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Davis Mills getting no respect

steelbtexan said:
You should want Cal to bring Lovie back if it means getting a chance to draft Williams or Maye in 2024. Bring back Mills too for that matter. Having Lovie/Pep/Mills means tanking without having to try to tank. I just dont want Lovie making personnel decisions in the draft next season, since he most likely wont be on Kirby in 2024.
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If Lovie is still here, which I believe he will, whomever they draft with their 1st pick should validate who's calling the shots.
 
steelbtexan said:
Why is he inaccurate on sideline throws this yr when he was pretty accurate on those throws last yr, particularly to Cooks?
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.....my guess, Cooks isn't as reliable as he was last year. Have your top WR in a down season, injured, or gone while no one else has replaced that production, and even future HoF'er like Aaron Rodgers can come back down to earth in a hurry. Now hang that on Mills who has started his 31st game since HS and you might gather why he's going to need time to develop his NFL game. He should've had a true veteran QB on the roster to challenge and/or help with his development.
 
I agree Lovie isn't getting the job done. I would also agree that he doesn't have the players to get that job done. Who do you blame for the majority of this mess, the player pool talent or the HC? I would say the majority of the blame goes to the player talent, but that the coaching staff is failing the less than talented player pool.

I'm sure there's lot of others to blame, not even mentioning our crap ass owner.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
.....my guess, Cooks isn't as reliable as he was last year. Have your top WR in a down season, injured, or gone while no one else has replaced that production, and even future HoF'er like Aaron Rodgers can come back down to earth in a hurry. Now hang that on Mills who has started his 31st game since HS and you might gather why he's going to need time to develop his NFL game. He should've had a true veteran QB on the roster to challenge and/or help with his development.
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This is all true. However, timelines have condensed in today's game. So Casario will take someone and ride his future with that guy... The only question now really is: Can Mills show enough between now and the end of season where Caserio trades down from #1 overall and takes a late 1st round or early Day 2 QB to compete with Mills and covets the extra pick(s), or just goes all-in or Stroud or Young.
 
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ben.aires.smith said:
This is all true. However, timelines have condensed in today's game. So Casario will take someone and ride his future with that guy... The only question now really is: Can Mills do enough between now and the end of season where Caserio trades down from #1 overall and takes a late 1st round or early Day 2 to compete with Mills and covets the extra pick(s), or just goes all-in or Stroud or Young.
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Whoever he drafts at QB, I hope they check his towel collection first.
 
steelbtexan said:
Not necessarily,

I'm hoping for Carter over Young.
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If Caserio does indeed take Young, he better get that call right. Young fits the MO of a guy like Murray, and if he becomes a similar player, would be an albatross for the organization. Good enough to get you a little better, but not really good enough to take you anywhere or consistently beat good team. And in today's prima donna NFL, will probably ask for max contract after Year 3 and hold the org hostage until he gets it.
 
Thorn said:
I agree Lovie isn't getting the job done. I would also agree that he doesn't have the players to get that job done. Who do you blame for the majority of this mess, the player pool talent or the HC? I would say the majority of the blame goes to the player talent, but that the coaching staff is failing the less than talented player pool.

I'm sure there's lot of others to blame, not even mentioning our crap ass owner.
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This is still a big part of the OB mess. Caserio is navigating through the mess and should finally see some light a the end of the tunnel next season. I believe Lovie should get another season provided he'd take on a DC so he could concentrate on the HC'ing job. At some point this season. Caserio should pull Lovie and Pep aside and tell them to get the training wheels off this offense or next season Lovie and Pep will have to add a Asst HC/Passing Coordinator to the staff.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
If Caserio does indeed take Young, he better get that call right. Young fits the MO of a guy like Murray, and if he becomes a similar player, would be an albatross for the organization. Good enough to get you a little better, but not really good enough to take you anywhere or consistently beat good team. And in today's prima donna NFL, will probably ask for max contract after Year 3 and hold the org hostage until he gets it.
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Dammm, Young makes Murray look big.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
This is all true. However, timelines have condensed in today's game. So Casario will take someone and ride his future with that guy... The only question now really is: Can Mills show enough between now and the end of season where Caserio trades down from #1 overall and takes a late 1st round or early Day 2 to compete with Mills and covets the extra pick(s), or just goes all-in or Stroud or Young.
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Based on the Texans and McNair's MO.....Caserio will get 6 years minimum before a decision would be rendered on his future.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Dammm, Young makes Murray look big.
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What is Young's real height (not his listed height, which sometimes exaggerates 1-2 inches)?

Edit: Google lists Young's height as 1.83 meters or about 6". When I type in 'Bryce Young' on Google search, Bryce Young Height shows up as #3 search suggestion haha. That gets a lot of inquiries.
 
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ben.aires.smith said:
What is Young's real height (not his listed height, which sometimes exaggerates 1-2 inches)?

Edit: Google lists Young's height as 1.83 meters or about 6". When I type in 'Bryce Young' on Google search, Bryce Young Height shows up as #3 search suggestion haha. That gets a lot of inquiries.
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Young is listed at 6-0.....2 photos below might say otherwise since Nick Saban is listed at 5-6.
1668782545346.jpeg 1668782568561.jpeg

I might go more like 5-9 or at best 5-10.....or he's really a blood relative of Sammy Davis, Jr (Love the turtle neck and chain....just missing the high-ball of scotch).
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
Young is listed 6-0.....2 photos below might say otherwise since Nick Saban is listed at 5-6.
View attachment 11101 View attachment 11102

I might go more like 5-9 or at best 5-10.....or he's really a blood relative of Sammy Davis, Jr.
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Lol... Yep, boosting one's listed height is a tried & true maneuver in non-professional sports with would-be prospects. Especially those around the 6 foot mark. The optics are much better for pro scouts if you listed @ at least 6'0 as opposed to in the 5's... Happens a lot in baseball also.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
Lol... Yep, boosting one's listed height is a trued & true maneuver in non-professional sports with would-be prospects. Especially those around the 6 foot mark. The optics are much better for pro scouts if you listed @ at least 6'0 as opposed to in the 5's... Happens a lot in baseball also.
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Key is to make sure Mini-Me is handling the camera so the angle is always from under the chin.....works for Tom Cruise. I remember hearing someone yell, hey look, it's Tom Cruise....I kept looking around then I looked down and said to myself.....crikey, thought I smelled cabbage.
 
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There’s not enough coaching in the world to teach Mills to hit an out route consistently. We suck early in games because he cannot execute simple plays that are there for the taking. I don’t love Pep or Lovie, but Mills is sinking this offensive ship almost by himself.
 
KoolAid Sipper said:
So far, what do you think his strengths are? I've been critical of his footwork but I'm going to attribute that to happy feet and/or pressing too much.
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He has a good arm and was connecting on some good deep passes last year. He can read a D and he was looking off DBs last year much more than this year. He seems to be letting mistakes bother him more than last season. And yes, his feet are not always good. Don't get me wrong, he has made some good progress in that area. But he seems to be for whatever reason not going through the progressions. Last year he did it and was throwing with better foot placement. He was also stepping up in the pocket last year fairly often. I am very interested in if it's him choosing to throw so many short passes or if the coaches are trying to up tempo the game and ordering up passes in say his 1st two reads after the snap. He is not dumb by any means. It just seems that for some reason he is not taking shots like last year. I have seen him throw a 5yd pass with a clear pocket when another WR cuts and is wide open a split second after he has his arm coming forward to make the 5yder. Keep in mind that he is getting more time with this OL than last years.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
What is Young's real height (not his listed height, which sometimes exaggerates 1-2 inches)?

Edit: Google lists Young's height as 1.83 meters or about 6". When I type in 'Bryce Young' on Google search, Bryce Young Height shows up as #3 search suggestion haha. That gets a lot of inquiries.
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I've seen his actual size listed at 5'10" and 185 lbs. I even question the 185. I'm 5'10" and he has a slighter build than I did when I was 175lbs, and I've never been small.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
Young fits the MO of a guy like Murray, and if he becomes a similar player, would be an albatross for the organization.
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Similar in that he won’t put in the mental work that Murray apparently doesn’t? The problem with the Murray’s, Manziel’s and Vince Young’s of the world are that they think their athleticism is all they need to succeed at this level. This is the NFL where everybody has athleticism. If you don’t have the mental part you’re going to struggle no matter how talented you are.
 
Speedy said:
Similar in that he won’t put in the mental work that Murray apparently doesn’t? The problem with the Murray’s, Manziel’s and Vince Young’s of the world are that they think their athleticism is all they need to succeed at this level. This is the NFL where everybody has athleticism. If you don’t have the mental part you’re going to struggle no matter how talented you are.
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Agreed. It’s 1 on 11 when the QB has that mentality.
 
vtech9 said:
I've seen his actual size listed at 5'10" and 185 lbs. I even question the 185. I'm 5'10" and he has a slighter build than I did when I was 175lbs, and I've never been small.
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would you accept a UDFA contract? If so I suggest you start working on your downfield reads and how to hit the turf without serious damage.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
If Caserio does indeed take Young, he better get that call right. Young fits the MO of a guy like Murray, and if he becomes a similar player, would be an albatross for the organization. Good enough to get you a little better, but not really good enough to take you anywhere or consistently beat good team. And in today's prima donna NFL, will probably ask for max contract after Year 3 and hold the org hostage until he gets it.
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Young also fits the MO of a player who is able to use magic like moves as DeShaun Watson and Vince Young to get out of tackles behind the line of scrimmage. He fits the MO of a Jalen Hurts who hears the negativity that he will not make it in NFL but continues to put up tremendous stats especially after a defeat. Young also fits the MO of several NFL leaders whose team hangs on his word and plays to the end of the fourth quarter with him as their qb. I could go on but you get the message. We just don't know how he will do just like we don't know how any quarterback coming out of any draft is going to do. This selection process is nothing new.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Based on the Texans and McNair's MO.....Caserio will get 6 years minimum before a decision would be rendered on his future.
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The general manager Bill O'Brien before Caserio did not get 6 years as GM. Easterby was considered by some to be a GM and he didn't get six years. I am just saying that things could be breaking at the top into a new era.
 
Doc108 said:
I don’t think it was posted yet and I can’t find the link to post it but Mills basically said yesterday he thinks we’re coming out too conservative and I gotta agree. He looks mildly better when we open it up a bit so I say throw it all out there if that’s what he wants. Worst thing that could happen is we lose by a few more scores
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What about when its 3rd and manageable and instead of completing a simple pass, he throws it out of bounds or at the feet of the wr? He kills alot of drives early with his inconsistent play.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
If Caserio does indeed take Young, he better get that call right. Young fits the MO of a guy like Murray, and if he becomes a similar player, would be an albatross for the organization. Good enough to get you a little better, but not really good enough to take you anywhere or consistently beat good team. And in today's prima donna NFL, will probably ask for max contract after Year 3 and hold the org hostage until he gets it.
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The only likeness between Young and Kyler is their both black,smallish,and play qb. This is a generalization that doesn't match when if you watch their games, they're really nothing alike. We got to do better.
 
Speedy said:
Similar in that he won’t put in the mental work that Murray apparently doesn’t? The problem with the Murray’s, Manziel’s and Vince Young’s of the world are that they think their athleticism is all they need to succeed at this level. This is the NFL where everybody has athleticism. If you don’t have the mental part you’re going to struggle no matter how talented you are.
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We've seen this down on Kirby.
 
badboy said:
Young also fits the MO of a player who is able to use magic like moves as DeShaun Watson and Vince Young to get out of tackles behind the line of scrimmage. He fits the MO of a Jalen Hurts who hears the negativity that he will not make it in NFL but continues to put up tremendous stats especially after a defeat. Young also fits the MO of several NFL leaders whose team hangs on his word and plays to the end of the fourth quarter with him as their qb. I could go on but you get the message. We just don't know how he will do just like we don't know how any quarterback coming out of any draft is going to do. This selection process is nothing new.
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We do know how other QB's his size have done.

But hey, he's the unicorn.

BTW, is this a draft thread?
 
SnakeEyes said:
He has a good arm and was connecting on some good deep passes last year. He can read a D and he was looking off DBs last year much more than this year. He seems to be letting mistakes bother him more than last season. And yes, his feet are not always good. Don't get me wrong, he has made some good progress in that area. But he seems to be for whatever reason not going through the progressions. Last year he did it and was throwing with better foot placement. He was also stepping up in the pocket last year fairly often. I am very interested in if it's him choosing to throw so many short passes or if the coaches are trying to up tempo the game and ordering up passes in say his 1st two reads after the snap. He is not dumb by any means. It just seems that for some reason he is not taking shots like last year. I have seen him throw a 5yd pass with a clear pocket when another WR cuts and is wide open a split second after he has his arm coming forward to make the 5yder. Keep in mind that he is getting more time with this OL than last years.
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Good take, so next question to all. Since he is still early in his development, should he be benched for a spell, especially since almost everyone is saying he has regressed? For whatever reason, continuing to play doesn't seem like it's been advantageous for his development. This is regarding Mills and not about the other QBs Allen/Driskel possibly giving a better chance to win or seeing what they can do.
 
Mr teX said:
im only against firing Lovie after this 1 year mostly b/c it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense after firing Culley after 1 year. The team wasnt going to win this year..likely not next either…may as well keep him around..hope he has an epiphany at some point and changes his philosophy…long shot but one can dream.
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If you want to be as bad as possible next yr, so you can draft Williams/Maye, then you keep Lovie/Pep and Mills.
 
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badboy said:
Young also fits the MO of a player who is able to use magic like moves as DeShaun Watson and Vince Young to get out of tackles behind the line of scrimmage. He fits the MO of a Jalen Hurts who hears the negativity that he will not make it in NFL but continues to put up tremendous stats especially after a defeat. Young also fits the MO of several NFL leaders whose team hangs on his word and plays to the end of the fourth quarter with him as their qb. I could go on but you get the message. We just don't know how he will do just like we don't know how any quarterback coming out of any draft is going to do. This selection process is nothing new.
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Watson 6' 2"
Hurts 6' 1"
VY 6' 5"

Young MAYBE 6'

Young is probably more comparable to R Wilson and Kyler.
 
A lot of people, including "media scouts" thought had Mills stayed in college another year he would have been a first-round pick. This guy shows no first round ability. At least not consistently. Flashes of it last year, nothing much this year.

I'm not sure where the Texans go from here. The offense is really bad. The defense is 18th in points allowed. Not terrible...until you see they are 32nd in rushing yards allowed.

I'm not hearing of any clear-cut frontrunner in this upcoming draft.
 
banned1976 said:
A lot of people, including "media scouts" thought had Mills stayed in college another year he would have been a first-round pick. This guy shows no first round ability. At least not consistently. Flashes of it last year, nothing much this year.

I'm not sure where the Texans go from here. The offense is really bad. The defense is 18th in points allowed. Not terrible...until you see they are 32nd in rushing yards allowed.

I'm not hearing of any clear-cut frontrunner in this upcoming draft.
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Spot on.
 
banned1976 said:
A lot of people, including "media scouts" thought had Mills stayed in college another year he would have been a first-round pick. This guy shows no first round ability. At least not consistently. Flashes of it last year, nothing much this year.
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He's shown as much first-round ability as Daniel Jones, Tua, Mac Jones, even Tannehill.

I'm not saying he has franchise ability, none of those guys do either. But those are the guys you want, until you find a franchise guy.
 
Toro Bravo said:
Young is maybe 5'10" 185 lbs. I like his intangibles and mojo but I just can't get past his measurables. I can't see him excelling, much less surviving, in a 17 game NFL season on a bad team.
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I haven't watched much of him. Does he have a knack for not taking big hits? If he's getting out of the pocket making plays, but not getting hit... does his size really matter?
 
banned1976 said:
A lot of people, including "media scouts" thought had Mills stayed in college another year he would have been a first-round pick. This guy shows no first round ability. At least not consistently. Flashes of it last year, nothing much this year.

I'm not sure where the Texans go from here. The offense is really bad. The defense is 18th in points allowed. Not terrible...until you see they are 32nd in rushing yards allowed.

I'm not hearing of any clear-cut frontrunner in this upcoming draft.
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If you don't have a QB, you don't have a team. Taking any position besides that No.1 overall would be the high of idiocy. People were happy the Texans didn't take a QB this year, because this upcoming class is so hyped. Young, or whomever it will be.
 
thunderkyss said:
He's shown as much first-round ability as Daniel Jones, Tua, Mac Jones, even Tannehill.

I'm not saying he has franchise ability, none of those guys do either. But those are the guys you want, until you find a franchise guy.
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More like Trubisky and Bortles. :winky:
 
I don’t care whether a QB class is “hyped” or not. How often do we hear from draftniks that “next year’s class will be so much better!” only to get to the next season and that crop disappoints and is no longer as hyped. The grass is always greener. What’s important is that the team identifies a talent and can maximize that talent.

I don’t think anybody on here believes Lovie/Pep are the coaches to do that. But if they can find their own Mike Mcdaniel or Sean Mcvay/Payton/Lil Shanny… then maybe they will have a coach that can make something of a talented prospect.

Heck maybe bringing in a blue chipper and a proper coaching staff ignites Mills to raise his game and cash in on that potential. See: Phillip Rivers being drafted after Chargers had Drew Brees.

Brees sat behind Doug Flutie his first season. Then took over years two and three. Showed promise year two then looked to regress year three. Chargers draft Rivers and Brees raises his game holding the job next two seasons but got injured last game of year five. Chargers offered an incentive laden deal but Saints offer more money and guarantees.

Chargers give the reigns to Rivers and Brees goes to sign with Saints. Both went on to have a first ballot (Brees) and likely eventual HOF (Rivers) careers.
 
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D
Toro Bravo said:
Young is maybe 5'10" 185 lbs. I like his intangibles and mojo but I just can't get past his measurables. I can't see him excelling, much less surviving, in a 17 game NFL season on a bad team.
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Drew Brees comes in at 6' 209lbs
Kyler Murry comes in at 5'10 207lbs

Google has Young at 6' 194lbs at the moment.

I think he is worth the gamble.
 
theCATALYST said:
D


Drew Brees comes in at 6' 209lbs
Kyler Murry comes in at 5'10 207lbs

Google has Young at 6' 194lbs at the moment.

I think he is worth the gamble.
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And I hope Google is correct, but from looking at the guy in comparison to others in photos on TV etc. - I think when he's weighed and measured by the NFL the guy is '5'10" 180'ish.

If he's 6' and over 190 I'd probably draft him, and take my chances.
 
The1ApplePie said:
If you don't have a QB, you don't have a team. Taking any position besides that No.1 overall would be the high of idiocy. People were happy the Texans didn't take a QB this year, because this upcoming class is so hyped. Young, or whomever it will be.
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Yep, Jimmy G's really good. LOL
 
FuzzyLogic said:
And I hope Google is correct, but from looking at the guy in comparison to others in photos on TV etc. - I think when he's weighed and measured by the NFL the guy is '5'10" 180'ish.

If he's 6' and over 190 I'd probably draft him, and take my chances.
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True, I have no idea what his true measurables are, but anywhere close to what google claims and I'm all abord the train with drafting him.
 
theCATALYST said:
D


Drew Brees comes in at 6' 209lbs
Kyler Murry comes in at 5'10 207lbs

Google has Young at 6' 194lbs at the moment.

I think he is worth the gamble.
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It'll come out @ the combine and then we'll know for sure but there is no way you can compare his stature to Brees or Murray. Young is built like that Rocket back in the day (name escapes me) that disappears if he turns sideways. He's managed to survive so far in the SEC somehow. I'm growing into liking him more every week. He's carrying a not very talented Alabama team with a Bill O'Brien offense so he can play. I wouldn't be terribly upset if he was the pick and would hope the gamble paid off. It's a long way to the draft yet
 
banned1976 said:
A lot of people, including "media scouts" thought had Mills stayed in college another year he would have been a first-round pick. This guy shows no first round ability. At least not consistently. Flashes of it last year, nothing much this year.

I'm not sure where the Texans go from here. The offense is really bad. The defense is 18th in points allowed. Not terrible...until you see they are 32nd in rushing yards allowed.

I'm not hearing of any clear-cut frontrunner in this upcoming draft.
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In the 2023 draft the clear-cut choice for the number one pick is a quarterback just not clear which of the two it will be.
 
Toro Bravo said:
Young is maybe 5'10" 185 lbs. I like his intangibles and mojo but I just can't get past his measurables. I can't see him excelling, much less surviving, in a 17 game NFL season on a bad team.
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He would not have to be necessarily on a bad team. We have more than one draft pick.
 
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