit of the doubt, I've seen enough of the same blunders to not want those headaches next year. Blame the line, the coaches and the defense all you want, at some point Keenum is going to have to prove to people HE can win a game, and thats all that matters. Feel good story be damned.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Drew Brees' injury helped in making the decision but he was still likely gone from SD anyway. The investment in Rivers is what ultimately ended his stay in San Diego (IMO).
If by top QB you mean he has been in the top 7 or so then okay. Rivers is nowhere near as good as Brees though.
No, Brees hadn't. Neither has Keenum to this point in his career, which is why I said I hope we don't pull a SD.
Agreed
Vance87
All Pro
You should probably get his age right before you try and argue anything else.
Number19
Hall of Fame
I haven't spent a lot of time studying the draft prospects, but last week I did spend maybe 5 minutes on Bridgewater and immediately found several question marks on him: his hand size is questionable, he has a low release and the third was strength of schedule. Now I'm not drawing any conclusions, I'm simply stating some negatives I found with very little research.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
LOL, semantics. Bless your heart.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
with the last AFC wildcard still up for grabs...yeah it actually does/would matter....not only would it give us more to hang our hat on in evaluating him, it also alters our draft position. If you truly believe that the o-line is one of the main problems in keeping him from truly showing what he has, then him winning keeps Matthews in play as a potential draft pick in the top 5-10. As it stands now, if we remain locked in with the #1 pick, there's only 2 choices from a draft pick standpoint @ #1; Bridgewater or Clowney...Matthews is not an option.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Could you post the links? Ive spent alot of time glossing over college QBs since this ****storm started taking shape and I havent seen those critiques, and by whom they were made.
found it
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ille-glove-hands-clean-up-2014-draft/3009249/
so his hand size will be a deal breaker? I dont think so, but Im not a pro scout either.
stingray
Hall of Fame
So you would rather win a couple games to "justify" the matthews pick? If the texans believe that matthews is a franchise tackle then they can draft him with the first pick. They dont have to go by the bleacherreport rankings. And as for a chance at a wild card? That was as likely as me winning the lotterry. The Texans dont have a qb on their roster right now to even sniff the playoffs this year. Matt schaub is a shell of his former self.
I'm not sure it's semantics if your point is his age and you got his age wrong.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
TJ is actually 3-3. He technically started the last game of the season but only had 4 attempts and then Delhomme played the bulk of the game.
Not going to get into the excuse thing. It can equally be said some are rooting against Case. Bottom line, real similar opportunities with better results from the QB with Case.
TJ 6 games: 100 comp., 185 att., 54.7%, 1245 yds, 207.5 ypg, 6.7 ypa, 4 TDs, 6 INTs, 68.9 QB rating.
Case 6 games: 103 comp., 190 att., 54.2%, 1433 yds, 238.8 ypg, 7.5 ypa, 8 TDs, 3 INTs, 86.1 QB rating.
TJ: 18.3 ppg with 3rd rushing scoring attack and 4th ranked scoring defense v. Case: 20.7 ppg with 25th rushing scoring attack and 27th ranked scoring defense.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
so he wont be 27 years old next year? isnt he about to turn 26? I didnt do that well in math, but trying to get down to specificities sure seemed like semantics to me, but admittedly i didnt do that well in English either so my use of the word might be off.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
You don't take a RT with the #1 overall pick dude...
Number19
Hall of Fame
I'm not sure about the hands. Are QB's allowed to wear gloves? If not, small hands could be a problem with handing the ball and fumbling.
Carr had a low release point and they tried to fix this without positive results. A low release point is a problem when passing from the pocket.
eriadoc
Texan-American
He'll be 27 years old on Feb. 17, 2015.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Very true, but in this case Bridgewater knows where he wants to put the ball before the snap, he doesnt play backyard football and run around like crazy hoping somebody opens up down field. he will adjust the protection, audible and make the smart play BEFORE THE SNAP .. mechanics are usually a sign of disaster with a young guy who cant read a defense and then trying to make him throw in an uncomfortabal manner usually compounds the problem IMO.
Certainly a concern however, no denying that. Enough to for him to slide if he declares? I doubt it.
edit: yes, QBs can wear gloves if they want to.
stingray
Hall of Fame
I wouldnt even take a right tackle in the top 10. But thats just me. But what if the Texans are blown away by matthews in the combine abd workouts? What if they totally fall in love with him and believe hes the next anthony munoz? Then they should have no reservations on drafting him #1 overall. Thats why teams have their own rankings.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Ohhhh Im trippin' ... he's a youngster with so much time to grow into the position, sorry guys Im wrong, he'll be a HOFer no doubt, or at the very least a good game manager, awesome!
edit: go ahead an neg rep me again bro, i kinda miss 'some red ones' ... LOL
Vance87
All Pro
A simple two second search would have saved you that...bless your heart
eriadoc
Texan-American
Jackass may just be innate for you, but I just provided the date for you. Do with it what you will. Well, I guess you have, so whatever.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
fair enough...but we all know folks would be blowing their tops on this board if the Texans took him with Bridgewater, Clowney...& to a lesser extent Mariota still on the board.
Even still, us locked in at the #1 overall pick at the moment pretty much takes Matthews completely off the table in terms of the draft....he's still got a chance to change that, but it's got to start now...this week with a win over Jax.
Wolf
100% Texan
I have seen bridgewater play yet.
Article compares him to maybe Aron Rogers
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...breaking-down-louisville-qb-teddy-bridgewater
Article compares him to maybe Aron Rogers
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...breaking-down-louisville-qb-teddy-bridgewater
Declare it all you want, some people just disagree with you. I happen to think saying that he is 0-6 is a terrible way to decide the worth of a QB in his first 6 starts, especially under these circumstances and the fact that you have 4 more starts to come to a more educated conclusion.
I think Case has had fine games and a couple bad games and I'll think he'll keep improving and become a solid starter. The guys has never even had a camp as the starter. If the Texans FO honestly think they can draft a franchise QB with that first pick, that's hard to pass up. Teams struggle to find franchise guys for decades but it's far more of a crapshoot than this board seems to want to acknoweldge. How many first round QBs have failed to pan out?
I don't want to see them reaching for a QB when there are so many other areas of need as well.