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All Encompassing Andre Johnson Thread (Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson)

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The situation you have described features some top quality players coming back from bad injuries which helped cause the team to go 2-14 last year. The situation also has a few new players coming into a team needing to make an immeadiate impact, which happens all over the league to good and bad teams thanks to the draft and FA.

Riiight, they all chuck their starting QB, pick up a journeyman with a lousy TD/Int ratio and pick one in the 4th round. Your assertion that this "happens all over the league" is correct...to teams that are rebuilding.


I'm really struggling to see how this is a rebuild, rather than a new coaching staff changing a few players, whilst happening to have a change of QB during the offseason. Change of QB? To what / whom exactly? If you can't name the starting QB with 100% certainty, you're in for a whole lot more than just a coaching change.



There are a string of first round QB draft picks who have been monumental busts, and a list of QBs who were not drafted in the first couple of rounds who have gone on to be HOFers. Im not sure what NFL history you think shows me up there? "Gone on to be HOF'ers?" I hope the distant past isn't what you're hanging your hat on. Quick, name 3 Pro-Bowl QBs taken 4th round or later since Tom Brady, I'll wait. Heck, name three good ones? Hint: One of the "best" is on the Texans roster and he was demoted to 3rd string last year.

As for the front office - their track record has been hit and miss (like every team). This is however, a draft obviously heavily influenced by what OB is trying to do and doesnt appear consistent with previous drafts to me. I wish they'd traded abck into the first for Bridgewater, thought they reached for a TE, but otherwise, great value picks, especially Nix.

Sorry, but I'm excited for Fall. I'm excited to see how the new system works, I'm excited to see how the rookies develop and I'm excited for the Texans to make a playoff run. I really hope that there is someone who can help share some of that excitement with AJ.
Hey I'm excited as well, but trying to temper that enthusiasm with basic numbers. The chance of this team (barring some miracle trade) of having a better than an 8-8 record is long shot. It doesn't mean I won't go to games, it doesn't mean I won't spend $$ on merchandise, it simply means that I'm a realist.

We've always had "sunshine pumpers" to "doom and gloom" folks on here with wildly different takes on the team. I tend to be somewhere in the middle.
 
Andre won't make the Hall of Fame with his current numbers (especially with Isaac Bruce, Harrison, Moss, and TO ahead of him in line), so I doubt playing a year or two with mediocre QBs throwing to him appeals much if he wants to make the Hall.
 
What? Johnson has averaged 110 catches for 1500 yards over the past 2 seasons. That's better than Boldin's best year...in 2005. And forgive me if I don't take your opinion on the cap seriously, after you described Schaub's contract extension as a bargain.

Bargain? LOL= spinning-spinning-spinning

AJ still has much more ability to get deep, even though he has slowed down some, than Boldin has ever had. This is a terrible comparison. Not that I would expect less from DM. (The Texans resident cheerleader.)
 
Have said before that unless the Texans get their collective **** together, JJ Watt will end his career as a Green Bay Packer. Don't want that to happen, but very possible.

Letting AJ go would go along way towards not letting this happen. (Cleaning up the cap mess)

Remember when AJ's uncle screwed up his 1st contract? McNair redid the contract when he didn't have too. Bestowing many more millions on AJ, that's loyalty. Where's AJ's loyalty in return?

Is the world coming to an end, I'm saying positive things about McNair?
 
Interesting. I'm going to delve into ancient history with the Texans. I hope I get the gist of the facts correct; it's been a long time...

I was stunned when Dre signed his first contract extension with the Texans. Looking back I can understand it though. I had always heard rumblings from his camp that he'd play out his rookie contract, and then try to go to the team of his choice. Obviously that didn't happen.

However, I speculate about the following in hindsight: that when the time came that the Texans offered him an extension the business side of football took over. Had he gotten injured before his rookie contract expired his career would be done with some millions in the bank. The extension guaranteed the opportunity to end up with some tens of millions in the bank no matter what happened. After that, the other extensions made him richer and richer.

Basically, I think business decisions kept him here, and now that he is reaching the end of his career he might be looking back and wishing he had made other decisions. This regret might be exacerbated if he perceives the Texans aren't going to be big winners for the next couple of years as his career runs out.

He's human - many people look back at their lives and wonder about the choices they've made. He is under contract and technically has to live with those choices. In reality, everything is negotiable.

He could stay with the team, the team and he could reach an agreement and he could be moved, he could do a Barry Sanders and retire wealthy while saving a couple more years of wear and tear on his body.

It will be interesting to see this play out.
 
I am a huge AJ fan and look forward to seeing his jersey hung in the rafters in NRG and see it on display in Canton. While I would hate to see AJ move on, I do understand where he is coming from. I am a Texans fan first and would have to support the team with or without #80 and wish him luck unless he is playing the Texans. I do see retirement as his only way out. His contract makes it almost impossible to move him.
 
It just makes too much sense to trade him. Lots of positives very few negatives if any at all in terms of this teams future.

Positives
Gain 3.7 million in cap space.
No dead money next year.
You are doing right by a player that has been a consummate professional for 12 years.
You're getting something in return for him. He's 33 the window to get anything for him is about to slam shut.

Negatives
?????
 
All this talk of what AJ deserves, what's best for AJ....

It's bullcrap!

What's best for the Texans?

wouldn't you agree that what is best for the Texans is to try and trade an aging WR and get an extra draft pick or 2 to help rebuild the future?

by doing so, you would also be doing what is best for Andre Johnson. If this is handled wrong, and how well respected Andre Johnson is in the community and the league, could be a tremendous backlash on the Texans. If other players, in and outside this franchise, view it like "Andre Johnson gave his entire career to the Texans and look how they did him in the end" then you will not get a decent free agent to ever come to the Texans again...


trading Johnson seems like a win/win to me
 
wouldn't you agree that what is best for the Texans is to try and trade an aging WR and get an extra draft pick or 2 to help rebuild the future?

by doing so, you would also be doing what is best for Andre Johnson. If this is handled wrong, and how well respected Andre Johnson is in the community and the league, could be a tremendous backlash on the Texans. If other players, in and outside this franchise, view it like "Andre Johnson gave his entire career to the Texans and look how they did him in the end" then you will not get a decent free agent to ever come to the Texans again...


trading Johnson seems like a win/win to me

While I agree trading AJ is a win/win the thought that FA's wont come to the Texans because of the way the Texans org treated AJ is hogwash. FA's usually go where the $$$$ is. Which is a big reason why the Texans with the exception of 1 yr have never really been players in FA.
 
It just makes too much sense to trade him. Lots of positives very few negatives if any at all in terms of this teams future.

Positives
Gain 3.7 million in cap space.
No dead money next year.
You are doing right by a player that has been a consummate professional for 12 years.
You're getting something in return for him. He's 33 the window to get anything for him is about to slam shut.

Negatives
?????

Repped. There's only upside here and I could not care less where we trade him to. I loved him while he was here but if he's ready to clear up 43 million in cap space the next three years by being traded I'm all for it.
 
Repped. There's only upside here and I could not care less where we trade him to. I loved him while he was here but if he's ready to clear up 43 million in cap space the next three years by being traded I'm all for it.

Yep,

I don't see why the Texans org haven't already considered this. Unless they were afraid of the fan backlash of trading AJ. AJ's $$$$ is/was better spent elsewhere. (See extending Watt.) Now can Smith find a sucker/team to take AJ's contract off of the Texans hands? Probably not, unless AJ wants to take a large pay cut to facilitate a trade. Not going to happen.

AJ wants his cake and to eat it too.
 
Andre has most certainly talked to Watt and given advice.

How much money is enough to suffer through what Johnson has had to endure? Both these guys are competitors who have friends with rings. Friends with much less talent. Yet those friends can always and forever flash that jewelry.

Pride is the ultimate driving force for these guys. Of course money is important but how much is enough and are you willing to sell out your dreams for more.
 
wouldn't you agree that what is best for the Texans is to try and trade an aging WR and get an extra draft pick or 2 to help rebuild the future?

by doing so, you would also be doing what is best for Andre Johnson. If this is handled wrong, and how well respected Andre Johnson is in the community and the league, could be a tremendous backlash on the Texans. If other players, in and outside this franchise, view it like "Andre Johnson gave his entire career to the Texans and look how they did him in the end" then you will not get a decent free agent to ever come to the Texans again...


trading Johnson seems like a win/win to me

I'm all for trading him if it helps the team.

But not because AJ deserves a Ring.


I love AJ too, he has been a great Texan!
 
To the pro trading Andre people...

Are there a lot of contenders at the top that have the cap space to bring him in? I doubt this guy is going to want to move, learn another new system, and do it for free when he is currently scheduled to earn almost $16 MM (against the cap anyway).

I read somewhere the Browns are one of the very few feasible landing spots for him. If the face of your franchise is willing to leave you for the Browns, you don't allow it out of principle, we would never get another free agent signing again because if he's willing to leave for Cleveland, there MUST be something wrong with this city and this franchise.
 
Who's saying you can't trade him? Get a 2nd-3rd for him, save 3.7 million against the cap this year, and 30 million over the next two years. If AJ demands a trade, then I'll root for him wherever he goes but we're not tied to him like some people think. The raiders or browns are both dumb enough to make this trade happen.

Haha imagine the irony. The guy is tired of losing and asks for a trade......and gets traded to CLE/OAK.
 
To the pro trading Andre people...

Are there a lot of contenders at the top that have the cap space to bring him in? I doubt this guy is going to want to move, learn another new system, and do it for free when he is currently scheduled to earn almost $16 MM (against the cap anyway).

I read somewhere the Browns are one of the very few feasible landing spots for him. If the face of your franchise is willing to leave you for the Browns, you don't allow it out of principle, we would never get another free agent signing again because if he's willing to leave for Cleveland, there MUST be something wrong with this city and this franchise.


pretty much says it all

I really hope JJ doesn't sell his soul and be forced to suffer the indignity Andre has.
 
To the pro trading Andre people...

Are there a lot of contenders at the top that have the cap space to bring him in? I doubt this guy is going to want to move, learn another new system, and do it for free when he is currently scheduled to earn almost $16 MM (against the cap anyway).

I read somewhere the Browns are one of the very few feasible landing spots for him. If the face of your franchise is willing to leave you for the Browns, you don't allow it out of principle, we would never get another free agent signing again because if he's willing to leave for Cleveland, there MUST be something wrong with this city and this franchise.

Winning cures everything. We were a 2-14 team last season, so I don't think there were a lot of Free agents lining up to come here anyway. My hope is that O'Brien will bring an attitude of pride and winning to this organization like we see with the Patriots.

If he wants to leave, let him. I'm still rooting for the Texans regardless of where he goes. :texflag:
 
With Andre Johnson pondering his place in Houston, fans around the league may be wondering whether he could be moving to an NFL city near them. After much spirited discussion factoring in talent, age, injury history, demonstrated production and salary, the Around The League crew has tentatively placed Johnson's trade value at a second-round draft pick. ... If the Texans were inclined to field offers for the NFL's second-most productive wide receiver over the past two seasons, salary cap repercussions still present a formidable hurdle. A Johnson trade would leave $11.96 million in dead money against the Texans' 2014 cap, per NFL Media's Albert Breer. Perhaps just as prohibitive, a prospective suitor would need the space to absorb Johnson's monstrous contract.
http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_...-hurdle-in-dealing-irked-johnsonn?eref=fromSI
******
No way, 3rd round pick tops.
 

Definitive no, an relative educated opinion yes. Fitzgerald is the only situation he mentioned that was truly comparable. And until 2013, Johnson greater production could be attributed to having a better QB and overall team than the cardinals.

When a player actually gets to free agency that is when his real chance of overpayment happens. The player then has the choice of getting every dollar he can or taking a bunch of money but giving himself a better chance to win. We saw this with Mario, he was rumored to be the top choice of buffalo and Atlanta. he got on the plane to the team offering the most money and never made it to Atlanta to even visit.

Now, I have no idea if in the same situation that Andre Johnson would have taken a smaller, but still damn good amount to go to a team closer to winning it all, but seems like players go Mario's way more than towards pure winning.
 
If the Texans were going to deal Johnson they would have done it during the draft. I don't think McNair wants to sell a Andre trade to his fan base. Obrien needs to insert his leadership now.
 
To the pro trading Andre people...

Are there a lot of contenders at the top that have the cap space to bring him in? I doubt this guy is going to want to move, learn another new system, and do it for free when he is currently scheduled to earn almost $16 MM (against the cap anyway).

I read somewhere the Browns are one of the very few feasible landing spots for him. If the face of your franchise is willing to leave you for the Browns, you don't allow it out of principle, we would never get another free agent signing again because if he's willing to leave for Cleveland, there MUST be something wrong with this city and this franchise.

Yes the patriots have the capspace. And I do believe Andre would restructure his contract and take less to play for a winner.
 

Good article. This is the most interesting part of the article to me:

The more difficult aspect of the trade is to find a trade partner. Johnson has $34.5 million remaining on his contract, a huge number for a player that is about to turn 33 years old. While Johnson plays at a far higher level than his peers at that age, players like Anquan Boldin and Wes Welker are working for $6 million a season. To complicate matters Johnson would likely want an extension or some type of guarantee on his contract.

Only 12 potential destinations could absorb his $11 million salary without touching the contract. Of those 13 only the Bengals, Eagles, Packers , and Colts would be considered sure fire contenders and most of those squads are set at the WR position. Fringe playoff teams with the room would include the Jets, Dolphins, and Bills. Buffalo would certainly have no interest and Miami is already overspent at the position.

I don't think the Texans would ever trade him to the Colts (at least I hope so). If he had to be traded, I'd rather see him go to NFC.
 
Does anyone see us keeping Andre after next year anyway? With his age and his cap hit it's very unlikely he would be brought back anyway.
 
The team has Zero incentive to trade him. His contract makes him very difficult to move .... lots of dead money for the team & they will get pennies on the dollar in return for his ability.

Just look at what some other high profile players have been traded for in recent years .... then realize what the team loses on the field & in terms of cap space.

The team has ..... Zero incentive to trade him.

If I'm Rick Smith in this case , I have to tell #80 to either show up and collect his millions or .... retire. The team gets more out of this scenario than trading him.

That's the harsh reality.

Very true, man. While I'm an AJ fan like most everyone else, I'm a Texans fan first and foremost. We will be Texans fans when AJ's career is a distant memory.

That said, I still cannot help but reminisce about another HoF player in Houston football history and how things could have gone better. I guess I always envisioned AJ playing his career out in Houston and giving us a heads up for his last season so fans could honor him accordingly. But, real life has a way of twisting and turning, so rarely is there a storybook ending like Elway or Ray Lewis got with retiring after winning a championship.

Ultimately, all of this will be judged in 20/20 hindsight after it all plays out, and much will depend on AJ's decisions and how much success O'Brien brings to this franchise.

My hope is that all of this does not leave some form of cancer that infects the attitudes of other players down the road. Specifically, one JJ Watt and his future with the franchise. Just speculating now, though, so nothing but food for thought and discussion.

Andre won't make the Hall of Fame with his current numbers (especially with Isaac Bruce, Harrison, Moss, and TO ahead of him in line), so I doubt playing a year or two with mediocre QBs throwing to him appeals much if he wants to make the Hall.

If we take off our homer glasses and truly analyze his career, you are correct. AJ certainly has the talent to be worthy of the HoF, but we know getting inducted is more than just talent. It is about numbers and career achievements, and in that regard, being a Texan for 11 seasons have certainly held him back in that regard.

There is a long waiting list of WRs to the HoF, and it's just going to get longer with the current arena-league trend in the NFL toward making the passing game a lot easier.

If the Texans were going to deal Johnson they would have done it during the draft. I don't think McNair wants to sell a Andre trade to his fan base. Obrien needs to insert his leadership now.

yep. This is where the Belichickian silence is going to hurt O'Brien, not about the fan base, but the team he is trying to build. AJ is a friend and leader to many of these Texans players, so how he is treated by the head coach is going to reverberate in that locker room for years to come.

What is tough for us fans right now is trying to analyze a coach with so many unknown qualities. O'Brien is so new to us that we are collectively having a tough time really putting our finger on the pulse of this franchise right now.
 
I'm all for trading him if it helps the team.

But not because AJ deserves a Ring.


I love AJ too, he has been a great Texan!

well I should state that the Texans should take the best offer available and if the team happens to be a contender, so be it.

You are correct, they shouldn't do a trade just so he can get a Ring, that should be like icing on the proverbial cake for Johnson.

If Oakland or Buffalo or somebody like that has cap room and the offer is right, pull the trigger, thank Andre Johnson for all of his contributions to the Texans organization and community and wish him well in his future endeavors....

Then pray to God that he doesn't come back and lights the Texans up if/when they meet in the regular season or worse, playoffs...
 
I had a whole big post ready to go on this but I scrapped it. Don't feel like dealing with the blind homers and sunshine pumpers. I'll just say this; Andre needs to go somewhere and win so his whole career isn't flat wasted. The Texans will be swimming in the kiddie pool for a couple more years so 'Dre needs to leave and win now. Hopefully he can wash the stench of what, only 3 winning seasons out of 12 years and 3 #1 picks in that time off of his person in time for when he goes to the HOF.

I certainly don't wanna be a blind sunshine homer pumper but just to point out a small factoid, in reality AJ has only had to endure 2 #1 picks, not 3. :tiphat:




:D
 
I'd prefer to keep him since I think we will make the play offs this coming season, but if that's not a goal the team thinks is attainable then they should trade him.

Last thing you want is to force Andre to be here, and then the team hits a rough patch and Andre starts thinking "here we go again".

Last season he said something like 'we suck' after a game...got into a shouting match with Schaub on the sideline...then stormed off the field early....and then the comments yesterday...

He's doing things that are uncharacteristic of him because the losing has gotten to him.

If Andre doesn't go to the FO and coaches and tells them that he's fully bought in and convinces them of that, then they should move him. As much as Andre means to the franchise, a disgruntled and downtrodden Andre would not be good for anyone.
 
I certainly don't wanna be a blind sunshine homer pumper but just to point out a small factoid, in reality AJ has only had to endure 2 #1 picks, not 3. :tiphat:




:D

yeah but it's also every losing season in between. I bet it would suck to play in November-December knowing you are playing for nothing and Johnson has had to do that on many occasions through his career...
 
I'd prefer to keep him since I think we will make the play offs this coming season, but if that's not a goal the team thinks is attainable then they should trade him.

Last thing you want is to force Andre to be here, and then the team hits a rough patch and Andre starts thinking "here we go again".

Last season he said something like 'we suck' after a game...got into a shouting match with Schaub on the sideline...then stormed off the field early....and then the comments yesterday...

He's doing things that are uncharacteristic of him because the losing has gotten to him.

If Andre doesn't go to the FO and coaches and tells them that he's fully bought in and convinces them of that, then they should move him. As much as Andre means to the franchise, a disgruntled and downtrodden Andre would not be good for anyone.

And he's the best we have.

And I don't see how we could get anyone better than what is left on this team already.
 
Letting AJ go would go along way towards not letting this happen. (Cleaning up the cap mess)

Remember when AJ's uncle screwed up his 1st contract? McNair redid the contract when he didn't have too. Bestowing many more millions on AJ, that's loyalty. Where's AJ's loyalty in return?

Is the world coming to an end, I'm saying positive things about McNair?

Naa, you're just giddy because of all the big, fat nasties this totally incompetent GM/FO put in the trenches last week. :)
 
After sleeping on this, I think it's more an attempt to renegotiate for more money. AJ's got that uncle and probably everyone else constantly whispering in his ear: You ain't gettin' paid! You're the greatest. You gettin' disrespected.
 
Change of QB? To what / whom exactly? If you can't name the starting QB with 100% certainty, you're in for a whole lot more than just a coaching change.

I don't see the situation as that bad. They've pretty much got a season to take a flier on Fitzpatrick and see how it pans out, and then move to Savage next year if it doesn't. Over the past 4 years Fitzpatrick has has a 85 to 66 TD-INT record, which is hardly amazing - but he has also in some really poor teams during that timeframe. In comparison, our QB play last year has a TD-INT ratio of 19-22 which is obviously far worse (especially considering the amount of sub 7 point games we had, and also the amount of INTs which were returned for touchdowns).

Gone on to be HOF'ers?" I hope the distant past isn't what you're hanging your hat on. Quick, name 3 Pro-Bowl QBs taken 4th round or later since Tom Brady, I'll wait. Heck, name three good ones? Hint: One of the "best" is on the Texans roster and he was demoted to 3rd string last year.

Obviously we don't know how careers are going to pan out, but last year we had Matt Cassel (a 7th round pick and Pro-Bowler) and Brady (a 6th round pick) from the later rounds starting. We also had a host of 3rd round QBs like Nick Foles, Matt Schaub, Russel Wilson and Mike Glennon who are/have been very promising starters and/or pro-bowlers over the past year or two.

The comment I was responding to was in relation to a 4th round pick being a "half court" shot - I'm not making some argument that the later rounds/undrafted market is a gold mine for future hall of famers (it is possible, but obviously not the norm). I'm not sure if the original comment I was responding to was tongue in cheek or just hyperbolic but I read that the success rate of that is 1.3% - and I think it is misleading to suggest that the 4th round QB that we've just picked up has a sub 2% chance of being our QB of the future.

Hey I'm excited as well, but trying to temper that enthusiasm with basic numbers. The chance of this team (barring some miracle trade) of having a better than an 8-8 record is long shot. It doesn't mean I won't go to games, it doesn't mean I won't spend $$ on merchandise, it simply means that I'm a realist.

We've always had "sunshine pumpers" to "doom and gloom" folks on here with wildly different takes on the team. I tend to be somewhere in the middle.

I get where you are coming from - I just don't see the roster last year as a typical 2-14 team (as mentioned before, I think there were a ton of one-off issues which probably shaved 3-5 wins off the total). With consistency this year I think that the team's aim should be a minimum of a wildcard spot (judging by Indy's recent ascendancy). I don't think a Superbowl is possible this year - but that should be OB's goal for year 2 of his tenure.

More in line with the thread - I wish someone from within the organisation would make a strong push to help AJ believe in what is going on. To be frank I'm annoyed that after 3 odd years of the fans pushing to get a coaching change, the changes have been made - and now is the time that he has choosen to start questioning everything out in public.
 
When someone posts something that is disagreed with why does his integrity have to be questioned? Not just this thread but it frequently gets personal with name calling and negative adjectives tossed back and forth. Sometimes this MB reminds me more of a playground.

Lol this forum wanted to tar and feather me when I posted in a game day thread that JJ had spit on the pats 50yrd line before it hit the local radio or internet.

(Roomate was a transplanted pats fan and was listening to their local sports talk when it happened and was reported in NE)


Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
 
After sleeping on this, I think it's more an attempt to renegotiate for more money. AJ's got that uncle and probably everyone else constantly whispering in his ear: You ain't gettin' paid! You're the greatest. You gettin' disrespected.

This is exactly my line of thinking. It's about time this organization thinks and acts like a winning team.......be as fair to the player as possible......but stay firm to the goals of making the team successful.
 
After sleeping on this, I think it's more an attempt to renegotiate for more money. AJ's got that uncle and probably everyone else constantly whispering in his ear: You ain't gettin' paid! You're the greatest. You gettin' disrespected.

As a soon to be 33, he is not worth more money. It isn't that hard to argue that he isn't going to be worth the amount he is scheduled to make next year.

Sports radio is rough today. I've lost track the number of times I've heard that this wouldn't be happening if Lovie has been hired instead of O'Brien.
 
I've lost track the number of times I've heard that this wouldn't be happening if Lovie has been hired instead of O'Brien.

Yeah well, fortunately they only force you to interview people because of skin tone, not hire them because of it. Lovie wasn't the best candidate for the job, so didn't get it ...
 
Post draft depression because Texans didn't upgrade QB. Bridgewater was right there but no love from Rick & good OL boys on Kirby.
 
All we need to do is win and Andre will be back to his normal self, lots of turmoil with Andre last year.. He's going to have to suck it up noone is going to take a 12 million dollar cap hit on a 33 year old receiver.
 
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