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Head Coach Candidate (Lovie Smith Hired) 2/7/22

thunderkyss said:
We know that Cal is easily convinced about what he wants to do. We've seen it happen. If Caserio can't convince Cal to not do something stupid, Caserio is not the guy we need as GM.
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He didn't hire McCown. That may have been stupid. Hiring Lovie wasn't stupid when you were predicting 7-10 wins from this joke of a football team.
 
JB said:
And if your boss gives you an order you do what?
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As I've said numerous times, don't try to relate real life to the NFL.

As far as Caserio is concerned, his job description according to the hiring presser was to be in charge of football operations. That appears not to be the case. Caserio also has a guaranteed contract. He could have hired his guy as head coach and forced Cal to like it or fire him. And pay the remaining $$$ on the contract.

But, he didn't. Because Caserio is not really in charge. He's not a real GM. Basically, he's doing the same job here that he was doing for Belichick. Facilitating. Deferring to the owner and/or the HC. An errand boy.
 
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Lucky said:
As I've said numerous times, don't try to relate real life to the NFL.

As far as Caserio is concerned, his job description according to the hiring presser was to be in charge of football operations. That appears not to be the case. Caserio also has a guaranteed contract. He could have hired his guy as head coach and forced Cal to like it or fire him. And pay the remaining $$$ on the contract.

But, he didn't. Because Caserio is not really in charge. He's not a real GM. Basically, he's doing the same job here that he was doing for Belichick. Facilitating. Deferring to the owner and/or the HC. An errand boy.
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So who is a real GM that isn't a facilitator? Who is a real GM that doesn't defer to the owner? And don't come back with Belicheck because that is not average NFL either

edit: I don't guess any Houston team has ever had a real GM so I don't know what they are supposed to look like. Tex Schramm maybe?
 
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Lucky said:
Then Caserio is an errand boy and not a GM. And the point that the Texans need a real GM remains.
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I do not think doing what your employer tells you to do against your own personal opinion necessarily makes you a errand boy and I would think he made his opinion known.
 
JB said:
So who is a real GM that isn't a facilitator? Who is a real GM that doesn't defer to the owner? And don't come back with Belicheck because that is not average NFL either

edit: I don't guess any Houston team has ever had a real GM so I don't know what they are supposed to look like. Tex Schramm maybe?
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Reid,McVeigh, there are quite a few of them, honestly. I would've hired Dorsey when they had the opening and let him compile the talent like he did in numerous places, without questions vs a guy who you didn't know know who were picking players in NE. Posters don't think I don't like Caserio just because I don't agree with everything he does,but he deserves blame because he was the gm just like Casserly and Smith who both worked under a owner stepping in. Bob was like, we need a qb before they went down the 6'8 qb train that flamed out. They realized the mistake, gave up a pick and paid money to get rid of the mistake. Even in the flameout of Brock, it was clear, the roster needed a qb in the worse way not the way bob was recycling holdover qbs. Caserio has been solid, nothing spectacular. If he ever gets the coaching and qb right ,his grade goes up. If he doesn't, he's going to be like Chris Ballard of the Colts who is working under another meddling owner and qb wash cycles.
 
steelbtexan said:
He told Nick that he preferred Stingley over Sauce and Nick went along with what Lovie wanted because Nick didn't know they types of players needed to run Lovie's defense. That's the smart thing to do IMHO and exactly what I would've done if I was in Nick's shoes. They both looked pretty happy with the Harris pick and that was probably who Lovie wanted, for the same reasons. It's called alignment between the GM/HC and it's long overdue down on Kirby.

Do you really think Caserio picked Lovie's staff? You didn't answer that question. BTW, what is it specifically that you dont like about Caserio?
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Until leading up to the draft, we never heard of Stingley in the mix. Then Nick starts talking about risk vs reward of a player with injury history, then it started being repeated by Lovie. Personally, just watching last years tape, Gardner looked more like a lovie type of corner more than Stingley. Tall,long, physical guy who can play zone and man was more Sauce than Stingley. It was no different than Caserio drafting 2 injured guys in the 1st 3 picks . It will play out and I'm certain posters will continue to post about that decision.
 
Porky said:
Casserio is a symptom of a larger disease, but he is not the disease itself.

He is almost irrelevant. This is why Granny and Jethro hired Jack Easterbunny. You could hire the Indian from One flew over the Cuckoo's nest and be just as well off.

Granny and Jethro pick the HC making sure he's a nice boy and raised up right. Nick picks the assistants after making sure they are sufficiently part of the right culture. Gotta check with Jethro on that once he is done playing video games.

Granny, Jethro, and the assistants pick all the players. Get a few nice boys that pray and that winning thing will take care of itself.

Nick is just there to facilitate it all. He's a paper shuffler, a file clerk, and a yes man all rolled into one. In short, he's perfect for this org.
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After the Bill O'Brien plus the DeShaun Watson tornadoes that destroyed this team I cannot blame the mcnairs and I personally believe it's Janice not so much her son. Trying to clean up the manure those two left. Easterby is gone and everyone is at least okay with that. I am not against car stereo continuing depending on the head coach that replaces Lovie Smith and the sooner the better.
 
JB said:
So who is a real GM that isn't a facilitator?
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Joe Douglas - Jets
Brandon Beane - Bills
Howie Roseman - Eagles
Mickey Loomis - Saints
John Lynch - Niners

There are another 5 teams where the HC has the final, unimpeachable authority within their organizations. The rest have meddling owners or immature front offices early in their tenure.
 
leebigeztx said:
Reid,McVeigh, there are quite a few of them, honestly.
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Neither Reid nor McVeigh are GM's. If Texans had been around a bit longer and managed to win a super bowl, perhaps that Super Bowl winning HC could have the power you think they do but I doubt it with the McNairs owning the team. And you yourself are even acknowledging the McNairs interfere so expecting Caserio to disregard their wishes is ludicrous
 
Lucky said:
Joe Douglas - Jets
Brandon Beane - Bills
Howie Roseman - Eagles
Mickey Loomis - Saints
John Lynch - Niners

There are another 5 teams where the HC has the final, unimpeachable authority within their organizations. The rest have meddling owners or immature front offices early in their tenure.
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So you're saying none of those can be fired for displeasing their owner? Aren't the McNairs meddlesome and the franchise younger than any?
 
JB said:
So you're saying none of those can be fired for displeasing their owner? Aren't the McNairs meddlesome and the franchise younger than any?
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When Payton was with Saints, he had final say, not Loomis. Reid has final say in KC, so does Shanny with 49ers, and McVeigh with Rams. One of the reason McVeigh isn't in Dallas is because Jones wouldn't give him control over the 53. Shanny basically hired Lynch the same way Kubes hired Smith. Daboll basically hired the gm there also, he hand picked the guy. McDaniels in did the same in LV. It happens alot nowadays. Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't. You heard how many times BOB talked about being aligned when he worked under Smith. When Smith was fired or relieved of duty or whatever you call it, he hand picked Gaine to be aligned with him since they had worked before in the past or had a previous relationship. Little did he know the culture coach had other ideas. This is not my opinion, this is a known fact, look it up.
 
leebigeztx said:
Until leading up to the draft, we never heard of Stingley in the mix. Then Nick starts talking about risk vs reward of a player with injury history, then it started being repeated by Lovie. Personally, just watching last years tape, Gardner looked more like a lovie type of corner more than Stingley. Tall,long, physical guy who can play zone and man was more Sauce than Stingley. It was no different than Caserio drafting 2 injured guys in the 1st 3 picks . It will play out and I'm certain posters will continue to post about that decision.
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Lovie did go workout both Stingley/Sauce.

I really didn't like the 2 picks because of injury. Although if healthy Stingley was certainly worth the pick. So was Sauce.

I feel quite certain your last sentence will become true.
 
leebigeztx said:
When Payton was with Saints, he had final say, not Loomis. Reid has final say in KC, so does Shanny with 49ers, and McVeigh with Rams. One of the reason McVeigh isn't in Dallas is because Jones wouldn't give him control over the 53. Shanny basically hired Lynch the same way Kubes hired Smith. Daboll basically hired the gm there also, he hand picked the guy. McDaniels in did the same in LV. It happens alot nowadays. Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't. You heard how many times BOB talked about being aligned when he worked under Smith. When Smith was fired or relieved of duty or whatever you call it, he hand picked Gaine to be aligned with him since they had worked before in the past or had a previous relationship. Little did he know the culture coach had other ideas. This is not my opinion, this is a known fact, look it up.
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Yes, but we are talking the McNairs here... perhaps if Caserio gets the chance to be here awhile he can start talking Janice and Cal out of making rash decisions and letting him have control. But to expect that from him in his second year isn't logical. Bob McNair never gave anyone that kind of control so neither will Janice/Cal
 
JB said:
Yes, but we are talking the McNairs here... perhaps if Caserio gets the chance to be here awhile he can start talking Janice and Cal out of making rash decisions and letting him have control. But to expect that from him in his second year isn't logical. Bob McNair never gave anyone that kind of control so neither will Janice/Cal
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Everybody should know this by now. I've been saying this since 2010.
 
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Lucky said:
As I've said numerous times, don't try to relate real life to the NFL.

As far as Caserio is concerned, his job description according to the hiring presser was to be in charge of football operations. That appears not to be the case. Caserio also has a guaranteed contract. He could have hired his guy as head coach and forced Cal to like it or fire him. And pay the remaining $$$ on the contract.

But, he didn't. Because Caserio is not really in charge. He's not a real GM. Basically, he's doing the same job here that he was doing for Belichick. Facilitating. Deferring to the owner and/or the HC. An errand boy.
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A boss is a boss. And if that boss will get sued based on your decision he is going to tell you what to do and you will do it.

And to die on that hill for that decision is dumb.

31 other owners would force their GM to make the same decision to avoid a lawsuit.
 
TexansBull said:
A boss is a boss. And if that boss will get sued based on your decision he is going to tell you what to do and you will do it.

And to die on that hill for that decision is dumb.

31 other owners would force their GM to make the same decision to avoid a lawsuit.
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First, all 32 teams are being sued in the Flores lawsuit. It was not avoided by the Texans by hiring Lovie. It's a narrative someone came up with and stuck here.

Second, a boss may be a boss. But few employees have guaranteed $36 million contracts. Nick Caserio does. Again, we don't live in the world of the NFL.
 
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JB said:
Yes, but we are talking the McNairs here... perhaps if Caserio gets the chance to be here awhile he can start talking Janice and Cal out of making rash decisions and letting him have control. But to expect that from him in his second year isn't logical. Bob McNair never gave anyone that kind of control so neither will Janice/Cal
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They gave Bill O’Brien control and look what happened. So we can expect things like that JB.
 
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badboy said:
Your "marriage" seems to be to the GM and the new head coach who has been here for some time. My "marriage" is to the team and its history which got us into this position of no draft picks no decent free agents Etc. I'm sure you are as frustrated as I; I'm just tired of hearing excuses when things do not seem to get better but get worse. We were told it would get better in the last year of o'brien. DeShaun Watson was not the only stinking Apple in this Barrel . We were resigned but hopeful under the one year dude. Now we're in second year of a rebuilding program and already discussing a new head coach with another 5-year plan. I get it but I don't want to get it anymore. Sometimes when you know you need to have a bowel movement and you hold it that decision ends up in a mess. Yet the Texans seem to do this exact same thing repeatedly.

I have much more to say but I'm not. My rant is not directed at you Texans Bull but I took the opportunity.
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And you still haven't said what you would do differently than what Caserio's done with the lack of draft capital he had the 1st yr, or the lack of cap space that took a couple of yrs to cleanup? What you've done very well is b!tch and moan. What good does that accomplish?

I say this knowing that Caserio didn't draft the way I wanted him to draft the last yr (Neal/Davis/Sam Williams) and knowing the team would be further a long if he had. Still you dont see me b!tching and moaning.
 
steelbtexan said:
And you still haven't said what you would do differently than what Caserio's done with the lack of draft capital he had the 1st yr, or the lack of cap space that took a couple of yrs to cleanup? What you've done very well is b!tch and moan. What good does that accomplish?

I say this knowing that Caserio didn't draft the way I wanted him to draft the last yr (Neal/Davis/Sam Williams) and knowing the team would be further a long if he had. Still you dont see me b!tching and moaning.
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You'd think that people expected more out of this rebuilding team. Didn't most predict maybe 4-5 wins at most? Just wanting the team to be competitive and not blown out repeatedly like last year? Now they are acting like this team should be playoff contenders but are failing at it
 
thunderkyss said:
We know that Cal is easily convinced about what he wants to do. We've seen it happen. If Caserio can't convince Cal to not do something stupid, Caserio is not the guy we need as GM.
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He couldn't changed Cal's mind on hiring Lovie.

In fact no GM has ever been able to change the McNair's minds when it comes to hiring HC's. This is a McNair staple that's unlikely to change. We're all hoping after the last 2 HC search fiasco's that Cal finally lets Caserio pick his own HC. Although I'm guessing that's unlikely to happen and members on TT will continue to speculate who's to blame, like what's been going on down on Kirby for the last 2 decades. The true source of the dysfunction in the Texans org comes from the McNair's and that's unlikely to change anytime soon. Even as Caserio adds talent and the team improves the dysfunction will remain as long as the McNair's own the team.
 
steelbtexan said:
He couldn't changed Cal's mind on hiring Lovie.

In fact no GM has ever been able to change the McNair's minds when it comes to hiring HC's. This is a McNair staple that's unlikely to change. We're all hoping after the last 2 HC search fiasco's that Cal finally lets Caserio pick his own HC. Although I'm guessing that's unlikely to happen and members on TT will continue to speculate who's to blame, like what's been going on down on Kirby for the last 2 decades. The true source of the dysfunction in the Texans org comes from the McNair's and that's unlikely to change anytime soon. Even as Caserio adds talent and the team improves the dysfunction will remain as long as the McNair's own the team.
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Why would you categorize the Texans as dysfunctional prior to the debacle of the last 3 or 4 years? It was never anything special but I don’t quite see dysfunctional as the right term.
 
Lucky said:
As I've said numerous times, don't try to relate real life to the NFL.

As far as Caserio is concerned, his job description according to the hiring presser was to be in charge of football operations. That appears not to be the case. Caserio also has a guaranteed contract. He could have hired his guy as head coach and forced Cal to like it or fire him. And pay the remaining $$$ on the contract.

But, he didn't. Because Caserio is not really in charge. He's not a real GM. Basically, he's doing the same job here that he was doing for Belichick. Facilitating. Deferring to the owner and/or the HC. An errand boy.
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You dont know the language in the contract so you dont know this. You believe what you're going to believe. Truth is it's doubtful that if Caserio didn't do what the McNair's and they fired Caserio that the McNair's would have to pay off Caserio's contract. I think you've got a case of wishful thinking, since you didn't like the Caserio hire from the beginning.
 
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leebigeztx said:
Reid,McVeigh, there are quite a few of them, honestly. I would've hired Dorsey when they had the opening and let him compile the talent like he did in numerous places, without questions vs a guy who you didn't know know who were picking players in NE. Posters don't think I don't like Caserio just because I don't agree with everything he does,but he deserves blame because he was the gm just like Casserly and Smith who both worked under a owner stepping in. Bob was like, we need a qb before they went down the 6'8 qb train that flamed out. They realized the mistake, gave up a pick and paid money to get rid of the mistake. Even in the flameout of Brock, it was clear, the roster needed a qb in the worse way not the way bob was recycling holdover qbs. Caserio has been solid, nothing spectacular. If he ever gets the coaching and qb right ,his grade goes up. If he doesn't, he's going to be like Chris Ballard of the Colts who is working under another meddling owner and qb wash cycles.
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Difference is RS had over a decade to draft a QB and chose not too, the McNair's had to make him finally take a chance on the QB position and it didn't workout. Caserio's been here for 1 season where he didn't have 1-2nd rd picks and 9 games of a full draft class. Who knows how this draft will workout, so far so good. One things for sure Caserio understands the value of the QB position much more than RS ever did. The 1st pick of his tenure, whether right or most likely wrong was a QB. How many QB's did RS draft in 12 yrs?
 
Doc108 said:
Why would you categorize the Texans as dysfunctional prior to the debacle of the last 3 or 4 years? It was never anything special but I don’t quite see dysfunctional as the right term.
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I 1st started noticing the dysfunction in 2010.

The McNair's overruling their football people on who they could and couldn't draft/add in FA.
 
steelbtexan said:
He couldn't changed Cal's mind on hiring Lovie.

In fact no GM has ever been able to change the McNair's minds when it comes to hiring HC's.
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Like I said, not the guy we need.

Easterboy was able to play Cal like a fiddle, long enough to ruin the team for years.

We need an Easterboy/Casterio Borge type conglomerate
 
thunderkyss said:
Like I said, not the guy we need.

Easterboy was able to play Cal like a fiddle, long enough to ruin the team for years.

We need an Easterboy/Casterio Borge type conglomerate
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Again, the McNair's always hire the HC's. You're not going to change the way they do business.
 
thunderkyss said:
Cal was in on it until the lawsuit & political correctness took precedent.

This is what I'm saying. We need someone to tell the McNairs what to think (like Easterboy) who knows how to run a team (presumably Casterio)
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You've said this through the BOB/Culley/Lovie hires and 2 different GM's, one of which was the godfather of Cal's kids. Nothing has changed throughout and I dont expect things to change in the future. Hope I'm wrong and Caserio gets to hire his guy next go around. Otherwise I expect Caserio to ride it out and take his 36 mil to the bank laughing all the way.
 
steelbtexan said:
I think you've got a case of wishful thinking, since you didn't like the Caserio hire from the beginning.
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steelbtexan said:
I 1st started noticing the dysfunction in 2010.

The McNair's overruling their football people on who they could and couldn't draft/add in FA.
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steelbtexan said:
Janice and Easterby were until Cal threw a fit.

Caserio wanted Gannon.
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You're admitting the Texans dysfunction, that Caserio doesn't have final say in personnel, and can't hire who he wants as head coach. But I'm the one that has a case of "wishful thinking" because I can see Caserio isn't a full fledged GM?

Why would I wish for Cal to be making football decisions? When has he ever made a good one?
 
Texian said:
Gannon withdrew when told Caserio would be hiring his coaching staff and be in charge of all player personnel. That’s when Daniel Calhoun had to step in put an end to this charade.
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Nope, that happened when Caserio let Gannon know that Lovie was the hire a day or 2 before Lovie was hired.
 
Lucky said:
You're admitting the Texans dysfunction, that Caserio doesn't have final say in personnel, and can't hire who he wants as head coach. But I'm the one that has a case of "wishful thinking" because I can see Caserio isn't a full fledged GM?

Why would I wish for Cal to be making football decisions? When has he ever made a good one?
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Caserio isn't told who he cant pick. He's told he cant pick guys like Hill or trade for Hunt etc....
 
Lucky said:
All you've done is amplify why Caserio is not a real GM. He's a guy who works in personnel. Just like he was in Foxboro.
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Then the Texans have never had a real GM because this the way the McNair's have always operated and probably will continue to operate until Janice takes the ultimate dirt nap.
 
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