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Brian Flores lawsuit, etc.

Speedy said:
I don’t think you need to do anything like that. In fact, I don’t think anything needs to be done at all. The NFL already has the most parity of any sports league. Hell, the Bengals went from 2 wins to 4 to the Super Bowl in a 3 year span. The 49ers went from 4 wins to a Super Bowl here recently.

Teams just have to get better at evaluating talent, better at coaching that talent, and hope they get lucky at the same time. I mean it’s yet to be seen if the Jags hit on Lawrence. Mayfield, Winston and Bradford certainly didn’t work out, and it appears the Bengals lucked out and have hit a HR with Burrow.

Tanking doesn’t guarantee you anything. No need to punish teams, most of the time they punish themselves.
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I agree with 99% of what you say. Evaluating talent, coaching talent and luck play a huge role in the success of any franchise. There have been a many of QB drafted that had the talent and failed due to coaching or luck. And QBs that succeed due to coaching and talent.

Cincinnati wouldn’t be as good today if Burrow hadn’t had that knee injury and been out most of the season so they could draft Chase. That’s bad luck turning great.

My point was trying to penalize the owner and not the team.

However - I concede you aren’t going to get much done one way or the other. Goodell works for the owners. The owners control the league and Goodell. The NFL labor union is weaker than its counterparts in the NBA and MLB IMHO.

Look at how the NFL, Goodell, and Snyder are trying to cover up all the sexual abuse/misconduct allegations.
 
As NFL Teams Hire & Interview Black Coaches, Strength of Flores Lawsuit Could Be Affected
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Amy Dash |
Feb 6, 2022
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After reading this piece, I have to question if many of the examples of black coaches would have received their promotions had knowledge of Flores' lawsuit was not in play. My source has been adamant that Mulugeta had plans for quite a long time for such a lawsuit......just waiting for the "right" time. It evidently was not as great a surprise/secret as is made out to be.
 
I think a better defense would be to present all the non-minority coaches that got those same sham interviews

A lot of these guys hire their friends. The whole interview process is a sham, much of the time
 
thunderkyss said:
You’re right.

when teams learn that #1 pick isn’t as valuable to their careers as winning 6 games they’ll stop tanking.

your team is heading in the wrong direction if you’re aiming at the #1 pick
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Depends on who the #1 pick is.

Manning/Burrow etc... it's worth it.
 
Texian said:
Let's say the NFL mandates that 50% of administration and coaching jobs go to minorities and people of color. Then would it be equally as fair to mandate that 50% of the players be white?
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F1 has had a really difficult discussion recently, only 1 black F1 driver to have actually raced in the sport, very few minorities make up the engineering or admin departments of these teams.

The problem is not just whether the team is willing to hire non-white people. It is that because people of different backgrounds don’t see people who look like them doing those jobs, they don’t see it as something to aspire to become.

What percentage of black players are spending their career picking up coaching methods to become a coach in the future?

It becomes a very long process to make that change, especially in the US where it seems that there is still a level of societal segregation.
 
thunderkyss said:
Too many non #1 overall picks have won more Super Bowls than Manning & Burrows
Brady/Roethlisberger
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Well sure, there are over 250 picks made year after year after year that are not number 1 overall. Not sure how many QBs, but I'm gonna assume quite a few.

There've been 86 number one overall picks, ever. Grand total of 26 of them QBs.

I think there are something like 15+ Super Bowls won by number one overall QBs. More than half a dozen SB MVPs among them. And a handful more who've made it, including this years' two where one of them will the join SB Winner's list.

If you took a more mathematically even comparison of QBs picked one overall versus any other singular pick throughout history - such as all 19th picks in the 2nd round for example - I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume number one overall has the best track record.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Well sure, there are over 250 picks made year after year after year that are not number 1 overall. Not sure how many QBs, but I'm gonna assume quite a few.

There've been 86 number one overall picks, ever. Grand total of 26 of them QBs.

I think there are something like 15+ Super Bowls won by number one overall QBs. More than half a dozen SB MVPs among them. And a handful more who've made it, including this years' two where one of them will the join SB Winner's list.

If you took a more mathematically even comparison of QBs picked one overall versus any other singular pick throughout history - such as all 19th picks in the 2nd round for example - I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume number one overall has the best track record.
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Bradshaw (4-0), Plunkett (2-0), Elway (2-3), Aikman (3-0), Peyton (2-2), Eli (2-0), Newton (0-1), and Goff (0-1) are the #1 QBs to start in a SB. 15-7 record. That’s 21 of 55 SBs (38%). 8 out of 24 drafted #1 in the SB era (33%). Burrow and Stafford will make it 10 of 25 (40%).
 
The last three head coaches for the Texans have been black: Romeo, Culley, and Lovie. Flores said we gave him an good interview.

Rick Smith is black and was the GM.

You can call the Texans a lot of things but you can’t say they don’t give minorities a fair chance and don’t have a diverse work culture.
 
steelbtexan said:
The reason it appears this way is Culley wasn't willing to take the hickey for the team for 2-3 yrs. Plus he really struggled with the PR side of the HC position. Lovie wont have these issues.

McDaniels in Miami and Lovie, 2 minority hires since the Flores crap. Not shocked.
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I wonder how McDaniels classify in normal circumstances. I wonder if at Yale he classified as AA because he doesn't look like he has a drop. He looks like MJ kids
 
leebigeztx said:
I wonder how McDaniels classify in normal circumstances. I wonder if at Yale he classified as AA because he doesn't look like he has a drop. He looks like MJ kids
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So do you have to look a certain way to classify.

If so how would you classify Halle Berry, or does this just apply to people who want job preferences that they look/act a certain way?
 
steelbtexan said:
So do you have to look a certain way to classify.

If so how would you classify Halle Berry, or does this just apply to people who want job preferences that they look/act a certain way?
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I dont want to get my post removed, but Halle Berry clearly identify as AA and she has the skin complextion to match. I never mentioned act, but we've seen people like Rachel try to pass off as African American but didn't have a once down the line. I had a white classmate go to hbcu, but he wasn't there claiming he was black, he liked the Morehouse and its tradition
 
leebigeztx said:
I dont want to get my post removed, but Halle Berry clearly identify as AA and she has the skin complextion to match. I never mentioned act, but we've seen people like Rachel try to pass off as African American but didn't have a once down the line. I had a white classmate go to hbcu, but he wasn't there claiming he was black, he liked the Morehouse and its tradition
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Obviously McDaniels father was AA, so I dont see what your issue is.

The 49ers are going to get a 3rd rd comp pick for this hire in the 2023 draft.

My question is, are the Texans going to get a 2023 comp pick for hiring Lovie? If so that could be used to move up in the draft this yr. (Not what I would do, just throwing out possibilities.
 
welsh texan said:
I actually think there is something fishy about the timing of it all.

I’m thinking they were finding a way to justify McCown, they saw the feedback they were getting in combination with the Flores lawsuit alleging racism and the 2 went together and this was their solution.

I’d have preferred O’Connell, I’d have preferred McDaniels if we are going to be tied to NE’s O.

I hope Lovie works out though.
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No way Lovie would be a HC without Flores' lawsuit, but it did save us from a McCown show.

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leebigeztx said:
I dont want to get my post removed, but Halle Berry clearly identify as AA and she has the skin complextion to match. I never mentioned act, but we've seen people like Rachel try to pass off as African American but didn't have a once down the line. I had a white classmate go to hbcu, but he wasn't there claiming he was black, he liked the Morehouse and its tradition
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If you are familiar with the Creole culture of Louisiana people who are 1/4, or 1/8 black and look very white called themselves black.

steelbtexan said:
Obviously McDaniels father was AA, so I dont see what your issue is.

The 49ers are going to get a 3rd rd comp pick for this hire in the 2023 draft.

My question is, are the Texans going to get a 2023 comp pick for hiring Lovie? If so that could be used to move up in the draft this yr. (Not what I would do, just throwing out possibilities.
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The team losing the coach or executive gets the pick. By definition the Texans didn't lose Lovie smith just promoted him.
 
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ArlingtonTexan said:
If you are familiar with the Creole culture of Louisiana people who are 1/4, or 1/8 black and look very white called themselves black.



The team losing the coach or executive gets the pick. By definition the Texans didn't lose Lovie smith just promoted him.
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Very familiar, have family, but McDaniels isn't creole based on his name for the most part. I've been around the swamp for a while and seen and known some very,very light complexed people who were black. I mean Lolo Jones fits that description, but you can tell even with her. Anyway, he didn't even get an interview either.
 
The Saints have hired Dennis Allen As HC. That makes Lovie the only true black HC chosen in this cycle.............unless you consider Mike McDaniel with a black father as at least a minority. The Texans are now being laughed at for being "forced" into their choice.
 
TheRealJoker said:
Maybe he should wait until all the jobs have been taken to prove he’s being discriminated against before filing his lawsuit…
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Wanna hear a spoiler with how Flores interviews went?

Team owner looking for a HC calls Dolphins owner

"Hows working with Flores?"

"He's a good coach, but kinda hard to work with"

"Is it worth putting him in charge of your multi million dollar investment?"

"Well not for me"

End of call. Then Rooney rule Flores as a competent black HC interview.

Exactly what critics of the Rooney rule have been saying since it's inauguration, but have been called racist for being against the procedure.

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CloakNNNdagger said:
The Saints have hired Dennis Allen As HC. That makes Lovie the only true black HC chosen in this cycle.............unless you consider Mike McDaniel with a black father as at least a minority. The Texans are now being laughed at for being "forced" into their choice.
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So this will two years in a row the Texans with the only Black coach hire. Historically, until the last maybe ten years, a black father meant you were black not bi or multi racial. Definition has changed.
 
FatSeagal said:
Wanna hear a spoiler with how Flores interviews went?

Team owner looking for a HC calls Dolphins owner

"Hows working with Flores?"

"He's a good coach, but kinda hard to work with"

"Is it worth putting him in charge of your multi million dollar investment?"

"Well not for me"

End of call. Then Rooney rule Flores as a competent black HC interview.

Exactly what critics of the Rooney rule have been saying since it's inauguration, but have been called racist for being against the procedure.

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Sounds like the same conversation every perspective employer has about a candidate known for being “difficult to work with”.

Its not the color of his skin causing him to be a poor people person. Not every a hole gets gifted a HC job for a team owned by the Mcnairs like OB did.

I didn’t see OB get a HC job either this hiring cycle. I wonder why?
 
Toro Bravo said:
Duh!!!! Imagine that, a company not hiring the person who is suing them. WTF did you expect? You must be stupid to think that action would not have an impact on your employment in the NFL. Just "F"ing STUPID!
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I think he ran out of teams he was willing to accept and decided to go the burn bridges route.

I mean let's ignore the lawsuit and imagine if the Texans went and hired a coach that was just airing dirty laundry the last week and a half haha.

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Yup I want nothing to do with Flores and his drama queen act. Poor put upon millionaire. He has written his own obit Kapernick style.

I want the best HC possible and Lovie ain’t it. He is a nice guy but he’s Culley V2. Basically we went from a 76 Pinto on blocks to a 76 pinto with new tires and a paint job. It’s still a hunk of junk, just a hunk of junk rolling on new treads.

oh sure, they will try to put lipstick on this hog and roll him out like he is Ms America.

demand better fans! I can’t believe how many of you cave to this BS! They keep lowering the bar on Kirby and some of you have broken backs from doing the limbo. It’s freaking ridiculous what the fans here accept.
 
Speedy said:
The Texans are being laughed at for a lot of things IMO. 2 years in a row they’ve had a clusterfuck of a HC search. I mean, Caserio finally gets his shot out from under the umbrella of Belichick, and this is how it starts? 2 HCs in less than 400 days? 2 HC hires that nobody had on their radars? Interviewing 2 others for HC that nobody had on their radars? This is the guy we nearly got tampering charges thrown at us for and have been trying to get for 3 years?

Other than standing firm with not giving Watson away for nothing, I can’t think of one good thing Caserio has done since he’s been here. And why is he here to begin with? Yeah, that dude. AJ’s words still stand firm, not one good thing has happened since he entered the building.
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I mean, and admit the is cynical as f@+), but he's filling our coaching staff (durring a rebuild where we aren't expected to win) with a bunch Rooney Rule nominees.

This could be some 4D chess we are witnessing.

Maybe in the future bad teams will load up on black coaching talent for future 3rd round picks.

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steelbtexan said:
Obviously McDaniels father was AA, so I dont see what your issue is.

The 49ers are going to get a 3rd rd comp pick for this hire in the 2023 draft.

My question is, are the Texans going to get a 2023 comp pick for hiring Lovie? If so that could be used to move up in the draft this yr. (Not what I would do, just throwing out possibilities.
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but I was looking this rule up and it appeared (to me) that the team losing a AA (did this rule apply to all non-white minorities? I noticed they are using the term “minority”) coach or executive that they developed to another team which hired him/her in the same capacity, would be awarded RD3 COMP Pick in 2 consecutive drafts. If they lost both (Coach / Executive) within the same season, they would be awarded a RD3 COMP Pick in 3 consecutive drafts.
 
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steelbtexan said:
Obviously McDaniels father was AA, so I dont see what your issue is.

The 49ers are going to get a 3rd rd comp pick for this hire in the 2023 draft.

My question is, are the Texans going to get a 2023 comp pick for hiring Lovie? If so that could be used to move up in the draft this yr. (Not what I would do, just throwing out possibilities.
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Elevation within the same team does not result in comp pick.
 
“It’s great to have another African American coach. There’s something that needs to be done with that process, because you don’t see enough African American coaches when it’s a majority of African American players.” -Andre Johnson

He’s a Texans great who I respect as a player, but Jesus freakin Christ! This is such a dumb effin logic and it’s pretty much racist itself.
 
I know I'm late to this conversation, however this is what makes no sense to me. First of all, I firmly believe that NFL owners only care about one color and that's green. They also care about their egos. If they are so anti-black in their hiring practices why are most of the players that they employ black players? Why are there hardly any white guys employed playing defensive back? I will tell you why, because most want to win (green and ego) and they are going with the best players at each position regardless of color. Why would they not do the same with the coaching staff? To me that makes no sense.
 
Hookem Horns said:
I know I'm late to this conversation, however this is what makes no sense to me. First of all, I firmly believe that NFL owners only care about one color and that's green. They also care about their egos. If they are so anti-black in their hiring practices why are most of the players that they employ black players? Why are there hardly any white guys employed playing defensive back? I will tell you why, because most want to win (green and ego) and they are going with the best players at each position regardless of color. Why would they not do the same with the coaching staff? To me that makes no sense.
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Yes & no. There was a time when there weren't any black players. Took a while, but that changed. There was a time when there weren't any black QBs. Took a while, but that changed. There was a time when there weren't any black coaches. Took a while, but that changed. There was a time when there weren't any black HCs, GMs... took a while, but that changed.

The league has been trying to change this black HC thing & it's taking a while. No one I know likes the Rooney rule. For different reasons, sure, but bottom line, everyone agrees it doesn't work. I think, or at least that's how I choose to look at Flores' lawsuit. Something's broke, needs to be fixed. I think we all agree on that.

I don't particularly believe the HC problem is because of racism. & I don't think "fixing" the Rooney rule is going to fix "racism."

& I'm sure it's completely coincidental that the first HC fired by the Houston Texans after one year.... when 6 years seems to have been the standard, just happens to be black. Looks as bad as their frontrunner who had no coaching experience.

Again, I don't think it's racist. But when you've got a bunch of things that is easy for people to string together, it's easy to make the case.
 
Dejaview said:
And if Flores thinks he didnt get the Texans job because he is black then he needs to understand what equality really means….it means you may not be the best guy for the job.
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Overall, good post. I respect your opinion. I’m not claiming to know.

But as far as this part goes, Flores never said he didn’t get the job because the Texans were racist. He’s saying the Texans fired Culley because they are racist. He’s saying the Giants only interviewed him because they are racist.
 
thunderkyss said:
Overall, good post. I respect your opinion. I’m not claiming to know.

But as far as this part goes, Flores never said he didn’t get the job because the Texans were racist. He’s saying the Texans fired Culley because they are racist. He’s saying the Giants only interviewed him because they are racist.
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Sounding to me like Flores is the racist.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think a better defense would be to present all the non-minority coaches that got those same sham interviews
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Can you point out the sham interviews of non-minority coaches?
TexansBull said:
You can call the Texans a lot of things
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And I will. Racist just won't be one of them.
Hookem Horns said:
Why are there hardly any white guys employed playing defensive back? I will tell you why, because most want to win (green and ego) and they are going with the best players at each position regardless of color. Why would they not do the same with the coaching staff? To me that makes no sense.
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Only in rare instances are owners selecting players. But, they are always involved in selecting coaches and GMs. How would you explain so few black head coaches if the decision was always based upon who impacts winning the most?
 
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Lucky said:
How would you explain so few black head coaches if the decision was always based upon who impacts winning the most?
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I guess the better question is which black coach(s) out there are better than the current lot of white head coaches? Who's getting passed up for his race when he would be better than any of the current white head coaches? BTW, I am not saying I disagree with you because I don't know, however I find it hard to believe that some owner would rather lose with a white guy than win with a black guy.

If there's racism, I think the real issue might be that they have the misperception that black guys aren't as capable of white guys to lead teams and win. I would buy that theory and maybe that's the real issue.
 
Hookem Horns said:
however I find it hard to believe that some owner would rather lose with a white guy than win with a black guy.
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Honestly, I find it difficult to believe that some owners wouldn't rather have their team be represented by a white coach. I don't think any of it is about winning or losing. They likely think they can win with either. They would just rather have the image of a white guy lead the team.
 
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