In the words of the Mandalorian, "This is the way". I really hope you are right. This nonsense about having a GM centric organization where the GM is hiring assistant coaches, creating culture and the HC is a neutered puppet is nuts. I really hope this is a shift back to a collaborative process between the GM and HC.
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Head Coach Candidate (Lovie Smith Hired) 2/7/22
- Thread starter TexansFan15
- Start date
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Is it me or does it appear that Caserio is shelving the Patriots South image? Pep is going to be ushering in a new offensive scheme and Lovie’s defense is Lovie’s defense. I’d like to say that it’s awesome but we’ll have to wait and see how the new offense plays out. Maybe Caserio is trying to become his own leader and wants to establish his own path in the NFL….not Belichick’s.
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Mangler
Toro de España
Lovie Smith is a no brainer hire. Especially having Pep run the offense. They’re both experienced coaches so all Caserio has to do is go out and target the right FAs, draft the right guys and this thing can finally start trending upwards. I think Caserio is the right guy at GM. Damn near every pick was a hit and it was only his first draft, AND did it with ZERO 1st or 2nd round picks.
Tell me again how the rebuild was hurt?
Is it Caserio? Or is it just not possible to re-create the Patriots organization? Here or anywhere else.
Caserio needs to concentrate on his job. Bringing in good players. Getting the salary cap back on track. That alone is a big job. One he has yet to prove that he can handle.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
That’s what year two will be about…..moving forward. What he inherited in year one was a deep…deep shitehole. Some may not like how he went about emptying the shite from that hole but it’s his plan and we’ll have to wait and see how those moves affect season two.
Texian
Hall of Fame
The Rebuild has been cancelled due to the lack of know how.
We hope. But nothing so far leads us to believe that is the path we’re taking, except maybe the happy accident that prevented Nick from hiring his HC of choice.
Yep. And I would not be surprised if former Patriots employees were skeptical of a clueless owner after working for one of the best, as well as they already knew McNair's favorite executive is an unqualified wannabe cult leader that loves power.
It was a bit strange that the list was so short, and they ended up promoting someone that was already in the building that, if we're honest, was probably closer to retirement than was ever expecting another shot at a HC gig.
And you're right about Caserio needing to focus on the primary job of a GM. Lovie is a capable coach, but he's not a miracle worker.
What do you have against hiring Gannon?
I think it's complete utter BS that Cal hires a GM and pays him 6 mil per yr to have full control over the football opps. Then when Caserio says this is the guy I want to hire, Cal steps in and says nope, we're going to hire this guy instead. I used to hate working for this type of mgmt and you cant win with this type of mgmt unless you get really lucky. (I dont see the Lovie hire as a this is the guy that's going to bring a Lombardi to Kirby type of hire) This is so much in the what Bob McNair would've done category that it's not even funny. (Taking the safest route possible) Bottom line is Cal lied and nothing has changed down on Kirby except the guy making the draft picks. The McNair's are the problem and always have been the problem. They will continue to be the problem until they sell the cash cow. I've been saying this since 2010.
Nothing. I don’t know the man. But until Josh McCown accepts a low level coaching position (preferably with the Texans) I’m going to believe he was top choice. Otherwise we shouldn’t have been interviewed three times.
I understand from what you heard this is the way you think it went down.
But there are a dozen different ways the scenario you heard could have transpired without Cal acting contrary to the way we know he acts.
It was probably a more collaborative decision than Cal overruling Caserio.
So McCown wasn't the top choice because he wasn't hired. Do you think McCown was Caserio's pick and Cal told him no? I dont believe this.
Cal overruling the guy he hired to run the football opps is what my problem with this situation is and proof nothing has changed down on Kirby. For God's sake Cal, you hired Caserio to do a job. Let him do his freaking job. If he succeeds he succeeds, if he fails he fails but atleast you've got football people making football decisions.
I started off thinking McCown was never considered for the HC job even though he “interviewed” any more than Lovie was a HC candidate last season when he interviewed. He was actually interviewed to be DC. So I thought McCown was interviewed for QB coach, maybe OC.
& I believe he was “all in” on that plan.
Well, now that he is not OC or QB coach I have to believe he was “all in” on being HC. So that must have been the discussion he had with Caserio.
& whether he was 1st choice or 3rd, something is wrong with Caserio’s process.
Happy accident that none of his “finalist” got the job.
Yes there is something wrong with Caserio's process. He hasn't been allowed to hire the HC he wanted to hire. That's what's wrong with the process.
Texian
Hall of Fame
You mean Culley wasn't the guy he wanted? I mean that was a 100% Caserio hire.
If he said he wanted to hire Flores & McNair said no, would you be OK with that?
If he wanted to hire McCown & McNair said no, would you be OK with that?
What if he wanted to hire Urban Meyer, thinking he could control him?
Like I said earlier, we both know McNair has to sign off on whoever Caserio picked. Just like he had to sign off on hiring Culley to a 5 year contract & to fire Culley with less than 25% of that contract being fulfilled.
Remember the old saying, fool me once, shame on you.
Cal would have probably gave Nick more rope if he wasn't playing around with placeholder coaches.
& like I said, we don't know Gannon was Nick's only choice, or if he settled on Gannon because the Flores lawsuit cut McCown out of the picture. Remember, Flores, McCown, & Gannon were all finalists.
That lawsuit had some effect.
If I had my way, Caserio would have started all over again. Lombardi is still out there, Demeco is still out there, Raheem Morris is still out there, Tod Bowles, Byron Leftwich, Mike Kafka are all still out there.
Yes, I would've been OK with whoever Caserio would've chosen to be his HC. Why? Because if Caserio's guy would've failed then that failure would've been totally on Caserio's head and he would've had to answer for that mistake. I certainly would've wanted Caserio making the HC hire over Cal making the HC hire.
You better believe the Flores lawsuit had an effect on who got hired. After the troubles Flores had getting along with Greir I would've never interviewed Flores. Caserio chose differently and the Texans org is going to have to pay the price for that decision.
Totally agree with the last paragraph.
Culley was supposed to be a placeholder and you know nobody hires a 65 yr old guy as a long term answer as the HC. Now Cal has given us another 63 yr old guy as HC, rather than Gannon who was the guy Caserio wanted.
Cal's a lying idiot who's way out of his depth.
Dejaview
All Pro
I’ve never seen anywhere from the Texans organization that they settled on any “finalists” for the HC position. NC certainly has never said it as far as I know. Everything I’ve read is from that never ending rumor mill. the only thing I’ve read from NC is that they have interviewed several coaches, NFL executives and players. Lovie has stated that, as Assistant HC, he talked with NC and Cal. It just could be that at the end of the day they decided on Lovie and with Pep promoted vs moving on they were much further along in their remake. Lovie has stated that it is a huge advantage to have so much carryover from last year. It just might be all there is to it.
He's lucky to still have a job. Fired Culley after 1 year & come back with another superficial interview process... ridiculous
Like you said, agree to disagree. No way I'll believe Cal came up with the most sane decision (other than start over) that could be made.
My biggest problem here is why did he settle on Gannon? There’s not a good answer. Not when McCown & Flores were the other finalists.
You focus on unofficial reports that Nick wanted one guy & Cal wanted the guy they hire.
But you gloss over the process that got you to Gannon.
I could understand if we were talking about O'Connell who will be a HC in 2022. But another guy no one else picked.
Happy accident
I'm hoping this is what happened.
I'd feel much better about Caserio if it was.
You missed it. It's out there
Dejaview
All Pro
Everywhere I’ve seen the word “finalist” it wasn’t coming from NC so maybe I missed it, but I have searched. it Doesn’t necessarily follow from a candidate having three interviews that they are a finalist. Their supposed finalists came from both sides of the ball, 2 D and 1 O. They may be showing they were leaning D. With what they knew about Lovie they easily could have been scrubbing him with those three to have him properly vetted.
The Texans tweeted it
Dejaview
All Pro
Who are the “Texans”?
I've got no problems with the Culley hire. He was always meant to be a short term hire and I really dont understand why you do.
You cant believe Cal would settle on keeping a guy already in the building and is a minority hire so that helps keep some of the heat off of the org when they were going to get sued? From a business perspective I can certainly see this happening. In fact it's a good business move.
You would have to ask Caserio why he settled on Gannon, like I said, he wouldn't have been my 1st choice. But if Caserio is going to be running football opps he should get to pick his guy. Now with Cal doing what his daddy did, you can expect more of the same old same old, with hopefully better personnel decisions being made.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Most definitely, but like I mentioned before Cal had to step in to make a call. Something all owners will do if a decision can’t be made by his key guys. That should some folks around here a little growth. Why because we all seen how weak Cal was throughout O’Brien tenure here. He also took a back seat and hushed the bleep up when Caserio stepped into the building. Hopefully he put the pastor in check as well.
My thing is this was a great higher mainly because, we needed a experienced coach who has seen it all. He also experienced some success in the NFL. Players love working for him and he knows how to get the best out of them. We all know we’re starting from ground zero. Therefore, it would’ve been pretty painful to watch an inexperienced head coach try to build for the future. Example: the Houston Rockets. They have a inexperienced HC who is having a very hard time coaching up these young players. They have been blown out at least 75% of the games they have lost. Now go look at the Spurs. Even though they’re not all that good, the very experienced HC actually have them young men competing. You can actually see them growing together and possibly competing for a playoffs seed next year. Disclaimer: no way am I saying Lovie is on Pop level. Pop is a HOFer when it’s all said and done. He’s won a quite a few championships.
I’m just saying we might have a better chance at building a little more quickly versus with a very inexperienced HC.
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I believe you. But I see it as evidence of ineptitude. 5 years guaranteed, whether the McNairs paid $16M or $22M, they did so at Caserio's recommendation.
If you tell me you would have done the same thing in McNair's situation, I'm out of this conversation citing the proverb about the man who argues with id10ts.
Even if that were the case, how is that different than not hiring the guy you want because he's suing the NFL, or because he's too white with no experience? I'm sure you can convince yourself that the guy you wanted all along just happened to not be those two... awful convenient & I'll never believe it.
Your 1st choice would have been McCown or Flores? If not, then it's irrelevant to the discussion right now.
None of the three would have been anyone's 1st choice, except Flores before the lawsuit, & that's the point.
Chances are the whole thing was some kind of camouflage, misdirection, smartest man in the room BS that we didn't want any part of... happy accident.
Cal would have told him to be the HC & GM for this season & try again next season. I mean based on how he handled similar situations in the past.
I don't think Nick settled on Gannon for proper football reasons. If anything Cal was probably telling him if he's not 100% on board, don't do it. Don't do it for the wrong reasons.
Nick's 2nd option (the three finalists being option 1) was Lovie. Cal liked that option.
Nick came around.
michaelm
vox nihili
As far as I know the team never tweeted any finalists.
They tweeted that they had completed interviewing three candidates.
No indication of whether there would be other candidates, or if the three they interviewed were finalists in any way.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Who cares who called who finalists, favorites, leaders in the clubhouse, whatever? It doesn't change that those were the only 3 interviewed more than once. I would say advantage those 3. Doesn't mean somebody can't come in and knock your socks off with 1 interview, but those were the 3, and nobody else was reported coming in.
Flores and McCown weren't hired because of the lawsuit. Flores, because he's the one suing, and McCown, because he's the inexperience white guy which would have played right into the lawsuit, and made them look really, really bad. I mean, even worse than hiring a guy with zero coaching experience would have looked.
I don't know why Gannon wasn't hired, but if it's because he's white and the Texans thought they'd take some blowback from it, then that's some spineless bullshit.
So the Texans, backing themselves into a corner only the Texans could do, did about the only thing they could do, and that's beg ($$$) Lovie to be HC.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
A football organization who's learning curve is peeing on the electric fence and then not remembering the mistakes.
Agreed. If they had three other guys on their "finalists" list & they chose one of four not including Flores or McCown, then I could believe it was a football decision.
But since there's only 3, including Flores & McCown, there's no way I'm going to believe it was a football decision & had nothing to do with the lawsuit
Texansballer74
The Marine
They have enough backlash as it is on their plates.
I'm pretty sure that Caserio didn't negotiate Culley's contract. Most likely Cal did that. His dad always did that.
I told you what I believe, you can choose to disagree with me if you wish.
Gannon was Caserio's 1st choice and he wasn't allowed to hire the guy he wanted to hire. So bottom line is he's not truly running football opps. Cal learned how to do this maneuver from his dad. This isn't going to turnout well, just like it didn't turnout well for his dad.
Where we disagree is Cal told Caserio who he was going to hire and Caserio had 30 mil reasons to agree, whether he agreed or not. Bottom line is Lovie's a Cal call and 2-3 yrs from now when Lovie's gone Caserio will be taking the heat for Calhoun's incompetence. This is another McNair tradition, paying others well to take the heat for the McNair's incompetence.
Bottom line is, unless this team gets extremely lucky they will never win anything with the current power structure. Just as Calhoun's dad never won anything before him.
It wasn't a football decision, it was a business decision. (Flores)
I like the Lovie hire.
That's not my point,
My point is, if you're going to hire a guy to run your football opps, then let him run the football opps. That obviously didn't happen in this case and is proof IMHO that nothing has really changed down on Kirby. I guess the thing that's got me p!ssed off is Calhoun hired Lovie right after I renewed my season tickets. I'm the fool for thinking things were changing and you know what they say about a fool and his money?
Texansballer74
The Marine
And my point was he was letting him run the operation until a decision couldn’t be made.
Then what are we arguing? That Cal didn't let his football guy make a decision that wasn't a football decision?
What version of "placeholder, not expecting to win" plan are we on now?
Originally you were saying Culley was Bo Porter for the next three years & the cap & talent was going to be irrelevant. Then Culley was going to get fired & Caserio is going to hire the guy he really wanted... was Gannon that guy?
That's why I keep calling it a happy accident.
Caserio is going to have to get lucky too... his "football decisions" aren't looking good so far. How long you going to keep making excuses for him?
He made a decision,
Cal just went against his decision.
Caserio just found out the hard way what Texans ownership is all about. They're you have final say so, until you dont kind of ownership and they will never win a championship with this type of ownership.
What is say Caserio wants to draft say Sam Williams in the 3rd rd in this draft? He's very talented but had a DV issue like 3 yrs ago, do you think the McNair's will let Caserio draft Williams? I dont, nothing has changed down on Kirby.
No.
At least until they make that 1st pick, I'd rather circle this issue & repeat myself rather than get involved in the Watson crap.
I'd rather wait until it happens, then argue about it.
But this here, if Caserio was set on hiring any of the three finalists, I'd just as soon fire him now. Two years in a row he's shown us he's in over his head if that's how he goes about filling his HC position.
He's the freak'n Culley of GMs.
But if he presented the Lovie idea to McNair, there might be hope for him.
I'd have preferred he scrapped the 3 finalists all together & interviewed the qualified candidates that were passed on. He could have put Gannon in that group if he wanted.
But those are the two choices.
Yes that Calhoun overruled is football guys decisions for non football reasons. You cant win making these types of decisions.
Culley was a placeholder, but Culley wasn't willing to do what Caserio wanted him to do. Fire Kelly. do you think a 65 yr old Culley or a 63 yr old Lovie is Caserio's choice to be the long term HC? I do believe if Gannon was hired then Caserio's clock would've started.
What football decisions has Caserio made in regards to the HC position. He had a reason for choosing Culley and wasn't allowed a decision when it came to hiring Lovie. So I dont think Caserio's clock has even started yet.
So you think he should be fired because you wouldn't have liked the Gannon hire? SMDH, dont even give a new HC a chance before you to even see what he could be as a HC.
Once the lawsuit dropped, it wasn't a football decision. Not one of those three could be hired without it being a result of the lawsuit.
The smart thing to do, imo, would be to broaden the search. Real qualified candidates. Three or four. Then he could hire Gannon if he wanted.
Caserio shouldn't be thinking about long term. He's needs a coach that can turn this thing around. Right now you've got a team that thinks 5 wins would be success.
& fired him a year later. He obviously picked the wrong guy. That's the definition of picking the wrong guy.
Agree to disagree. But the process from firing Culley to hiring Lovie was a joke when two of the three became unjustifiable making the last no choice at all.
Agree to disagree. Clock started when he got on that jet.
I think he should be fired because his process got him Culley & two of three really bad candidates. Chances are the third candidate is just as bad
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
You mean the same way we’ve moved on from Kubiak, Smith and whoever else from years past that are constantly being brought up around here?
Yes, Lovie has been hired. Unfortunately though, the guys who are in charge of bringing in players, are the same who run the process of hiring a coach. So one might say the process is a problem, it’s current, so it’s at least somewhat worthy of all the bandwidth.
But hey, why was DeAndre really sent packing? That ought to be worth 8 or 10 more pages of posts.
Or Cal could've just let the guy he hired to run his football opps run the football opps.
The clock will start after the 2023 draft. It was always going to start after the 2023 draft. You do realize they're in the beginning stages of a rebuild down on Kirby?
Do you actually believe this nonsense? Caserio could have fired Kelly himself. And if Culley didn't like it, he could've quit. And saved the McNairs $17 million.
He did. Agree to disagree
New GM, New HC, New QB all in 2021... clock is running. We're already on HC #2 & sounds like Cal is getting impatient.
Texansballer74
The Marine
We the fans thinks winning five games will be a success for this team. I’m pretty sure the team will won’t to win more than that. As you can see or heard Lovie using the Bengals as an example.