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2023 TEXANS DRAFT DISCUSSION

Double Barrel said:
I wish I had your optimism! ;)

Seriously, tho', I completely get the hype around Young. I wish we had a franchise that I believed could develop him. But this franchise will David Carr the kid. I know it in my soul.

Here's the rub from a recent scouting report:

The only major negative we can find to Young is his susceptibility to injury, and while playing behind an elite (for the most part) Tide offensive line he's been able to stay on the field - behind a subpar basement-dwelling pro line things could turn bad, quickly. This is a potentially serious issue - any team that drafts him will need to have the team to keep him upright.

The bolded is exactly my concerns. This franchise is not the one to act like they will surround him with what he needs to succeed.

I'll root for the kid if he's their pick. Once he's a Texan, then it's all aboard. So these are just thoughts pre-draft. My confidence in the Texans is at an all time low, so I'll be the first to admit that my perspectives are biased and extremely pessimistic.
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This is a concern for every single player and most definitely every quarterback. Watson sustained an injury to his lungs after getting blasted by one of the Cowboys LB’s.
 
JB said:
You left out the rest of their comment
Despite this we still consider Bryce Young to be the best player in the class and easily worthy of the top pick in the 2023 NFL Draft.
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Also...I think they are on somewhat shaky ground in their evaluation. It's not like Young has a huge injury list in college. I'm too busy to look it up - a lot of guys get banged up, but injury prone? Don't think so.

The other comment they made that I question is the quality of his line and his offensive teammates generally. The line this year wasn't great, and the skill guys weren't either. He elevated his teammates. I think that's the guy you want - someone that takes the team on his back and lifts it to new heights.

I'm not sure what history DB is referring to but we had that with Watson pre-2020. I'll take the 2022 O-line into 2023 with zero changes and call it better than any line Watson played behind. I'll take Pierce and a rookie RB to pair over any RB duo Watson had. The WR/TE - argument can be made either way depending on the year.

Yes, it turned to ****. But to say history says we cannot draft a QB worth a damn in rd 1 is not accurate. David Carr's biggest problem is he loved his family more than football. NFL QB is like your wife. You have to be head over heels for that chick! If you aren't - you're sacked. Not denying his lines were shaky, but David also played a big role in his failure. IMHO, it wasn't 100% all on the Texans. Man up!
 
I don't see any QB in 2023 that comes with the franchise QB label. Nothing to suggest that any of them is deserving of the #2 pick.

IMO with Kafka as HC, Texans would be better off trying to sign Jimmy Garoppolo to a 4 year $120MM contract and hope they are in a position to draft Williams or Maye in 2024. And with the 2nd pick the Houston Texans select DL Jalen Carter from UGA.
 
Porky said:
Also...I think they are on somewhat shaky ground in their evaluation. It's not like Young has a huge injury list in college. I'm too busy to look it up - a lot of guys get banged up, but injury prone? Don't think so.

The other comment they made that I question is the quality of his line and his offensive teammates generally. The line this year wasn't great, and the skill guys weren't either. He elevated his teammates. I think that's the guy you want - someone that takes the team on his back and lifts it to new heights.

I'm not sure what history DB is referring to but we had that with Watson pre-2020. I'll take the 2022 O-line into 2023 with zero changes and call it better than any line Watson played behind. I'll take Pierce and a rookie RB to pair over any RB duo Watson had. The WR/TE - argument can be made either way depending on the year.

Yes, it turned to ****. But to say history says we cannot draft a QB worth a damn in rd 1 is not accurate. David Carr's biggest problem is he loved his family more than football. NFL QB is like your wife. You have to be head over heels for that chick! If you aren't - you're sacked. Not denying his lines were shaky, but David also played a big role in his failure. IMHO, it wasn't 100% all on the Texans. Man up!
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Good point about Carr. People forget he wasn't all in on football.
 
cuppacoffee said:
That guy just got fired. not for picking Stingley but playing him out of position, among various other reasons.

I liked the Stingley pick, guess you didn't?
I'm sure the new coach will play him to his strengths. Maybe that will temper all the Sauce rants.

:coffee:
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I like Stingley. I just don't like the red flag he had when drafted and still has.
His injury is likely to shorten his career.
And that's my point.
Some teams can take those types of risks.
The Texans are not a team that can afford that luxury in my opinion.
 
Lucky said:
I see it the same way, but with a different result. Who's the best player, just looking at everyone's play? It's Bryce Young. And it's not close. Trying to come up with reasons not to pick Young is trying to be the smartest guy in the room.
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My comparison of Young and Stingley was based on both of them having obvious physical red flags.
Not red flags for intangibles, or for their ability to compete mentally at the next level.
They both have obvious known red flags for a physical attributes.
Your opinion of the severity and mine clearly aren't in agreement.

Let me ask you this.
Do you personally believe that Young's size has zero potential to hinder his career in the NFL? I mean literally zero?

Because if you think there's even a 10% chance his size could be an issue at the next level, fundamentally we're in agreement, now we're just talking about our opinions on the probability.

I don't know any metric that can be used to assess the odds of his size being a detriment.
Maybe you assess the odds as low, and that's cool, I'd just like to know how you get to that number.
Because to me, in the absence of any way to quantify it, I have to say it's just a coin toss.
A 50/50 proposition.

And like I said, some teams can get away with that coin flip, but the Texans aren't one of them.
 
Texian said:
I don't see any QB in 2023 that comes with the franchise QB label. Nothing to suggest that any of them is deserving of the #2 pick.

IMO with Kafka as HC, Texans would be better off trying to sign Jimmy Garoppolo to a 4 year $120MM contract and hope they are in a position to draft Williams or Maye in 2024. And with the 2nd pick the Houston Texans select DL Jalen Carter from UGA.
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Exactly

Either Carter or Anderson.

Even though I want this to be an offense heavy draft, if you told me I could draft Carter and Wilson (Give me Carter) at 1-2 and Wilson at 1-12 sign me up for that all day everyday.

Then draft a guy like

2-32 Rice
2-37 Achane
3-64 Van Ness
3-75 Aila
4-103 Musgrave

You think these 4 players aren't difference makers that a when added to signing a center like Bradbury and a QB like Jimmy G wouldn't really improve this team? And trading down for a 2023 2nd and a 2024 1st in addition to these 4 guys? Sign me up.
 
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Lucky said:
How often does a guy the size of Bryce Young even get an opportunity like he did at Alabama? Don't you think they were asking themselves the same questions when recruiting Young? They could have passed and went with a more prototypical QB. But they looked at the tape and had to give him a chance. And he took that chance and ran with it.

Back in the late '90s, Michigan had a couple of QBs. One was a guy who looked like a comic book superhero in Drew Henson. Mr. Perfect. His muscles had muscles. The other guy was gangly, non-athletic kid who looked like a reject from the intramural basketball team. His name was Tom Brady. He couldn't break 5 seconds on his 40 yard dash. But he kept outplaying Mr. Perfect on the field. The coach couldn't believe what he saw. So he'd put Mr. Perfect on the field, anyway. Then he had to put Brady back out there to save the game when Mr. Perfect failed.

We know the ending. But no one would have written that ending back then. Because it didn't look right. Brady wasn't supposed to be able to do what he was doing. Mr. Perfect should be doing that. Just like the Mr. Perfects before him did. Elway, Kelly, Marino. No one looked at Joe Montana and said, "Oh yeah, this guy is a future HOFer." Unless you happened to actually see him play.

Everyone knows that Bryce Young is an outlier. But he is an outlier. He is great at playing QB. History may show that you don't see a guy that looks like him being great often. But Bryce Young shows you that he can play great. Sometimes you have to believe what you see, rather than what you've been told.
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I'd target him around 15... but I'd take him at 12 if I don't get any good offers
 
Double Barrel said:
The only major negative we can find to Young is his susceptibility to injury, and while playing behind an elite (for the most part) Tide offensive line he's been able to stay on the field - behind a subpar basement-dwelling pro line things could turn bad, quickly. This is a potentially serious issue - any team that drafts him will need to have the team to keep him upright.
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Injury is a thing. But there's also the thing about getting hit. I admire David Carr inasmuch as I think he's one of the toughest dudes to ever play the game. Two & a half years, imo, before he checked out.

I'd be surprised if someone Young's size will be able to take "leading the league" in QB hits for very long. I mean it's possible he won't get hit often behind our OL, hadn't worked out for anyone else in Houston but why not? & it's possible he won't lose his grit.

I just don't think it's worth the gamble.

But this is the way I look at it. Would I be upset if Indy drafts Young? Eh... maybe. But not as mad as I'd be if they drafted Stroud. So if I had my rathers...
 
cuppacoffee said:
If we can gain another first round pick + I'd trade #2.

We're a lot further away than a QB. But I know I have more faith in Mills than some here.

E E DT Ctr LB's WR will help this team more. And they will be available to us. In Caserio I trust.

I think there are some good G & T in the mid rounds. New coaching should improve those now on the roster.

Maybe not justified, but I feel more encouraged than I have in recent memory.idonno:

Get Duggan late. He can do what Driskel has been doing, and do it better.

:coffee:
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i can roll with everything you say here, except the Duggan part.
 
steelbtexan said:
Exactly

Either Carter or Anderson.

Even though I want this to be an offense heavy draft, if you told me I could draft Carter and Wilson (Give me Carter) at 1-2 and Wilson at 1-12 sign me up for that all day everyday.

Then draft a guy like

2-32 Rice
2-37 Achane
3-64 Van Ness
3-75 Aila
4-103 Musgrave

You think these 4 players aren't difference makers that a when added to signing a center like Bradbury and a QB like Jimmy G wouldn't really improve this team? And trading down for a 2023 2nd and a 2024 1st in addition to these 4 guys? Sign me up.
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Improving the team? Sure. Winning in the playoffs? No. Jimmy G has proven he can't stay healthy and you cannot win long term with him. A defensive player is not going to make you a superbowl contender, The right QB will. Out of the last 20 Superbowl winners, only ONE had a less than elite QB (Nick Foles...who had an elite playoff run). You have to go back to 2003 the last time an non-Elite QB won a Superbowl (Tampa Bay - Brad Johnson). Joe Flacco was playing at an Elite Level when the Ravens won in 2013. Otherwise, you can win with a GREAT Defense...and a game manager QB.
 
Mr teX said:
i can roll with everything you say here, except the Duggan part.
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Not suggesting he would be the starter.

I am all for trotting Mills out there next year with some sort of professional game plan and a coach who knows how to implement it.
Duggan can spell him if the need arises. I do not want to spend a high pick on a QB this year. Duggan is as good a player as any QB we could pick in the 5th/6th which is where I expect Duggan to fall. He'd be better prepared to backup next years high pick QB.

Maybe we pick up a better option in FA this year. idonno:

I suppose Caserio probably knows more about those things than this grumpy old coon-ass.
I won't get all upset, go grade school, and call him names if it doesn't happen.

:coffee:
 
Number19 said:
If Indy trades up for Stroud, will the Seahawks trade up for Young? Should be a good fit. I'd do it for a one plus. Will Levis drop to #20. I doubt it. #5 may be too high. I'd maybe go defense at #5, Levis at #12 and then WR at #20. Will Levis be there at #12?
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If Bears trade to 4 and Cards take Carter or Anderson, Bears should be wary that Seattle could trade to 2 to get the D they want leaving Bears holding picks but not either of two guys most think will help Chicago.

Bears could select Myles Murphy but why not just get your guy?

1 Bears Jaylen Carter best for system
2. Seattle Anderson best for system

3. AZ Murphy
4 Colts WR Addison FA QB

5 Texans decide to get QB or trade down again to Panthers. Pressure on Carolina to get who they want as now it doesn't cost as much for other teams to trade up to 5 for a QB. Can they wait and hope Stroud or Young or Levis still available? Owner by this point pulling out his hair.
 
Mr.Scarface said:
Improving the team? Sure. Winning in the playoffs? No. Jimmy G has proven he can't stay healthy and you cannot win long term with him. A defensive player is not going to make you a superbowl contender, The right QB will. Out of the last 20 Superbowl winners, only ONE had a less than elite QB (Nick Foles...who had an elite playoff run). You have to go back to 2003 the last time an non-Elite QB won a Superbowl (Tampa Bay - Brad Johnson). Joe Flacco was playing at an Elite Level when the Ravens won in 2013. Otherwise, you can win with a GREAT Defense...and a game manager QB.
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Jimmy G has made a SB and a NFC championship game in the last two yrs. (A Tartt dropped int away from making 2 SB's in a row.) Give me that guy on a 3 yr deal and I will find a QB in the 2024 draft and have three 2024 1sts to go QB hunting with.
 
steelbtexan said:
Jimmy G has made a SB and a NFC championship game in the last two yrs. (A Tartt dropped int away from making 2 SB's in a row.) Give me that guy on a 3 yr deal and I will find a QB in the 2024 draft and have three 2024 1sts to go QB hunting with.
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He’s on the right team. Jimmy G not making no darn SB in a Texans uniform. Come on dude lol you’re giving him too much credit.
 
Texansballer74 said:
He’s on the right team. Jimmy G not making no darn SB in a Texans uniform. Come on dude lol you’re giving him too much credit.
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Nope but if you want to win more games and only care about entertainment then they should sign a vet QB and Draft a QB in 2024. It doesn't have to be Jimmy G.. Or does winning not really matter to you?
 
Would y’all consider trading for Lamar Jackson? Perhaps our #2, 33, 65 and a #1 pick next year? You’d have to pay him a ton of guaranteed money but then you would feel you would have a franchise QB with still #12 this year, first and second next year, plus we’d still have a good amount of cap room. I’m not going to lie it intrigues me. Until you have a franchise QB you have nothing really to be honest. The other option is bring in an offensive HC and draft CJ or Levis and see if they can turn him into something special. I just don’t buy Bryce Young’s size in the NFL and he may get taken at 1-1 anyway.
 
amazing80 said:
Once he gets in front of teams and starts participating in the draft process, I expect his stock to soar. I think he has the rawest talent of all Qbs, but is a big work in progress. He just reminds me so much of Josh Allen. Depending on who we hire as HC, I can see them liking Levis a lot.
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He has a high ceiling fer sure.
If Texans are prepared to let him earn his stripes and take his lumps for a season, it should stand him in good stead for year two.
It will depend on how patient the hierarchy are prepared to be while also considering the fickle fans - who may not be happy with a poor performance from their shiny new QB.
And this will apply to any rookie QB and it always takes time to adjust to the NFL, new coaching staff, the team around them and their home environment.
Trevor Lawrence looks good year 2 after a poor season 1.
 
cuppacoffee said:
I am all for trotting Mills out there next year with some sort of professional game plan and a coach who knows how to implement it.
Duggan can spell him if the need arises.
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Why not just keep Pep and go with his 2 QB system. You've got the personnel for it. Is that what you want to watch next year?
 
michaelm said:
Let me ask you this.
Do you personally believe that Young's size has zero potential to hinder his career in the NFL? I mean literally zero?
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You can predict a player coming into the league with an injury that may hamper or shorten a career (Stingley). But predicting injuries that have yet to occur? Carson Plamer was 6'5 232 lbs coming into the league. Did anyone predict his injuries? Roethlisberger was injured often during his career (playing thru them at times). 6'5" 241 lbs. Alex Smith struggled to stay on the field early in his career. 6'4" 213 lbs. Sam Bradford. Cam Newton. Robert Griffin. Where was the metric to determine their injuries?

There's no such thing as zero potential for injury. At any position. Trying to manufacture reasons not to take the best player. It's being the smartest guy in the room.
 
Texansphan said:
He has a high ceiling fer sure.
If Texans are prepared to let him earn his stripes and take his lumps for a season, it should stand him in good stead for year two.
It will depend on how patient the hierarchy are prepared to be while also considering the fickle fans - who may not be happy with a poor performance from their shiny new QB.
And this will apply to any rookie QB and it always takes time to adjust to the NFL, new coaching staff, the team around them and their home environment.
Trevor Lawrence looks good year 2 after a poor season 1.
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I hope fans give whoever the new QB is the Mills treatment.
 
Lucky said:
You can predict a player coming into the league with an injury that may hamper or shorten a career (Stingley). But predicting injuries that have yet to occur? Carson Plamer was 6'5 232 lbs coming into the league. Did anyone predict his injuries? Roethlisberger was injured often during his career (playing thru them at times). 6'5" 241 lbs. Alex Smith struggled to stay on the field early in his career. 6'4" 213 lbs. Sam Bradford. Cam Newton. Robert Griffin. Where was the metric to determine their injuries?

There's no such thing as zero potential for injury. At any position. Trying to manufacture reasons not to take the best player. It's being the smartest guy in the room.
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Says a fan of midget porn?
 
Lucky said:
You can predict a player coming into the league with an injury that may hamper or shorten a career (Stingley). But predicting injuries that have yet to occur? Carson Plamer was 6'5 232 lbs coming into the league. Did anyone predict his injuries? Roethlisberger was injured often during his career (playing thru them at times). 6'5" 241 lbs. Alex Smith struggled to stay on the field early in his career. 6'4" 213 lbs. Sam Bradford. Cam Newton. Robert Griffin. Where was the metric to determine their injuries?

There's no such thing as zero potential for injury. At any position. Trying to manufacture reasons not to take the best player. It's being the smartest guy in the room.
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So, zero concern for his size?
 
Texansphan said:
Rookie QBs rarely perform at full potential their first year - so many factors that can be optimized by time (experience) alone.
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So are you going to give them the Mills treatment?

I can't wait to see the double standards around here I don't think Mills got a fair chance even though I don't see him as a top tier QB, he was better than Lawrence his rookie ye. Difference is Lawrence got Pederson as his HC and Pederson put weapons around Lawrence. Mills got Lovie and Pep with no real weapons.

I'm hoping whoever the new HC/QB is Caserio drafts a bunch of weapons to put around the new QB.
 
Texian said:
I don't see any QB in 2023 that comes with the franchise QB label. Nothing to suggest that any of them is deserving of the #2 pick.

IMO with Kafka as HC, Texans would be better off trying to sign Jimmy Garoppolo to a 4 year $120MM contract and hope they are in a position to draft Williams or Maye in 2024. And with the 2nd pick the Houston Texans select DL Jalen Carter from UGA.
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Two questions for you:
(1) Do you really think that Jalen Carter alone could significantly elevate our defenses level of play ?
(2) After Young & Stroud is there a QB in this Draft who you think the Texans could select with our second (#12 overall) first round pick or our second round pick (#34 overall) who could be a potential starter for us ?
 
steelbtexan said:
So are you going to give them the Mills treatment?

I can't wait to see the double standards around here I don't think Mills got a fair chance even though I don't see him as a top tier QB, he was better than Lawrence his rookie ye. Difference is Lawrence got Pederson as his HC and Pederson put weapons around Lawrence. Mills got Lovie and Pep with no real weapons.

I'm hoping whoever the new HC/QB is Caserio drafts a bunch of weapons to put around the new QB.
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So, will the new qb be handed the starting roll from the get go? No competition in training camp?
 
steelbtexan said:
So are you going to give them the Mills treatment?

I can't wait to see the double standards around here I don't think Mills got a fair chance even though I don't see him as a top tier QB, he was better than Lawrence his rookie ye. Difference is Lawrence got Pederson as his HC and Pederson put weapons around Lawrence. Mills got Lovie and Pep with no real weapons.

I'm hoping whoever the new HC/QB is Caserio drafts a bunch of weapons to put around the new QB.
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Mills can still improve - I think he was very green when he got thrown in the deep end here with a less than ideal situation.
I would definitely keep him as backup and see if he can learn from some better (hopefully) coaching and team.
 
IDEXAN said:
Two questions for you:
(1) Do you really think that Jalen Carter alone could significantly elevate our defenses level of play ?
(2) After Young & Stroud is there a QB in this Draft who you think the Texans could select with our second (#12 overall) first round pick or our second round pick (#34 overall) who could be a potential starter for us ?
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(1) I think Jalen Carter could be as good as Quinnen Williams if not better. I'm a firm believer in building from the inside out. I do believe Carter would make a big difference in the Texan's anemic run defense and improve their pass defense too.

(2) I don't think anyone would be able to match Garoppolo's QB rating and completion %. I don't see a QB I would take on Day 1 or 2 of the draft. Some here are high on Anthony Richardson but I see him as more of a Vince Young. Richardson could become a top TE. Today, right now subject to change, if I were to take a flyer, it might be on this guy, Jack Haener:

 
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Texian said:
(1) I think Jalen Carter could be as good as Quinnen Williams if not better. I'm a firm believer in building from the inside out. I do believe Carter would make a big difference in the Texan's anemic run defense and improve their pass defense too.

(2) I don't think anyone would be able to match Garoppolo's QB rating and completion %. I don't see a QB I would take on Day 1 or 2 of the draft. Some here are high on Anthony Richardson but I see him as more of a Vince Young. Richardson could become a top TE. Today, right now subject to change, if I were to take a flyer, it might be on this guy, Jack Haener:

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Hell yeah re: Haener. His performance against UCLA was one of the ballsier things I've ever seen.

I am a bit biased as I am a Fresno State fan but I am not a college guy at all.

If we can get a trench guy at 2, a skill guy at 12, and then Haener at some point that's not bad.

But I do think we'll "feel compelled" to go big with #2.

Is it possible to take that Carter at #2 and then use #12 and others to trade up for Levis?
 
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