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3rd pre-season game vs Giants

Sweech said:
Yeah I'm not really buying the excuses people are making for Pierce.

It's literally identical to what we saw last season. Pierce looks the same and the excuses are the same.

Yet somehow those excuses don't effect Akers and somehow they didn't affect Singletary.
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Me either, as much as he seems like a hard worker and good teammate...he just doesnt have the vision to fit this system...no reason he should make this team at this point. There are currently 4 Rb's on this team that are all new to this system and they are all running the ball and playing better than he is....and he's had 2 years of playing with these guys...no more excuses and there is no way you can cut another RB over his spot on the roster.
 
sprtsfanatic said:
Me either, as much as he seems like a hard worker and good teammate...he just doesnt have the vision to fit this system...no reason he should make this team at this point. There are currently 4 Rb's on this team that are all new to this system and they are all running the ball and playing better than he is....and he's had 2 years of playing with these guys...no more excuses and there is no way you can cut another RB over his spot on the roster.
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The only justification for keeping him at this point is as the #3 or #4 because his special teams play is stellar.
 
Sweech said:
The only justification for keeping him at this point is as the #3 or #4 because his special teams play is stellar.
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The only ST spot I've see him at is returner (I could certainly be missing something,) but Sims looks like the guy at that position. The problem of course is that Sims is a WR that we're already so deep at and it's tough to take 2 ST only guys at one position (Skowronek is the other. )
 
badboy said:
The most significant thing from this past game that I want to see extended entire season is no major injuries. If that happens, we can compete with anyone on the field.
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Wasn't it Taylor who went into the blue tent after a helmet to helmet collision? Is he OK or in concussion protocol? I don't recall seeing him after this play.
 
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Number19 said:
Wasn't it Taylor who went into the blue tent after a helmet to helmet collision? Is he OK or in concussion protocol? I don't recall seeing him after this play.
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I did not see that nor have I seen anything anywhere including our injury thread. Tbh, I have not checked there yet today.
 
cland said:
The only ST spot I've see him at is returner (I could certainly be missing something,) but Sims looks like the guy at that position. The problem of course is that Sims is a WR that we're already so deep at and it's tough to take 2 ST only guys at one position (Skowronek is the other. )
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I hope Jawhar Jordan gets some opportunities in the final preseason game at kick returns. He had two return tds in college and was Louisville’s career leader in KR average.
 
sprtsfanatic said:
no I think the problem is Pierce doesnt have the VISION thats required in this system...he's told to hit a hole and he puts his head down and runs for that hole whether its there or not...and if its not then he just ends up running up the back of his OL which is a good way to shorten their careers as well...
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I don't doubt Pierce has a vision issue. Doesn't take away the fact that the OL wasn't making lanes. The two plays I'm talking about Akers was able to make lemonade. Pierce doesn't have that kind of ability, in addition to not having vision.

I'll be surprised if Mixon averages 4 ypc week 1.
 
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Thought I'd put this question in this thread. My question is on Stingley's interception that was right near the Bills goal line, I think they spotted the ball at 1ft line. But my question is, what if Stingley's "reverse" momentum pushed him well into the endzone and then he was tackled. Essentially that he caught the ball in the field of play, his momentum carried him into the endzone, and he was tackled. Would it be counted as if he caught the ball in the endzone, resulting in the ball being spotted for the Texans at the 20? Or would it potentially be considered a safety, rewarding the Giants 2 pts and the ball? Or would the "forward momentum" rule count to spot the ball where he caught it, and if so what if he recovered, tried to run to the other side of the endzone, but was still tackled in the endzone ?

I'm leaning towards the 3rd option, but don't know the actual rules in this case. Any thoughts?
 
cland said:
Thought I'd put this question in this thread. My question is on Stingley's interception that was right near the Bills goal line, I think they spotted the ball at 1ft line. But my question is, what if Stingley's "reverse" momentum pushed him well into the endzone and then he was tackled. Essentially that he caught the ball in the field of play, his momentum carried him into the endzone, and he was tackled. Would it be counted as if he caught the ball in the endzone, resulting in the ball being spotted for the Texans at the 20? Or would it potentially be considered a safety, rewarding the Giants 2 pts and the ball? Or would the "forward momentum" rule count to spot the ball where he caught it, and if so what if he recovered, tried to run to the other side of the endzone, but was still tackled in the endzone ?

I'm leaning towards the 3rd option, but don't know the actual rules in this case. Any thoughts?
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If I understand your question, once the ball has been intercepted [turn over] it remains in play until blown dead. Regardless of what direction the new ball carrier (in this case Stingley) is facing that is considered 'forward' toward end zone momentum. At any point after he caught the ball, he was in the end zone it would be a touchdown. Once ball has "broken glass" of end zone, it does not matter if the ball carrier is pushed out.

Edit*
I did not see the play but after reading other sources it appears that I misread your post.

If Stingley intercepted in the end zone and goes down and is touched by opponent play is dead and Texans get ball.

If he INT in the field of play then momentum carries him or he goes into end zone to extend play and is tackled; my understanding is it is a safety.
 
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cland said:
Thought I'd put this question in this thread. My question is on Stingley's interception that was right near the Bills goal line, I think they spotted the ball at 1ft line. But my question is, what if Stingley's "reverse" momentum pushed him well into the endzone and then he was tackled. Essentially that he caught the ball in the field of play, his momentum carried him into the endzone, and he was tackled. Would it be counted as if he caught the ball in the endzone, resulting in the ball being spotted for the Texans at the 20? Or would it potentially be considered a safety, rewarding the Giants 2 pts and the ball? Or would the "forward momentum" rule count to spot the ball where he caught it, and if so what if he recovered, tried to run to the other side of the endzone, but was still tackled in the endzone ?

I'm leaning towards the 3rd option, but don't know the actual rules in this case. Any thoughts?
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I was wondering the same in real time but calling it a safety would be a travesty.
 
cland said:
Thought I'd put this question in this thread. My question is on Stingley's interception that was right near the Bills goal line, I think they spotted the ball at 1ft line. But my question is, what if Stingley's "reverse" momentum pushed him well into the endzone and then he was tackled. Essentially that he caught the ball in the field of play, his momentum carried him into the endzone, and he was tackled. Would it be counted as if he caught the ball in the endzone, resulting in the ball being spotted for the Texans at the 20? Or would it potentially be considered a safety, rewarding the Giants 2 pts and the ball? Or would the "forward momentum" rule count to spot the ball where he caught it, and if so what if he recovered, tried to run to the other side of the endzone, but was still tackled in the endzone ?

I'm leaning towards the 3rd option, but don't know the actual rules in this case. Any thoughts?
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At the time, I thought it was a touchback if his momentum carried him into the endzone
 
cland said:
Thought I'd put this question in this thread. My question is on Stingley's interception that was right near the Bills goal line, I think they spotted the ball at 1ft line. But my question is, what if Stingley's "reverse" momentum pushed him well into the endzone and then he was tackled. Essentially that he caught the ball in the field of play, his momentum carried him into the endzone, and he was tackled. Would it be counted as if he caught the ball in the endzone, resulting in the ball being spotted for the Texans at the 20? Or would it potentially be considered a safety, rewarding the Giants 2 pts and the ball? Or would the "forward momentum" rule count to spot the ball where he caught it, and if so what if he recovered, tried to run to the other side of the endzone, but was still tackled in the endzone ?

I'm leaning towards the 3rd option, but don't know the actual rules in this case. Any thoughts?
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If your momentum carries you into the endzone then the ball is spotted at the 20 as long as you dont try to run the ball out of the endzone.
 
I’m not 100% sure but I think If his momentum Carries him into the EZ and he’s tackled while that motion is clearly still underway…I think it’s a touchback. If his mo has stopped, he’s turned back around and trying to exit the ez…and then tackled it’s a safety. He can also take a knee at any time while in the ez and it’s also a touchback. So if he thinks he might get tackled the smart move is take a knee.

Please double check me - as mentioned I’m not 100% sure.
 
Sweech said:
I was wondering the same in real time but calling it a safety would be a travesty.
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It is the player with the ball choice to extend the play by not going down in the playing field. If he enters endzone and is tackled, he bears responsibility and consequences of his decision. We usually see this when a quarterback has the ball snapped to him in the end zone and he is tackled.
 
JB said:
At the time, I thought it was a touchback if his momentum carried him into the endzone
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It would have been a touchback if his momentum carried him and the ball completely into the endzone and he was tackled with no forward progress or he gave himself up. On this play it looks like his momentum did carry him partially into the endzone but when he was tackled the ball was not in the endzone and spotted where the play was blown dead.
 
JB said:
At the time, I thought it was a touchback if his momentum carried him into the endzone
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I thought he clearly turned & attempted to run it out. I was actually screaming, "YOU IDIOT"

I was relieved after commercial when they spotted the ball just outside the goal line.
 
badboy said:
It is the player with the ball choice to extend the play by not going down in the playing field. If he enters endzone and is tackled, he bears responsibility and consequences of his decision. We usually see this when a quarterback has the ball snapped to him in the end zone and he is tackled.
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Yes but that's completely different to what's being discussed.

Which is Stingley catching the ball on the 1 or 2 yard line and his momentum carrying him into the endzone.

If the player then tackles Stingley the refs calling it a touchback and giving them 2 points and possession would be beyond stupid.
 
Sweech said:
Yes but that's completely different to what's being discussed.

Which is Stingley catching the ball on the 1 or 2 yard line and his momentum carrying him into the endzone.

If the player then tackles Stingley the refs calling it a t̶o̶u̶c̶h̶d̶o̶w̶n̶ safety and giving them 2 points and possession would be beyond stupid.
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FIFY

The more I've thought about it, I'm still leaning towards the "forward progress" idea (so long as he doesn't make moves in an attempt to 'run it back' from the endzone.) If you think of running back who breaks the plane of the first down marker, but then is driven back by the defense, the ball is spotted at the furthest point (forward progress) where the ball reached, thereby giving the team a first down. In the CBs case, as soon as he has caught the ball (outside of the endzone) that would count as forward progress towards his own endzone (I'm reversing the field as soon as he catches it) even if he is driven back by a tackler or his uncontrollable momentum pushes him backwards into the endzone (similar to the RB.)

This seems to be the most consistent ruling. Giving the player a touchback after catching the ball outside of the endzone seems like it would need a specific rule that I'm unaware of. And I think it's clear that a safety wouldn't make any sense.
 
I think this Giants team will be picking in the top 5 next draft. Still, a win is a win and Texans came out with some good positives besides the score.
For example, John Metchie seems to be fully recovered and reclaiming that form we saw from him at Alabama.
Plus, the defense is rolling.
More to come. Let's see how they go against a real team this weekend.
Edit - the negative, CK is apparently fading. Be glad we have Mills on this team.
 
I now think Metchie is a near lock. I see value in Sims as a returner and if pressed into duty as a receiver he won’t embarrass you. I now think he makes it as well. I’m just unsure about Noah Brown. Talent is there but he is a walking injury. I’m wondering if they might short term IR Brown and deal with his situation later. Same can be said for Ben S. That’s where I think it might be heading. With the emergence of Metchie, he’s my defacto #4. Hutch is #5. Slight chance it’s Woods if they prefer a grizzled relatable vet…but I would favor Hutch. Sims is 6th man and return specialist. Noah and Ben to IR and see how depth, injury, etc shake out over the weeks. You can plug them in later, and other than Woods it sorts itself out for now. Woods becomes odd man out due to age and expense.
 
Porky said:
I now think Metchie is a near lock. I see value in Sims as a returner and if pressed into duty as a receiver he won’t embarrass you. I now think he makes it as well. I’m just unsure about Noah Brown. Talent is there but he is a walking injury. I’m wondering if they might short term IR Brown and deal with his situation later. Same can be said for Ben S. That’s where I think it might be heading. With the emergence of Metchie, he’s my defacto #4. Hutch is #5. Slight chance it’s Woods if they prefer a grizzled relatable vet…but I would favor Hutch. Sims is 6th man and return specialist. Noah and Ben to IR and see how depth, injury, etc shake out over the weeks. You can plug them in later, and other than Woods it sorts itself out for now. Woods becomes odd man out due to age and expense.
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Good post and this is the way I could see it going. However I would keep Sims.

This is really going to comedown to Sims ST's value vs Hutch or Brown's ability at WR. The keys are can Brown stay healthy, but even if he can I see Brown and Hutch as somewhat redundant and Sims makes the team over one of them because if you got in a pinch Sims can play the slot at a fairly high level. The new KO rules will also come into play when it comes to roster decisions. At least that's how I hope things workout.
 
Porky said:
I now think Metchie is a near lock. I see value in Sims as a returner and if pressed into duty as a receiver he won’t embarrass you. I now think he makes it as well. I’m just unsure about Noah Brown. Talent is there but he is a walking injury. I’m wondering if they might short term IR Brown and deal with his situation later. Same can be said for Ben S. That’s where I think it might be heading. With the emergence of Metchie, he’s my defacto #4. Hutch is #5. Slight chance it’s Woods if they prefer a grizzled relatable vet…but I would favor Hutch. Sims is 6th man and return specialist. Noah and Ben to IR and see how depth, injury, etc shake out over the weeks. You can plug them in later, and other than Woods it sorts itself out for now. Woods becomes odd man out due to age and expense.
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There's several players on the roster that might start on IR to begin the season.

I'm thinking Christian Harris, Noah Brown, Tim Settle, etc.

Obviously only 2 can be IR'd before cutdowns and able to come back, but they can still do their usual roster gymnastics by cutting guys like Weeks or Dare IRing a player and then re-signing Dare/Weeks.
 
steelbtexan said:
Good post and this is the way I could see it going. However I would keep Sims.

This is really going to comedown to Sims ST's value vs Hutch or Brown's ability at WR. The keys are can Brown stay healthy, but even if he can I see Brown and Hutch as somewhat redundant and Sims makes the team over one of them because if you got in a pinch Sims can play the slot at a fairly high level. The new KO rules will also come into play when it comes to roster decisions. At least that's how I hope things workout.
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The new kickoff rules are definitely going to shakeup roster construction but it's yet to be seen if you want more big body types like TEs or if you want smaller dudes.

Sims has ST return ability but Noah and Hutch can play on coverage teams in non returner roles, so it's not like they don't have ST ability as well.
 
Sweech said:
The new kickoff rules are definitely going to shakeup roster construction but it's yet to be seen if you want more big body types like TEs or if you want smaller dudes.

Sims has ST return ability but Noah and Hutch can play on coverage teams in non returner roles, so it's not like they don't have ST ability as well.
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Depends on how Ross wants his ST's to look.
 
steelbtexan said:
Good post and this is the way I could see it going. However I would keep Sims.

This is really going to comedown to Sims ST's value vs Hutch or Brown's ability at WR. The keys are can Brown stay healthy, but even if he can I see Brown and Hutch as somewhat redundant and Sims makes the team over one of them because if you got in a pinch Sims can play the slot at a fairly high level. The new KO rules will also come into play when it comes to roster decisions. At least that's how I hope things workout.
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Really comes down to how much they want Tank on ST. If they want to limit Tank’s ST returns to just big game and/or big moment situations then they will need Sims out there returning.
 
Porky said:
I now think Metchie is a near lock. I see value in Sims as a returner and if pressed into duty as a receiver he won’t embarrass you. I now think he makes it as well. I’m just unsure about Noah Brown. Talent is there but he is a walking injury. I’m wondering if they might short term IR Brown and deal with his situation later. Same can be said for Ben S. That’s where I think it might be heading. With the emergence of Metchie, he’s my defacto #4. Hutch is #5. Slight chance it’s Woods if they prefer a grizzled relatable vet…but I would favor Hutch. Sims is 6th man and return specialist. Noah and Ben to IR and see how depth, injury, etc shake out over the weeks. You can plug them in later, and other than Woods it sorts itself out for now. Woods becomes odd man out due to age and expense.
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As much as I’d like to see Metchie make it, he has one game, preseason game, against what is expected to be a bad Giants team and he’s a lock all of a sudden??

Anyway, I think we’ve got to wait and see what the Texans do the Woods and/or Brown. Is Brown hurt? He starting the season on IR or something? Until then, with the top 3 and those 2, I don’t think anybody is a lock. You’re still talking Metchie, Hutch, Sims and Skoronek for ONE spot.

And for what it’s worth Sims didn’t make the initial 53 last year so return ability or not, he’s far from a lock.
 
Speedy said:
As much as I’d like to see Metchie make it, he has one game, preseason game, against what is expected to be a bad Giants team and he’s a lock all of a sudden??

Anyway, I think we’ve got to wait and see what the Texans do the Woods and/or Brown. Is Brown hurt? He starting the season on IR or something? Until then, with the top 3 and those 2, I don’t think anybody is a lock. You’re still talking Metchie, Hutch, Sims and Skoronek for ONE spot.

And for what it’s worth Sims didn’t make the initial 53 last year so return ability or not, he’s far from a lock.
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Who said Sims was a lock?
 
Speedy said:
As much as I’d like to see Metchie make it, he has one game, preseason game, against what is expected to be a bad Giants team and he’s a lock all of a sudden??

Anyway, I think we’ve got to wait and see what the Texans do the Woods and/or Brown. Is Brown hurt? He starting the season on IR or something? Until then, with the top 3 and those 2, I don’t think anybody is a lock. You’re still talking Metchie, Hutch, Sims and Skoronek for ONE spot.

And for what it’s worth Sims didn’t make the initial 53 last year so return ability or not, he’s far from a lock.
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I think it was that game and the fact the team just seems to like him a whole heck of a lot that seems to make him a near lock - Or at least feel that way.

Personally I think I'd still go with Brown, Hutch, Sko after the big 3. I don't think they'll go that route though. I think they either IR Brown to start, cut Hutch with the hopes of sneaking him onto the PS (I'm not confidant about that) or they don't value Sko as a ST ace and cut him.
 
Sweech said:
I think it was that game and the fact the team just seems to like him a whole heck of a lot that seems to make him a near lock - Or at least feel that way.

Personally I think I'd still go with Brown, Hutch, Sko after the big 3. I don't think they'll go that route though. I think they either IR Brown to start, cut Hutch with the hopes of sneaking him onto the PS (I'm not confidant about that) or they don't value Sko as a ST ace and cut him.
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I could see this.
sprtsfanatic said:
Ive got Hutch making it for sure...after that its a toss up with Metch and Sims
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Brown starts out on short term IR and Sims makes the team. At least this is what I hope happens.
 
Would Brown be Eligible for PUP list? It looks like Ben S is back practicing. I was thinking they might stash him. Maybe he comes up with a hangnail.

I agree at least one guy is traded. My money is on Woods, but Ben is another candidate as is Brown. I think they love Metchie and he’s going nowhere but nothing is written in stone past the big 3. This is the most interesting group to watch over the next few days.
 
Lucky said:
I think at least one guy (Woods, Brown, Hutch, Metchie) gets dealt for a pick swap. I don't know which guy(s).
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Out of that group I feel like only Brown and maaaaybe Metchie could be worth picks.

People thinking Woods would get a pick return makes me laugh.
 
Sweech said:
People thinking Woods would get a pick return makes me laugh.
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Well, hardy harhar. Woods has averaged 45 receptions for 503 yards the past 3 seasons. Played in the most popular offense in the league. Just looking at some WR rooms across the league, the Jets might look to deal for Woods, who played under Jets OC Nathanial Hackett in Buffalo. Jets passing game coordinator Todd Downing also coached Woods. The Chargers need WRs, and OC Greg Roman coached Woods in Buffalo. Woods would be attractive to any WC offense looking for a vet WR that can move the sticks.

But if I can give you a laugh, then it's all worth it.
 
Hopefully Woods goes. It’s a shame how we handled our veteran receivers in nuke and aj80 in the past. Why switch it up now. Woods was a great mentor to our younger players but we’ve added more vets who can do the same. Hutchinson isn’t going anywhere. Might be a stretch, I believe Noah and metchie would be wr2 on some teams. The best option would be manipulating the offense to keep Skowronek. Locks should be
Nico
Diggs
Dell
Noah
Hutchinson
Metchie
But if we had to cut one of these players, I would go with Noah due to his injury history. Noah stood out in some important games specifically the bengals game so it hurts me to say this. Metchie would be kept due to his age and potential
 
Lucky said:
Well, hardy harhar. Woods has averaged 45 receptions for 503 yards the past 3 seasons. Played in the most popular offense in the league. Just looking at some WR rooms across the league, the Jets might look to deal for Woods, who played under Jets OC Nathanial Hackett in Buffalo. Jets passing game coordinator Todd Downing also coached Woods. The Chargers need WRs, and OC Greg Roman coached Woods in Buffalo. Woods would be attractive to any WC offense looking for a vet WR that can move the sticks.

But if I can give you a laugh, then it's all worth it.
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A lot of the league felt Woods was basically cooked after his year with the Titans and I don't think his starts with us will have dissuaded anyone of that. 45 receptions and under 500vyards will be available on the waiver wire. Acting like a 32 year old receiver who was STARTING with CJ Stroud and only put up those paltry numbers isn't a big draw. He's a vet guy/locker room guy, those guys are waiver wire/street signing fodder.

Then there's the other big factor which is his contract. Teams will see more value in signing him off the street to a lower cap hit than trading for him.

Woods doesn't have trade value, this isn't Madden. Go talk to fans of other teams and ask if they want to give up draft picks for Robert Woods.
 
Coach said Woods and Hutchinson have been consistent throughout the entire camp. I’m thinking Brown will be the odd man out because he hasn’t been available. The receiver position is finally very deep with this team. Unless you’re a superstar, you can’t miss the time Brown has missed.
 
Lucky said:
Well, hardy harhar. Woods has averaged 45 receptions for 503 yards the past 3 seasons. Played in the most popular offense in the league. Just looking at some WR rooms across the league, the Jets might look to deal for Woods, who played under Jets OC Nathanial Hackett in Buffalo. Jets passing game coordinator Todd Downing also coached Woods. The Chargers need WRs, and OC Greg Roman coached Woods in Buffalo. Woods would be attractive to any WC offense looking for a vet WR that can move the sticks.

But if I can give you a laugh, then it's all worth it.
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Somebody has an issue with differing opinions.
 
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