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2023 Free Agency

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Ogbo wasn’t a major loss imo but yes i agree about Hughes. Im kinda just thinking we won’t necessarily need Hughes to be what he was last year tho if Anderson is drafted because he then becomes that guy. and between Rankins, Greenard, Winovich and Hughes, the pass rush is infinitely better than what it was last year.
… I forgot about Greenard. Shame how often that happens.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
It’s kinda frustrating discussing free agency with people that think signing people is like signing player in Madden. These are real people. They have to move their families. They have to change schemes. They have to (in some ways) bet their career on what the coaches on the team want to do with them. You don’t just tell people “PFF has you graded here, so we’re only going to pay you this.”

Very detached from reality.
I'm a fan of building through the draft and supplementing the roster in FA. The Texans have so many holes that it would be irresponsible to sign several big-name FAs. Teams always end up overpaying good players as if they were elite players.
We don't know any of the conversations going on between the coaching staff and the front office. I'd wager that if one of the coaches pounded the table for a player, Caserio would try to make it happen.
Football is a business. The front offices know that. The players know that. It's also a two-way street. The Texans are in rebuild mode. There's probably some interest in playing for Ryans, but I would imagine that for most players, it would cost more to lure them to Houston.
 

EllisUnit

Vote RED!!!
Not sure what people are expecting... it is obvious we are just signing these guy to short term deals to fill the roster while we build through the draft all while keeping ourselves out of future cap hell. What is the point of spending big in free agency when we have so many holes? I could see if we were 1 or 2 players away but we're not. It is smart how they are doing it IMO, infact I hope they trade the #2 overall pick away and move back and get some more picks.
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
I'm all in on Hooker and info I'm leaning on indicates to me he will start no later than game 5. Others I've listened to about Keenum say he will do whatever he's asked. If he could start and play well, that would allow any QB to get better. I would not take at 12 as info indicates round 2 to 104. A risk as is everything but one willing to take.
So he misses OTAs and training camp, but will be able to START by week 5? Really?
 

wildroot

Rookie
Connor McGovern's still out there, C/Jets.
Maybe we're waiting for the price to start dropping as desperation seeps into the psyche of some of these players when the thought of being left outside in the cold starts to become a reality. Maybe the wives will start to pressure the husbands to find a team to sign with.
Bunch of good LBs, Edges, WRs, CBs OTs, OGs, guessing it's a $$$ thing. You could build a decent team with some of the names that remain unsigned!
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
Connor McGovern's still out there, C/Jets.
Maybe we're waiting for the price to start dropping as desperation seeps into the psyche of some of these players when the thought of being left outside in the cold starts to become a reality. Maybe the wives will start to pressure the husbands to find a team to sign with.
Bunch of good LBs, Edges, WRs, CBs OTs, OGs, guessing it's a $$$ thing. You could build a decent team with some of the names that remain unsigned!
The centers that have been signed have gone for reasonable contracts. At this point I suspect teams (like the Texans) are going to wait until post draft to see whether they want to add a starting option like Mcgovern.
 

Porky

Hall of Fame
So he misses OTAs and training camp, but will be able to START by week 5? Really?
[/QUOTE]

Ya I don't buy that either. And that's just the physical side. All indications are this guy has played in a fairly unique offense and hasn't been tasked with reading D's like a pro QB needs to. It's one thing to declare the knee is ready. It's another to declare the brain is ready. I am not a Hooker hater. In fact, I like Hooker. Not that there's anything wrong with that. That's what she said.

Back to serious...If you bring in a guy like Case, you're not drafting Hooker, Richardson or another project that needs lots of development time. If I have said it once, I've said it 10,000 times. There are only two guys that are universally seen as ready to play at a "relatively" high level as a rookie, and we all know who those two guys are.

Most likely, Panthers nab Stroud. We take Young. Off chance, they take Young, in which case we take Stroud. If they come out of left field and grab AR, then the Texans take their pick of Stroud or Young - most likely Young IMHO. That's it folks. They aren't taking a D player. They aren't trading down unless they get a massive haul.
 

cuppacoffee

Resident Grouch
So he misses OTAs and training camp, but will be able to START by week 5? Really?
Ya I don't buy that either. And that's just the physical side. All indications are this guy has played in a fairly unique offense and hasn't been tasked with reading D's like a pro QB needs to. It's one thing to declare the knee is ready. It's another to declare the brain is ready. I am not a Hooker hater. In fact, I like Hooker. Not that there's anything wrong with that. That's what she said.

Back to serious...If you bring in a guy like Case, you're not drafting Hooker, Richardson or another project that needs lots of development time. If I have said it once, I've said it 10,000 times. There are only two guys that are universally seen as ready to play at a "relatively" high level as a rookie, and we all know who those two guys are.

Most likely, Panthers nab Stroud. We take Young. Off chance, they take Young, in which case we take Stroud. If they come out of left field and grab AR, then the Texans take their pick of Stroud or Young - most likely Young IMHO. That's it folks. They aren't taking a D player. They aren't trading down unless they get a massive haul.
[/QUOTE]


Guess that means it must be true? :spit:

:coffee:
 

Porky

Hall of Fame
Ya I don't buy that either. And that's just the physical side. All indications are this guy has played in a fairly unique offense and hasn't been tasked with reading D's like a pro QB needs to. It's one thing to declare the knee is ready. It's another to declare the brain is ready. I am not a Hooker hater. In fact, I like Hooker. Not that there's anything wrong with that. That's what she said.

Back to serious...If you bring in a guy like Case, you're not drafting Hooker, Richardson or another project that needs lots of development time. If I have said it once, I've said it 10,000 times. There are only two guys that are universally seen as ready to play at a "relatively" high level as a rookie, and we all know who those two guys are.

Most likely, Panthers nab Stroud. We take Young. Off chance, they take Young, in which case we take Stroud. If they come out of left field and grab AR, then the Texans take their pick of Stroud or Young - most likely Young IMHO. That's it folks. They aren't taking a D player. They aren't trading down unless they get a massive haul.

Guess that means it must be true? :spit:

:coffee:
[/QUOTE]

Feel free to live in your make-believe world. To each his own. Say hi to your invisible friend for me.
 

AcresHomesTexan

No Longer Arlington: Escaped From Jerry's World
Staff member
[/QUOTE]

Most likely, Panthers nab Stroud. We take Young. Off chance, they take Young, in which case we take Stroud. If they come out of left field and grab AR, then the Texans take their pick of Stroud or Young - most likely Young IMHO. That's it folks. They aren't taking a D player. They aren't trading down unless they get a massive haul.
[/QUOTE]

Quote for truth or better I agree with this exactly and need to wait 6 weeks to see if we are actually correct.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Most likely, Panthers nab Stroud. We take Young. Off chance, they take Young, in which case we take Stroud. If they come out of left field and grab AR, then the Texans take their pick of Stroud or Young - most likely Young IMHO. That's it folks. They aren't taking a D player. They aren't trading down unless they get a massive haul.
[/QUOTE]

Quote for truth or better I agree with this exactly and need to wait 6 weeks to see if we are actually correct.
[/QUOTE]
The only hiccup here that I can see is if Hannah refuses to let Cal do business with Mulgheta.
 
Interesting he's doing physical therapy for a labrum injury and will be cleared by April. I wonder when he had his surgery?

Interesting because this is one of the concerns raised by CnD about Young and I suggested the possibility for him not throwing was the possibility of physical therapy for repair of his labrum.
Yeah I’m awaiting the physical results. If he can pass the physical, I’d be willing to take a flier on him.
 

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
Interesting he's doing physical therapy for a labrum injury and will be cleared by April. I wonder when he had his surgery?

Interesting because this is one of the concerns raised by CnD about Young and I suggested the possibility for him not throwing was the possibility of physical therapy for repair of his labrum.
I don't think it's near as concerning in a ILB
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
I'm a fan of building through the draft and supplementing the roster in FA. The Texans have so many holes that it would be irresponsible to sign several big-name FAs. Teams always end up overpaying good players as if they were elite players.
We don't know any of the conversations going on between the coaching staff and the front office. I'd wager that if one of the coaches pounded the table for a player, Caserio would try to make it happen.
Football is a business. The front offices know that. The players know that. It's also a two-way street. The Texans are in rebuild mode. There's probably some interest in playing for Ryans, but I would imagine that for most players, it would cost more to lure them to Houston.
Building through the draft is the preferred and probably smart way to go about putting together a team, but that doesn't mean you have to sign a bunch of JAGs in the FA portion, especially 30+ year olds. You're not going to find any diamonds in the rough that way to help the process along. I mean, how do you keep a scrub like Eric Murray and let a guy walk who you brought in last year (Okoronkwo) that showed signs of maybe being one of those diamonds?

You get a QB and a couple of playmakers in the draft, and things can turn around pretty quickly. Well, it can if the rest of your roster isn't nothing but JAGs on the downside of their careers. I don't have a problem with the lesser named FAs the Texans sign other than they need to be signing younger guys. Not these guys trying to get 1 more paycheck that have no chance to be part of your future.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
So he misses OTAs and training camp, but will be able to START by week 5? Really?
Ya I don't buy that either. And that's just the physical side. All indications are this guy has played in a fairly unique offense and hasn't been tasked with reading D's like a pro QB needs to. It's one thing to declare the knee is ready. It's another to declare the brain is ready. I am not a Hooker hater. In fact, I like Hooker. Not that there's anything wrong with that. That's what she said.

Back to serious...If you bring in a guy like Case, you're not drafting Hooker, Richardson or another project that needs lots of development time. If I have said it once, I've said it 10,000 times. There are only two guys that are universally seen as ready to play at a "relatively" high level as a rookie, and we all know who those two guys are.

Most likely, Panthers nab Stroud. We take Young. Off chance, they take Young, in which case we take Stroud. If they come out of left field and grab AR, then the Texans take their pick of Stroud or Young - most likely Young IMHO. That's it folks. They aren't taking a D player. They aren't trading down unless they get a massive haul.
[/QUOTE]
As Has been mentioned, Hooker played 2 seasons for Virginia Tech in an offense that is transferable to a West Coast offense. Signing Keenum doesn't rule out Hooker. Your assumption 10,000 of them that he will be a project continues to be incorrect.
Richardson and Stroud are hot now due to AR combine and Stround first discussed as who fits Panthers desires. Young cooling as he didn't throw in combine and allegedly delayed which Alabama pro day he will.

Hooker as mentioned is under radar healing.
 

Khelar

Rookie
Building through the draft is the preferred and probably smart way to go about putting together a team, but that doesn't mean you have to sign a bunch of JAGs in the FA portion, especially 30+ year olds. You're not going to find any diamonds in the rough that way to help the process along. I mean, how do you keep a scrub like Eric Murray and let a guy walk who you brought in last year (Okoronkwo) that showed signs of maybe being one of those diamonds?

You get a QB and a couple of playmakers in the draft, and things can turn around pretty quickly. Well, it can if the rest of your roster isn't nothing but JAGs on the downside of their careers. I don't have a problem with the lesser named FAs the Texans sign other than they need to be signing younger guys. Not these guys trying to get 1 more paycheck that have no chance to be part of your future.
It seems like they’re trying to use a lot of these free agents to be watchable in the short term while keeping the cap situation intact and building up the roster from the draft.

I think ideally these next 2 drafts+last year provide a young core, you shed these older guys in a couple years and then use the money to plug up whatever holes you missed on in the draft and make a legitimate push.
I could be wrong and who knows if it’ll work but that’s my best guess
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Not after they sign this year's draft class, resign Tunsil and Howard. They may have $50 million but they are spending.
Extension for both tackles will mostly pay for draft pool. Also pool could be significantly less if tradedowns.

I am surprised Tunsil has not been extended yet.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Extension for both tackles will mostly pay for draft pool. Also pool could be significantly less if tradedowns.

I am surprised Tunsil has not been extended yet.
This year's draft class will cost approx. $20MM a year. Tunsil wants $25MM a year, and Tytus will want $18MM - $20MM. None of these numbers are part of the 2024 salary cap.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
This year's draft class will cost approx. $20MM a year. Tunsil wants $25MM a year, and Tytus will want $18MM - $20MM. None of these numbers are part of the 2024 salary cap.
$150- 25 -18 = 107 m.
A rework can reduce Tunsil's 2023 cap $11 m+.

This has been discussed before. Not sure why you're bringing it up again.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
Bortles played in the AFC Championship game and no Texans QB has. What's to debate?
2017 Jaguars Defense
#2 Overall
#1 Passing
#2 Rushing
#2 Scoring
#2 Turnovers

2017 Jaguars Offense
#6 Overall
#16 Passing
#1 Rushing
#5 Scoring
#21 Turnovers

2017 Bortles Regular Season
#18 Yards per game
#16 Touchdowns
#7 Most Interceptions
#20 QB Rating

2017 Bortles Playoffs going into AFCCG
Buffalo Win - 87 yards on 52% with 1 TD
Pittsburgh Win - 214 yards on 53% with 1 TD

An amazing defense, an amazing running game, mediocre QB play all season and playoffs.

You are very crafty in how you word things to be very careful NOT to say that he is the reason they got to the AFCCG, but in the end all that you are really saying is that he was on the 53-man roster that played in an AFCCG.

And somehow that makes him more successful than Schaub or Watson. Based on that logic, I contend that David Carr is more successful than Jim Kelly. At least Carr won a Super Bowl.
 

Hottoddie

Veteran
It looks like the free agency spending could be coming to an end soon. They're down to just $17.3 million in cap space for this year, unless they cut some more players or restructure some contracts. Extending Tunsil would get them some more cap space though. Does anyone know what the draft pick cap space is?

1679023907538.png
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
Does anyone know what the draft pick cap space is?
The numbers are on the overthecap draft page.

So the Texans will need $11 million to make their picks, $19.3 million to sign their picks.

The Texans would be fine if not for the Tunsil and Cooks contracts that eat $61.7 million of the cap. And let's be clear on this: They are both Caserio's contracts at this point. These are problems that don't look like they are going away soon.

The Texans will have to pay a big chunk of Cooks salary for him to play somewhere else in 2023. So expect about $16 million in dead money this year and another $8 million in 2024. Who is going to want a 30 year old whiny locker room lawyer WR that's lost a step? I'd see what Antonio Brown is up to, first.

The best thing to do with Tunsil is keep him thru 2023, tag him in 2024 with the non-exclusive tag, and see if you can get a 2nd and a future 3rd in next year's draft. My gut feeling is that Tunsil is not a Ryans guy.
 

Hottoddie

Veteran
The numbers are on the overthecap draft page.



So the Texans will need $11 million to make their picks, $19.3 million to sign their picks.

The Texans would be fine if not for the Tunsil and Cooks contracts that eat $61.7 million of the cap. And let's be clear on this: They are both Caserio's contracts at this point. These are problems that don't look like they are going away soon.

The Texans will have to pay a big chunk of Cooks salary for him to play somewhere else in 2023. So expect about $16 million in dead money this year and another $8 million in 2024. Who is going to want a 30 year old whiny locker room lawyer WR that's lost a step? I'd see what Antonio Brown is up to, first.

The best thing to do with Tunsil is keep him thru 2023, tag him in 2024 with the non-exclusive tag, and see if you can get a 2nd and a future 3rd in next year's draft. My gut feeling is that Tunsil is not a Ryans guy.
Cool! Thank you.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Interesting he's doing physical therapy for a labrum injury and will be cleared by April. I wonder when he had his surgery?

Interesting because this is one of the concerns raised by CnD about Young and I suggested the possibility for him not throwing was the possibility of physical therapy for repair of his labrum.
Perryman underwent shoulder labrum tear repair December 25 last year. He will likely be able to return to begin doing sports-specific exercises (not return to play) after ~12 weeks (the end of March to the beginning of April), although it will be ~6months before the shoulder is fully healed. Once he has fully strengthened his shoulder and is able to return to a regular season game play (~25% do not), under normal circumstances, he can be expected to return to pre-injury level. I know that Perryman's recent problem was caused by a formal shoulder dislocation (not widely publicized). So no doubt, he suffered ligament damage, and quite possibly a rotator cuff tear, making his return and performance level somewhat less predictable.
 
Perryman underwent shoulder labrum tear repair December 25 last year. He will likely be able to return to begin doing sports-specific exercises (not return to play) after ~12 weeks (the end of March to the beginning of April), although it will be ~6months before the shoulder is fully healed. Once he has fully strengthened his shoulder and is able to return to a regular season game play (~25% do not), under normal circumstances, he can be expected to return to pre-injury level. I know that Perryman's recent problem was caused by a formal shoulder dislocation (not widely publicized). So no doubt, he suffered ligament damage, and quite possibly a rotator cuff tear, making his return and performance level somewhat less predictable.
It makes a lot of sense as to why they have done an extended visit. Ran him through the medical ringer before making a decision. A very non-Texans decision.
 

michaelm

vox nihili
To the capologists:

It seems to me with all 1-2 year contracts Caserio has been signing players to, there should be quite a few players at the bottom of the top 51 that can be cut and potentially upgraded with little to no additional cap space.
Is that the case?

At the very least, some of those players who don't fit DeMeco's scheme/style should be easy to replace, or so I'd think
 

banned1976

sleeper mode
So he misses OTAs and training camp, but will be able to START by week 5? Really?
Ya I don't buy that either. And that's just the physical side. All indications are this guy has played in a fairly unique offense and hasn't been tasked with reading D's like a pro QB needs to. It's one thing to declare the knee is ready. It's another to declare the brain is ready. I am not a Hooker hater. In fact, I like Hooker. Not that there's anything wrong with that. That's what she said.

Back to serious...If you bring in a guy like Case, you're not drafting Hooker, Richardson or another project that needs lots of development time. If I have said it once, I've said it 10,000 times. There are only two guys that are universally seen as ready to play at a "relatively" high level as a rookie, and we all know who those two guys are.

Most likely, Panthers nab Stroud. We take Young. Off chance, they take Young, in which case we take Stroud. If they come out of left field and grab AR, then the Texans take their pick of Stroud or Young - most likely Young IMHO. That's it folks. They aren't taking a D player. They aren't trading down unless they get a massive haul.
[/QUOTE]
I’m a Hooker guy, NOT to be confused with a guy Hooker.
 

Porky

Hall of Fame
The numbers are on the overthecap draft page.



So the Texans will need $11 million to make their picks, $19.3 million to sign their picks.

The Texans would be fine if not for the Tunsil and Cooks contracts that eat $61.7 million of the cap. And let's be clear on this: They are both Caserio's contracts at this point. These are problems that don't look like they are going away soon.

The Texans will have to pay a big chunk of Cooks salary for him to play somewhere else in 2023. So expect about $16 million in dead money this year and another $8 million in 2024. Who is going to want a 30 year old whiny locker room lawyer WR that's lost a step? I'd see what Antonio Brown is up to, first.

The best thing to do with Tunsil is keep him thru 2023, tag him in 2024 with the non-exclusive tag, and see if you can get a 2nd and a future 3rd in next year's draft. My gut feeling is that Tunsil is not a Ryans guy.
Good point Re: Tunsil. This might be why they were in talks with KC. I've been a critic of Tunsil's but I came around on the guy because he is one of the best pass blocking tackles in the league and those guys don't grow on trees. OTOH, he's a bit passive and more of a finesse player and I think Demeco is looking for the physical type that can move people in the run game and/or with a nastier demeanor. I've also been critical of his overall demeanor off/on field, which for me is a bit lackadaisical and nonchalant. I just get the sense that he likes the greenbacks more than the game. Agreed or am I out in left field?

I'd like to get more than what you suggested. A 2nd and 3rd isn't enough. I need a #1, a #3 + a quality starter in a weak area before I consider a trade. Which is still less than we paid for him BTW.
 

frethack

Rookie
The numbers are on the overthecap draft page.



So the Texans will need $11 million to make their picks, $19.3 million to sign their picks.

The Texans would be fine if not for the Tunsil and Cooks contracts that eat $61.7 million of the cap. And let's be clear on this: They are both Caserio's contracts at this point. These are problems that don't look like they are going away soon.

The Texans will have to pay a big chunk of Cooks salary for him to play somewhere else in 2023. So expect about $16 million in dead money this year and another $8 million in 2024. Who is going to want a 30 year old whiny locker room lawyer WR that's lost a step? I'd see what Antonio Brown is up to, first.

The best thing to do with Tunsil is keep him thru 2023, tag him in 2024 with the non-exclusive tag, and see if you can get a 2nd and a future 3rd in next year's draft. My gut feeling is that Tunsil is not a Ryans guy.
For Cooks, a Post June 1 trade would cut the 2023 dead money in half...about 8-mil. Still not good, but will create 18mil in cap savings to offset. I see a lot of passive/aggressive Brandin Cooks tweets in our near future.

Totally agree about Tunsil, if indeed he is not a Ryans/Slowik guy.
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
Good point Re: Tunsil. This might be why they were in talks with KC. I've been a critic of Tunsil's but I came around on the guy because he is one of the best pass blocking tackles in the league and those guys don't grow on trees. OTOH, he's a bit passive and more of a finesse player and I think Demeco is looking for the physical type that can move people in the run game and/or with a nastier demeanor. I've also been critical of his overall demeanor off/on field, which for me is a bit lackadaisical and nonchalant. I just get the sense that he likes the greenbacks more than the game. Agreed or am I out in left field?

I'd like to get more than what you suggested. A 2nd and 3rd isn't enough. I need a #1, a #3 + a quality starter in a weak area before I consider a trade. Which is still less than we paid for him BTW.
I believe that was only a rumor.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
It seems like they’re trying to use a lot of these free agents to be watchable in the short term while keeping the cap situation intact and building up the roster from the draft.

I think ideally these next 2 drafts+last year provide a young core, you shed these older guys in a couple years and then use the money to plug up whatever holes you missed on in the draft and make a legitimate push.
I could be wrong and who knows if it’ll work but that’s my best guess
This is exactly what they seem to be doing and I agree with the philosophy if not the players, contracts, etc. All should realize this is a year to take some risks but build for the future with the draft. Do we have the team in place to evaluate college players and make the right decisions? Personally I want to see huge seasons from our last draft crop including Pierce who was average in all categories. Yeah, I know but look them up 13 games 220 attempts [tied for 13th]; yards 939 [17th]; 4TDs [31st]; avg/carry 2.3 [31st]. Good for a 4th round rookie but I want more from a starter.
 


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