EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
And that is part of the problem with Society today IMO
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All Encompassing Andre Johnson Thread (Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson)
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And that is part of the problem with Society today IMO
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I don't disagree with you on that but it is what it is.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
The NFL doesn't operate in free market though. If it did, We wouldn't spend so much time talking about contracts. Websites wouldn't be dedicated to breaking down the salary cap. Because of the salary cap, each player's contract has a direct correlation to the team organizations ability or inability to improve the product on the field. The reason I care about AJ's salary is because it is eating up more than 10% of the team's cap space. So, it is an added insult when he holds out-saying that it is about winning... If winning is what he cares about, then the solution was to take a reduction in pay or restructure again.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
That's a totally different topic than the one I was addressing. I was addressing the amount of money that these people make and whether society considers being an athlete a worthy job that contributes something to society. The fact that this is not a pure free market economy is irrelevant to that point.
At this point, talking about what Andre is doing, why he's doing, and whether he should be doing it is mental masturbation because everyone's just making up stuff, reading their own agendas into his actions. So that's a whole topic of conversation I have no interest in.
Hottoddie
Veteran
Man, this went NSZ and I don't even hang out there.
C'mon Training Camp!
Yeah & to push it further from the original subject, Obama & the democrats should pass legislation to charge anyone making more than me a Luxury Tax. That'll fix their wagon.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
That's why I have a problem with NFL Contracts.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
This is a great case for REMOVING BARRIERS for start up companies rather than regulating them out of existence as a paid favor to the heartless old guard.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Playing a game is what you and I do occasionally. These athletes are a bit more vested.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Yeah but to me playing a game is a luxury, to these guy playing a games provides them luxury.
So i work my ass off all week in hopes to afford the luxury of playing games, while they get paid millions to play games. Big difference.
Texian
Hall of Fame
That's always the misconception. AJ DOESN'T get more money when the TEXANS restructure his contract. YES the TEXANS GET MORE $ to spend but AJ gets the same amount as he always did, nothing more.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
It's all about hitting the jackpot.
If you happen to be really, really, really good at playing a game that other people are willing to pay to see played at a high level, that other people enjoy watching, that other people are entertained by, then you're going to be paid a lot of money to play a game.
Back before the 70's, football players had to have real jobs that allowed them to play football in the fall because playing football didn't pay enough. With the advent of TV and advertising dollars, things went sideways. The league and the teams started making truckloads of cash and a small portion of that cash trickled down to the players. That cash allowed the players to stop working any other jobs and concentrate on getting better at playing which allowed them to get better and better at their game.
You just need to concentrate on getting insanely good at a game people will pay to watch you play.
badboy
Hall of Fame
A job is a job and you may enjoy or not. I enjoyed assisting people with applying for Social Security Disability for 20 years. It was fun (mostly) and made me adequate income. You think you work harder than an NFL player? Seriously. The only difference is people pay to watch athletes do their job.
Troy Chapman
Rookie
Technically he is correct, AJ get money at the time of the restructure. His weekly game check goes down. But yes we understand, he gets the $10 million regardless if it is $7m today and $3m during the season or $10m during the season.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Sure about that? AJ got his $ into his hands faster when he restructured. He did not get more than was in his contracted but did get millions quicker; only reason he agreed. IIRC the last one put about $5 m into his checking account immediately.
Hottoddie
Veteran
Now, if I can only convince people that "Rock, Paper, Scissors" is a game worth paying for.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
if you generate the money, you should be able to keep it. It doesn't have anything to do with teachers salaries or firefighter pay. If you could sing like Frank Sinatra who should get the money that people want to pay you? If you make a software application that amounts to shooting angry birds should you not take the cash because ditch diggers work harder than you do and their work is more substantial?
Overall, I'm disappointed in Johnson. Having his Uncle speak for him and missing camp has soured his reputation in my eyes. He's not the immortal awesome Texan I used to see. He's putting himself way ahead of the team now and that's a turn off.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
He's got a little VY vibe to him now . If this about money , he would have been worse off if it wasn't for the Texans . If it's about winning , he was on these two win teams and he sgned that long extension .
kingtexan
All Pro
^^^this
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Let me just riff a little bit off of the "great musician" thing here.
When you buy a CD from a major label, the majority of the money goes to the record company. I'm not sure how it is today but about 20 years ago, out of the $16 for a CD, the artist/band only got about thirty cents up to about a dollar (if they were really powerful and had good lawyers.)
The songwriters, however, could get filthy rich not from the sale of the CDs but the play of their song on the radio at a major radio station. The radio stations would pay a fee to some companies based on the market size of the radio station. The songwriters would register with these companies (ASCAP, BMI, a few others). There was a complicated and convoluted formula to estimate how many people heard a given song and based off that, the songwriter would get paid.
Record Company execs and managers back in the day would give a songwriter a car or something in exchange for the royalties to their songs and then they would get credit as the songwriter. Some guys would take those credits and assign them to their children so their children would be getting paid for the rest of their lives. It was a dirty, filthy business and a lot of old rock and blues guys got absolutely robbed blind that way.
There's a feeding frenzy for songwriting credits. Producers in many genres won't produce an act unless that act agrees to perform the producer's songs; many big name artists won't record a song unless you give them songwriting credit. (I had a friend of mine get jobbed because she wouldn't give Madonna songwriting credit.)
But my point in all this is that a lot of big time, famous musicians and singers that you think are or should be rich, aren't.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
I said more money up front, i meant more bonus money from his current contract. I know he dont get MORE money.
I never disagreed with this specific point.
But, a lot of your rants in this particular thread have a very envious vibe about them and you seem to perpetuate ideas of salary warfare to support your agenda.
I'd take your rants a little more seriously if did not watch the game, but since you are obviously a hardcore football fan, it's just a little strange to see you tear down something that you actively support.
As far as salaries themselves, The Pencil Neck nailed it.
With regards to your lower paying jobs comments, that's life. Why is the CEO of Oracle worth $78 MILLION in one year (2013)?
If you really want to see who makes the big bucks in this country, this is the list: 100 Highest Paid CEOs
I'm not a class warfare warrior, and I understand this is all a result of a capitalistic society. It might be a horrible economic system, but it is still the best one that humanity has created so far.
You nailed it, man. I should save it.
Different subject,but I tend to agree in general. However, that said, the Texans and HLR will ultimately pay for the stadium over their lease. The taxpayers are just loaning the funds to build the stadium, but in the end, the franchise and rodeo will pay for it along with the regular upkeep.
Are we Soviet Russia?
The NFL does operate in a free market economy. The economics within the NFL are not free market, but most big corporations are not. However, the economic system in the U.S.A., that the NFL operates within, is certainly free market capitalism.
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
Man BOB's mind control powers are spreading on to the fans.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I don't know if entertainers being paid more means that people value them more than teachers or firefighters.
Entertainers reach a larger audience.
All those viewers add up to big bucks.
I could be a great doctor, but I'm only going to have so patients I can see.
Even if you cut the ticket prices for entertainment in half, the good ones are still going to be really rich because they reach larger audiences.
Now if you broke it down, sure dollar for dollar by the amount of people I'm sure the entertainers still make more....But I think it's as astronomical as it is because of the larger numbers they reach.
Entertainers reach a larger audience.
All those viewers add up to big bucks.
I could be a great doctor, but I'm only going to have so patients I can see.
Even if you cut the ticket prices for entertainment in half, the good ones are still going to be really rich because they reach larger audiences.
Now if you broke it down, sure dollar for dollar by the amount of people I'm sure the entertainers still make more....But I think it's as astronomical as it is because of the larger numbers they reach.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
It's supply and demand, but luck at timing the market also helps as demand can change drastically overnight while supply takes longer. In my own case, my degree was in great demand when I started it, in good demand as I started my senior year, and without demand when I graduated. It was bad timing which changed my financial situation considerably.
But I, like most adapt to the changes.
For football players, a simple injury or bad Pro day can immediately change the demand for their services.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Technically AJ gets an advance on his salary. The restructure benefits the Texans because it does allow them to spend extra dollars. See my post #1389, pg 70 for AJ benefits.
Agreed
But if you get more $$$$ upfront, then you should be able to make a good return on that extra upfront bonus $$$$ instead of McNair.
Texian
Hall of Fame
This is what I explained in post #1389 and he pays less out of state taxes because he now earns a smaller paycheck. Again the main benefit is the Texans get to spend additional $$$!.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
I never disagreed with this specific point.
But, a lot of your rants in this particular thread have a very envious vibe about them and you seem to perpetuate ideas of salary warfare to support your agenda.
I'd take your rants a little more seriously if did not watch the game, but since you are obviously a hardcore football fan, it's just a little strange to see you tear down something that you actively support.
As far as salaries themselves, The Pencil Neck nailed it.
With regards to your lower paying jobs comments, that's life. Why is the CEO of Oracle worth $78 MILLION in one year (2013)?
If you really want to see who makes the big bucks in this country, this is the list: 100 Highest Paid CEOs
I'm not a class warfare warrior, and I understand this is all a result of a capitalistic society. It might be a horrible economic system, but it is still the best one that humanity has created so far.
You nailed it, man. I should save it.
Different subject,but I tend to agree in general. However, that said, the Texans and HLR will ultimately pay for the stadium over their lease. The taxpayers are just loaning the funds to build the stadium, but in the end, the franchise and rodeo will pay for it along with the regular upkeep.
Are we Soviet Russia?
The NFL does operate in a free market economy. The economics within the NFL are not free market, but most big corporations are not. However, the economic system in the U.S.A., that the NFL operates within, is certainly free market capitalism.
Wow it is ridiculous what them CEOs are making, considering they pay a lot of their employees just above minimum wage.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Man there's a lot of deleted posts in this thread.
Anyways, people here might kvetch over AJ during the off-season but most of that crap is forgotten the first time he pulls some magic out of his hiney during the regular season. He's getting older and I doubt the love of the game is still as much with him as it was when he was a bright young star.
In a game that's as brutal as Football I will never be upset with an athlete trying to get his money while he still can. A team can cut a player at any time and only pay out a portion (not all) of his contract, and that's that. Players are right to try to grab whatever piece of the pie they feel they are entitled to, team be damned. It sucks as a fan because we get attached to the players and the team, but in the end, these guys are putting their lives on the line for our entertainment (huge difference, unfortunately, from rescue workers, soldiers, etc who put their lives on the line for other various reasons).
Andre Johnson's job and salary have as much to do with your crappy cubicle job as it does to mine, which is basically nothing.
Anyways, people here might kvetch over AJ during the off-season but most of that crap is forgotten the first time he pulls some magic out of his hiney during the regular season. He's getting older and I doubt the love of the game is still as much with him as it was when he was a bright young star.
In a game that's as brutal as Football I will never be upset with an athlete trying to get his money while he still can. A team can cut a player at any time and only pay out a portion (not all) of his contract, and that's that. Players are right to try to grab whatever piece of the pie they feel they are entitled to, team be damned. It sucks as a fan because we get attached to the players and the team, but in the end, these guys are putting their lives on the line for our entertainment (huge difference, unfortunately, from rescue workers, soldiers, etc who put their lives on the line for other various reasons).
Andre Johnson's job and salary have as much to do with your crappy cubicle job as it does to mine, which is basically nothing.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Pretty sure the employees of Oracle, Exxon and a good deal of companies on this list outside of food service and retail organizations pay well above minimum wage. My boss is in the Top 20 and even our office admins make more than the "average salary" touted on that website.
But like Texian said, think about how much we as Texans fans craved a top tier coach and QB. That same thing happens out in the corporate world as well. Everyone wants to work for That Guy. Let's hope that Bob proves to be That Guy for the Texans and this place becomes a destination instead of a departure.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Oh no doubt some of the mgmt guys of these companies make good money, i made 80K a year, my boss made 150K a year. But we had 200+ employees just at my terminal. Me and him made good, the other 198 employees were lucky to break 30-40K a year, and they did way more work than we did.
But i started down there with them and worked my way up. I always thought how much they made was unfair though. It's called grunt work and people often forget about those people. But they shouldn't.
Texian
Hall of Fame
From a shareholder's point of view, whether you own stocks, 401K, IRA, Mutual Funds etc, you want that CEO who knows how to make money and grow the business. You don't mind the CEO making money if you're making money.
I think Bob is an excellent businessman and probably the nicest owner in the NFL. His Texans definitely make money and are one of the more successful sports franchises on planet Earth. However when it comes to managing the X and Os on his football field he's much more like the novice fan.
Bob has been of the mindset he could buy a championship and he would spend the cash to do so. Hopefully he has learned that is not a successful franchise model and the system penalizes those who do. Maybe he has learned that long term planning and preparation is the better way to go. Let's hope so.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
How does the system penalize people attempting to buy championships when the Denver Broncos have done what they've done over the last 2 years?
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
When Mannings arm finally gives out they will be in cap hell and they have no QB option in place. Osweiller? lol
Texian
Hall of Fame
When you borrow money from future years, year after year, eventually you end up in salary cap hell. While other teams can supplement their draft with good players via free agency, teams in salary cap hell cannot. As a result the ability to remain competitive is compromised. At some point the piper must be paid (clean house).
The difference in the Broncos and the Texans is the Broncos had the money to sign free agents like Aquib Talib, Demarcus Ware, TJ Ward and Emanuel Sanders and the Texans do not. Why? The Broncos have not indulged in restructuring players contract to gain Millions and Millions of dollars that must be repaid with future salary caps. AKA the Broncos never entered Salary Cap Hell!
Texian
Hall of Fame
What kind of education and expertise is required to do grunt work? How hard/easy it to find people to do grunt work at that salary? Could the folks making $30K-$40K a year doing grunt work make the same or more somewhere else?
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
That is not the point, the point is that every hard working man should be able to comfortably provide for his family. Employees who actually make a company possible from the ground up deserve better pay then a lot of them are getting.
Sure the person with an education should make more, but for some americans to have 3 jobs just to barely get by shows failure of American society.
No one i repeat no one should make 30+ million a year while their employees struggle to put food in their families mouths. And say what you will but these rich CEOs/companies get tax breaks like you would not believe. Hell go look at some of these major corporation tax returns they get every year while paying in virtually nothing. While some middle class pay in all year and have to pay in again at the end of the year.
American society has led people to believe this kind of stuff is morally ok, when it is not. America is the land of greed not opportunity.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
It isn't "American" anything really. Look at the history of mankind. If nothing else our system is overwhelmingly fair and far exceeds the norm when it comes to 'relative fairness' once you factor in the reality of history. It's never been 'done right' so to speak...probably never will be either.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Good point, i guess i should say society in general.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
NICE!! Repped. We'll all miss that type of scene in a couple, errrrr 5 or 6 years.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
No one should "comfortably provide for their family" just because they work hard. If they were worth more pay they'd be getting it.
Please tell me what the tax breaks these CEOs are getting and explain how they work? Please also show me these corp tax returns, since they aren't public information I'd like to know how many you've looked over and how well you understand them.
You ignorance on a variety of topics related to economics, business, taxes and investments makes your comments and penis envy comical
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Your first sentence above is laughable, i suppose sweat shop workers agree with you.
And i know google is hard for some morons so i will help you with a few easy links.
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/artic...eryone-else-pays-for-big-businesss-tax-breaks
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/10/23/big-companies-pay-no-taxes/2480281/
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2014/05/giant-corporations-scam-tax-refunds/
http://www.sfgate.com/business/netw...big-break-in-federal-income-taxes-5267883.php
http://www.alternet.org/corporate-a...porations-have-basically-stopped-paying-taxes
Sometimes you amaze me with your lack of brain capacity. Your welcome.
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