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Upgrading Offensive Line via Draft

steelbtexan said:
Look at the Rams this yr as my rebuttal.
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Agree.

Look at the Bengals. OL is subject but they can put up points.

The Texans pass pro is not as bad as the Bengals.

I'm not arguing to ignore the OL. I'm saying don't "sell out" the "team build" approach to draft a LT we don't need. Don't draft a guard at #3 overall.

Wisely use those picks with an eye on the entire team now & in the future.
 
thunderkyss said:
So let's trade up & get the #1 overall pick.

Or let's work the draft & build a complete team
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We have different philosophies on how to build a team. I'm for trading down if there are players that are comparable. Say Sauce and a healthy Stingley. But when you get a chance to draft a star level player, you should never pass on him. Those guys are the guys you're looking for.

I understand why you think this way because the Calhoun's have been so bad at drafting in rds 2-4. Most teams can find the type of guys you're talking about in those rds. After last years draft, I'm feeling better about Caserios ability to hit on guys in those rds.
 
steelbtexan said:
Look at the Rams this yr as my rebuttal. You need 4-5 star level players on each side of the ball to win a championship and those usually come from higher picks. They also can come through trades/fa as the Rams have proven. You also need the type of players you're talking about. But those can be gotten rds 3-5 like the Rams have also proven. You can also get these guys as cheap fa signings.

But if you have a chance to get a Donald or a Ramsey you do it and fill in around them.
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One reason Rams can “eff them picks” is they have had success hitting on mid-late round picks unlike some teams local to Houston.

Pendergast did a breakdown on 610 last week. Rams have swung for the fences and whiffed terribly in recent years. But they have hit on enough bargain slots (mid-late round and udfas) that when they do hit on a big move its a homerun hit that can be the difference between “competing” and winning a Super Bowl.

Texans have made big swings too. Trading for Watson and Tunsil two off the top of my head. But they did not have the glue guys to pay off… and we have discussed quite a bit whether those two players in particular are “good enough” to be star level win Super Bowl players over thousands of posts so I wont rehash that here.
 
thunderkyss said:
Agree.

Look at the Bengals. OL is subject but they can put up points.

The Texans pass pro is not as bad as the Bengals.

I'm not arguing to ignore the OL. I'm saying don't "sell out" the "team build" approach to draft a LT we don't need. Don't draft a guard at #3 overall.

Wisely use those picks with an eye on the entire team now & in the future.
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I'm not arguing this either. I'm arguing Neal is the best player in this draft and if available Caserio should pick him. The Bengals were an abberration last year. This really speaks to how good Joey B really was last year.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm not arguing this either. I'm arguing Neal is the best player in this draft and if available Caserio should pick him. The Bengals were an abberration last year. This really speaks to how good Joey B really was last year.
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The Burrow/Chase connection is special. Right up there with Rodgers/Adams imo.

But if we’re being honest NFC > AFC overall. I wonder how Bengals would’ve fared against the 49ers in bad weather like what knocked the Packers out this year?
 
Texansphan said:
If you liked the draft, why are you afraid it is a lost year?
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Failed to hire a competent Head Coach.

Failed to reign in their franchise QB.

Therefore Texans identity last year was one of failure.

Draft picks aside, still have to prove otherwise with 4th coach in 3 years.
 
steelbtexan said:
Look at the Rams this yr as my rebuttal. You need 4-5 star level players on each side of the ball to win a championship and those usually come from higher picks. They also can come through trades/fa as the Rams have proven. You also need the type of players you're talking about. But those can be gotten rds 3-5 like the Rams have also proven. You can also get these guys as cheap fa signings.

But if you have a chance to get a Donald or a Ramsey you do it and fill in around them.
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I think we need to have 50 good players before searching out for super stars. The latter can’t come first.
 
beerlover said:
Failed to hire a competent Head Coach.

Failed to reign in their franchise QB.

Therefore Texans identity last year was one of failure.

Draft picks aside, still have to prove otherwise with 4th coach in 3 years.
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Culley was a failed experiment.
Watson was a problem child.
Texans did not deliberately try to fail.
 
beerlover said:
I’ll advised experiment
Watson is a grown ass man
After 20 years Texans are still expansion tier quality
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Hindsight is always 20/20.
Watson might be grown ass, but he is far far away from a real man.
After 10 years they had an elite defense. More recently, we had a HC come GM - that, was ill advised.
 
TexansBull said:
I think we need to have 50 good players before searching out for super stars. The latter can’t come first.
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You get 40 good players and you won't be picking high enough to get the kind of guys you want. You have to be very lucky to have a Watt/Donald available outside the top 5.
 
steelbtexan said:
You get 40 good players and you won't be picking high enough to get the kind of guys you want. You have to be very lucky to have a Watt/Donald available outside the top 5.
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And that’s what the Rams did. Got their 40 and then started trading their late 1st round draft picks.

I get what you are saying. It’s just the Texans aren’t in a place to do that just yet. Walk before run.

On the flip side - the Browns think they are and are doing what you suggest.
 
steelbtexan said:
You get 40 good players and you won't be picking high enough to get the kind of guys you want. You have to be very lucky to have a Watt/Donald available outside the top 5.
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You have to be able to generate draft picks some way other than tanking.
 
thunderkyss said:
You have to be able to generate draft picks some way other than tanking.
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Why?

And that's not what I'm talking about. Right now the Calhoun's suck. They need difference makers. I'm hoping Caserio Can nail 3 or 4 in this draft as well as a couple more solid players.

I expect the Calhoun's to win 6 or 7 games next year and Cleveland to win about the same amount. This should lead to another 3 star level players and with the extra 3rd I expect another 2-3 solid players.

That's 10-11 star to solid level players in the next 2 drafts and that doesn't even take into account the 5-6 solid players already on the team and possible fa additions next off-season when the cap is cleaned. The future is bright if 1. Mills is the future at QB 2. Caserio hits on the draft picks.

The team should be built be then and the Calhoun's also have the Browns 2024 1st in addition to their own.
 
Just based off PFF grades for OL 2021

29. HOUSTON TEXANS (UP 1)
LT Geron Christian Sr. | 59.5
LG Tytus Howard | 51.9
C Justin Britt | 64.5
RG Max Scharping | 60.0
RT Charlie Heck | 56.0

Eleven different offensive linemen played at least 58 snaps for the Texans this season, with 10 of them playing over 200. The team’s biggest issue is that those who played the most earned some of the worst grades, with the unit's top three players by workload earning PFF grades between 51.9 and 60.0. Five different linemen earned a run-blocking grade lower than 50.0, and the line as a whole earned the worst PFF run-blocking grade (47.4) in the league — the only unit to grade lower than 55.0.
 
beerlover said:
Just based off PFF grades for OL 2021

29. HOUSTON TEXANS (UP 1)
LT Geron Christian Sr. | 59.5
LG Tytus Howard | 51.9
C Justin Britt | 64.5
RG Max Scharping | 60.0
RT Charlie Heck | 56.0

Eleven different offensive linemen played at least 58 snaps for the Texans this season, with 10 of them playing over 200. The team’s biggest issue is that those who played the most earned some of the worst grades, with the unit's top three players by workload earning PFF grades between 51.9 and 60.0. Five different linemen earned a run-blocking grade lower than 50.0, and the line as a whole earned the worst PFF run-blocking grade (47.4) in the league — the only unit to grade lower than 55.0.
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This is a case where numbers don't lie.

Hopefully an upgrade or 2 happens in the draft and even though he's avg Cann will be an upgrade. I would like to see Howard's numbers at RT.

TK saying the ol is ok. LMAO
 
steelbtexan said:
This is a case where numbers don't lie.

Hopefully an upgrade or 2 happens in the draft and even though he's avg Cann will be an upgrade. I would like to see Howard's numbers at RT.

TK saying the ol is ok. LMAO
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Should have been more specific, this applies to the Texans run blocking where they ranked 30th in 2020 according to PFF but 23 overall. Chargers with Campen, ranked dead last 32nd in 2020. Staley came in and hired Frank Smith, excellent coach who helped improve OL to 10th in one season from 32nd (also drafted Rashawn Slater LT 13th overall and couple free agents).

Unfortunately for Chargers, McDonald (who was my #1 Head Coaching candidate) poached him to be his/Miami offensive coordinator. Now another new OL coach from New Orleans Brendan Nugent. I would be very skeptical except they have in place built continuity, left side of OL, so will probably need to add couple new players to upgrade right side.

Point is, you need both. Players and Coach. I feel a lot better with Warhop he has experience over Nugent. Right side a problem for both teams. Whether Texans have Ekwonu or Evan Neal that’s a huge leg up for Warhop. Next would be one of those Guards who could kick into Center position when Britt can no longer contribute. Zion Johnson would be great option #13. Along with Warhop, you could see Texans ranking in 2022 a jump just like Chargers to a top 10 unit.
 
thunderkyss said:
My question is why? What was Laremy Tunsil's grade in 2020 & 2021.

I don't think lack of talent is the main issue.
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Tunsil only played 4 games last yr. He made the pro bowl in 2020, so his grade couldn't have been too bad. Although I'm sure playing nim playing next to Howard didn't help his numbers. BTW, the reason I want to know his RT numbers is to find out what we're going to see at RT next year. A perfectly normal question to ask.

Nice try at deflection though.
 
steelbtexan said:
Tunsil only played 4 games last yr. He made the pro bowl in 2020, so his grade couldn't have been too bad. Although I'm sure playing nim playing next to Howard didn't help his numbers.

Nice try at deflection though.
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It's not deflection when it's been my point all along.

He went from 74 overall (estimating) to a 60.

His first two years, he was in the 60s, then jumped to 74 his third year, then 80s.

Imagine if Devlin was his coach for the first four years of his career.
 
thunderkyss said:
It's not deflection when it's been my point all along.

He went from 74 overall (estimating) to a 60.

His first two years, he was in the 60s, then jumped to 74 his third year, then 80s.

Imagine if Devlin was his coach for the first four years of his career.
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Are you talking about Tunsil or Howard?
 
beerlover said:
Just based off PFF grades for OL 2021

29. HOUSTON TEXANS (UP 1)
LT Geron Christian Sr. | 59.5
LG Tytus Howard | 51.9
C Justin Britt | 64.5
RG Max Scharping | 60.0
RT Charlie Heck | 56.0

Eleven different offensive linemen played at least 58 snaps for the Texans this season, with 10 of them playing over 200. The team’s biggest issue is that those who played the most earned some of the worst grades, with the unit's top three players by workload earning PFF grades between 51.9 and 60.0. Five different linemen earned a run-blocking grade lower than 50.0, and the line as a whole earned the worst PFF run-blocking grade (47.4) in the league — the only unit to grade lower than 55.0.
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Like these numbers - to support my position that the draft needs to emphasize the IOL

I have to chirp in once a week, or so. My position is unchanged. Trade down from #3 if we get a solid offer. I'd prefer to trade down from #13, but unless this trade occurs before the draft, can't take the chance this trade doesn't materialize if we get an offer for 3.

My target is still Green, somewhere about 18 to 20. I'd also be targeting Kinnard in the 2nd, but not as an OT. He's a RG. And I'd be targeting Salyer as a fit at OC.

The value of trading down is to further target Skyy Moore or Alec Pierce in the 2nd; and I'd like to take a RB with 3/68. Here I have James Cook as a perfect fit in Pep's offense. I also like D'vonte Price, maybe in the 4th, as a downhill power runner who also has speed. Running Back is a deep position.

If we can squeeze in a defensive player, here or there, I'm good with that.
 
Okay…..I just read the best article on Ikeem Ekwonu yet. The article is available on ESPN.com in the NFL section.

Ekwonu was a high school wrestler and as crazy as it sounds….he ran anchor on his HS Track 4x Relay Team. South Carolina HC had actually watched him wrestle and knew he had to have him on his OL. The move paid off. Ekwonu is an intelligent strategist in the way he approaches his opponent and devises the way he’ll destroy him on the field of play. Off the field….he’s a guy every team should be lucky to have. Texans can have him at 3.

I think Ekwonu would be my selection at 3, since he’s going to help both the run game and Mills in the pocket.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
Okay…..I just read the best article on Ekwonu yet. The article is available on ESPN.com in the NFL section.

Ekwonu was a high school wrestler and as crazy as it sounds….he ran anchor on the track teams 4x Relay Team. His Carolina HC had actually watched him wrestle and knew he had to have him on his OL. The move paid off. Ekwonu is an intelligent strategist in the way he approaches his opponent and devises the way he’ll destroy him on the field of play. Off the field….he’s a guy every team should be lucky to have. Texans can have him at 3.

I think Ekwonu would be my selection at 3, since he’s going to help both the run game and Mills in the pocket.
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I like the top ten guys in this draft but it's going to come down to DE/edge or CB if we pick at #3.
 
Number19 said:
Like these numbers - to support my position that the draft needs to emphasize the IOL

I have to chirp in once a week, or so. My position is unchanged. Trade down from #3 if we get a solid offer. I'd prefer to trade down from #13, but unless this trade occurs before the draft, can't take the chance this trade doesn't materialize if we get an offer for 3.

My target is still Green, somewhere about 18 to 20. I'd also be targeting Kinnard in the 2nd, but not as an OT. He's a RG. And I'd be targeting Salyer as a fit at OC.

The value of trading down is to further target Skyy Moore or Alec Pierce in the 2nd; and I'd like to take a RB with 3/68. Here I have James Cook as a perfect fit in Pep's offense. I also like D'vonte Price, maybe in the 4th, as a downhill power runner who also has speed. Running Back is a deep position.

If we can squeeze in a defensive player, here or there, I'm good with that.
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I like it if they can trade down and get better than they give in the trade.

The Texans need everything. I wouldn't get too stuck on a position. I love the idea of Ikem/Neal at 3 but would not be opposed if they draft Hamilton/Gardner/Aidan/Thibs or even Stingley at 3.

#13 is where I think the Texans can trade back and get great value while still upgrading the offensive line with Green/Zion or Raimann. Any one of those defensive players at 3 along with one of the three offensive linemen later in round 1 would be a great haul, IMO.

The great debate is at #37 IMO.
 
banned1976 said:
I like it if they can trade down and get better than they give in the trade.

The Texans need everything. I wouldn't get too stuck on a position. I love the idea of Ikem/Neal at 3 but would not be opposed if they draft Hamilton/Gardner/Aidan/Thibs or even Stingley at 3.

#13 is where I think the Texans can trade back and get great value while still upgrading the offensive line with Green/Zion or Raimann. Any one of those defensive players at 3 along with one of the three offensive linemen later in round 1 would be a great haul, IMO.

The great debate is at #37 IMO.
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For me….37 has become the easiest pick. The Texans have committed themselves to being a Power Run team. I want the best back in the draft to be a Texan. There’s no doubt in my mind that Breece Hall is the cream of the crop. If the Texans chance falls at 37, then so be it, b/c I doubt he’s still on the board at 67. A lot is riding on the new offensive philosophy and having the players to make it happen. Ekwonu, Hall, and Smith could certainly get things moving in the right direction.
 
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banned1976 said:
I like it if they can trade down and get better than they give in the trade.

The Texans need everything. I wouldn't get too stuck on a position. I love the idea of Ikem/Neal at 3 but would not be opposed if they draft Hamilton/Gardner/Aidan/Thibs or even Stingley at 3.

#13 is where I think the Texans can trade back and get great value while still upgrading the offensive line with Green/Zion or Raimann. Any one of those defensive players at 3 along with one of the three offensive linemen later in round 1 would be a great haul, IMO.

The great debate is at #37 IMO.
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How would you feel about trading back into the late 1st for Green?
 
banned1976 said:
I like it if they can trade down and get better than they give in the trade.

The Texans need everything. I wouldn't get too stuck on a position. I love the idea of Ikem/Neal at 3 but would not be opposed if they draft Hamilton/Gardner/Aidan/Thibs or even Stingley at 3.

#13 is where I think the Texans can trade back and get great value while still upgrading the offensive line with Green/Zion or Raimann. Any one of those defensive players at 3 along with one of the three offensive linemen later in round 1 would be a great haul, IMO.

The great debate is at #37 IMO.
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I agree that trading back from #13 would have its benefits. If I had my choice of the late round OL, it’d be Zion.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
For me….37 has become the easiest pick. The Texans have committed themselves to being a Power Run team. I want the best back in the draft to be a Texan. There’s no doubt in my mind that Breece Hall is the cream of the crop. If the Texans chance falls at 37, then so be it, b/c I doubt he’s still on the board at 67. A lot is riding on the new offensive philosophy and having the players to make it happen. Ekwonu, Hall, and Smith could certainly get things moving in the right direction.
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Hall might be gone before 37.

Even if he is still there, unless the Texans get real fortunate in a trade there's going to be a greater need than RB that wasn't addressed in round one. On drafttek, their "starter need high" is: CB, Edge and WR. I think they could throw OL in there as well. They have RB as a "starter need medium". I agree with that. I believe there are four positions that are a greater need than RB. In what order they are addressed is not of importance to me.

Theoretically lets say the Texans draft OL and WR in round 1. That leaves Edge and CB. Or they draft OL and CB. That leaves WR and Edge. Edge and OL...leaves WR and CB...

I feel like, and I could be wrong after the second round the dip in talent at OL, Edge, CB and WR is quite steep. And it's easier to find a productive running back later in the draft. Debatable, I know. There are some running backs I like almost as much as Hall that can be drafted in round 4 or 5.
 
banned1976 said:
Hall might be gone before 37.

Even if he is still there, unless the Texans get real fortunate in a trade there's going to be a greater need than RB that wasn't addressed in round one. On drafttek, their "starter need high" is: CB, Edge and WR. I think they could throw OL in there as well. They have RB as a "starter need medium". I agree with that. I believe there are four positions that are a greater need than RB. In what order they are addressed is not of importance to me.

Theoretically lets say the Texans draft OL and WR in round 1. That leaves Edge and CB. Or they draft OL and CB. That leaves WR and Edge. Edge and OL...leaves WR and CB...

I feel like, and I could be wrong after the second round the dip in talent at OL, Edge, CB and WR is quite steep. And it's easier to find a productive running back later in the draft. Debatable, I know. There are some running backs I like almost as much as Hall that can be drafted in round 4 or 5.
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Agreed, I would also add a run stuffing DT to this list.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
For me….37 has become the easiest pick. The Texans have committed themselves to being a Power Run team. I want the best back in the draft to be a Texan. There’s no doubt in my mind that Breece Hall is the cream of the crop. If the Texans chance falls at 37, then so be it, b/c I doubt he’s still on the board at 67. A lot is riding on the new offensive philosophy and having the players to make it happen. Ekwonu, Hall, and Smith could certainly get things moving in the right direction.
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Only two or three RB's are projected to go in the 2nd round. I like the value of a WR at #37 and waiting to the 3rd round for a RB.
 
TexansFan15 said:
I am not. Would Zion be a good fit for our blocking scheme?
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Probably.

Today, I just received my go to draft profiles. An earlier assessment was that Johnson was a better fit in an outside zone scheme rather than a power scheme. Today's profile has him with a draft grade of 90, equal to Green; and that he would fit well in any blocking scheme. Says he tested better at the Combine than expected and gives him a Blue Chip evaluation.
 
Top 3 needs on team imo:

1) Outside CB
2) Interior OL
3) Edge rusher

I suspect the Texans will look to address these items of need within the first three rounds. Of course there are plenty of other areas of need and highly talented players in the upcoming draft ready to fill those spots on the roster.

Whether the top three needs I suggest are addressed in the first three picks remains to be seen. But with seven picks in the top 107 there is plenty of ammo to maneuver for Caserio to “get his guys”.
 
TheRealJoker said:
Top 3 needs on team imo:

1) Outside CB
2) Interior OL
3) Edge rusher

I suspect the Texans will look to address these items of need within the first three rounds. Of course there are plenty of other areas of need and highly talented players in the upcoming draft ready to fill those spots on the roster.

Whether the top three needs I suggest are addressed in the first three picks remains to be seen. But with seven picks in the top 107 there is plenty of ammo to maneuver for Caserio to “get his guys”.
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I will go with
1 Outside CB
2 Interior OL
3 A Edge Rusher
3 B Running Back
 
OptimisticTexan said:
For me….37 has become the easiest pick. The Texans have committed themselves to being a Power Run team. I want the best back in the draft to be a Texan. There’s no doubt in my mind that Breece Hall is the cream of the crop. If the Texans chance falls at 37, then so be it, b/c I doubt he’s still on the board at 67. A lot is riding on the new offensive philosophy and having the players to make it happen. Ekwonu, Hall, and Smith could certainly get things moving in the right direction.
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What is power run scheme? Does that mean isolation and pulling? G-power? If you're trying to marry up a rb as well as the ol to fit the scheme, you give the rb coach his pick that fits. No matter who the pundits think fits.
 
TheRealJoker said:
Top 3 needs on team imo:

1) Outside CB
2) Interior OL
3) Edge rusher

I suspect the Texans will look to address these items of need within the first three rounds. Of course there are plenty of other areas of need and highly talented players in the upcoming draft ready to fill those spots on the roster.

Whether the top three needs I suggest are addressed in the first three picks remains to be seen. But with seven picks in the top 107 there is plenty of ammo to maneuver for Caserio to “get his guys”.
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The team is really shallow at IOL, Safety, RB, and at DT.
 
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