They posted well after yours and I did... I was just poking fun
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CJ Stroud year 2
- Thread starter Texansballer74
- Start date
Texansballer74
The Marine
Sweech
Onside Kick Specialist
I'm very sure that if roles had been reversed and CJ ended up in Carolina he'd have nowhere near the success he's having here as he would under Reich.
I still maintain that Bryce is a good QB too. Not as good as CJ has been (obviously) but still a good player and prospect. All this revisionist history from teams and media as they all praise CJ and claim they would have taken him is hilarious to now watch.
Sweech
Onside Kick Specialist
Not sure BOB's current time in Patriotsville is really going to change any opinions though.
Overall I do agree though the predator is having the exact same issues in Cleveland that he had here. Slow to read plays, constantly wants to play hero ball, and holds it longer than anyone else. Leading to his o-line constantly getting blamed and under scrutiny which breeds contempt in the locker room.
Sweech
Onside Kick Specialist
Also remember that all QBs have different plays to work with as well.
Carr is rated as good under pressure because he basically throws checkdowns 90% of the time and that's what the offense builds into all the plays. The absolute master of getting 6 yards when you need 8. He's also a guy that throws the ball away on 4th down, but that's another matter....
Reich is known as a QB guru. If he can't get Young into positions to win, who can? Through 6 weeks of the season, it appears that Young benefited far more from the players around him than Stroud did. Stroud is making an unknown group of receivers look great while Young is doing the opposite. Short people got no reason to...except Tank Dell.
By what standard?
Sweech
Onside Kick Specialist
Is he really though?
Like what's his claim to fame? Coaching Peyton Manning and Philip Rivers? Must have been really difficult.
Bill O'Brien coached Brady but that doesn't mean I want him around my rookie QB.
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
Well Bill O’Brien is the perfect analogy because he’s another coach that lives off this ‘QB guru’ moniker that anyone who’s seen him coach finds laughable.
BOB also had Derrick leading the NFL in passing and helped develop Young to the point that he was the #1 pick in the draft despite being a midget.
Sweech
Onside Kick Specialist
Which really goes to show why people struggle to figure out who is good on a coaching staff. Bryce Young has been a football phenom his entire career, BOB has nothing to do with that. I also don't know what "passing" BOB had the predator leading in.
I genuinely struggle to think of a bigger loser that people jump to defend than O'Brien.
Midget love?
QB's dont become the #1 pick in the NFL draft or lead the NFL in passing without good coaching regardless of what we think about BOB. Fitz had played in the NFL for a decade and said he learned more about playing the QB position under BOB than he had at any of his other stops in the NFL. I'l trust his opinion over yours.
Posters need to be able to separate their feelings of BOB the GM from BOB the HC. He was a horrible GM and an avg HC that struggled to develop young talent. He was really good at working with QB's. Look at how Derrick played under BOB vs how he's playing now as an example.
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More or less... eh.
Good QB coach, maybe. I don't think he was a good OC, despite the success he had with Watson. I don't think he ever installed an offensive system here that we could say was "BO'bs" offense. There was no identity, nothing was "right." From my memory, Watson's success as a QB was his ability to make something happen when the plan didn't work... which was practically every play.
But yeah... he didn't make Tom Brady worse, he didn't make Watson worse. he didn't make Bryce Young worse (which is what is happening in Carolina). But he couldn't get Ryan Mallet to good. He couldn't get Tom Savage to good. He couldn't get Osweiler to good. So.... eh.
You need to separate BOB the QB coach from BOB the OC. There is no doubt that BOB is a smart guy and as a QB coach can really teach a QB about defensive coverages. However, as an OC. His game planning, play calling and in game adjustments were below average.
Looking at his resume. He became the Patriots OC when Brady was already a 10-year NFL QB and knew that offense as well or better than his coaches. BOB simply had to not screw up an existing system. The same thing goes for his time with Alabama. He did not implement his system. He ran Saban's offense.
When he had to implement and teach his offense without any supervision. Too many times, the offense was stagnant, unimaginative and Derrick's off script plays masked fundamental issues with the offense. As far as trying to make a case for BOB by comparing Watson's performance with Browns. I think the contract, mental toll of his transgressions, the public scrutiny, the ridicule, diminished skills and the inclement weather has more of an impact on his current play than BOB's influence.
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An inside look at how rookie C.J. Stroud won over the Texans' locker room
Through bonding and fellowship, the No. 2 overall pick got Houston to believe in him before he even took a snap in the NFL.
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Derrick is still playing the same way with the Browns. BOB was able to somewhat reign in the playground bs. What you are talking about is Derrick's style of play. A non winning style of play and BOB did his best to try to get him to play the QB position more like Stroud and had more success getting him to play within the confines of the offense than Stefanski has had. Probably because now that Derrick got paid he ain't listening to no stinkin HC.
Thanks for sharing.
I haven't watched enough of Stefanski to know if he's tried to curtail that style of play. Back in the day it was a given that "hero" ball would be drilled out of a player, not so much nowadays.
Luck, Wentz, guys like that. Could have been great from the pocket, but allowed to do too much off-script. It's hard to build a team around a guy like that. You can draft 1st rounders for every position on the line & you'll still have problems "protecting" him.
Yes, I think Watson understood & let BO'b try to mold him into an NFL QB. I don't think Mr "Fully Guaranteed" contract is in the "letting them mold me" business anymore.
Still... a better QB coach than OC. Agree to disagree. But the next time Bill O'Brien successfully install an offense on an NFL team will be the first time.
You can hear the other guy trying to revise history when he says to Cowherd "We both liked him (Stroud) better than Young."
This is an earlier quote from Cowherd.
"CJ Stroud is just not talented enough to overcome the Houston Texans’ nonsense,” said Cowherd. “But if you told me today, on August 8, Tuesday — Tuesday, August 8, that I had to pick one (rookie first-round QB) that would miss, I would probably pick CJ Stroud from all the things I’ve heard in camp."
-- Colin Cowherd
How wrong could you be. Young is struggling & Richardson is out for the season. It will be fun watching Cowherd flip & flop trying to convince his audience that he loved Stroud the whole time.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Porky
Hall of Fame
Agreed on all counts. Good post SB.
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
I believe that it’s difficult to coach up good OL these days due to limited practices, makes it easier to generate pressure up front lots of the QBs who do well are in systems where they don’t have to process too much post snap because pressure is in their face fast. BOB has the opposite of this philosophy, his route concepts develop over time and the QB has a lot of “if this…then that” to work out based on reads where the WR has to make the same read, too.
CJ looks great because his route tree gives him simple progressions to go through, he can throw his receiver open because they are where they are meant to be and the play is designed in a way that removes all the complexity.
DW4 was, in a way, the perfect QB for OB, because he’s naturally great off-schedule, and the distractions mean he doesn’t have time to be fully at one with the crazy over-complicated playbook anyway, so when the poorly designed play breaks down, Watson actually is at his best. Of course working off-schedule is much more up and down than having a plan that may or may not work and working on it in a consistent manner.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Stroud looks good because of simple progressions going through his route tree but also because he's a very good quarterback.
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
Why does he feel the need to twist history, CJ Stroud looked like he was failing to separate himself from Davis Mills all the way through camp, which is a very shitty level to perform at, the first pre-season game he looked like a deer in headlights, no shame in admitting that it looked a long road from where he was at in early August. So why fib about it now?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Long, but a worthwhile read.
****************************************************************
Quarterbacks of the Future
The inside story on C.J. Stroud, Bryce Young and Anthony Richardson one month into their NFL careers. Life is good in Houston. Meanwhile in Carolina? Life is... complicated.
TYLER DUNNE
OCT 14, 2023
****************************************************************
Quarterbacks of the Future
The inside story on C.J. Stroud, Bryce Young and Anthony Richardson one month into their NFL careers. Life is good in Houston. Meanwhile in Carolina? Life is... complicated.
TYLER DUNNE
OCT 14, 2023
Sweech
Onside Kick Specialist
That's just simply not true though.
Context is heavily needed for that.
1. Mills isn't a bum. He's a more than capable quarterback who can't really elevate the talent around himself, but he's more than capable of playing to the level of talent around himself.
2. Stroud and Mills looked even during the first couple weeks, which is to be expected. One is a rookie with zero experience against NFL level players and the other is as I said earlier a top backup level player going on his 3rd year. That said things started evening out quickly and Stroud overtook Mills for all the first team reps before they ever played a preseason game.
3. Evaluating preseason games. I really feel like people failed to properly evaluate the fact Stroud was noticeably improving each and every game while playing against actual NFL defenses while Mills was playing against 3rd and 4th stringers with Tank Dell cooking them. By game 2 I could already tell CJ was better than Mills.
4. The local media who actually attended practices were all saying Stroud was looking better. All of them. People were trying to justify saying Mills was still close because the "practice stats" (which is a hilarious and ridiculous thing to even take seriously) were close (again ignoring the difference in competition) and typically had Mills getting inflated numbers by Nico Collins cooking someone.
Sweech
Onside Kick Specialist
I still don't understand how BOB somehow gets all the credit for coaching them and not other members of the staff. Again, Bryce was a generational talent coming out of highschool. I'm quite reticent to give his own personal successes to O'Brien (who once again coached and called a meh offense at Alabama) especially when it's not like that school hasn't already developed 1st round quarterbacks before OB ever appeared there.
To your next point, OB the coach...also bad. Not historically all time bad like GM O'Brien but just by every measurable metric bad like head coach O'Brien was or offensive coordinator (when Brady isn't your QB) O'Brien has been at all his stops. He created a toxic culture at this team and nothing will convince me otherwise. He consistently relied on pointing fingers and blaming others for his lack of success. We had to go through a slew of GMs and offensive coordinators before we finally realized the common denominator was O'Brien and Rasputin. Not only that but he was bad at his side of the ball, our offense never amounted to anything even though there was legitimate talent on it. Our defense constantly carried us and GM O'Brien slowly dismantled it in the name of improving the offense (which never improved and only declined under his pervue). His non-Brady ceiling is coaching a below average offense. That's all we've ever seen from him. Now coaching that level of just below average looks impressive when your QBs are Fitzpatrick or Hoyer level but as soon as the talent on the team improves (it did especially on offense at the expense of slow defensive talent erasure) the results didn't.
Not only that but he's a serial loser. A great chunk of his coaching career has been spent with football dynasties like the Patriots or Alabama and what does he have to show for it? Nothing. Zero championships. He's allergic to winning.
If you think he's great because Fitzpatrick said so or because you think he's the reason Bryce Young was highly drafted cool. I think actions and results speak louder than words. Outside of a few isolated incidents he doesn't appear to make others better. While instead every team that employs him consistently does historically worse than they usually do. That's just a fact.
About the only thing you said I strongly disagree with
I didn't know you were talking only about his first couple years. The defense Wade built lost 14 games in 2013. It was better than that, but still gave up too many leads late and that continued through 51-7 and looked even worse in 2020
Sweech
Onside Kick Specialist
I'm not saying it was great, but I thought Crennel had been able to build the part of the team that was actually winning us games. Which certainly wasn't the offense in my opinion. Only for O'Brien to try to allocate all resources towards improving the offense which basically didn't really improve and since it came at the cost of putting any resources into improving or maintaining the defense we basically lost the one part of the team that could win the few games we could.
Which is another reason why I think O'Brien was a bad head coach and a first ballot hall of fame horrible GM. Bad asset management and bad talent evaluation are a recipe for disaster whether you're the GM or the head coach and then doubly so when you're both.
I've said this before but I always enjoy beating dead horses. The main reason I think O'Brien was not a good head coach is his regular season record against winning teams. He played 47 games against above 500 teams with a record of 14-33 with a .298 win percentage. He could beat the bad teams but from the day he got here untill the day he left there was a 70% chance he would lose to a good team.
Watson lead the league in passing yards (not passer rating) in 2020. The year O'Brien was axed after 4 games. Watson was averaging 273 yards/game during the 4 games O'Brien was on the sideline. 311 yards/game post O'Brien.
The point is that he got the best out of that pervert
Sweech
Onside Kick Specialist
He didn't though. Lucky's post is literally illustrating that.
Like you said I'm not going to change your mind.
But Bama didn't have a meh offense under BOB
Look at his record as a HC, it's avg. The QB's he's worked with have performed well, minus Jones and that's got more to do with lack of talent on that roster. Not only Fitzpatrick but Derrick have spoken well about BoB's ability to teach the QB position.Nick Saban doesn't hire the type of coaches you're describing.
Let's just agree to disagree and move on.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Some rabbit holes aren’t worth going down. And Sweech that’s the main one. Get out quickly before you get lost.
Bump Watson and Bill O’Brien, they’re one of the main reasons why this organization sunk to the bottom of the toilet bowl and clogged it up.
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Love me some crawfish during the Saturday of the draft.
Totally agree with this post.
BOB the GM and the Perverts partnership were directly responsible for the downfall of the Texans org. That and the issue of not being able to develop young talent, or find a quality OL coach.
I agree with you. But I wonder how he keeps getting the jobs he keeps getting.
Nepotism is rampant in sports.
By the best HC's in the history of the sport.
I will trust Belichick/Saban's opinions of BOB over Sweech's.
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Wait a minute. Didn't Belichick have Matt Patricia calling offensive plays last year? How did that work out?