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Nick Caserio - New GM

JB said:
They've also made the AFCG in the last 20 years, something the Texans have never done
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JB said:
It's saying damn near every franchise in the league is a better franchise than the Texans
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When people talk about the Jags making it to the AFC Championship game this is all I can think of. Some guy celebrating for a 3rd/4th place finish like they got 1st/2nd.

I am not going to get worked up on it. It’s either 3rd or 4th place in the league. And they are watching the Super Bowl from the same spot as the Texans.

It’s a participation trophy. It’s not bragging rights.

There is enough about the Texans to be disappointed about and not have to create something out of nothing to be more depressed.
 
JB said:
Go back to the start of the conversation where TK said he wasn't convinced the Jets were a better franchise than the Texans. I didn't just start rambling out of the blue
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That's fine, but making your argument that they've got a 54 year old trophy to hang their hat on isn't much of an argument IMO.
 
TexansBull said:
b351ac78ac69b3de0093023d1c17c780.jpg

When people talk about the Jags making it to the AFC Championship game this is all I can think of. Some guy celebrating for a 3rd/4th place finish like they got 1st/2nd.

I am not going to get worked up on it. It’s either 3rd or 4th place in the league. And they are watching the Super Bowl from the same spot as the Texans.

It’s a participation trophy. It’s not bragging rights.

There is enough about the Texans to be disappointed about and not have to create something out of nothing to be more depressed.
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This is the Houston Texans every time they win a division "championship". They act like that was the goal all along and choking out in the playoffs is just a bonus.
 
steelbtexan said:
Cal has spent way too much time caring about what others think. This needs to stop, just hire the best coach he can find, instead of filling some type of silent minority quota.

Does he really think the fan base is that dumb?
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I don't think he cares what the fan base thinks. NFL revenue sharing and guaranteed annual profit means he doesn't have to care.

Not offensive minded, but I'd love to see Demeco Ryans here. But that's mean to Demeco, because I'd also like to see him go somewhere where he has a chance to be successful.
 
Double Barrel said:
I don't think he cares what the fan base thinks. NFL revenue sharing and guaranteed annual profit means he doesn't have to care.

Not offensive minded, but I'd love to see Demeco Ryans here. But that's mean to Demeco, because I'd also like to see him go somewhere where he has a chance to be successful.
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Question is will the Texans forgive him for suing them over that turf stuff?
 
badboy said:
yeppers but who would sneer at a Division Championship now?
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I'll always sneer at the word "championship" being added to a four team division. It's just stupid. The word should hold value. The can only be one, not 11 like the NFL does every season. JMO.

Now a division title? I'm all over that, even when you know in your heart and soul that it's the worst division in the NFL and your team is going to look like fools in the playoffs. I'd take a title and a 1-and-done any day over the thing they roll out there now, just for the entertainment (which is in short supply these days).
 
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Double Barrel said:
I'll always sneer at the word "championship" being added to a four team division. It's just stupid. The word should hold value. The can only be one, not 11 like the NFL does every season. JMO.

Now a division title? I'm all over that, even when you know in your heart and soul that it's the worst division in the NFL and your team is going to look like fools in the playoffs. I'd take a title and a 1-and-done any day over the thing they roll out there now, just for the entertainment (which is in short supply these days).
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like Pro Bowler; Generational player etc... it's what we have to work with.
 
Speedy said:
That's fine, but making your argument that they've got a 54 year old trophy to hang their hat on isn't much of an argument IMO.
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I wasn't trying to make any argument. Just trying to continue our conversation. I think the Jets franchise is better than the Texans franchise
 
thunderkyss said:
How so?
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I'm willing to admit my own fan bias probably plays into it, considering my own disappointment with the Texans org - in particular over the last 4-5 years, but here goes.

- Ahead of us in wins since 2002: Jets 142, Texans 140, and that gap could widen before the end of the season. Negligible, but still.

- Two conference championship visits ('09 & '10) they lost but at least they made it there. It's often been mentioned by fans that the conf. championship game would be the 'next step', we are still waiting.

- Tougher division - since Manning left I don't think any team in the league circles an AFC South game and thinks "this will be a tough one"

As for my previously mentioned bias - I slept better at night knowing, "we suck but at least we aren't the Jets (or Browns, Jags, etc.) but that's exactly who "we" are, and they (the Jets) have actually been slightly less sucky than our Texans. Now all I have is "yeah but we are an expansion team!" and that is starting to wear thin.
 
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Whatever your position is on 1.1 in 2023 if Caserio doesn't do what you think he should will that change your opinion of him?
 
I'm sort of wishy washy about Caserio. I like some of the moves he has made but scratch my head at some of the others. He did manage to unass Easterby from the Texans so that is a plus in my book.

Next year will be his third year as GM and so far it really doesn't look like we are close to being relevant in the league. If Lovie gets fired after this season then the new coach will have some input on 2 of our picks from the Browns. If the Texans put off firing Lovie until 2024 then here we are with a new coach starting over in year 4.

I guess my question is how long before we start seeing a competitive football team with Caserio in charge. It looks to me like they have a 5 year plan & for me that is just too damn long.
 
thunderkyss said:
I agree with that


... but we're talking tallest midget with these two
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My understanding is midgets do not like to be called midgets so when calling somebody who is a midget, midget you really should be calling the midget either by his/her/its name or little person or if the midgets are in a group midgets can be called little people.

Glad to be of midget service.. or is it service to midgets?
 
mws said:
I'm sort of wishy washy about Caserio. I like some of the moves he has made but scratch my head at some of the others. He did manage to unass Easterby from the Texans so that is a plus in my book.

Next year will be his third year as GM and so far it really doesn't look like we are close to being relevant in the league. If Lovie gets fired after this season then the new coach will have some input on 2 of our picks from the Browns. If the Texans put off firing Lovie until 2024 then here we are with a new coach starting over in year 4.

I guess my question is how long before we start seeing a competitive football team with Caserio in charge. It looks to me like they have a 5 year plan & for me that is just too damn long.
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I think it's pretty established that the McNairs wanted Easterby and Caserio would not terminate him without Cal telling him to.
 
thunderkyss said:
I agree with that


... but we're talking tallest midget with these two
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badboy said:
My understanding is midgets do not like to be called midgets so when calling somebody who is a midget, midget you really should be calling the midget either by his/her/its name or little person or if the midgets are in a group midgets can be called little people.

Glad to be of midget service.. or is it service to midgets?
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I honestly think Nick Caserio is doing well. Outstanding? Not yet but he has a draft and FA period to show what he can do. He no question learned from Hoodie, so I expect him to do well. The only issue I see is Cal. He is not even a question, over riding Caserio. If you go back and look at articles pre draft, you will find a trend. Nick Caserio was very high on Gardner. He was talking about his talent, size, speed, and more. Suddenly come draft day...Stingley is picked. Sorry, but anyone who isn't seeing how Lovie, Cal and Easterby were talking about Stingley need to go back and look. However, almost everyone who has any power on a team is not going to make a guy who is 70% about healthy after a Lisfranc injury the 3rd pick. Later on maybe say late 1st or early 2nd. But not round 1, pick 3. Look at players who didn't play much and Lisfranc injury (plus an ankle issue) and I bet 2nd round is the earliest that they were drafted. Meaning I don't think it was Nick Caserio who pulled the trigger. And if Cal keeps poking into situations like this than no GM or HC are going to look amazing
 
I am in the ok on NC.

Cap Management, bad, D at best. I understand he had some real woeful contracts to clear, but I don't think anyone can defend some of the mismanagement. I am hopeful (praying), he has learned, and that our nice cap starting next year is managed better

Draft - TBD. I think it is just too early to grade drafts. Most forums after the draft thought we had a A to A-, B+ type of draft. I do think Pitre, Stingley, Pierce, Harris look pretty reasonable as rookies. Green looked like a mauler in the run game until his upper body injury, but pass pro has been suspect. I think he will work out, but probably not OC at pick 15 type of work out. Metchie, we can dream still, seems like a good solid person and has a lot of skill. Not having fails is actually pretty good. I don't like that he uses lower round picks like lottery tickets, but he does get his guy spending that capital so outcomes matter.

Trades - Happy we are no longer the laughing stock on trades. By no means perfect, but he does take some flyers with lower picks, move around the draft, but the DW trade with the PR issues, NTC, etc was handled really well.

Free Agency - I just disagree on how many vets he paid to come here, think more UDFA would have been fine, but maybe they thought the product would be better. Think we could have found some more players the UDFA versus the FA route. I do think if we clear up the coach, with DW4, the cap, and some young talent infusion more vets that are better may come. I give him a C at best.

Easterby is gone!

We probably all give him more credit then what is due based on how bad it was before him, and the haul he got from DW4, so let's see if he actually grows into this more and how time grades his drafts.

So I give him a b- to a C+, could do better, could do worse with GM's.
 
Rich Schmidt said:
Cap Management, bad, D at best. I understand he had some real woeful contracts to clear, but I don't think anyone can defend some of the mismanagement. I am hopeful (praying), he has learned, and that our nice cap starting next year is managed bette
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Tell me about this woeful mismanagement of the cap. Give me those egregious moves that INDEPENDENTLY & SIGNIFICANTLY altered and/or handicapped the Texans from getting the cap in shape and ready before 2023. People throw this around, but doubtbul there's a single or significant number of collective moves on the level of say the Schaub extension they can point to that had that kind of impact.

Great we gave Britt 2 million to come back and try to play & it didn't work out.....Bro its 2 million.

So Eric Murray's remaining guaranteed money wasn't accelerated last year so we could be clear of his contract this year..his dead cap for 2023 is 1.3 million..can't even sign a premium draft pick with that money.

"Oh we shouldn't have gave Cooks that extension we should've traded him now he wants out"..........well, he was a productive player that got disgruntled...that could happen at any point with any player...Aside from that, he can be traded next year and would carry a much lower dead cap hit.

None of these moves were cap shattering on their own or collectively.
 
Mr teX said:
Tell me about this woeful mismanagement of the cap. Give me those egregious moves that INDEPENDENTLY & SIGNIFICANTLY altered and/or handicapped the Texans from getting the cap in shape and ready before 2023. People throw this around, but doubtbul there's a single or significant number of collective moves on the level of say the Schaub extension they can point to that had that kind of impact.

Great we gave Britt 2 million to come back and try to play & it didn't work out.....Bro its 2 million.

So Eric Murray's remaining guaranteed money wasn't accelerated last year so we could be clear of his contract this year..his dead cap for 2023 is 1.3 million..can't even sign a premium draft pick with that money.

"Oh we shouldn't have gave Cooks that extension we should've traded him now he wants out"..........well, he was a productive player that got disgruntled...that could happen at any point with any player...Aside from that, he can be traded next year and would carry a much lower dead cap hit.

None of these moves were cap shattering on their own or collectively.
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You could have just looked in the mirror at midnight and said "Texian Texian Texian" to materialize him before you. ;)
 
Mr teX said:
Tell me about this woeful mismanagement of the cap. Give me those egregious moves that INDEPENDENTLY & SIGNIFICANTLY altered and/or handicapped the Texans from getting the cap in shape and ready before 2023. People throw this around, but doubtbul there's a single or significant number of collective moves on the level of say the Schaub extension they can point to that had that kind of impact.

Great we gave Britt 2 million to come back and try to play & it didn't work out.....Bro its 2 million.

So Eric Murray's remaining guaranteed money wasn't accelerated last year so we could be clear of his contract this year..his dead cap for 2023 is 1.3 million..can't even sign a premium draft pick with that money.

"Oh we shouldn't have gave Cooks that extension we should've traded him now he wants out"..........well, he was a productive player that got disgruntled...that could happen at any point with any player...Aside from that, he can be traded next year and would carry a much lower dead cap hit.

None of these moves were cap shattering on their own or collectively.
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Look at the score board.
 
Some of us have been saying this for the longest time.

How/why did Caserio drafted a QB in the third round as his first draft pick?

It makes no sense.

Most of us (including some of the detractors) believe in building from the trenches.

But somehow Caserio (and those who trust in him) thought that Mills can be a shot in the dark for whatever reason.

They were willing to forego their own mentra of building from the trenches.

Not only that, they asked for more support to help Mills.

So funny.
 
76Texan said:
Some of us have been saying this for the longest time.

How/why did Caserio drafted a QB in the third round as his first draft pick?

It makes no sense.

Most of us (including some of the detractors) believe in building from the trenches.

But somehow Caserio (and those who trust in him) thought that Mills can be a shot in the dark for whatever reason.

They were willing to forego their own mentra of building from the trenches.

Not only that, they asked for more support to help Mills.

So funny.
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Caserio saw Mills as an upside investment. Many analyst viewed Mills as a RD1 QB who may have been among the most desired QB’s in the 2022 NFL Draft had he stayed at Stanford. Got him in RD3 of the 2021 draft instead. There was word that the Patriots had hoped he would drop to them.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
Caserio saw Mills as an upside investment. Many analyst viewed Mills as a RD1 QB who may have been among the most desired QB’s in the 2022 NFL Draft had he stayed at Stanford. Got him in RD3 of the 2021 draft instead. There was word that the Patriots had hoped he would drop to them.
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I did not mind the Mills pick, showed them thinking risk/reward and went for it. I am not sold that with the right coaching scheme that Mills could not be a borderline starter.
 
Mr teX said:
Tell me about this woeful mismanagement of the cap. Give me those egregious moves that INDEPENDENTLY & SIGNIFICANTLY altered and/or handicapped the Texans from getting the cap in shape and ready before 2023. People throw this around, but doubtbul there's a single or significant number of collective moves on the level of say the Schaub extension they can point to that had that kind of impact.

Great we gave Britt 2 million to come back and try to play & it didn't work out.....Bro its 2 million.

So Eric Murray's remaining guaranteed money wasn't accelerated last year so we could be clear of his contract this year..his dead cap for 2023 is 1.3 million..can't even sign a premium draft pick with that money.

"Oh we shouldn't have gave Cooks that extension we should've traded him now he wants out"..........well, he was a productive player that got disgruntled...that could happen at any point with any player...Aside from that, he can be traded next year and would carry a much lower dead cap hit.

None of these moves were cap shattering on their own or collectively.
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I am not near as sour as Texian, and I agree they have cleaned the cap for 2023 and have many times commented on that, but watching how he got there does not inspire confidence that he is a good cap manager. I agree with what you say, we are not handicapped going forward, but we could have had a couple more players this year instead of dead money (if added up) if he managed this better. So let's see if he manages the cap better. Get us a good coach now NC, and have a good offseason and we could have a competitive franchise. Dead money is $77m, that does add up to a number of potential players, but we needed to suck this year so ..
OIly One - $16.2m (Happy to eat this for the draft capital)
Zach Cunningham - $12.8m (Why did he sour so much on the Texans?)
Mercilus - $7m (OK, he couldn't play anymore)
Shaq Lawson - $5.2m (This one fully on NC)
Roby - $4.8m (we could have used a corner)
Pharoah Brown - $3m (Two tight ends that looked at and moved on from)
Auclair - $1.6m
41 more dudes under $1m
Cobb - $3.5m (slot receiver, good experience, often injured)
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Caserio saw Mills as an upside investment. Many analyst viewed Mills as a RD1 QB who may have been among the most desired QB’s in the 2022 NFL Draft had he stayed at Stanford. Got him in RD3 of the 2021 draft instead. There was word that the Patriots had hoped he would drop to them.
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Many analysts are wrong all the time. Mills still only had 11 college games, and not very good stats to go along with it. For anyone to think he would have been a 1st rounder another year at school is stretching it at best.
 
Speedy said:
Many analysts are wrong all the time. Mills still only had 11 college games, and not very good stats to go along with it. For anyone to think he would have been a 1st rounder another year at school is stretching it at best.
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not a stretch at all. Joe Burrow in 2018 at LSU was Mills-esque..3rd rounder at best. Joe Burrow in 2019 at LSU was damn near a no doubt Manning prospect.
 
Nick Caserio's first pick was a shot in the dark.

One he tried to fast track.

All the whole some of my good friends support the trial of errors.
OptimisticTexan said:
Caserio saw Mills as an upside investment. Many analyst viewed Mills as a RD1 QB who may have been among the most desired QB’s in the 2022 NFL Draft had he stayed at Stanford. Got him in RD3 of the 2021 draft instead. There was word that the Patriots had hoped he would drop to them.
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Ever so optimistic. :)
 
Rich Schmidt said:
I am in the ok on NC.

Cap Management, bad, D at best. I understand he had some real woeful contracts to clear, but I don't think anyone can defend some of the mismanagement. I am hopeful (praying), he has learned, and that our nice cap starting next year is managed better

Draft - TBD. I think it is just too early to grade drafts. Most forums after the draft thought we had a A to A-, B+ type of draft. I do think Pitre, Stingley, Pierce, Harris look pretty reasonable as rookies. Green looked like a mauler in the run game until his upper body injury, but pass pro has been suspect. I think he will work out, but probably not OC at pick 15 type of work out. Metchie, we can dream still, seems like a good solid person and has a lot of skill. Not having fails is actually pretty good. I don't like that he uses lower round picks like lottery tickets, but he does get his guy spending that capital so outcomes matter.

Trades - Happy we are no longer the laughing stock on trades. By no means perfect, but he does take some flyers with lower picks, move around the draft, but the DW trade with the PR issues, NTC, etc was handled really well.

Free Agency - I just disagree on how many vets he paid to come here, think more UDFA would have been fine, but maybe they thought the product would be better. Think we could have found some more players the UDFA versus the FA route. I do think if we clear up the coach, with DW4, the cap, and some young talent infusion more vets that are better may come. I give him a C at best.

Easterby is gone!

We probably all give him more credit then what is due based on how bad it was before him, and the haul he got from DW4, so let's see if he actually grows into this more and how time grades his drafts.

So I give him a b- to a C+, could do better, could do worse with GM's.
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From what I understand, Nick did clear some cap space. Did he clear up the mess he walked into when hired? Not all of it. And no GM could in a single season. I understand why he is picking up older guys on short deals. To save money and to keep drafting young guys in the hope of replacing the old one in a season or two. I don’t mind a 2mil 1yr deal if we get a very good replacement in the draft. Someone like Harris who got hurt but now seems to be starting to look good in spurts. If he plays even better next year and we pay off a 2yr guy and only have a rookie contract...I will gladly take it. 2mil off the books in exchange for 2mil over 3 or 4yrs is a good deal.
 
76Texan said:
Nick Caserio's first pick was a shot in the dark.

One he tried to fast track.

All the whole some of my good friends support the trial of errors.

Ever so optimistic. :)
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Mills would've been a 1st RD if he stayed is nothing more than pure spin and guessing. Many fell for it. Pep Hamilton who had Stanford connections convinced Caserio that Davis Mills was their guy. It was also Hamilton who also had Michigan connections convinced Caserio to trade up for Nico Collins.

I said at the time that Pep Hamilton's 16 jobs in 24 years do not speak well or instill confidence in Pep as a good or an above-average coach. Pep might be a great guy with a fantastic personality but as a football coach, not so much. It does appear that after two years Pep Hamilton will once again be looking for another job.
 
Texian said:
Mills would've been a 1st RD if he stayed is nothing more than pure spin and guessing. Many fell for it. Pep Hamilton who had Stanford connections convinced Caserio that Davis Mills was their guy. It was also Hamilton who also had Michigan connections convinced Caserio to trade up for Nico Collins.

I said at the time that Pep Hamilton's 16 jobs in 24 years do not speak well or instill confidence in Pep as a good or an above-average coach. Pep might be a great guy with a fantastic personality but as a football coach, not so much. It does appear that after two years Pep Hamilton will once again be looking for another job.
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He talks a good game though? Has to be doing something right if everyone keeps giving him jobs
 
Mr teX said:
Tell me about this woeful mismanagement of the cap. Give me those egregious moves that INDEPENDENTLY & SIGNIFICANTLY altered and/or handicapped the Texans from getting the cap in shape and ready before 2023.
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SnakeEyes said:
From what I understand, Nick did clear some cap space. Did he clear up the mess he walked into when hired? Not all of it. And no GM could in a single season. I understand why he is picking up older guys on short deals. To save money and to keep drafting young guys in the hope of replacing the old one in a season or two. I don’t mind a 2mil 1yr deal if we get a very good replacement in the draft. Someone like Harris who got hurt but now seems to be starting to look good in spurts. If he plays even better next year and we pay off a 2yr guy and only have a rookie contract...I will gladly take it. 2mil off the books in exchange for 2mil over 3 or 4yrs is a good deal.
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If the Texans had made the following moves they would've been $48MM UNDER the cap. They would not of had to resort to mortgaging the future to the tune of OVER $35MM in contract restructuring, $37MM in Dead Cap in 2021 and would've added a 2nd rd draft pick.
B. McKinneyRelease$7.00m
D. JohnsonRelease$6.90m
Z. FultonRelease$3.00m
Du. JohnsonRelease$5.15m
B. DunnRelease$3.25m
B. CooksTrade$12.00m
J. WattRelease$17.50m
Total Saved$54.80m
Many of the above, Caserio later cut, turning potential savings into dead money. Caserio instead decided to restructure every contract he could possibly restructure. He has restructured Tunsil and Cooks twice, making Cooks UNTRADEABLE and Tunsil a future salary cap monstrosity. Instead of saving $56MM, Caserio borrowed over $37MM from the future salary caps so he could rearrange the chairs on the Titanic in 2021. Idiotic!

Clearly, Caserio has no financial training, knows nothing about NFL contracts, and has illustrated he is fiscally irresponsible. This is what he knows and given additional chances nothing would change. In fact, if there is anything we have learned, with increasing salary caps and Caserio's fiscal irresponsibilities, the mistakes will only become bigger FUBARS on a much grander scale.
 
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