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CJ Stroud year 2

sprtsfanatic said:
There we go...finally some kind of source from you and I appreciate the clip.
Sounds like to me it was and still is in a testing phase...and in order to get on the NFL level they had to try and sell it to someone...they wanted 1 team per division...settled on two in the HOPES that their test is valid and in 3yrs (because of contract...whether thats w/ league or teams...still confusing) they hope to widen their horizons...

But thanks for the clip.

Now new question....how do they test college players (are all tested) and what comes of that information if not drafted by a team they currently do business with (until scores get leaked and then you risk it just being a method of trying to get someone to drop and can scores even be trusted at that point)????
I heard the part where they want to test every highschool player "to help w/ development"...but are they testing every college player at every position? Is this purely a QB or position test?
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They setup their marketing in a certain way that was pure genius. IMHO

7 yrs is a long time. They know exactly what they're doing and the test is valid. You say there's not enough data and the question I would ask you is how many yrs/how much data would you need before YOU would deem the S-2 a valid test?

NFL teams apparently disagree with you since they've subscribed to the service. They believe the S-2 is valid. Meanwhile an org like the Texans that are behind the times when it comes to data. They're stuck in the old times and that's why they picked Stroud.

Of course I was always on board with the cutting edge Luhnow style of analytics and performance type of management.
 
steelbtexan said:
They setup their marketing in a certain way that was pure genius. IMHO

7 yrs is a long time. They know exactly what they're doing and the test is valid. You say there's not enough data and the question I would ask you is how many yrs/how much data would you need before YOU would deem the S-2 a valid test?

NFL teams apparently disagree with you since they've subscribed to the service. They believe the S-2 is valid. Meanwhile an org like the Texans that are behind the times when it comes to data. They're stuck in the old times and that's why they picked Stroud.

Of course I was always on board with the cutting edge Luhnow style of analytics and performance type of management.
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Hey TB< How long would it take for YOU to consider the S-2 to be a valid test? 10 yrs/20 yrs/50 yrs?

I'm guessing never, the NFL obviously disagrees with you.
 
Speedy said:
Y'lall still playing the game with this S2 bullshit is really making me question y'alls S2 scores.
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Get back to me when the 1st low scoring S-2 QB becomes a top 5 QB. I'll wait, put that in your spreadsheet. I question your ability to think outside the box, which would make you a candidate for a low S-2 score.
 
steelbtexan said:
Get back to me when the 1st low scoring S-2 QB becomes a top 5 QB. I'll wait, put that in your spreadsheet. I question your ability to think outside the box, which would make you a candidate for a low S-2 score.
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You’ve put Cal, Hannah, Janice, Watson, his agent, etc into a box and complain over and over and over again about them several times a day NEVER changing the dialogue. When are you going to think outside of that box?
 
Dejaview said:
You’ve put Cal, Hannah, Janice, Watson, his agent, etc into a box and complain over and over and over again about them several times a day NEVER changing the dialogue. When are you going to think outside of that box?
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I dont recall mentioning them today.

Truth hurts, there's no box in the truth.

But you already know this, or at least you should know this.
 
steelbtexan said:
They setup their marketing in a certain way that was pure genius. IMHO

7 yrs is a long time. They know exactly what they're doing and the test is valid. You say there's not enough data and the question I would ask you is how many yrs/how much data would you need before YOU would deem the S-2 a valid test?

NFL teams apparently disagree with you since they've subscribed to the service. They believe the S-2 is valid. Meanwhile an org like the Texans that are behind the times when it comes to data. They're stuck in the old times and that's why they picked Stroud.

Of course I was always on board with the cutting edge Luhnow style of analytics and performance type of management.
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Lol, ladies and gentlemen, Steelbtexan.

1694637509821.gif
 
steelbtexan said:
You didn't answer the question, how many yrs of data until you would consider the test valid? 10? 20? 50? Never?

Cute gif though.
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Lol As a data guy, it’s not years sir. It’s the number of participants who take the test…& just given how many QBs on average come out every year, it could take at least a dozen more years or more before you get a sample size that’s significant enough to draw any type of conclusions from. And even THEN you need a control group to compare its results against..i.e. the S2 tests results vs. say traditional scouting results….& then AFTER THAT the difference has to be statistically significant in favor of the S2 for it to have validity.

Just b/c the test has its results & are touting what it touts, doesn’t mean that what they’re saying can hold; there is such a thing as regression to the mean. That’s why you need a larger sample size.

#2 that the results are valid. Validity comes in comparing it to the current gold standard. Over time If the S2 results reflect a 32.3% success rate of predicting and say traditional scouting predicts say 31.7%, sure the test is “better” by the numbers but is it really statistically significantly better? The answer is decidedly NO.
 
Mr teX said:
Lol As a data guy, it’s not years sir. It’s the number of participants who take the test…& just given how many QBs on average come out every year, it could take at least a dozen more years or more before you get a sample size that’s significant enough to draw any type of conclusions from. And even THEN you need a control group to compare its results against..i.e. the S2 tests results vs. say traditional scouting results….& then AFTER THAT the difference has to be statistically significant in favor of the S2 for it to have validity.

Just b/c the test has its results & are touting what it touts, doesn’t mean that what they’re saying can hold; there is such a thing as regression to the mean. That’s why you need a larger sample size.

#2 that the results are valid. Validity comes in comparing it to the current gold standard. Over time If the S2 results reflect a 32.3% success rate of predicting and say traditional scouting predicts say 31.7%, sure the test is “better” by the numbers but is it really statistically significantly better? The answer is decidedly NO.
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So 20 years before there's enough participants that you will consider the test valid?

LMAO
 
steelbtexan said:
So 20 years before there's enough participants that you will consider the test valid?

LMAO
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clearly my post went over your head b/c the 1st sentence clearly states that it’s not years…

2nd of all, this is the basics and standards of how you establish best practices for almost everything. You may not understand it, but trust and believe many of the things you take for granted today were established this way….unless there was an extremely clear way to see that 1 way/thing is better than the other…i.e. like the iPhone smart phone dropping in the early 2000’s vs. the then gold standard phone blackberry…superior in every way from the get go.
 
Dejaview said:
Bump
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In this case I was only talking about how I was taught abot god.

I certainly view my relationship with god much differently than you and probably Stroud does.

It's my opinion Stroud's a phony just like Derrick was when he was getting baptized in the River Jordan. Why do I have this opinion? Because he looks up to Derrick and no Christian would knowingly look up to a Sexual Predator. Although we can always hope the Sexual Predator changes his ways.
 
Mr teX said:
clearly my post went over your head b/c the 1st sentence clearly states that it’s not years…

2nd of all, this is the basics and standards of how you establish best practices for almost everything. You may not understand it, but trust and believe many of the things you take for granted today were established this way….unless there was an extremely clear way to see that 1 way/thing is better than the other…i.e. like the iPhone smart phone dropping in the early 2000’s vs. the then gold standard phone blackberry…superior in every way from the get go.
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Did you not say in your post another dozen years or more? That's how I came up with the 20 yrs. 7 existing yrs plus a dozen more and maybe more.

I agree with the rest of your post. 7 yrs of testing is enough data for informed judgements to be made. IMHO
 
steelbtexan said:
Did you not say in your post another dozen years or more? That's how I came up with the 20 yrs. 7 existing yrs plus a dozen more and maybe more.

I agree with the rest of your post. 7 yrs of testing is enough data for informed judgements to be made. IMHO
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Lol you’re still caught up in years…& I said COULD. Reality is its however long it takes to get a sizable sample to draw REAL conclusions..not whatever confirmation bias you want to draw from it. Otherwise companies would just cut short R&D studies the minute data starts to show what they want it to show….

unscrupulous companies like Purdue Pharma and Phillip Morris do that kinda ****.
 
Mr teX said:
Lol you’re still caught up in years…& I said COULD. Reality is its however long it takes to get a sizable sample to draw REAL conclusions..not whatever confirmation bias you want to draw from it. Otherwise companies would just cut short R&D studies the minute data starts to show what they want it to show….

unscrupulous companies like Purdue Pharma and Phillip Morris do that kinda ****.
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I think enough data is out there now to make it a valid test

Feel free to disagree with me.
 
Sweech said:
How could you possibly come to that conclusion without said data?
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According to the people who devised the test it's been around for 7 yrs. That's more than enough time to gather data and base decisions based off of said data. IMHO
 
thunderkyss said:
Is he ever not complimentary?

Don't get me wrong, I watch all his stuff, love the content, but he approaches every QB as if he were their coach. "This is what he does well, this is what he needs to work on." kind of stuff.
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Yes, go check out CJ’s first start in preseason. He talked about CJ not setting his feet right. Said he was all over the place. Even in this video he talked about CJ missing on those two passes he missed badly. He also said a few times that CJ needs to get rid of the ball versus taking a few of those sacks.
 
Sweech said:

Quite complimentary of CJ

If anything it's way more critical of his teammates and playcalling/play design
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I like his stuff for the most part but I think he at times doesn’t want to be too critical of the young qbs so he downplays errors they make sometimes.

Example of this is the play he’s discussing at the ~24.50 mark. CJ takes a bad sack there in the red zone and according to his commentary he says
“no one was really open”
“#12 wasn’t really looking” but also says “CJ didn’t play it like it was hot”.

well if you look at the play, Nico was open running across his face & he was looking. It took him a hair longer to clear but he was. CJ would’ve had to take a little bit of a hit, but an accurate throw to Nico there and it’s a positive gain if not a TD. And so what I come away with there is CJ wasn’t reading it “hot” b/c he just got fooled. He didn’t read/or think Baltimore had a 0 blitz on for whatever reason & so he didn’t read it hot from the get go. I think if he had, he probably gets rid of the ball & goes straight to Nico across the middle there as that’s also a pretty decent mismatch with your #1 WR on a LB.

young guy, he’ll learn.
 
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Mr teX said:
I like his stuff for the most part but I think he at times doesn’t want to be too critical of the young qbs so he downplays errors they make sometimes.

Example of this is the play he’s discussing at the ~7.38 mark. CJ takes a bad sack there in the red zone and according to his commentary he says
“no one was really open”
“#12 wasn’t really looking” but also says “CJ didn’t play it like it was hot”.

well if you look at the play, Nico was open running across his face & he was looking. It took him a hair longer to clear but he was. CJ would’ve had to take a little bit of a hit, but an accurate throw to Nico there and it’s a positive gain if not a TD. And so what I come away with there is CJ wasn’t reading it “hot” b/c he just got fooled. He didn’t read/or think Baltimore had a 0 blitz on for whatever reason & so he didn’t read it hot from the get go. I think if he had, he probably gets rid of the ball & goes straight to Nico across the middle there as that’s also a pretty decent mismatch with your #1 WR on a LB.

young guy, he’ll learn.
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But he points that out as well though. He said CJ has to recognize it’s hot.

Looking a hair too late is too much whenever a team is in hot formation. Things happen very quickly and the quarterback has to get rid of it fast. He has to make up his mind or go to where the OC wanted him to go. The play probably wasn’t designed to go to Nico. That’s why he wasn’t looking in the first place.
And he was very critical of those two missed opportunities to Nico. That’s where CJ overthrew him on the sidelines.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1702205275531337824


Great Watch. Every #Texans fan should definitely watch the full video, but these are the 3 things that need to be improved upon. #WeAreTexans

Slowik has to figure out how to stop these free rushers. On CJ’s first 6 dropbacks, 5 had free rushers coming after him. A 2 TE set would do the trick IMO. CJ showed he can make out-of-structure plays and can go through his progressions on 3rd downs hitting his 3rd read. CJ made a great throws with anticipation throughout the game, but late in the 2nd quarter with less than a minute left he overthrew 2 deep passes to Nico Collins. Blown opportunity to put up points before the half. That’s on CJ.

Stroud hits a Collins later in the 3rd quarter on a perfect deep curl on a 3rd & 16, but Nico slips leaving the drive a yard short. They get stuffed later on a 4th & 1 play. Another blown opportunity. That’s on Nico.

On a 1st &15 in the RedZone why are there no hot routes drawn up? Ravens are in Cover 0 and the safeties are ready to get after him and CJ gets sacked. Nico doesn’t look back until late. Slowik designed a poor play and CJ didn’t react like the Ravens were in Cover 0. Another blown opportunity. That’s on Slowik, Nico and CJ.

The pass on 3rd & 9th to Nico in the 4th quarter was as perfect as can be. He showed he can throw with anticodon. The 3rd & 4th pass in the 4th quarter to Tank showed he can throw receivers open.

Lots of good stuff. Lots of things to improve on. Watch the full video for yourself.
 
Texansballer74 said:
But he points that out as well though. He said CJ has to recognize it’s hot.

Looking a hair too late is too much whenever a team is in hot formation. Things happen very quickly and the quarterback has to get rid of it fast. He has to make up his mind or go to where the OC wanted him to go. The play probably wasn’t designed to go to Nico. That’s why he wasn’t looking in the first place.
And he was very critical of those two missed opportunities to Nico. That’s where CJ overthrew him on the sidelines.
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you’re right he did address it somewhat.

& I would 100% agree with your take if CJ was under center and it was a 3 step drop. But he wasn’t. He was in shotgun so despite the 0 blitz, the pressure wasn’t on him immediately like it would’ve been if he were closer to the line on a 3-step drop in the same scenario.

1694704835036.png

so he had a split second longer than he normally would’ve to wait for Nico to clear across his face & make a short, well-placed anticipation throw….the worst case scenario there is it’s incomplete b/c there was no other defender around…….BUT he would’ve had to read it right from the get go..& I’m not convinced that he did. He went with his 1st read in a normal situation..which apparently was Woods.

the original play likely wasn’t for him to go to Nico….I agree. But in a hot situation, often times, the passing target closest to you is often the guy you go to..especially in the red zone. That’s part of the reason why TE’s are viewed as a QB’s best friend. The other reason he should’ve gone to Nico is b/c his route took him right to the area where the 0 blitzers came from…& when you’re being blitzed, that’s really qb 101 type stuff. If u have the opportunity to, you throw the ball in the area the blitzers are vacating.

I have faith that Whatever Meco/Slowik want him to do in that situation he will internalize and execute. #youngqbproblems
 
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to all of you genius's out there go to 1:20 on this video. I remember seeing this in concert and thought it was applicable.
 
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Mr teX said:
I like his stuff for the most part but I think he at times doesn’t want to be too critical of the young qbs so he downplays errors they make sometimes.

Example of this is the play he’s discussing at the ~7.38 mark. CJ takes a bad sack there in the red zone and according to his commentary he says
“no one was really open”
“#12 wasn’t really looking” but also says “CJ didn’t play it like it was hot”.

well if you look at the play, Nico was open running across his face & he was looking. It took him a hair longer to clear but he was. CJ would’ve had to take a little bit of a hit, but an accurate throw to Nico there and it’s a positive gain if not a TD. And so what I come away with there is CJ wasn’t reading it “hot” b/c he just got fooled. He didn’t read/or think Baltimore had a 0 blitz on for whatever reason & so he didn’t read it hot from the get go. I think if he had, he probably gets rid of the ball & goes straight to Nico across the middle there as that’s also a pretty decent mismatch with your #1 WR on a LB.

young guy, he’ll learn.
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Thanks for being fair

Agreed he will learn, the question is how fast will he learn?
 
steelbtexan said:
Thanks for being fair

Agreed he will learn, the question is how fast will he learn?
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depends on several factors some of which will resolve themselves as he continues to get live reps. Remember he didn't get a whole lot of passing reps in PS.

Other factors:

- how much he gets the chance to see looks he never saw in college. I'm confident that last week Baltimore showed him more than a few looks he never saw in college. & he'll continue throughout the year to get that.

- how fast he can make the necessary adjustments to his game. Look, its a copycat league & until you make defense pay for doing certain things to you, they're going to continue to do it. So, coming in this week he should expect to see some of the same looks he saw in Baltimore where they made plays on him & the offense.

- How much better Slowik and the offense get from here. - On offense, the game is about adjustments. How much crisper/better will Slowik get with his playcalling? How much better will the o-line protection get? The better these areas get, the more comfortable he can get.

- Time - 16 games is about the barometer.
 
Mr teX said:
- How much better Slowik and the offense get from here. - On offense, the game is about adjustments. How much crisper/better will Slowik get with his playcalling? How much better will the o-line protection get? The better these areas get, the more comfortable he can get.
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When Slowik calls the right play vs the defense's look, the play can work. But the play call is just a guess, based off film. If the play is not there, Stroud has to get out of it and into the correct call. My concern is getting the play to Stroud in time and giving him a chance to get out of it. And right now, Slowik needs to always have a hot on any pass call. As the QB school guy pointed out, there were no hot reads on some of the plays that took sacks. And I've already made my opinion on the numerous naked boots.

The o-line looks worse the more I watch. So many blown assignments. I get guys playing out of position. But Tunsil? He has to play at an All Pro level. The Texans have to get more from him, or this season will be a disaster.
 
Mr teX said:
depends on several factors some of which will resolve themselves as he continues to get live reps. Remember he didn't get a whole lot of passing reps in PS.

Other factors:

- how much he gets the chance to see looks he never saw in college. I'm confident that last week Baltimore showed him more than a few looks he never saw in college. & he'll continue throughout the year to get that.

- how fast he can make the necessary adjustments to his game. Look, its a copycat league & until you make defense pay for doing certain things to you, they're going to continue to do it. So, coming in this week he should expect to see some of the same looks he saw in Baltimore where they made plays on him & the offense.

- How much better Slowik and the offense get from here. - On offense, the game is about adjustments. How much crisper/better will Slowik get with his playcalling? How much better will the o-line protection get? The better these areas get, the more comfortable he can get.

- Time - 16 games is about the barometer.
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True,

About Slowik and the OL, Slowik's hands are kinda tied in his playcalling, because 1. The OL isn't good, but after week 4 the OL should be healthy which should help improve the playcalling. 2. He's dealing with a rookie QB and that limits the playbook. Although Purdy didn't seem to have these issues.
 
Lucky said:
When Slowik calls the right play vs the defense's look, the play can work. But the play call is just a guess, based off film. If the play is not there, Stroud has to get out of it and into the correct call. My concern is getting the play to Stroud in time and giving him a chance to get out of it. And right now, Slowik needs to always have a hot on any pass call. As the QB school guy pointed out, there were no hot reads on some of the plays that took sacks. And I've already made my opinion on the numerous naked boots.

The o-line looks worse the more I watch. So many blown assignments. I get guys playing out of position. But Tunsil? He has to play at an All Pro level. The Texans have to get more from him, or this season will be a disaster.
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Slowik may be expecting to much when he calls plays without a hot read, when he expects Stroud to simply throw the ball away. Stroud will learn this.

I'm not judging the OL until everybody gets back from injury and gets a couple of games under their belt.
 
steelbtexan said:
True,

About Slowik and the OL, Slowik's hands are kinda tied in his playcalling, because 1. The OL isn't good, but after week 4 the OL should be healthy which should help improve the playcalling. 2. He's dealing with a rookie QB and that limits the playbook. Although Purdy didn't seem to have these issues.
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Yeah, not having our Oline issue in SF has really helped Purdy out a lot. Will be nice when we get a stout Oline nice and healthy and have gelled together with some playing time together under their belts
 
Lucky said:
When Slowik calls the right play vs the defense's look, the play can work. But the play call is just a guess, based off film. If the play is not there, Stroud has to get out of it and into the correct call. My concern is getting the play to Stroud in time and giving him a chance to get out of it. And right now, Slowik needs to always have a hot on any pass call. As the QB school guy pointed out, there were no hot reads on some of the plays that took sacks. And I've already made my opinion on the numerous naked boots.

The o-line looks worse the more I watch. So many blown assignments. I get guys playing out of position. But Tunsil? He has to play at an All Pro level. The Texans have to get more from him, or this season will be a disaster.
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I think the matchup against the Ravens was one of the worst possible matchups you could get given our circumstances. Not because of the talent but because how they play. Baltimore’s defense has for a long time absolutely loved simulated pressures and disguised blitzes. Match that up against an oline that hasn’t played together at all, has had to be shuffled around to an extreme degree preseason due to injuries, has a rookie center, and a rookie QB (each in their very first game) and you get Sunday.

Next week against Gus Bradley you won’t see that near as much (unless Bradley strays far away from his roots which is possible) and it’ll likely be much more 4 man standard rushes and it’ll be more about who can block who straight up.

Was frustrating to watch but also a ton of bad luck with the preseason injuries combined with the scheme matchup
 
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