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2019 1.23 TYTUS HOWARD OT Alabama State

Are you happy with our first round pick?


  • Total voters
    75
  • Poll closed .

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
You do realize you have posts all over this MB over the years advocating for the org to be run like the Patriots, the Broncos, the Steelers, the Saints, the Seahawks, the Colts, the Vikings, the Rams, the Eagles, the Chiefs, the Packers, the...
l

LoL.

You gotta like that steelb wants to win but watching him chase the tail is entertaining.
 
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sandman

Brexit Advisor
You gotta like that steelb wants to win but watching him chase the tail is entertaining.
Love the man's passion for wanting a Super Bowl champion in this town, but when I see these posts...

"The Texans should be run like..."

*Checks any team that made it farther in the playoffs last year

"The Chiefs"
 
Anyone that had Howard rated higher on their board than Dillard was non-existent. I didn't see one draft expert out there that had Howard rated higher. Dillard was by many accounts 1 of 2 prospects that could come in and start in the NFL from week 1 at Left Tackle. The other guy was Bengals pick jonah williams. So since Dillard was the one who dropped down on draft day, not trading up to get him was stupid and lazy.
 

austins23

Hall of Fame
Anyone that had Howard rated higher on their board than Dillard was non-existent. I didn't see one draft expert out there that had Howard rated higher. Dillard was by many accounts 1 of 2 prospects that could come in and start in the NFL from week 1 at Left Tackle. The other guy was Bengals pick jonah williams. So since Dillard was the one who dropped down on draft day, not trading up to get him was stupid and lazy.
If the Texans wind up starting Tytus Howard and Max Sharping, their first- and second-round picks, as bookend tackles, score it as a big win for second-year GM Brian Gaine. He went into the job with a big need at those spots, and really one left tackle solution on the free-agent market in 2018 (Nate Solder) and one on the market in 2019 (Trent Brown), with no first- or second-round pick last year. Being patient wasn’t easy, of course—the Texans had to make it work with less last year. But they never broke the bank or mortgaged draft capital, and now they have short-term insurance (Matt Kalil, Seantrel Henderson) at those spots, and potential long-term answers. And at affordable prices in an environment where offensive line spending has spiraled upward. Howard, by the way, was the Texans’ target for the two or three weeks leading into draft weekend, and Sharping, for his part, has flashed early in Houston. So keep an eye on those two.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/05/20/colts-2019-offseason-chris-ballard-chris-long-retirement-patrick-peterson-suspension-mmqb
 
Anyone that had Howard rated higher on their board than Dillard was non-existent. I didn't see one draft expert out there that had Howard rated higher. Dillard was by many accounts 1 of 2 prospects that could come in and start in the NFL from week 1 at Left Tackle. The other guy was Bengals pick jonah williams. So since Dillard was the one who dropped down on draft day, not trading up to get him was stupid and lazy.
Not sure how much I'd use the "experts" as an argument considering that the best ones were Todd McShay and Daniel Jeremiah both with 9 out of 32 and the first 2 of those were pretty easy to call. Being right 28%, 21% if you take out the first two as freebies, of the time on something does not equal expert in my book.

https://herosports.com/nfl-draft/accurate-2019-mock-draft-kiper-mcshay-miller-jeremiah-ahah
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
You do realize you have posts all over this MB over the years advocating for the org to be run like the Patriots, the Broncos, the Steelers, the Saints, the Seahawks, the Colts, the Vikings, the Rams, the Eagles, the Chiefs, the Packers, the...
Never have I said the Steelers, Packers.

The rest of the list takes chances in fa, draft.
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
Not sure how much I'd use the "experts" as an argument considering that the best ones were Todd McShay and Daniel Jeremiah both with 9 out of 32 and the first 2 of those were pretty easy to call. Being right 28%, 21% if you take out the first two as freebies, of the time on something does not equal expert in my book.

https://herosports.com/nfl-draft/accurate-2019-mock-draft-kiper-mcshay-miller-jeremiah-ahah
Or you could say 78% & 78%, if you're going by their first round picks actually being taken in the first round.
Looked at that way it doesn't quite fit that "well, they're not experts" agenda, does it?

Care to guess who the first actual first round pick was that NONE of them had on their first round lists?

This is when I hope that Gaine really is the smartest guy in the room...and that Devlin is better than he appears.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
Never have I said the Steelers, Packers.

The rest of the list takes chances in fa, draft.
Eh, I'll give you Steelers but you were all over the Packers FO for a few years, specifically Ron Wolf and his son. And I didn't mention the Cowboys but you've been all about how they built their Oline compared to the Texans.

You stump for a team hard while they are hot, then move on to the next team that is hot. I get it. Unless the FO does things the way you want them done, your opinion is that they will never build a champion.

I have no issue with your opinion, but rather the fallacy of your straw man argument that since they have never won a Super Bowl, your opinion is validated as fact.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
But there is no objective reason to assume Howard will be a better LT than Dillard. All evidence points to Dillard.
I liked the entirety of your post. You're right. It's a moot point. All we can do now is hope for the best.

But as far as all objective reasons... I've read air raid OL don't do well in the NFL. If Dillard has a long career at LT he'll be the first. Never mind any accolades, all-pro, SB, & what not.

Is that BS? Have air raid tackles been successful in the NFL?
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Anyone that had Howard rated higher on their board than Dillard was non-existent. I didn't see one draft expert out there that had Howard rated higher. Dillard was by many accounts 1 of 2 prospects that could come in and start in the NFL from week 1 at Left Tackle. The other guy was Bengals pick jonah williams. So since Dillard was the one who dropped down on draft day, not trading up to get him was stupid and lazy.
Were the Texans the only team that needed a franchise LT that could start day 1? I mean the team that got Dillard doesn't need him to start year 1, much less day 1.

Guards & Centers came off the board before this "can't miss" LT.

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse. Really I'm not. But the narrative just doesn't fit what actually happened.

Regardless what the Texans did I have to believe the NFL has more competent starting LTs than they have spots for, that a can't miss day 1 starting LT would drop to 22.

& maybe that's the case. Oakland spent a boatload to put the best LT in this year's FA on the right side. Donald Penn is still looking for a job, & we spent $7.5M for a swing Tackle.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Born & raised in Houston, fell in love with south Texas and even moreso with the hill country
I grew up hill country, but best friend was sand rat. Too many good times. Fuxker could cast a mile.

Had the best dog. They were buddies. Boxers don't swim, labs love water.

It was 9 degrees and that bastard went in.

Ate his sandwich. Elvis, "wasn't me.' I'm just cracking up.
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
But as far as all objective reasons... I've read air raid OL don't do well in the NFL. If Dillard has a long career at LT he'll be the first. Never mind any accolades, all-pro, SB, & what not.

Is that BS? Have air raid tackles been successful in the NFL?
It's the same BS that was said about Air Raid QBs not being successful in the NFL. Until last year's MVP and the past two #1 overall picks put that to rest.

But, there have been some good to very good OTs of of these college offenses. UH's Sebastian Vollmer was a very solid RT for the Pats until injuries took their toll. Jake Matthews came out of Kevin Sumlin's offense at A&M and become a productive LT for a SB team. And the Eagles took Lane Johnson out of OU, who has been both a an All Pro and a Super Bowl starter at RT.

The main reason we aren't seeing a ton highly drafted OTs out of the pass heavy offenses is that better athletes at the position are signing with these schools. Because there has been a knock against these offenses by NFL scouts and coaches. They aren't playing "pro style" football. Except, the NFL is trending towards the spread offense, now. So we will see more o-lineman out of these offense, because more colleges are running them and more NFL offense are mimicking them. That's why the Eagles didn't hesitate in selecting Dillard. They've had success with Lane Johnson and their OTs take most of their snaps out of a 2 point stance.

I guess the question is, what kind of offense is O'Brien going to run? The wide open offense we saw in Watson's rookie year? Or the 3 yards and a cloud of dust, pound Lamar Miller up the middle offense? The OT play forced that type of offense in 2018. Is that what we're looking at in 2019? Sure seems like it.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Classic blunder.

Might I remind you it's not the size of the dog in the fight...

Something like that. My point, if it was as easy as you say more people would be doing it.
This isn't brain surgery.

Will you miss? Of course you will.

Will you hit more than you miss? Of course you will. IMHO
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Eh, I'll give you Steelers but you were all over the Packers FO for a few years, specifically Ron Wolf and his son. And I didn't mention the Cowboys but you've been all about how they built their Oline compared to the Texans.

You stump for a team hard while they are hot, then move on to the next team that is hot. I get it. Unless the FO does things the way you want them done, your opinion is that they will never build a champion.

I have no issue with your opinion, but rather the fallacy of your straw man argument that since they have never won a Super Bowl, your opinion is validated as fact.
That was Texian that wanted Eliot Wolf.

I wouldn't have had a problem with the McNair's hiring Wolf. He may be more like Dorsey (Whose staff he joined in Cleveland) than Thompson.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Virtually all evaluations? I looked up one (Zierlein on NFL.com) and it said the opposite on Dillard and Howard. I said to myself I would shutup about this. It's moot, Howard is a Texan. I just don't care for apologizing for Gaine and O'Brien's gamble before we see anything on the field. If it works, they're geniuses, Watson is an All Pro, and the Texans are Super Bowl contenders. But there is no objective reason to assume Howard will be a better LT than Dillard. All evidence points to Dillard.
The anchor comments came up during my search for predraft analyses. ProFootballWeekly is one that I would put up as equally respected as Zierlein. And for many reasons I've already posted, I would certainly have to say that all evidence does not point to Dillard. As you said, at this point it is moot, and we will find out in time.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
It's the same BS that was said about Air Raid QBs not being successful in the NFL. Until last year's MVP and the past two #1 overall picks put that to rest.

But, there have been some good to very good OTs of of these college offenses. UH's Sebastian Vollmer was a very solid RT for the Pats until injuries took their toll. Jake Matthews came out of Kevin Sumlin's offense at A&M and become a productive LT for a SB team. And the Eagles took Lane Johnson out of OU, who has been both a an All Pro and a Super Bowl starter at RT.

The main reason we aren't seeing a ton highly drafted OTs out of the pass heavy offenses is that better athletes at the position are signing with these schools. Because there has been a knock against these offenses by NFL scouts and coaches. They aren't playing "pro style" football. Except, the NFL is trending towards the spread offense, now. So we will see more o-lineman out of these offense, because more colleges are running them and more NFL offense are mimicking them. That's why the Eagles didn't hesitate in selecting Dillard. They've had success with Lane Johnson and their OTs take most of their snaps out of a 2 point stance.

I guess the question is, what kind of offense is O'Brien going to run? The wide open offense we saw in Watson's rookie year? Or the 3 yards and a cloud of dust, pound Lamar Miller up the middle offense? The OT play forced that type of offense in 2018. Is that what we're looking at in 2019? Sure seems like it.
The Sooners have never run anything close to the Air Raid offense of Washington State. They have always relied heavily on a strong run game (even more so in recent years).

Passing Percentages of College teams


2018 #1 Wash State 70.32% Andre Dillard's experience


2012 #18 Oklahoma 55.88% Lane Johnson's experience
 
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beerlover

Hall of Fame
It’s late just getting some 2019 Senior Bowl film in because, the first three draft picks of Texans all played and also 5th rd pick Omenihu started #90 as well.

Lonnie Johnson took opening kick-off 25 yards up the middle (also did first punt return) Oh, this is the Tytus Howard thread. Well he started for the South @ RT opposite side Andre Dillard. Scharping started for the North @ LT.

Dillard is horrible blocker. He is a specialist in pass pro only now, something for him and Eagle coaching staff to worry about. Howard was impressive. Plus run blocker and really solid in pass pro, best all around but would say right side his strong side. Scharping moves really well, big frame and active. Prime candidate to kick inside more than Howard, doesn’t have enough bend & slide to pick up edge speed, I see a lot of whiffs in his future, but get him inside with his big body he can hold his ground.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Not many would understand this...
Very likely.

Jake, my 1st boxer, dove out of the boat following his black lab friend. Once. Sank. Ever pull a pissed off boxer into a boat? "Hey dumbass, you don't float." Jake ran that dog's paws raw hunting pheasant. "My balls are frozen, yours?"

That dog could smell watermelon. 'There's trout here.'
 

Dejaview

Rookie
Very likely.

Jake, my 1st boxer, dove out of the boat following his black lab friend. Once. Sank. Ever pull a pissed off boxer into a boat? "Hey dumbass, you don't float." Jake ran that dog's paws raw hunting pheasant. "My balls are frozen, yours?"

That dog could smell watermelon. 'There's trout here.'
You just made it worse.
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
It’s late just getting some 2019 Senior Bowl film in because, the first three draft picks of Texans all played and also 5th rd pick Omenihu started #90 as well.

Lonnie Johnson took opening kick-off 25 yards up the middle (also did first punt return) Oh, this is the Tytus Howard thread. Well he started for the South @ RT opposite side Andre Dillard. Scharping started for the North @ LT.

Dillard is horrible blocker. He is a specialist in pass pro only now, something for him and Eagle coaching staff to worry about. Howard was impressive. Plus run blocker and really solid in pass pro, best all around but would say right side his strong side. Scharping moves really well, big frame and active. Prime candidate to kick inside more than Howard, doesn’t have enough bend & slide to pick up edge speed, I see a lot of whiffs in his future, but get him inside with his big body he can hold his ground.
I really need to see that tape, because I'm not hearing much but good regarding Dillard in the Senior Bowl. Hell, I tried googling "Dillard struggles at senior bowl" and get hits like the links below.

https://247sports.com/college/washington-state/Article/Washington-State-football-WSU-Cougars-Cougs-Gardner-Minshew-Andre-Dillard-NFL-Draft-Reeses-Senior-Bowl-128347631/

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2019/01/senior-bowl-2019-andre-dillard-went-from-hating-football-to-obsessing-about-it.html

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2817787-the-hottest-nfl-draft-prospects-coming-out-of-senior-bowl-week#slide3

https://www.kxly.com/sports/wsu-cougars/solid-senior-bowl-performance-for-wsu-ot-andre-dillard-tough-day-for-gardner-minshew/990987034

This one had both Dillard and Howard as winners from it - https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2817773-2019-senior-bowl-matt-millers-biggest-nfl-draft-winners-and-losers#slide6

Edit - Finally found a critique of Senior Bowl issue - https://www.cover1.net/nfl-draft-scouting-report-andre-dillard-lt-washington-state/
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
It’s late just getting some 2019 Senior Bowl film in because, the first three draft picks of Texans all played and also 5th rd pick Omenihu started #90 as well.

Lonnie Johnson took opening kick-off 25 yards up the middle (also did first punt return) Oh, this is the Tytus Howard thread. Well he started for the South @ RT opposite side Andre Dillard. Scharping started for the North @ LT.

Dillard is horrible blocker. He is a specialist in pass pro only now, something for him and Eagle coaching staff to worry about. Howard was impressive. Plus run blocker and really solid in pass pro, best all around but would say right side his strong side. Scharping moves really well, big frame and active. Prime candidate to kick inside more than Howard, doesn’t have enough bend & slide to pick up edge speed, I see a lot of whiffs in his future, but get him inside with his big body he can hold his ground.
Do you think Dillard can. learn to run block? If so you have your LT of the future. I too see Howard as a RT due to his avg athleticism.

By 2020 I could see an OL of

Draft pick/Rankin/Fulton/Scharping/Howard.

2020 is a great LT class. There are 4-5 LT's that are better than this yrs class. Minus Williams.

It will be such a great thing to have a young talented OL in yr 3 of the rebuild.
 
Do you think Dillard can. learn to run block? If so you have your LT of the future. I too see Howard as a RT due to his avg athleticism.

By 2020 I could see an OL of

Draft pick/Rankin/Fulton/Scharping/Howard.

2020 is a great LT class. There are 4-5 LT's that are better than this yrs class. Minus Williams.

It will be such a great thing to have a young talented OL in yr 3 of the rebuild.
When I went back and watched tape on Tytus Howard at the senior bowl one of the more consistent players there that doesn't get talked about enough was Chuma Edoga out of USC. Only thing Lance knocked him on was his weird frame. Jets drafted him at 92nd overall. I think they got good value on him.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Do you think Dillard can. learn to run block? If so you have your LT of the future. I too see Howard as a RT due to his avg athleticism.

By 2020 I could see an OL of

Draft pick/Rankin/Fulton/Scharping/Howard.

2020 is a great LT class. There are 4-5 LT's that are better than this yrs class. Minus Williams.

It will be such a great thing to have a young talented OL in yr 3 of the rebuild.
Howard is anything but an average athlete. He has size, girth, natural knee bender, excellent lateral movement skills and fluid hips. Looks all very natural to me, like to see Texan weight and conditioning coach develop more explosion, quickness and strength, then you’ll see Texans really got hold of something.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
When I went back and watched tape on Tytus Howard at the senior bowl one of the more consistent players there that doesn't get talked about enough was Chuma Edoga out of USC. Only thing Lance knocked him on was his weird frame. Jets drafted him at 92nd overall. I think they got good value on him.
Edoga is a natural OT prospect and yes your right, underrated.
 

dream_team

All Pro
Eh, I'll give you Steelers but you were all over the Packers FO for a few years, specifically Ron Wolf and his son. And I didn't mention the Cowboys but you've been all about how they built their Oline compared to the Texans.

You stump for a team hard while they are hot, then move on to the next team that is hot. I get it. Unless the FO does things the way you want them done, your opinion is that they will never build a champion.

I have no issue with your opinion, but rather the fallacy of your straw man argument that since they have never won a Super Bowl, your opinion is validated as fact.
This is why I try my best to avoid engaging with SteelB. He lost all credibility with me. He does a great job, though, of saying something so ridiculous that he pulls me back in once in a while. The only reason I haven't put him on my ignore list is that alot of his posts make me laugh.
 

HaveMercy

Passing Through
Howard is anything but an average athlete. He has size, girth, natural knee bender, excellent lateral movement skills and fluid hips. Looks all very natural to me, like to see Texan weight and conditioning coach develop more explosion, quickness and strength, then you’ll see Texans really got hold of something.
More muscle, endurance, flexibility, and explosion will help all of the linemen. I am going to speculate that these things are the goals of the S&C staff.

Let's hope that Howard and Scharping aren't over-trained, as happened with Cush.
 
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beerlover

Hall of Fame
I really need to see that tape, because I'm not hearing much but good regarding Dillard in the Senior Bowl.
Good research. About to loose my game film when switch service providers, AT&T dropped NFL Network, so that was reason why this popped up again, what I discovered was a great watch. Heck Omenihu beat Dillard to QB on one play even, lol. Not sure if it’s on this clip or not? But four picks from this one event by Texans must be some kind of record...
 
More muscle, endurance, flexibility, and explosion will help all of the linemen. I am going to speculate that this things are the goals of the S&C staff.

Let's hope that Howard and Scharping aren't over-trained, as happened with Cush.
Not to sound pessimistic because we have yet to see Howard play but I really do think he could benefit from an entire season/off-season in an NFL program.

When Rankin came in, I also mentioned that he was carrying a lot of bad weight. It sounds like he has come into OTA's with a bigger upper body and a slimmer waist. I think Howard will need the same thing before we see the 1st round investment. (Probably why he is getting initial work at guard)
 
Not to sound pessimistic because we have yet to see Howard play but I really do think he could benefit from an entire season/off-season in an NFL program.

When Rankin came in, I also mentioned that he was carrying a lot of bad weight. It sounds like he has come into OTA's with a bigger upper body and a slimmer waist. I think Howard will need the same thing before we see the 1st round investment. (Probably why he is getting initial work at guard)
My guess is the Texans agree with you and that's why they brought in guys like Kalil on one year deals. They're hoping they can last long enough to get the rookies more to an NFL level. As much as some on here say that a round one should be able to be a day one starter that's just not realistic for most positions. Maybe for something like a WR, then its mostly learn the plays and catch the ball, but something like a OT there are a lot of things that have to change going from a college system to an NFL system.
 

zshawn10

All Pro
STAYING IN THE LANE: The #Texans didn't reach for a OT in Jonah Williams & selected Tytus Howard instead. Why? The latest request Williams made with his new team certainly indicates he wouldn't have been a good fit anyway. What's going on? https://t.co/X7T3qIFMWx

— Brian Patterson (@brkp1999) May 21, 2019


Ian Rapoport ✔ @RapSheet

Some #Bengals news here. Makes sense, as Jonah Williams only wanted to play LT. With both him and Cordy Glenn in the lineup it should greatly improve their OL.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1130537913207394314
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
STAYING IN THE LANE: The #Texans didn't reach for a OT in Jonah Williams & selected Tytus Howard instead. Why? The latest request Williams made with his new team certainly indicates he wouldn't have been a good fit anyway. What's going on? https://t.co/X7T3qIFMWx

— Brian Patterson (@brkp1999) May 21, 2019


Ian Rapoport ✔ @RapSheet

Some #Bengals news here. Makes sense, as Jonah Williams only wanted to play LT. With both him and Cordy Glenn in the lineup it should greatly improve their OL.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1130537913207394314
Jonah was picked #11 and was projected to be a first year starter. First tweet doesn't make much sense.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Howard is anything but an average athlete. He has size, girth, natural knee bender, excellent lateral movement skills and fluid hips. Looks all very natural to me, like to see Texan weight and conditioning coach develop more explosion, quickness and strength, then you’ll see Texans really got hold of something.
Gotta disagree with you here.

His combine screamed avg athlete
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
This is why I try my best to avoid engaging with SteelB. He lost all credibility with me. He does a great job, though, of saying something so ridiculous that he pulls me back in once in a while. The only reason I haven't put him on my ignore list is that alot of his posts make me laugh.

Enjoy mediocrity
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
My guess is the Texans agree with you and that's why they brought in guys like Kalil on one year deals. They're hoping they can last long enough to get the rookies more to an NFL level. As much as some on here say that a round one should be able to be a day one starter that's just not realistic for most positions. Maybe for something like a WR, then its mostly learn the plays and catch the ball, but something like a OT there are a lot of things that have to change going from a college system to an NFL system.
Jonah Williams disagrees with you, so does Cam Robinson, Tyron Smith etc...
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I too see Howard as a RT due to his avg athleticism.

By 2020 I could see an OL of

Draft pick/Rankin/Fulton/Scharping/Howard.

2020 is a great LT class. There are 4-5 LT's that are better than this yrs class. Minus Williams.

That may have been their thinking with Howard. A lock at RT, possible LT. He's still developing into a Tackle. Just three years ago he was small enough to play TE, along with the athleticism required to play TE.

They'll have a year with him to decide if he should make the move to LT, or if they should draft one.
 
Jonah Williams disagrees with you, so does Cam Robinson, Tyron Smith etc...
I'm sorry did you have a point other than naming random OTs? Williams hasn't played one NFL game yet so its a little early to hold him up as an example, Robinson had a decent year but really wasn't anything special and then went out early the next season, I'll grant you Smith had a great rookie year. Just because a guy is made a starter his rookie year doesn't mean its the best choice. Just like if Watson could have got to ride the bench a season behind a vet like Mahomes did he could have been even better.

Saying a rookie will be the starter is different than saying that they should be the starter.
 

Honoring Earl 34

Something Witty !
That may have been their thinking with Howard. A lock at RT, possible LT. He's still developing into a Tackle. Just three years ago he was small enough to play TE, along with the athleticism required to play TE.

They'll have a year with him to decide if he should make the move to LT, or if they should draft one.
Nothing against Alabama State but I doubt they have the weight room and training staff of the Crimson Tide or any big school . After going through a pro off season and getting some shorts that fit , I bet he improves a lot with his agility .
 
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