Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!

2019 NFL Draft 1st Round discussion

beerlover said:
Howard did not have a first round grade by ANYBODY BUT THE HOUSTON TEXANS.
Click to expand...
Couldn't you have said pretty much the same thing about Duane Brown in 2008?

Edit: This reminds me so much of how I felt in the 2008 draft. I so wanted the Texans to move up and take Chris Williams, the LT out of Vandy. He went much earlier and became a bust due to a bad back. I was OK with Brown, because the Texans desperately needed a LT. Hopefully, history repeats itself here.
 
beerlover said:
...Howard did not have a first round grade by ANYBODY BUT THE HOUSTON TEXANS. Now Tytus and Texans must prove they we’re right on the field.
Click to expand...

How do you know that? How could you possibly say that? What an absurd statement.

What you really mean is that the media people you get your opinions from didn't have a first round grade on him. Those people aren't sitting in NFL war rooms and have no idea what each team has on their board.
 
bah007 said:
Nobody knows who would have selected Howard or where if we didn't do it at #23. We are talking about a player at a premium position.

So if you like the player, there can be no argument about draft capital or value. You used the capital you had and drafted a player you wanted.

Everyone in this thread was saying don't trade up for Dillard. Now some are mad we didn't.

Oddly enough, all of the guys being listed as "value" or players we were "supposed" to take didn't even get drafted in the first round.

Cody Ford would have been a great "value" even though a minimum of 32 teams didn't want him in the first.

But Howard is not a wise use of "value" because a minimum of one team was willing to use a 1st on him.

What a backwards and useless way of thinking about this process.
Click to expand...
Your way is the useless one. First off it’s full of straw man arguments. Too many to even respond to. Howard is a small school guy who has only played the position for a short time and who is weak for an NFL OL. Ford played at the highest level and excelled on the best OL in college football. He has everything you want in a RT or G. Will start for someone right away.

You don’t draft a project even at a premium position when there are quality starters available at other serious weak spots on your team.

Spin this all you want but bottom line is we passed on quality starters for a project. He’s not a bad player but there were and are still players that could of helped other needs right now on a team with many needs.

If Howard doesn’t start day one we missed out on fixing other major needs.
 
Lucky said:
Couldn't you have said pretty much the same thing about Duane Brown in 2008?

Edit: This reminds me so much of how I felt in the 2008 draft. I so wanted the Texans to move up and take Chris Williams, the LT out of Vandy. He went much earlier and became a bust due to a bad back. I was OK with Brown, because the Texans desperately needed a LT. Hopefully, history repeats itself here.
Click to expand...

Texans actually had another deal in 2008 to move down from #26, but Gary Kubiak had a little freak out moment in the draft room.:overreact:
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Lucky, he has had weight problems throughout his career. Last year, he played at ~335 lbs. He got down to 312 only for the Combine, whether because of his knee limitations or to lessen stress on his damaged knee. He did not participate in any Combine activities except for the bench press and blocking drills. Admittedly, he did well in the latter, but this is a small sample of what he will be expected to perform as an NFL tackle. If history is any predictor, he is unlikely to maintain his 312 weight............and if he goes back to his college senior playing weight, his limited performance at the Combine may not be a reflection of what he will look like in the NFL.........and his knee is less likely to hold up over the long term.
Click to expand...

Major medical red flags on Taylor as we first reported three weeks ago. 1) Knee 2) Back 3) Concerns over wild weight fluctuations- was close to 380lbs at times at Florida… Several teams took him off their board as a medical reject.

— Tony Pauline (@TonyPauline) April 26, 2019
 
beerlover said:
Gaine has now proven he is not slight of hand, straight shooter needs on his sleeve, obvious and plain for all to see. Nobody wants to wake a sleeping giant, so Texans will remain non threatening to its adversaries. Howard did not have a first round grade by ANYBODY BUT THE HOUSTON TEXANS. Now Tytus and Texans must prove they we’re right on the field.
Click to expand...
no first round grade but he was going to go at the end of the first by at least the falcons and

https://twitter.com/aaronjreiss/status/1121794227195670530
 
mussop said:
Your way is the useless one. First off it’s full of straw man arguments. Too many to even respond to. Howard is a small school guy who has only played the position for a short time and who is weak for an NFL OL. Ford played at the highest level and excelled on the best OL in college football. He has everything you want in a RT or G. Will start for someone right away.

You don’t draft a project even at a premium position when there are quality starters available at other serious weak spots on your team.

Spin this all you want but bottom line is we passed on quality starters for a project. He’s not a bad player but there were and are still players that could of helped other needs right now on a team with many needs.

If Howard doesn’t start day one we missed out on fixing other major needs.
Click to expand...

32 NFL teams disagree with you about Ford.

There is more than one round in the draft. Odds are we still have a chance to fill our other needs.

Our first round pick hit a major need with a player that even you yourself have admitted to liking. Your entire diatribe only makes sense if you don't like Howard as a player, which you have already said isn't the case.
 
bah007 said:
32 NFL teams disagree with you about Ford.

There is more than one round in the draft. Odds are we still have a chance to fill our other needs.

Our first round pick hit a major need with a player that even you yourself have admitted to liking. Your entire diatribe only makes sense if you don't like Howard as a player, which you have already said isn't the case.
Click to expand...
Do you realize how dumb that first sentence is? And no it didn’t hit a major need if he doesn’t start.
 
mussop said:
Do you realize how dumb that first sentence is? And no it didn’t hit a major need if he doesn’t start.
Click to expand...

No I actually don't. Please explain. I am sure your response will be entirely logical with zero emotional reasoning as to why Ford was passed on by every single NFL team when he is "guaranteed" to be a day one starter.

You have no way of knowing if either of these guys will start or not.
 
mussop said:
Your way is the useless one. First off it’s full of straw man arguments. Too many to even respond to. Howard is a small school guy who has only played the position for a short time and who is weak for an NFL OL. Ford played at the highest level and excelled on the best OL in college football. He has everything you want in a RT or G. Will start for someone right away.

You don’t draft a project even at a premium position when there are quality starters available at other serious weak spots on your team.

Spin this all you want but bottom line is we passed on quality starters for a project. He’s not a bad player but there were and are still players that could of helped other needs right now on a team with many needs.

If Howard doesn’t start day one we missed out on fixing other major needs.
Click to expand...

Wait... you call Howard weak (21 BP) weak while saying Ford (19 BP) is the standard?
 
Porky said:
last night - epic fail.
Click to expand...
[/I][/B]


It is easy to criticize. Very few things are perfect, so there is always something to find fault with. There is little value in criticizing Howard. He is just another player.... doing the best he can. Dillard is special ! He was the best LT in this draft. This head coach and front office doesn't seem to be able to fathom the value or need level, of team/positions/need/luxury. Last night was an epic failure. They traded up one spot to get a player last season, and whoever the he was, he was not nearly as dire the need as was Dillard. Then, to react with knee jerk response, and reach to their next rated left tackle, whom we could have gotten with one of our second round picks, was just as bad. I'm not sure if anyone on the board feels that we have right tackle solved .... but we don't. McGary was right there for us .... but we over reacted and jumped on Howard, who had played left tackle in 2017, but was relegated to right tackle for his redshirt senior tackle .... maybe their are plans for him are on the right side - keeping Davenport at LT .... in which case .... last night was sheer genius !!
 
bah007 said:
Nobody knows who would have selected Howard or where if we didn't do it at #23. We are talking about a player at a premium position.

So if you like the player, there can be no argument about draft capital or value. You used the capital you had and drafted a player you wanted.

Everyone in this thread was saying don't trade up for Dillard. Now some are mad we didn't.

Oddly enough, all of the guys being listed as "value" or players we were "supposed" to take didn't even get drafted in the first round.

Cody Ford would have been a great "value" even though a minimum of 32 teams didn't want him in the first.

But Howard is not a wise use of "value" because a minimum of one team was willing to use a 1st on him.

What a backwards and useless way of thinking about this process.
Click to expand...

I agree with your take o. the situation. I'll add everyone else we've been talking about projects to be a RT or Guard. This guy has the measurables to be a LT. He may not make it. But there was no one else in this draft who might. Maybe he was graded lower, but hard to believe the only other possible le LT in this draft would get to the 2nd or even plate 2nd.

& yeah, can't blame Ricky that everyone in the NFL knew if you wanted Dillard you'd have to jump is.
 
bah007 said:
How do you know that? How could you possibly say that? What an absurd statement.

What you really mean is that the media people you get your opinions from didn't have a first round grade on him. Those people aren't sitting in NFL war rooms and have no idea what each team has on their board.
Click to expand...

Hear Hear !! All of those draft scout - information gatherers out there couldn't hold a candle to the Texans .... especially when it comes to building an offensive line !!
 
bah007 said:
No I actually don't. Please explain. I am sure your response will be entirely logical with zero emotional reasoning as to why Ford was passed on by every single NFL team when he is "guaranteed" to be a day one starter.

You have no way of knowing if either of these guys will start or not.
Click to expand...

It’s a stupid response that gets used every year after the draft.

So should the cardinals have drafted him number 1 over all? No and you know why and it’s not because they don’t think he could be a starting RT. And I could go on and on. Admit it’s stupid and move on.

And yes anyone with half a brain that knows anything about football shouldn’t have to hard time figuring out that either would start over Henderson.
 
justmy2cents said:
[/I][/B]


It is easy to criticize. Very few things are perfect, so there is always something to find fault with. There is little value in criticizing Howard. He is just another player.... doing the best he can. Dillard is special ! He was the best LT in this draft. This head coach and front office doesn't seem to be able to fathom the value or need level, of team/positions/need/luxury. Last night was an epic failure. They traded up one spot to get a player last season, and whoever the he was, he was not nearly as dire the need as was Dillard. Then, to react with knee jerk response, and reach to their next rated left tackle, whom we could have gotten with one of our second round picks, was just as bad. I'm not sure if anyone on the board feels that we have right tackle solved .... but we don't. McGary was right there for us .... but we over reacted and jumped on Howard, who had played left tackle in 2017, but was relegated to right tackle for his redshirt senior tackle .... maybe their are plans for him are on the right side - keeping Davenport at LT .... in which case .... last night was sheer genius !!
Click to expand...

Don't know why people get so hung up on sides... he was blindside protector throughout
 
mussop said:
It’s a stupid response that gets used every year after the draft.

So should the cardinals have drafted him number 1 over all? No and you know why and it’s not because they don’t think he could be a starting RT. And I could go on and on. Admit it’s stupid and move on.

And yes anyone with half a brain that knows anything about football shouldn’t have to hard time figuring out that either would start over Henderson.
Click to expand...

I was unaware that the Cardinals only have one pick in the draft. Is it not possible to pick at #1 and then also get back into the first somewhere else? Nothing stopping any of those teams from trading back in and getting him at the end of the first. Atlanta did it and didn't take Ford.

So now you're saying Howard will start over Henderson but earlier he was a wasted project pick because he won't start?
 
bah007 said:
I was unaware that the Cardinals only have one pick in the draft. Is it not possible to pick at #1 and then also get back into the first somewhere else? Nothing stopping any of those teams from trading back in and getting him at the end of the first. Atlanta did it and didn't take Ford.

So now you're saying Howard will start over Henderson but earlier he was a wasted project pick because he won't start?
Click to expand...

Logic... it doesn't always make sense?
 
bah007 said:
I was unaware that the Cardinals only have one pick in the draft. Is it not possible to pick at #1 and then also get back into the first somewhere else? Nothing stopping any of those teams from trading back in and getting him at the end of the first. Atlanta did it and didn't take Ford.

So now you're saying Howard will start over Henderson but earlier he was a wasted project pick because he won't start?
Click to expand...
Lol
 
JB said:
Meh, day after grades mean nothing... ru jon snow?
Click to expand...

Hmmmm .... John Snow .... who does he play for ? That "Day After Grades" statement reminds me of what I said all through High School .... and you should have seen the scene at Rice's Registration Day !!
 
Porky said:
I had Howard as a potential target in rd 2, but this is a round too early imho. He's got ability and a high upside I grant you. I mean he has potential to become a first round value, but our oline coach and BOB haven't developed anyone yet that "has upside". Anyone? Beuhler?

IMO, Ford was the better prospect overall and a more ready player to come in and be a beast on day one.

Trying to take the positive approach, he has potential to be a good starting RT for the next decade if he can develop. He's the best RT prospect this team has drafted, including a certain 3rd rounder drafted over a decade ago.
Click to expand...

To bring the best out of a player with upside, you MUST have either a great mentor or great OL Coach.....problem, Texans possess neither!!!!!
 
I guess everyone thinks I am mad and upset about this Pick. I’m not mad, we got an OL who may turn out to be good. But from a draft perspective we did not do good in getting value and we took too much of a risk/gamble. It’s more about Philosophy.
JB said:
In common games (senior bowl) Dillard obviously
Click to expand...
 
mussop said:
I guess everyone thinks I am mad and upset about this Pick. I’m not mad, we got an OL who may turn out to be good. But from a draft perspective we did not do good in getting value and we took too much of a risk/gamble. It’s more about Philosophy.
Click to expand...

Fair criticism. It seems like the same GMs every year maximize value manipulating the draft board moving up and down when they see proper value in it. Pats, Seahawks, Ravens and now it looks like the Colts are doing so consistently. Not a lot of teams do it consistently well. But the ones that do... they are pretty good football teams.
 
Lucky said:
Has that really helped Davenport? Sure, we're all giving Howard a chance to prove us right or wrong. It's going to be about whether the guy has what it takes, be it athletic ability to mental toughness. Not so much about who he practices against.
Click to expand...
Of course it has and realize this is effectively his second NFL year. He has no coach and is learning as he go through experience only. No matter who they had drafted, Davenport deserves to see how he can do this season with a solid and healthy LG and a better Watson. Unfortunately Howard will have to learn same way and why I've said he will not start until 2020 at minimum barring taking over for an injured starter which again is probable.
 
Lucky said:
I think it has to be something else that had him drop. I wouldn't let whatever that is stop the Texans if he got to #54. I'm not pushing for another o-lineman in the 2nd. Unless it's someone like Taylor or Erik McCoy.
Click to expand...

If there is some secret kept close to the vest from the public, it would likely be a personal conduct problem that may threaten a long suspension.
 
mussop said:
I guess everyone thinks I am mad and upset about this Pick. I’m not mad, we got an OL who may turn out to be good. But from a draft perspective we did not do good in getting value and we took too much of a risk/gamble. It’s more about Philosophy.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying & to a point I agree. Still there is "what is" & "what is not"

Mock drafts & all the draft speculation is "what is not." Juwan Taylor is not & was not a first round pick, regardless how many people mocked him as a first rounder, or evaluated him as a first rounder, or speculated he "should" be drafted in the first round.

Teams do their research & actually make 1st round picks. They didn't... 32 of 32, make Taylor a 1st round pick. They didn't make Cody Ford a 1st round pick. They didn't make Greedy Williams a 1st round pick.

What is, is that Tytus Howard is a 1st round pick.

I agree with you. I think they should have been able to trade back, pick up additional picks & still get the same player. Obviously the Texans didn't feel confident in their ability to do that, & I have no problem believing they are incompetent.

But I'm not going to say that incompetence is evident if this kid doesn't start day 1. If he doesn't dress day 1, yeah. If he's not the first guy they turn to if "plan A" is our due to injury, yeah. But if he's playing at a high level as a tackle for the next 10 years, I thinkthey'll have accomplished their goal.
 
TheRealJoker said:
Fair criticism. It seems like the same GMs every year maximize value manipulating the draft board moving up and down when they see proper value in it. Pats, Seahawks, Ravens and now it looks like the Colts are doing so consistently. Not a lot of teams do it consistently well. But the ones that do... they are pretty good football teams.
Click to expand...
Colts & Ravens ain't chit
 
WolverineFan said:
The Eagles traded UP for a guy who will be a backup this year.

The same Eagles that just won a SB a year ago.
Click to expand...
Exactly. They just won a super bowl. Their a complete team. We are not. Horrible offensive line, not one legit CB on this team, two starting WRs that are almost always hurt and one on the last year of his contract, one DE you can’t agree with on a contract who we’re trying to trade and another who just turned 30 and has had back issues and no real top end RB. This team has great top end talent and then it just falls off. There is no depth anywhere except maybe LB.

Once we’ve established this team a serious playoff team with very few weaknesses then we can draft differently. Reaching now is STUPID!!!!!
 
mussop said:
Exactly. They just won a super bowl. Their a complete team. We are not. Horrible offensive line, not one legit CB on this team, two starting WRs that are almost always hurt and one on the last year of his contract, one DE you can’t agree with on a contract who we’re trying to trade and another who just turned 30 and has had back issues and no real top end RB. This team has great top end talent and then it just falls off. There is no depth anywhere except maybe LB.

Once we’ve established this team a serious playoff team with very few weaknesses then we can draft differently. Reaching now is STUPID!!!!!
Click to expand...

Getting the best guy to protect your QB is kind of important. They didn't do this when they could've.
 
Texansphan said:
There is a fighting chance he turns into a decent lineman. May take a little time, just like Diane Brown, so until he is proven to be a bust, I will remain hopeful.
Click to expand...


Unless he sustains one of those "bad" injuries, I have little doubt that he will become a decent, serviceable, above average, yeoman .... can't think of the term I want .... tackle. But, the guy that we didn't trade up one spot for, will become a Duane Brown, maybe even better, type .... the type that go to Pro Bowls, when they have injury free years !
 
Whomever wrote this nailed it.
https://amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3...t+Report+Cards&p.adsm=true&p.tcm=#000&p.bgc1m

TEXANS: C-

» Round 1: (No. 23 overall) Tytus Howard, OT, Alabama State.
» Round 2: (54) Lonnie Johnson, CB, Kentucky; (55) Max Scharping, OT, Northern Illinois.
» Round 3: (86) Kahale Warring, TE, San Diego State.
» Round 5: (161) Charles Omenihu, DE, Texas.
» Round 6: (195) Xavier Crawford, CB, Central Michigan.
» Round 7: (220) Cullen Gillaspia, FB, Texas A&M.

We're all in agreement that the Texans had to make protecting Deshaun Watson the focus of their draft after he was sacked a league-high 62 times last season. Unfortunately, the Eaglesknew that, too, and beat Houston to the punch. Yes, Philly traded one spot ahead of the Texansin Round 1 to land the draft's top tackle, Andre Dillard. That stings, and Houston should have seen it coming. The Texans could have traded up for Dillard and no one would have argued with spending a little extra draft capital to fill such a monumental need, but instead they ended up with what seems like a reach in Howard at No. 23 -- he was ranked as the 50th-best prospect by both Jeremiah and Brandt. You like the upside with Howard, a former quarterback ( yes, really), but you just wonder about the value. Bill O'Brien has to hope the Alabama State product and second-rounder Scharping develop and do so more quickly than some expect or this draft could go down as an epic fail. That said, I like the Johnson and Warring picks. Johnson's size and length are his calling card. He had a great Senior Bowl week. Warring is going to need some time to acclimate and work on his blocking, but his athletic traits are tantalizing. Omenihu was a nice value in the fifth round. I'm puzzled and intrigued by this group
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top