Have you also figured out how a WR dropped a TD. Have you figured out how PFF had Jimmy G as it's 3rd rated QB in week 1? PFF, the bible that some around here swear by when it fits their agenda. All I know is if healthy Jimmy G is a winner.
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
CJ Stroud year 2
- Thread starter Texansballer74
- Start date
That just validated my belief. You got the red ass because the team is not doing what you wanted them to do. And that colors every single one of your posts.
badboy
Hall of Fame
When the MB gets slow.. in the middle of the quiet.. one can always sneak in:
1. S2
2. Clemson
3. Deshaun Watson
4. Mulugheta
5. Cal McNair
6. Profit vs productivity
7. Jack Easterby
8. Nick Caserio
9. Hanna
10. Any mention of 'an anus by any other name is still an anus'.
And then..
The storm begins!
1. S2
2. Clemson
3. Deshaun Watson
4. Mulugheta
5. Cal McNair
6. Profit vs productivity
7. Jack Easterby
8. Nick Caserio
9. Hanna
10. Any mention of 'an anus by any other name is still an anus'.
And then..
The storm begins!
All I know is according to PFF in 2019 all 32 NFL teams subscribed to PFF. So if approx 16 NFL using the S2 test makes it legitimate then PFF must be twice as good.
Personally I don't put a lot of stock in either one but I do believe in using any tool available to make as informed a decision as a team can.
sprtsfanatic
Veteran
See this is whats wrong with your argument: By your own premise...you say "teams must believe there's something to the test or they wouldn't buy the test. This is a fact"....well by same token there are MANY TEAMS THAT DONT USE IT AND DECIDE THAT IT IS NOT A GOOD TOOL FOR TALENT EVALUATION....so by your own premise IT WOULD BE FACT that it is NOT A VALID TEST OR MEASURING STICK.
How can I make you understand that they only sell the S-2 to a few select teams and dont offer to sell the test to ALL TEAMS.
sprtsfanatic
Veteran
That goes AGAINST every business model ever made. But I'll make it simple for you...Show me where they only sell to select teams. Provide the list of teams they sell to, and the list of teams they are according to you "black balling" of this golden ticket information...I dont want heresay, or some bullshite post about so and so said this....i want a legitimate source from a legitimate news source or company....you provide that and I'll say ok...they are a dumb ass company....and if they are that selective...Im wondering if they only sell to teams in the top X picks...but I'll cross that bridge when you provide that information.
Except they limit the number of subscribers. They've got some cockamine "logic" to restrict the number of subscribers in a given market.
I know you know this has to be BS. It's actually laughable. All you need to know is human nature. There is no way in hell a bunch of billionaire owners would put up with some of them getting a theoretical advantage over others.
Banning the S2 totally would have been the first item on the agenda in the last owners meeting. Sometimes you don't need to see sources. Just use a little common sense.
I'm just giving you the facts as they currently are.
To date, those who have scored poorly have not been successful on the field.
The next one who scores poorly and plays well will be the first.
Don't take that as me saying this test is the holy grail, its not. Its saying so far ....
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
www.youtube.com
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
In the video @Mollywhopper provides, at the timestamp of 32:00 is an interview with one of the developers of the S2 and he states clearly that their business model is exclusivity - its only available to 2 teams per division - these teams feel like they have a little bit of an advantage - exact words.
Read the Atlantic article that was posted up thread. I think it's actually a genius way to market . It's like a golf course that has too many rounds played on it. You raise the price of the membership so less people play and this helps rejuvenate the course, while you are still making the same amount of money with less rounds of golf being played.
Last edited:
He won't listen.
SeriousShizzle
Rookie
Least he was smarter than rogers.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Texansballer74
The Marine
Can you list all the players that scored poorly and wasn’t successful? And why wasn’t the test talked about last year?
Texansballer74
The Marine
Like I said a book nerd who never played football.
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
I'll agree with the cockamine part - sounds like one of two things to me (which I believe we can all agree we have seen companies do?)
1. They were turned down by teams so the marketing team made up the story of exclusivity to explain why not all teams are signing up (how many companies do you know would walk away from money? "Hey we heard you guys are selling this info to the Colts, we The Texans would also like this excellent insider information, how much do you want?"... "No thank you, good sir, we are an altruistic company only concerned with giving our product to like-minded individuals, you keep your money!" - sounds a bit daft.
2. We are only releasing the test to select markets because it is a Beta test - they don't know what this data means yet, and before they can fully penetrate the market they need more samples to see if the test can be an indicator of success or failure.
But hey if you guys want to believe they are leaving money on the table for 'reasons' go for it.
EDIT: Just watched the video Mollywhopper posted - and it gave a third option, they signed a bad contract and the only way they got NFL teams to sign up was to give them exclusive rights to the data, and they can't sign up other teams until the current agreement runs out.
Having worked for major corporations for the last mumble30mumble years I'm just too cynical to believe they have decided, intentionally, to only give access to a number of teams and walk away from the others. Just doesn't ring true to me.
Last edited:
I keep reading that QBs who scored low on the test are unsuccessful. I have yet to see the list of these low scoring, unsuccessful QBs.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Why not ? Everything else is made public, there salaries and everything. The dude even mentioned LSU and New Orleans Saints. Isn’t he making it public by push his business and doing interviews on podcasts? So again do y’all have information or not? Name all of the quarterbacks who did poorly and it showed the evidence on the darn football field! Or it’s BS to me.
Texansballer74
The Marine
That’s because they don’t have a freaking leg to stand on. Lol
I can't remember where I saw this, maybe in a The Athletic article. But these S2 guys can't release the data purchased by the NFL due to non-disclosure agreements. But they can release the info if it was purchased individually, and that person OKs the release. Like Bryce Young did.
Which means the public (those in this forum included) can't really make conclusions on these tests. We don't have the data (just an incomplete and unauthorized set of results). But that won't stop many here to think they have all of the answers.
Why did you leave us out?
Signed,
Jadeveon Clowney, Bill O'Brien, Sauce Gardner/Derek Stingley
You left out David Carr and Rick Smith.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
but see even that doesn’t make sense b/c if Bryce Young’s team ”purchased” the data, he should’ve onLy been able to purchase HIS data. That list had the purported data from multiple prospects on it.
Now if a TEAM like say the Panthers who apparently have access to this “exclusive” test wanted the data on all of these prospects, then to what end does it serve them to leak this info to the public? A, they had the #1 pick so there was no danger in anyone jumping them to get a prospect they coveted & B, why were they chosen as a team who got exclusive rights to the test?
At the end of the day, none of it makes sense from a business model standpoint regardless of what the S2 guys say.
Considering that the test can only be administered during the draft eval process, I do see how maybe the NFL could be restricting the release of test results tho… no one really knows or understands how this test comes up with its score despite the creators of the tests campaign to try to explain it without really revealing “proprietary info” I guess you could call it. Regardless, & like any test or eval, it has the potential to be biased towards certain groups of prospects. And in releasing the results publicly it also has the potential to alter a prospects future earnings if the results come out & said prospect has scored poorly on it for whatever reason; the wonderlic effect.
As CJ said in regards to his purported score “I’m not a test taker, I’m a football player & teams know what I can do”…
Other players have purchased their tests and have released their own data. Bryce Young has been taking the test since high school. Clearly though, there has been some leaking going on. Even S2 guy said that some of the results leaked were false and could not be trusted.
Number19
Hall of Fame
So it's BS to you. That's your prerogative. There's a clear difference in opinion. The world won't end.
Number19
Hall of Fame
This is my understanding as well. Good explanation. The question I have is whether this test is mandatory by the NFL.
Texansballer74
The Marine
And there it goes, gotta get super fly. Of course the world is not going to end. It’s BS because none of you can produce the true data on the players who supposedly tested poorly. Why because they’re not giving it to anyone, therefore, you have to trust their word on it. The word of a nerd who probably never played football a day in his freaking life. So yes it BS to me. Moving right along.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Apparently not because every team isn’t using it.
Could be that none of those low scoring QB's were good enough players to have a shot anyway
He also mentioned that one guy was coming in after a long flight and was tired and hungry and didn't want to take it. So it seems there is no standardization to the test.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Duh....I suppose the players voluntarily take the test because they feel its in their best interest to do so. Much like the combine. Players don't have to participate, but most do because it's in their interest to do so.
Tie and a win but we truly sucked last year. And if they trade taylor we will probably suck again.
It's kind of funny. Stroud played his first game on the road against a really tough defense. As expected, Stroud and the entire offense struggled but he didn't seem overly confused, didn't throw any INTs and yet somehow, the most active discussion this week is the S2 score.
Considering @steelbtexan didn't even watch the game and cannot even critique Stroud's performance, I have to give him credit for still being able to drive his S2 narrative. I can't imagine what this thread will be when he actually watches a game and Stroud commits the expected rookie INT.
Considering @steelbtexan didn't even watch the game and cannot even critique Stroud's performance, I have to give him credit for still being able to drive his S2 narrative. I can't imagine what this thread will be when he actually watches a game and Stroud commits the expected rookie INT.
Texansballer74
The Marine
It would be the end of the world for the Texans and him. Lol I told you so.
And TK would do his usual, you see it just proves the pressure narrative was right. Lol
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
At the end of the day, I think what this test is is the NFL (owners) trying to find a replacement for the wonderlic and are perhaps maybe vetting this test to see if it has any merit. It’s all about them trying to save money on scouting and draft busts.
At the same time I believe the guys who created the test have been tweaking it every year to try to make it better so as to be able to get it ready to make available for all other teams.
At the end of the day I think it’s a fruitless effort by both b/c it still can’t measure a guy’s heart, will and determination. No test can do that
At the same time I believe the guys who created the test have been tweaking it every year to try to make it better so as to be able to get it ready to make available for all other teams.
At the end of the day I think it’s a fruitless effort by both b/c it still can’t measure a guy’s heart, will and determination. No test can do that
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Or maybe they leaked the list trying to get Stroud to fall to them.
Last edited:
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
I just don't see how anyone is giving the leaked results any validity at this point - I'm inline with Mr tex and the theory that a particular camp leaked the results to shift the midget talk to mental midget talk (Bryce's camp).
In only 5 minutes of talking with my bestie (Google), there is so much conflicting info on the results, included from the S2 co-founder that it's hard to take anything they say with anything more than a grain of salt.
Ryan Days opinion - Link
“I learned quite a few things about it,” Day said on ESPN from Kansas City, the site of the draft. “First off, it's all based on your eye reaction and reaction to buttons and pressing buttons. So there's no IQ test. There's no question and answer. There's nothing like that.”
Day said he also learned that some of the test scores attributed to Stroud were inaccurate.“There’s 10 scores that actually get evaluated during the testing process,” he said, “and you don't know what those scores mean. They're all evaluating different things. To just kind of take a number that got leaked and make an evaluation of somebody is a little irresponsible.”
Day said he learned that only 15 of 32 NFL teams subscribe to S2’s services. Day said he suspected Stroud’s test scores were leaked as part of the cutthroat gamesmanship that can happen as the draft approaches.
Co-founder from S2 - Link
In an appearance Monday on "The Pat McAfee Show," S2 co-founder and director of football Brandon Ally pushed back on the leaked scores and said that he was not able to address specific cases or scores for privacy reasons.
"What I will say is that the list of scores that I have seen, two of those scores are not accurate," Ally said during the appearance. "They're not accurate at all."
Ally added, again declining to speak with specificity, that some of the leaked scores may lack context and may be an early score. For example, he cited a case in which S2 Cognition was asked to administer a test during an all-star game. Ally said the player had a difficult time arriving because of travel delays and the player was in high demand and hungry and tired. The player was frustrated and it was 11 p.m. by the time the test occurred.
"We knew at that point in time, 'Hey we'll (test) you again,' " Ally said. " 'We'll test you at your pro day, your 30 visit.' We did that and his score is significantly higher than what is being reported."
Co-founder from S2 again - Link
S2 Cognition co-founder Brandon Ally appeared on a Pro Football Focus podcast to address the test results being leaked and indicated what had been reported simply isn't accurate:
Co-founder from S2 again, and again - Link
"The day that those leaks happened, my phone was blowing up from general managers and our attorney. We can't speak on specifics. What I will say is the list of scores that I have seen, two of those scores are not accurate. They're not accurate at all. Some of the reason could be for narrative purposes. The other reason is that they don't have context, so somebody could have gotten a list of very early scores. One of the particular athletes on that list I know had a difficult time making his way to the all-star game, things were delayed. He was in high demand. He was hungry, tired, it was 11 p.m., didn't want to do it. He was frustrated. We administered the test because we're asked to. We knew at that point in time, hey, we're going to get you again. We'll get you at your Pro Day, your 30 visit. We did that and his score is significantly higher than what it was being reported in the media. I'm not saying that it was C.J. Stroud. But for context purposes, the scores that were leaked, there are a couple of them that are inaccurate and there needs to be context behind that."
Could this be a tactic by a particular team to scare others off the Ohio State quarterback? Possibly. It could also just be a misinterpretation of information. Either way, it's a shame that the scores were leaked.
Can we move on from S2 now, and go back to our tried and true PFF stats, and member 'eye tests'?
In only 5 minutes of talking with my bestie (Google), there is so much conflicting info on the results, included from the S2 co-founder that it's hard to take anything they say with anything more than a grain of salt.
Ryan Days opinion - Link
“I learned quite a few things about it,” Day said on ESPN from Kansas City, the site of the draft. “First off, it's all based on your eye reaction and reaction to buttons and pressing buttons. So there's no IQ test. There's no question and answer. There's nothing like that.”
Day said he also learned that some of the test scores attributed to Stroud were inaccurate.“There’s 10 scores that actually get evaluated during the testing process,” he said, “and you don't know what those scores mean. They're all evaluating different things. To just kind of take a number that got leaked and make an evaluation of somebody is a little irresponsible.”
Day said he learned that only 15 of 32 NFL teams subscribe to S2’s services. Day said he suspected Stroud’s test scores were leaked as part of the cutthroat gamesmanship that can happen as the draft approaches.
Co-founder from S2 - Link
In an appearance Monday on "The Pat McAfee Show," S2 co-founder and director of football Brandon Ally pushed back on the leaked scores and said that he was not able to address specific cases or scores for privacy reasons.
"What I will say is that the list of scores that I have seen, two of those scores are not accurate," Ally said during the appearance. "They're not accurate at all."
Ally added, again declining to speak with specificity, that some of the leaked scores may lack context and may be an early score. For example, he cited a case in which S2 Cognition was asked to administer a test during an all-star game. Ally said the player had a difficult time arriving because of travel delays and the player was in high demand and hungry and tired. The player was frustrated and it was 11 p.m. by the time the test occurred.
"We knew at that point in time, 'Hey we'll (test) you again,' " Ally said. " 'We'll test you at your pro day, your 30 visit.' We did that and his score is significantly higher than what is being reported."
Co-founder from S2 again - Link
S2 Cognition co-founder Brandon Ally appeared on a Pro Football Focus podcast to address the test results being leaked and indicated what had been reported simply isn't accurate:
So both Stroud and the guy behind S2 Cognition are telling you to disregard Stroud's reported S2 Cognition test results.
Co-founder from S2 again, and again - Link
"The day that those leaks happened, my phone was blowing up from general managers and our attorney. We can't speak on specifics. What I will say is the list of scores that I have seen, two of those scores are not accurate. They're not accurate at all. Some of the reason could be for narrative purposes. The other reason is that they don't have context, so somebody could have gotten a list of very early scores. One of the particular athletes on that list I know had a difficult time making his way to the all-star game, things were delayed. He was in high demand. He was hungry, tired, it was 11 p.m., didn't want to do it. He was frustrated. We administered the test because we're asked to. We knew at that point in time, hey, we're going to get you again. We'll get you at your Pro Day, your 30 visit. We did that and his score is significantly higher than what it was being reported in the media. I'm not saying that it was C.J. Stroud. But for context purposes, the scores that were leaked, there are a couple of them that are inaccurate and there needs to be context behind that."
Could this be a tactic by a particular team to scare others off the Ohio State quarterback? Possibly. It could also just be a misinterpretation of information. Either way, it's a shame that the scores were leaked.
Can we move on from S2 now, and go back to our tried and true PFF stats, and member 'eye tests'?
I meant Titans didn’t care about his low score, neither did the Texans. lol
Dejaview
Wahoo Sabi
And pervert sexual predator midget Nigerian doctors
Texansballer74
The Marine
Now we all know this is a conflict to what they believe and this will be ignored. Why? Easy, it doesn’t fit their specific agenda. So they will continue to throw this around every chance they get. It’s so bad that a certain person doesn’t even have to actual watch the games.I just don't see how anyone is giving the leaked results any validity at this point - I'm inline with Mr tex and the theory that a particular camp leaked the results to shift the midget talk to mental midget talk (Bryce's camp).
In only 5 minutes of talking with my bestie (Google), there is so much conflicting info on the results, included from the S2 co-founder that it's hard to take anything they say with anything more than a grain of salt.
Ryan Days opinion - Link
“I learned quite a few things about it,” Day said on ESPN from Kansas City, the site of the draft. “First off, it's all based on your eye reaction and reaction to buttons and pressing buttons. So there's no IQ test. There's no question and answer. There's nothing like that.”
Day said he also learned that some of the test scores attributed to Stroud were inaccurate.“There’s 10 scores that actually get evaluated during the testing process,” he said, “and you don't know what those scores mean. They're all evaluating different things. To just kind of take a number that got leaked and make an evaluation of somebody is a little irresponsible.”
Day said he learned that only 15 of 32 NFL teams subscribe to S2’s services. Day said he suspected Stroud’s test scores were leaked as part of the cutthroat gamesmanship that can happen as the draft approaches.
Co-founder from S2 - Link
In an appearance Monday on "The Pat McAfee Show," S2 co-founder and director of football Brandon Ally pushed back on the leaked scores and said that he was not able to address specific cases or scores for privacy reasons.
"What I will say is that the list of scores that I have seen, two of those scores are not accurate," Ally said during the appearance. "They're not accurate at all."
Ally added, again declining to speak with specificity, that some of the leaked scores may lack context and may be an early score. For example, he cited a case in which S2 Cognition was asked to administer a test during an all-star game. Ally said the player had a difficult time arriving because of travel delays and the player was in high demand and hungry and tired. The player was frustrated and it was 11 p.m. by the time the test occurred.
"We knew at that point in time, 'Hey we'll (test) you again,' " Ally said. " 'We'll test you at your pro day, your 30 visit.' We did that and his score is significantly higher than what is being reported."
Co-founder from S2 again - Link
S2 Cognition co-founder Brandon Ally appeared on a Pro Football Focus podcast to address the test results being leaked and indicated what had been reported simply isn't accurate:
So both Stroud and the guy behind S2 Cognition are telling you to disregard Stroud's reported S2 Cognition test results.
Co-founder from S2 again, and again - Link
"The day that those leaks happened, my phone was blowing up from general managers and our attorney. We can't speak on specifics. What I will say is the list of scores that I have seen, two of those scores are not accurate. They're not accurate at all. Some of the reason could be for narrative purposes. The other reason is that they don't have context, so somebody could have gotten a list of very early scores. One of the particular athletes on that list I know had a difficult time making his way to the all-star game, things were delayed. He was in high demand. He was hungry, tired, it was 11 p.m., didn't want to do it. He was frustrated. We administered the test because we're asked to. We knew at that point in time, hey, we're going to get you again. We'll get you at your Pro Day, your 30 visit. We did that and his score is significantly higher than what it was being reported in the media. I'm not saying that it was C.J. Stroud. But for context purposes, the scores that were leaked, there are a couple of them that are inaccurate and there needs to be context behind that."
Could this be a tactic by a particular team to scare others off the Ohio State quarterback? Possibly. It could also just be a misinterpretation of information. Either way, it's a shame that the scores were leaked.
Can we move on from S2 now, and go back to our tried and true PFF stats, and member 'eye tests'?
Last edited:
sprtsfanatic
Veteran
There we go...finally some kind of source from you and I appreciate the clip.
Sounds like to me it was and still is in a testing phase...and in order to get on the NFL level they had to try and sell it to someone...they wanted 1 team per division...settled on two in the HOPES that their test is valid and in 3yrs (because of contract...whether thats w/ league or teams...still confusing) they hope to widen their horizons...
But thanks for the clip.
Now new question....how do they test college players (are all tested) and what comes of that information if not drafted by a team they currently do business with (until scores get leaked and then you risk it just being a method of trying to get someone to drop and can scores even be trusted at that point)????
I heard the part where they want to test every highschool player "to help w/ development"...but are they testing every college player at every position? Is this purely a QB or position test?
Last edited: