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2023 TEXANS DRAFT DISCUSSION

thunderkyss said:
I don't know they're names, but I find it hard to believe Nick Saban failed to field a quality team that just happened to be a game away from the NCG because he just happened to have the best QB in CFB since Case Keenum.

If Saban fails to earn a Bowl game in 2023, maybe I'll believe it. Until then, I'm seeing Tua, Hurts, McCarron... eh.
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Did you watch any of their games? They were carried by a strong defense and Young. Offense had Young and a RB and that's pretty much it. They almost lost to the Texas Longhorns for pete's sake.
Yeah they had talent, it was on the defense.

BTW, they were not a game away from the NCG
 
Corrosion said:
I was told back in February, right after Demeco was hired (and posted it somewhere) that no one in the building felt pressured to take a QB and since then that idea has been reiterated on several occasions.
They are not married to the idea ....

I think there's one QB they would take at #2 and if the Panthers take that guy at one, they'll take Anderson or trade out of the pick altogether. They might get more than the Bears got for the #1 pick in a draft day trade .... QB needy teams know they have to get in front of Indy and maybe even Arizona even after their big extension to Murray who might not be ready to start the season, they probably regret that extension right now..
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I don't believe anything I hear or read about the draft in the offseason. I believe everything that is said is smoke and mirrors meant to conceal any intentions.
I'll believe when they draft.
 
DocBar said:
I don't believe anything I hear or read about the draft in the offseason. I believe everything that is said is smoke and mirrors meant to conceal any intentions.
I'll believe when they draft.
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This is exactly what Seth said the other day on his podcast. He also said no one is leaking out any information. But we know the main talking heads have to stir up the pot. Their go to line is “ my source/sauce,” told me.
 
profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

FMIA: The NFL Draft is 17 Days Away, and Memories of a Draft Past Show How Much Has Changed - ProFootballTalk

Peter King reflects on all that's changed since he covered his first NFL Draft in 1984, and looks at what we do (and don't) know ahead of the 2023 Draft.
profootballtalk.nbcsports.com profootballtalk.nbcsports.com
The receivers are all bunched up. One team thinks it’s nuts for Ohio State’s Jaxon Smith-Njigba to be
ranked ahead of USC’s Jordan Addison. Another team has BC’s Zay Flowers the top-ranked wideout on the board. In short, we’re going to see some surprises at receiver on draft night. Smith-Njigba caught just five passes last year for Ohio State as he battled and eventually succumbed to a hamstring injury. Addison caught 100 balls from Kenny Pickett at Pitt in 2021, then 59 more in a new offense for USC in 2022. With a lesser supporting cast at Boston College, Flowers caught 200 balls in four seasons and has been hugely impressive in interviews with teams.

The Bryce Young-to-Carolina talk increases. Though ESPN’s Chris Mortensen stressed the final call has not been made, the plugged-in Mort did say he thinks the Panthers “will stick with him when it’s time to turn in the card” on draft night. This jibes with what I wrote last week — that Young has a lot of fans in high places in the organization. I agree with Mortensen that it’s not a done deal, but the momentum toward Young is real. What’s interesting if the 5-10 Young goes before the 6-3 (and accomplished) C.J. Stroud is how it signifies how much the game has changed over the past few years. Young likes people comparing him to a point guard, a distributor of the ball to the open man, because it illustrates a lot about modern quarterbacking. In today’s game, a short quarterback can work better than a generation ago because it’s more of a horizontal, short-passing game overall.

One coach of a team with a pick in the top half of the first round had an interesting observation about Young/Stroud. This coach told me he had Stroud a strong number one on his board, with Young two. The overriding point was about size. If Young plays at 5-10 and, say, 198, he’ll be one of the smallest quarterbacks ever, obviously, in the NFL. Not just short, but slim. This coach asked me about the defensive fronts Young will face. “Alabama’s line was superior,” this coach said, “and Young consistently had enough time to throw. Taking away nothing from him, because he made the throws and made the plays to be great. But the offensive line for him will be crucial. Think of the defensive coordinators he’ll face, and how much they’ll emphasize putting good hits on him. I don’t see how that’s not a big factor when you put a grade on him.” Think of 6-8 Calais Campbell and 6-3 David Onyemata bull-rushing Young on the Atlanta defensive front—Campbell has 10 inches and 110 pounds on Young. People will say Young faced great defensive linemen in the SEC, and he did. But he’s not likely to have an NFL offensive line as foreboding as the one he had at Alabama.
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Listening to Athletic podcast with Tice & Brugler on WR class & Jaxon Smith-Njigba is consensus #1.

Ton of slot receivers, smaller, less dynamic, could push them down which helps bigs like Johnston, Mingo & Tillman.

Vegas has Young/Stroud even money. Think we need to step back and take whichever Carolina doesn’t select, walk away as mission accomplished. Like a lot about both. Carolina maybe better fit now for Young, but over time should be Stroud (ceiling not reached). So I’d be happy either way and early on after big trade, I would have offered them that early 2nd to jump up to #1, now not so much.
 
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The Panthers have been on the clock since March 10, when a number of NFL insiders figured they knew which quarterback Carolina was targeting after trading up for the first pick.

It was the guy who’d gone up and down the field against Georgia in the College Football Playoff semifinals on New Year’s Eve.

But with less than three weeks before the start of the draft, there’s a growing buzz surrounding Alabama quarterback Bryce Young and the Panthers.

And for good reason, according to one of The Athletic’s draft experts.

“In my opinion, Bryce Young’s the best quarterback in the draft. So I think naturally he should be talked about quite a bit when it comes to the Panthers and what they might do at No. 1. It just comes down to are you comfortable with his size?” draft analyst Dane Brugler said Friday.

NFL observers — and maybe the Panthers, if they haven’t already — have 17 days to answer the C.J. Stroud versus Young debate. And while Stroud, the Ohio State quarterback, remains the betting favorite, the case for Young seems to be picking up steam.

While ESPN’s Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay recently mocked Stroud to Carolina, Chris Mortensen — the longtime NFL reporter who also works for ESPN — said last week he believes Young will be the pick.

While acknowledging the 6-foot-3, 214-pound Stroud has a build closer to the quarterbacks Frank Reich has previously worked with, Mortensen said of the Panthers, “They all love Bryce Young.”

There’s a lot to like about Young — from his 23-4 record as the Crimson Tide starter to his 2021 Heisman Trophy to his reputation as both an accurate passer and gifted processor.

The one knock against Young is something he’s been hearing for most of his 21 years.

“He will be the smallest quarterback in the NFL the moment he is drafted,” Brugler said. “And so you have to be comfortable with that and everything that comes with it.”

Beginning this week, the Panthers will bring in the top four quarterbacks for pre-draft visits — Young, Stroud, Florida’s Anthony Richardson and Kentucky’s Will Levis. The Panthers took a big contingent on the road to see all four throw during their pro days, as well.

But most believe this is a two-man race between Stroud and Young, who threw for close to 5,000 yards — with 47 touchdowns and only seven interceptions — in 2021 in his first season after succeeding Mac Jones as Alabama’s starter.

In a poll last week of nearly 200 former players, coaches, officials, talent evaluators and media members conducted by longtime NFL writer Rick Gosselin, more than half of respondents (51.9 percent) predicted the Panthers would take Stroud with the first pick. Young was next at 34.7 percent, with Richardson (10.2 percent) and Levis (3.2) a distant third and fourth.

Young also is showing up as the Panthers’ selection in many mock drafts. But the only opinions that matter are those of the decision-makers at Bank of America Stadium. And to this point, David Tepper, Scott Fitterer, Reich, et al, aren’t showing their hands.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell would prefer the Panthers keep it quiet rather than spoil the buildup to the prime-time announcement April 27 in Kansas City.

And so we wait, looking for any signs that might indicate which way the Panthers are leaning. An official with another team who was at the pro days at Ohio State and Alabama came away thinking Young would be the Panthers’ choice based on their interactions with the two quarterbacks on consecutive days last month.

Because Stroud checks so many boxes in terms of arm strength, athleticism and — not lastly — size, he has always felt like the safer pick. But after trading four draft picks — two firsts and two seconds — and wide receiver DJ Moore to Chicago for the No. 1 pick, does the big-swinging Tepper really want to play it safe?

Young has drawn comparisons to NBA star Steph Curry because of his confidence and in-game awareness of where everyone is around him. Young doesn’t hate the comparison: He’s a fan of Curry, the Charlotte, N.C., native who banged the Panthers’ “Keep Pounding” drum before Super Bowl 50 in Santa Clara, Calif.

A former NFL coach said Young was a tremendous leader while playing for Nick Saban but lacks elite arm talent. Brugler had a similar assessment of Young’s arm strength, particularly when throwing from a collapsing pocket.

“But when he has a chance to use his instincts, move throwing platforms, that’s where he’s really special,” Brugler added. “His body rhythm, his controlled urgency, everything’s in lock sync — mind, feet, release. There’s a lot of special to his game. You just have to be comfortable with the size.”

That’s where the discussion always returns with Young, who measured 5 foot 10 1/8 at the combine. Only two quarterbacks 5-10 or shorter have attempted a pass in a regular-season game during the Super Bowl era — Doug Flutie and Kyler Murray, who’s been to two Pro Bowls since Arizona took him with the first pick in 2019.

But it’s Young’s weight that is more troublesome for NFL talent evaluators than his height. Though Young weighed in at the combine at 204 pounds, Brugler said Young’s natural playing weight is in the low- to mid-190s.

“That’s just how he’s built and what he’s most comfortable at. And maybe over time that could change a little bit,” Brugler said. “But that’s the big difference between him and Kyler because Kyler was like 207 at the combine. But then he kept getting bigger and bigger. He had a different build, whereas Bryce is just more slight with how he’s built. So it won’t be as easy for him to put on that much more weight.”

The former head coach, granted anonymity to speak freely on the topic, said he watched Young’s tape expecting to see a quarterback who could throw and run like Murray, whose 819 rushing yards in 2020 are the ninth most by a quarterback in NFL history. But that wasn’t the case.

“I don’t think (Young) has either of those in his skill set,” the coach said. “But I do think he can play the position at a high level.”

Much has been made about Reich’s history with tall quarterbacks. In 17 seasons as a head coach, offensive coordinator or quarterback coach, all but six games have been started by QBs 6-4 or taller. And the exceptions were the 6-3 Ryan Lindley and 6-1 Sam Ehlinger, who was Jim Irsay’s choice last year just before the Colts owner fired Reich.

Then again, the guy with final say on the Panthers’ roster has a history with one of the NFL’s most successful, diminutive quarterbacks. Fitterer was Seattle’s college scouting director when the Seahawks drafted Russell Wilson in 2012. Of course, that was with the 75th pick, not the first.

Brugler said there’s no precedent when it comes to taking someone like Young at No. 1.

“He’s a complete outlier. We’ve just never seen anybody like this before. But we never saw anyone quite like Drew Brees before. We never saw anyone quite like Kyler Murray before, and Russell Wilson,” Brugler said.

“There’s always outliers that turn into — he can do it. Everything from the neck up is elite. If you’re gonna bet on a guy, I’m gonna bet on the instincts, the football IQ, the accuracy and just hope he stays healthy, which is not the most sound plan. But that’s kind of what you have to do with Bryce Young.”
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theathletic.com

Is momentum growing for Bryce Young to be the Panthers' pick at No. 1?

“He's a complete outlier," The Athletic's Dane Brugler said of Young. "We’ve just never seen anybody like this before."
theathletic.com theathletic.com
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1645443471073787906

• I don’t know whether the Panthers have made a final decision on which quarterback they’ll take with the first pick. I believe if they had to make that pick today, it would be Alabama QB Bryce Young—and breadcrumbs, at this point, are all over the trail Carolina has traveled.

While the Panthers did travel deep to the quarterback pro days, owners David and Nicole Tepper were on the ground for only the throwing sessions of Young and Ohio State’s C.J. Stroud. Previous obligations kept them from seeing Will Levis throw live at Kentucky (they did make it to dinner with Levis the night before) or getting to Anthony Richardson’s pro day at Florida, which was right after the owners’ meetings. So read into that what you will.

Also, the Teppers, I’m told, spent a good amount of time with Young’s parents at the Alabama pro day, and my understanding is Young has acquitted himself incredibly well in his meetings with Panthers coach Frank Reich.

And then, there’s this one last puzzle piece: Young did really well on the S2 test, a cognitive assessment to measure processing speed that some teams put a lot of stock in when it comes to evaluating quarterbacks. (Joe Burrow and Justin Fields were high scorers on the test in recent years.) Close to half the NFL’s 32 teams subscribe to the test, the Panthers being one of them. Tepper is also said to be a believer in it.

Again, it’s not over yet. The Panthers will have the quarterbacks in for 30 visits this week, as well as into the beginning of next, to tie up every last loose end with each of them. But I think Young’s in good shape to go first.

• It’s tough to get a real read on what the Texans are doing at No. 2, but I’m less convinced it’ll be a quarterback than I was a month ago. If Young were to fall to them, then, yeah, I think Houston will take him. If not? It’s probably a little murkier.

The evidence I have comes down to Houston’s effort to go up to No. 1—at one point, the Texans and Bears were closing in on a deal that’d have the teams flipping spots, with Chicago then doing a deal with Carolina to drop from No. 2 to 9. Houston got a little uncomfortable with it in the end, and the Bears moved forward in doing their deal with the Panthers.

What can we take from that? Well, Houston’s willingness to go up to first tells us there’s a quarterback it likes enough to take there (otherwise, there’d be no reason to go up). But what if the Texans had only one quarterback they saw as worthy of a top-two pick? Add that to the fact that Houston GM Nick Caserio and coach DeMeco Ryans weren’t traveling all over kingdom come to quarterback pro days, and there’s definitely some mystery here.

If it’s not a quarterback, I’d expect Caserio to try to trade down. I still think it’ll wind up being one (likely Stroud, in particular), especially with ownership a little more involved this year. But I’m not 100% sure of it.
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TexansThunder said:
Top 5 in red zone efficiency
3rd fewest tackles for a loss in SEC
Held DE Will Anderson in check in Tennessee’s 52-49 victory over Alabama.
Well coached unit.
The Vols OL earned its status as a Joe Moore award semi-finalist.

I could probably talk about the Vols all day - huge fan.
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What are your thoughts as to Hendon Hooker being unable to read the entire defensive field?
 
Lucky said:
Do you mean Jonathan Mingo? Because Marvin Mims is 5'11" 183 Lbs.
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Yeah I don't see the shorter WRs as much of an issue since most of the DBs are around the 6' mark.
But ...having tall receivers is an advantage as they should reach higher.
 
zshawn10 said:
SI actually; Albert Breer

https://twitter.com/x/status/1645460498236702727
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"The evidence I have comes down to Houston’s effort to go up to No. 1—at one point, the Texans and Bears were closing in on a deal that’d have the teams flipping spots, with Chicago then doing a deal with Carolina to drop from No. 2 to 9. Houston got a little uncomfortable with it in the end, and the Bears moved forward in doing their deal with the Panthers.

What can we take from that? Well, Houston’s willingness to go up to first tells us there’s a quarterback it likes enough to take there (otherwise, there’d be no reason to go up). But what if the Texans had only one quarterback they saw as worthy of a top-two pick? Add that to the fact that Houston GM Nick Caserio and coach DeMeco Ryans weren’t traveling all over kingdom come to quarterback pro days, and there’s definitely some mystery here.

If it’s not a quarterback, I’d expect Caserio to try to trade down. I still think it’ll wind up being one (likely Stroud, in particular), especially with ownership a little more involved this year. But I’m not 100% sure of it."
 
zshawn10 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1645469674040066057
https://twitter.com/x/status/1645469071503130630

https://twitter.com/x/status/1645471991116202001

https://twitter.com/x/status/1645470257841045522
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Accidental leak of Young's S2 Cognition test score results? I seriously doubt that. If anyone wants to be truly honest, without knowing his actual score and all the other top QB's scores in this year's Draft, we known nothing about how much significance there is in Young's "superiority." Is the difference in scores 1 or 2 or 5 or 10 percentage points.............and what would that difference in practicality really mean?

And another point for those who are not familiar with how the test works................the final % score is an average of 4 separate evaluations weighed equally......................% visual learning; % instinctive learning; % impulse control; % improvisation. In order to make any valid decisions/conclusions on who a team should take, it would certainly be important to know the breakdown of the total % score. We as fans at this point do not have access to the information that could make our opinions more justifiable.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
Accidental leak of Young's S2 Cognition test score results? I seriously doubt that. If anyone wants to be truly honest, without knowing his actual score and all the other top QB's scores in this year's Draft, we known nothing about how much significance there is in Young's "superiority." Is the difference in scores 1 or 2 or 5 or 10 percentage points.............and what would that difference in practicality really mean?

And another point for those who are not familiar with how the test works................the final % score is an average of 4 separate evaluations weighed equally......................% visual learning; % instinctive learning; % impulse control; % improvisation. It would certainly be important to know the breakdown of the total % score.
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The company recently looked at 27 starting quarterbacks. (Some of the older veterans like Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers had entered the league before S2 began testing in 2015 and there are no scores for them; Brees took the test while already playing in the NFL.) Of that group, 13 had a career passer rating above 90. The average S2 score of those players was the 91st percentile. Those with passer ratings below 90 had much lower test results.

“Those 14 guys, the average score was in the low 60s,” Ally said.

“We’ve been doing the NFL draft for seven years,” Ally said. “From an S2 Cognitive perspective, last year was the worst year we’ve ever had score-wise. And this year is by far and away the best we’ve ever had, score-wise, at the quarterback position.”
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theathletic.com

Introducing the S2 Cognition test that helps predict NFL quarterback success

The top NFL quarterbacks tend to score high on the S2 Cognition test that 800 draft prospects take each year. Purdy aced his exam last year.
theathletic.com theathletic.com
 
but Justin Fields aced this test yet many feel he doesn't read the field well

TJ Houshmanzadeh, "we were just talking about this on Friday, me and Bryce. He was like...there's one thing to understand what to do but when you say SET HUT - Can you process it fast enough?

We just had this discussion on Friday, that, a lot of guys can tell you what to do & they'll break it down BUT when you have to to do it and that pass-rush is coming...it's different. It's completely different."

11:30 mark
 
Signs keep pointing to Bryce Young at No. 1 to Carolina
Posted by Mike Florio on April 10, 2023, 1:00 PM EDT

As the 2023 draft inches closer, the quarterback who stands barely above 70 of them may be the selection of the Panthers.

Last Monday, Peter King gave real credence to the possibility of Bryce Young being Carolina’s selection, despite previous indications pointing to C.J. Stroud. Chris Mortensen of ESPN did some of the same later in the week.

Today, both King and Albert Breer of SI.com add more fuel to the Bryce Young to Carolina fire.

“The momentum toward Young is real,” King writes.

Breer adds that David Tepper and his wife, Nicole, spent “a good amount of time” with Young’s parents at the Alabama Pro Day, and that Young “acquitted himself incredibly well” when meeting with coach Frank Reich. Breer also notes that Young “did really well” on a cognitive test aimed at measuring processing speeds for quarterbacks.

Tepper, per Breer, is a “big believer” in the so-called S2 test.

Frankly, I’m a big believer in Tepper’s ultimate influence over the final decision. If he wants Young, he’ll get Young. And he won’t have to say, “I want Young.” Those who work for him will know where he stands, and they’ll act accordingly.

But that won’t change the fact that Young is just over five-ten, and most likely more than a few pounds under 200 pounds when in uniform. An unnamed coach shared this with King about Young’s size.

“Alabama’s line was superior, and Young consistently had enough time to throw,” the unnamed coach said. “Taking away nothing from him, because he made the throws and made the plays to be great. But the offensive line for him will be crucial. Think of the defensive coordinators he’ll face, and how much they’ll emphasize putting good hits on him. I don’t see how that’s not a big factor when you put a grade on him.”

It’s an even bigger factor when considering the recent struggles of Tua Tagovailoa. The physics aren’t on his side. His body hits the ground, his helmet hits the turf.

That same thing could happen to Young. It’s one of the risks the team that drafts him will be assuming. And while the potential rewards are tremendous, it’s important for the team that takes Young to strike the right balance — especially if it’s the team that moved from No. 9 to No. 1.
 
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tomjn80 said:
"The evidence I have comes down to Houston’s effort to go up to No. 1—at one point, the Texans and Bears were closing in on a deal that’d have the teams flipping spots, with Chicago then doing a deal with Carolina to drop from No. 2 to 9."
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That's all coming from chest-thumping Bear's GM Ryan Poles. No evidence the Texans were close on moving to #1. And if the Bears still had in place a deal with Carolina for a #2 to #9 swap, the Panthers had to be comfortable with Stroud all along. None of this adds up.
 
TheRealJoker said:
That’s an ugly three cone for a WR
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What everyone said about DK Metcalf's 7.38 3 cone. Making tight little cuts in the middle of the field is not their game.

It should be noted that the Patriots (Hoodie & Nick) dealt the pick to Seattle that the Seahawks took Metcalf with. The Pats took Chase Winovich & Hjalte Froholdt with the picks from that trade.
 
Lucky said:
What everyone said about DK Metcalf's 7.38 3 cone. Making tight little cuts in the middle of the field is not their game.

It should be noted that the Patriots (Hoodie & Nick) dealt the pick to Seattle that the Seahawks took Metcalf with. The Pats took Chase Winovich & Hjalte Froholdt with the picks from that trade.
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Metcalf also ran 4.33 40 compared to Johnston’s 4.52 and went in the 2nd round (where Johnston should go).
 
I actually agree with Simms if the emphasis is pass rushing. I might have him a bit higher. I’ve been saying Anderson will be merely good, Not great at the next level. In terms of production he is a Clowney imho. He might be a 10 sack guy which is certainly good, but not elite. I could be all wet, but when I watch him, I don’t see true elite as a pass rusher. Good overall player and will help any D he is in, definitely a first rounder…borderline top 10 guy on my list. Not a generational player imho.

remember…Attack the opinion not the poster. Hard hat on…awaiting incoming rounds!
 
Lucky said:
I think he just pulls this shiite out of a hat. And laughs at people taking his opinion seriously.
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Wilson is much slower than WA and raw. Hell, even Myles Murphy is much faster at the same size!
Wilson will take time to develop.
WA is not a one trick pony - he is also excellent at stuffing the run and running with backs and TEs.
 
If Stroud/Young and Anderson are there when we pick I would trade for the 3rd pick to get a qb and Anderson.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I agree with trying to avoid the Texans QB development curse. I hope things follow your proposed scenario. "I want what I want when I want it" in human psychology is a sign of a psychoneurotic/sociopathic pattern of need for instant gratification.........a pattern that the Texans have repeatedly demonstrated. rather than patience for development.
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Daddy, "I want an Oompa Loompa Now"!!!!!
 
Porky said:
Good overall player and will help any D he is in, definitely a first rounder…borderline top 10 guy on my list. Not a generational player imho.
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You must have felt Derrick Thomas was a borderline guy also

I don't know who you get your opinions from, but I don't think you research players at all
 
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