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The Official Houston Texans Draft Days Discussion Thread

leebigeztx said:
That's any player drafted. There are no sure shots.
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AAARGGHH!! You keep saying that! lol. Stingley with a healed Lisfranc has much greater odds of reinjury than a corner without one having first foot injury. I don't mean to insult but you are ignoring that.
 
Texian said:
After painfully listening to the entire Nick Cliche press conference about the Caserby draft I have a message for Lovie. Lovie going forward you need to make your own mistake and don't let others make mistakes for you. Stand firm in what you believe and want. If you don't you will end up like Matt Millen.
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There it is. As predicted.

Lovie would get credit for any perceived good pick, and Caserio would get the blame for any perceived bad pick.

I've seen one former player, Isaiah Stanback state emphatically that Stingley is 100% a Lovie pick.
 
badboy said:
AAARGGHH!! You keep saying that! lol. Stingley with a healed Lisfranc has much greater odds of reinjury than a corner without one having first foot injury. I don't mean to insult but you are ignoring that.
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I'm not, I wouldn't have drafted Stingley based on that injury and the position he plays. I'm saying all players have a bust potential non injury. I mean, if you're going to gamble that high, might as well gamble on a qb in my opinion. Time will tell
 
badboy said:
AAARGGHH!! You keep saying that! lol. Stingley with a healed Lisfranc has much greater odds of reinjury than a corner without one having first foot injury. I don't mean to insult but you are ignoring that.
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A AARGGGHH!! Linsfranc, you guys keep saying that! Let's wait and see shall we?
Nah, we get it - but how many "minor" injuries do any of these draftees have that could blow up on them? Are any of these uninjured guys immune or something? Sure, you want 100% healthy, team first, high character guys but how many of those are there?
 
Texansphan said:
Has he played post surgery yet?
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That is not the point. Before LisFranc he played seven games in 2020 and had less than good stats. His game film showed him floundering against average WRs. His three games in 2021 BEFORE Lisfranc was worse. Many are focusing on 2019 and his pro day 40 which IIRC was one attempt.
All want him to succeed but that does not mean we are going to ignore the evidence he might not have been the right pick. Some, not necessarily you seem to be saying "we got him so let's make him look as good as we can." IMO, there is evidence he will not succeed beyond 2-3 years if that. I see no evidence he will make even that.
 
steelbtexan said:
I dont know about stronger. Green's base is very strong and his movement skills are very underrated. Green really impressed me going against Alabama's Will Anderson playing LT and shutting Anderson down. Nobody did that all yr and Green was playing out of position.
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It doesn't matter what you post, Texian going to reply back and act like he's the draft guru. It's takes too much time to let it play out I guess. I think it's a good pick.
 
Texansphan said:
A AARGGGHH!! Linsfranc, you guys keep saying that! Let's wait and see shall we?
Nah, we get it - but how many "minor" injuries do any of these draftees have that could blow up on them? Are any of these uninjured guys immune or something? Sure, you want 100% healthy, team first, high character guys but how many of those are there?
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At the CB position Gardner, McDuffie, Elam, Booth, Hill, Gordon and McCreary. We keep saying it because it is true. FACTS show no corner has had successful career after surgery. You and others keep comparing non imjured players getting injured and I'm not ignoring that but foot injury makes it extremely more likely he will reinjure. Stingley can have same "minor" injuries you allude to so he is still behind curve health wise as those I mention.
 
badboy said:
That is not the point. Before LisFranc he played seven games in 2020 and had less than good stats. His game film showed him floundering against average WRs. His three games in 2021 BEFORE Lisfranc was worse. Many are focusing on 2019 and his pro day 40 which IIRC was one attempt.
All want him to succeed but that does not mean we are going to ignore the evidence he might not have been the right pick. Some, not necessarily you seem to be saying "we got him so let's make him look as good as we can." IMO, there is evidence he will not succeed beyond 2-3 years if that. I see no evidence he will make even that.
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I would've drafted Gardner, but I trust Lovie when it comes to defense
 
leebigeztx said:
I would've drafted Gardner, but I trust Lovie when it comes to defense
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agree on Gardner and only hope on Lovie because I do not think his pick. Stingley does not fit cover 2 but as I posted last night, I think he can make him succeed depending on how long the foot allows.
 
zshawn10 said:
Devonte reportedly had character issues including repeated domestic violence issues
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I do believe you're a victim of a draft week smear here.

Yes, Wyatt was arrested 2 years ago for a misdemeanor, criminal trespass. The police report stated, "neither party indicated they were in fear of their safety."
Georgia DL Devonte Wyatt arrested on misdemeanor charge of criminal trespass (espn.com)

In 2016 the NFL said anyone convicted of domestic violence would be barred from the Combine. Yet you and me, and everyone else know that DeVonte Wyatt was NOT CONVICTED because DeVonte was at the Combine turning the Combine into the DeVonte Wyatt Show. Players with domestic violence convictions barred from combine (nfl.com)
 
TheRealJoker said:
Hindsight always 20/20. I’m sure if Caserio saw how many CBs are still on board day 2 he would be reconsidering strategy at 3. Unless they had Stingley THAT much better. But most mocks had more CBs drafted and I didn’t see any that had Mcduffie taken in the 20s and few with Booth out of the 1st.
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well dang I saw CBs for day 2 and NFL GM Caserio didn't? Appreciate compliment. Even more disgusting for me was the not taking the offer from Steelers at 20 he mentioned. Green and Zion on board for 5 picks with Pitts using one of those for their player which wasn't an OG. Zion taken but that still left one at 20.
 
leebigeztx said:
See, there you go acting like you have a clue of what any team draft board look like. Me personally, I would've taken Sauce, but if not for injury, most everyone know Stingley is the better option. If the Texans take Sauce and the Jets take Stingley, is it still a reach? Reach is your assumption, not real life.
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Jets take Stingley it is still a reach but not on us. Stingley pre injury > than Sauce; post surgery flip it.
 
FWIW - Rumor is, the reason Travon Walker shot up the draft boards is one because of his Combine performance, obviously. The other reason is Georgia made their practice videos available to teams. The scuttlebutt is Walker was constantly blowing up and destroying the offense. It got to a point where Kirby Smart had to put Walker on the sideline so the offense could practice and get their work in.
 
michaelm said:
There it is. As predicted.

Lovie would get credit for any perceived good pick, and Caserio would get the blame for any perceived bad pick.

I've seen one former player, Isaiah Stanback state emphatically that Stingley is 100% a Lovie pick.
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If you actually had listened to the Nick Cliche press conference explaining the Caserby draft then you would fully understand the comment instead of making outlandish nonsensical comments.
 
badboy said:
That is not the point. Before LisFranc he played seven games in 2020 and had less than good stats. His game film showed him floundering against average WRs. His three games in 2021 BEFORE Lisfranc was worse. Many are focusing on 2019 and his pro day 40 which IIRC was one attempt.
All want him to succeed but that does not mean we are going to ignore the evidence he might not have been the right pick. Some, not necessarily you seem to be saying "we got him so let's make him look as good as we can." IMO, there is evidence he will not succeed beyond 2-3 years if that. I see no evidence he will make even that.
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As far as I know, there is no evidence that in 2020 and 2021 Stingley has come close to playing at the level he played in 2019. None, nada, zilch, zip, zero.
 
badboy said:
well dang I saw CBs for day 2 and NFL GM Caserio didn't? Appreciate compliment. Even more disgusting for me was the not taking the offer from Steelers at 20 he mentioned. Green and Zion on board for 5 picks with Pitts using one of those for their player which wasn't an OG. Zion taken but that still left one at 20.
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How can you be disgusted with a trade that you don't know the details of?
For all you know Pittsburgh might have offered 1-20 and a 7th.

Unless you've seen a specific offer I'm not aware of.
Just hand wringing
 
badboy said:
AAARGGHH!! You keep saying that! lol. Stingley with a healed Lisfranc has much greater odds of reinjury than a corner without one having first foot injury. I don't mean to insult but you are ignoring that.
Click to expand...

You sure about that?

I broke my leg when I was eight. Does that mean I'm more likely to reinjure my leg than you?

I don't think it works that way.
 
badboy said:
AAARGGHH!! You keep saying that! lol. Stingley with a healed Lisfranc has much greater odds of reinjury than a corner without one having first foot injury. I don't mean to insult but you are ignoring that.
Click to expand...

Personally, I would have preferred the Texans draft an Offensive Lineman or Defensive End at #3 over Stingley. My opinion is the Texans should rebuild by fortifying the trenches with premium talent.

That being said, I don’t believe anyone is ignoring his injury and it is premature to write him off as a bust or forecast his career as a failure.

Dr, Robert Anderson performed Derek Stingley Jr’s surgery. He gave Stingley medical clearance to resume football activities. Stingley is advanced in his recovery timeline.

It is worth noting that Dr. Anderson performed surgery to repair Cleveland G Joel Bitonio’s Lisfranc injury in 2016. G Bitonio recovered to play at a Pro Bowl level.

Stingley had an impressive showing at the LSU pro day and was equally impressive in his team visits.

The Detroit Lions listed Stingley #2 on their draft board. Multiple teams had him high on their draft boards.

No way he would have made it past the Giants.

Are the evaluators on NFL teams wrong and the fans here right with Stingley? We will definitely see soon enough.
 
The Lisfranc

Results: The study group was composed of 28 NFL athletes who sustained Lisfranc injuries during the study period, including 11 offensive and 17 defensive players. While 2 of 28 (7.1%) players never returned to the NFL, 26 (92.9%) athletes returned to competition at a median of 11.1 (interquartile range [IQR], 10.3-12.5) months from time of injury and missed a median of 8.5 (IQR, 6.3-13.0) regular-season games. Analysis of pre- and postinjury athletic performance revealed no statistically significant changes after return to sport after Lisfranc injury. The magnitude of change in median OPR and DPR observed in offensive and defensive Lisfranc-injured study groups, -34.8 (IQR, -64.4 to 1.4) and -13.5 (-30.9 to 4.3), respectively, was greater than that observed in offensive and defensive control groups, -18.8 (-52.9 to 31.5) and -5.0 (-22.0 to 14.0), respectively; however, these differences did not reach statistical significance (P = .33 and .21, respectively). Evaluation of the durability of injured players after the season of injury revealed no statistically significant difference in career length compared with controls.

Conclusion: More than 90% of NFL athletes who sustained Lisfranc injuries returned to play in the NFL at a median of 11.1 months from time of injury. Offensive and defensive players experienced a decrease in performance after return from injury that did not reach statistical significance compared with their respective control groups over a similar time period.
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This guy suffered a Lisfranc injury as a rookie

I'm not saying we shouldn't be worried. I'm saying I don't know.
 
I get being concerned about Stingley's injury, I really do. But since we (I believe) weren't in the operating room, weren't at the rehab/follow-on visits, didn't see the medical reports, etc, I think we have to trust that he has a clean bill of health. I strongly believe that professional football team with millions (tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions) of dollars on the line is not going to take a risk on a player with injury concerns that high in the draft, especially with other players who are (or at least appear to be) close in value at the same position. '

That said, I am incredibly nervous. A healthy Stingley is an incredible player. But, man, if that foot becomes a recurring problem, then the Texans just messed up in a big way.
 
TexansThunder said:
.... Dr, Robert Anderson performed Derek Stingley Jr’s surgery. He gave Stingley medical clearance to resume football activities. Stingley is advanced in his recovery timeline.

It is worth noting that Dr. Anderson performed surgery to repair Cleveland G Joel Bitonio’s Lisfranc injury in 2016. G Bitonio recovered to play at a Pro Bowl level....
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This is all new information for me. Thanks.
 
thunderkyss said:
This guy suffered a Lisfranc injury as a rookie

I'm not saying we shouldn't be worried. I'm saying I don't know.
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This is another draft choice with extremely high potential that will (probably) never live up to that potential, or come close to it. This guy is going to be a draft bust at 1.3.

Hopefully Caserio does better with the rest of the draft. I'd rather not begin thinking just yet we have yet another in a long line of crappy GMs.
 
rmartin65 said:
I get being concerned about Stingley's injury, I really do. But since we (I believe) weren't in the operating room, weren't at the rehab/follow-on visits, didn't see the medical reports, etc, I think we have to trust that he has a clean bill of health. I strongly believe that professional football team with millions (tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions) of dollars on the line is not going to take a risk on a player with injury concerns that high in the draft, especially with other players who are (or at least appear to be) close in value at the same position. '

That said, I am incredibly nervous. A healthy Stingley is an incredible player. But, man, if that foot becomes a recurring problem, then the Texans just messed up in a big way.
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Yep, pretty amazing that posters working 9-5 without any medical clearance(except CND) can say what can happen injury wise to a 21 yr old. Like I said, I would've taken Gardner because of the injury, but every player is 1 play away from retirement.
 
TexansThunder said:
Personally, I would have preferred the Texans draft an Offensive Lineman or Defensive End at #3 over Stingley. My opinion is the Texans should rebuild by fortifying the trenches with premium talent.

That being said, I don’t believe anyone is ignoring his injury and it is premature to write him off as a bust or forecast his career as a failure.

Dr, Robert Anderson performed Derek Stingley Jr’s surgery. He gave Stingley medical clearance to resume football activities. Stingley is advanced in his recovery timeline.

It is worth noting that Dr. Anderson performed surgery to repair Cleveland G Joel Bitonio’s Lisfranc injury in 2016. G Bitonio recovered to play at a Pro Bowl level.

Stingley had an impressive showing at the LSU pro day and was equally impressive in his team visits.

The Detroit Lions listed Stingley #2 on their draft board. Multiple teams had him high on their draft boards.

No way he would have made it past the Giants.

Are the evaluators on NFL teams wrong and the fans here right with Stingley? We will definitely see soon enough.
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You make some excellent points and appreciate the comments and info about the surgeon, Dr Anderson.
I don't for an instant doubt Stingleys natural ability and he may also be a superior talent to Sauce for all I know,
and under the circumstances I certainly assume the Texans view him as such.
The thing is the Cinci corner has been outstanding the last two year and as far as I know has had no significant injures
during his career, whereas Stingley has had serious injury and has missed most of his scheduled games the last 2 years because of injury.
 
Texian said:
FWIW - Rumor is, the reason Travon Walker shot up the draft boards is one because of his Combine performance, obviously. The other reason is Georgia made their practice videos available to teams. The scuttlebutt is Walker was constantly blowing up and destroying the offense. It got to a point where Kirby Smart had to put Walker on the sideline so the offense could practice and get their work in.
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Walker has one the absolute worse pass rush win rate in all of college foorball. I think teams who thought of picking him that high fell in love with the underwear olympics. People keep trying to compare him to Aldon Smith which is ridiculous. Smith had special,special traits as a pass rusher. Even at Mizzou, the inury sidelined him from dominating. Walker doesn't posseses any move after being at an elite program for 4 years. We will see really soon. I think he will be a bust, I think he will just be like a Justin Smith in Cincy type of player.
 
leebigeztx said:
Yep, pretty amazing that posters working 9-5 without any medical clearance(except CND) can say what can happen injury wise to a 21 yr old. Like I said, I would've taken Gardner because of the injury, but every player is 1 play away from retirement.
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Yep, an awful lot of Doctors in here. With access to all the facts. Man if it was me, I would want all that info and direct contact with all the facts like a pro outfit like Texans. Wait...
 
leebigeztx said:
Walker has one the absolute worse pass rush win rate in all of college foorball. I think teams who thought of picking him that high fell in love with the underwear olympics. People keep trying to compare him to Aldon Smith which is ridiculous. Smith had special,special traits as a pass rusher. Even at Mizzou, the inury sidelined him from dominating. Walker doesn't posseses any move after being at an elite program for 4 years. We will see really soon. I think he will be a bust, I think he will just be like a Justin Smith in Cincy type of player.
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How many of his practice tapes did you watch exactly?
 
TexansThunder said:
Personally, I would have preferred the Texans draft an Offensive Lineman or Defensive End at #3 over Stingley. My opinion is the Texans should rebuild by fortifying the trenches with premium talent.

That being said, I don’t believe anyone is ignoring his injury and it is premature to write him off as a bust or forecast his career as a failure.

Dr, Robert Anderson performed Derek Stingley Jr’s surgery. He gave Stingley medical clearance to resume football activities. Stingley is advanced in his recovery timeline.

It is worth noting that Dr. Anderson performed surgery to repair Cleveland G Joel Bitonio’s Lisfranc injury in 2016. G Bitonio recovered to play at a Pro Bowl level.

Stingley had an impressive showing at the LSU pro day and was equally impressive in his team visits.

The Detroit Lions listed Stingley #2 on their draft board. Multiple teams had him high on their draft boards.

No way he would have made it past the Giants.

Are the evaluators on NFL teams wrong and the fans here right with Stingley? We will definitely see soon enough.
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I know Dr. Anderson.........and indeed he is an excellent surgeon. With that said, following this type of surgery, the only thing that "the surgery was successful" means is that the structures were re-placed and secured in proper anatomical position. That part of the healing process determines if a player may be medically cleared to resume football activities..........not how he will be capable of performing. "Successful" surgery" gives the player the best chance for the future. Beyond that, no surgeon can guarantee future performance
 
michaelm said:
How can you be disgusted with a trade that you don't know the details of?
For all you know Pittsburgh might have offered 1-20 and a 7th.

Unless you've seen a specific offer I'm not aware of.
Just hand wringing
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Simple. Both Caserio and Steelers said a deal was in place and Texans backed out. Nick, I think it is logical to assume, would not have agreed to an even trade down from 15 to 20. He had to be getting something. His trade of a 6th and 7th for a 5th and then his trade from 13 to 15 brought 3 extra picks. Not difficult to extract from that if he went from #15 1050 to #20 850 he would have gotten something. Steelers wanted Pickett and good on them got him anyway. Pitt was concerned about Saints and that's reported so pressure on to get their QB. You know it would have been much more than a 7th as it was just not an offer it was an accepted offer. If it had been a 7th that would have shown Nick had made a stupid trade agreement but I don't think he did based on two trades I mention. No indication he is interested in future picks so 3.84 at minimum in play. Yes other options could have been agreed to but based on how we watched Nick operate most likely was 84.
 
thunderkyss said:
You sure about that?

I broke my leg when I was eight. Does that mean I'm more likely to reinjure my leg than you?

I don't think it works that way.
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I would think you know that a bone in leg is not same as those in feet. The info you and I both have read from Doc is what I base my POV on. Stingley like Green is ours now so I am moving on. rah rah

CloakNNNdagger said:
It has a tendency to work that way with joint injuries.
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Texansphan said:
Yep, an awful lot of Doctors in here. With access to all the facts. Man if it was me, I would want all that info and direct contact with all the facts like a pro outfit like Texans. Wait...
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'cause the Texans have made great decisions on player with injuries historically
 
LZ’s mock draft day 2. He got Stingley and Green to Texans right yesterday.

www.nfl.com

2022 NFL Draft, Day 2 mock: QBs Malik Willis, Desmond Ridder and Matt Corral all go in Round 2

With Round 1 of the 2022 NFL Draft in the books, Lance Zierlein projects how Rounds 2 and 3 will play out on Friday night. And in this projection, we get a second-round quarterback run, with Malik Willis, Desmond Ridder and Matt Corral all coming off the
www.nfl.com www.nfl.com

37: Breece Hall

68: Nik Bonitto

80: Alontae Taylor
 
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