Yeah but there are similarities in that both are receiving sexual favors from masseuses. Different in that Kraft wasn't being extorted by the people he engaged with, the massage parlor was being investigated by police and they obtained video (that they are now destroying) implicating him doing it. Watson, on the other hand, had a few women come to him privately demanding money to avoid lawsuit, only to magically see the number of accusers inflate in a short period of time. As of right now, there is no video info it, just she said he said.
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Sexual Assault Suits Against Watson
- Thread starter Texansballer74
- Start date
Who is being extorted?
Max
Veteran
DW by the chicks that are lying.
You know that's absurd, right?
Texansballer74
The Marine
I will be glad when this is all over with. So we can get back to Texans football.
Texans football is still here. On life support, but still here.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Well if there is a bright side to this its made it an interesting off season. In fact I think we've had more activity and conversations this off season than we did all last season. Just wish it was talking about the moves the team was making in getting new talent and not the moves Watson was making with women on Instagram.
Max
Veteran
You seem to think that 'put himself in that position' equates to guilt. It doesn't. You're posting the same stuff you were before Hardin's most recent disclosure. Serious question - why aren't you able to acknowledge that many of these women's credibility is gone?
Max
Veteran
There's no reason to go in circles with you if no matter what is disclosed about some of these accusers you're willing to believe them.
Another article focused on legal strategy
www.yahoo.com
'He doesn’t have a lot of moves to make': Six questions in the Deshaun Watson lawsuits
With Deshaun Watson facing lawsuits from 22 women alleging sexual misconduct, legal experts examine the narratives being offered in defense of QB.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Dejaview
All Pro
for you all day every day. Not for many of us.
In Hardin's response to the allegations he provided statements from witnesses that refute the allegations. These witnesses are people you would think would more likely lie for the plantiffs, being most of them are family members.
If he has affidavits those complaints are over. If he goes to trial, those witnesses will be put on stand. Those complaints are done.
So it's not he said she said anymore. It's he said, she said, & her mama said & her mama ain't backing her up.
Max
Veteran
We've gone in circles enough on this topic for you to know where I stand so please stop the strawman crap. If strength of numbers is your only argument then it can be applied to the accusers as well and if most of them are lying, then they all must be lying, right? Of course not. You don't take his word over 22. You take them one by one and toss out the claims that don't add up. I want DW to fry as much as the next guy if he's guilty. But I also don't want women jumping on the bandwagon by lying and detracting from anyone who is a real victim. You can walk and chew gum at the same time with this instead of dealing in absolutes.
Max
Veteran
Exactly. The flip side of this is true as well. If the accuser told the same story to someone close to them as they did in the lawsuit, then it helps validate their claim.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Just because he claims to have statements from friends and family doesn't actually mean he does. Note that he never actually said which friends and family members, if it was “her mama” don’t you think he would be hammering that point home?
Ask yourself this, why would family members speak out against them when they are not under any oath? How did Hardin get so many statements so fast if they didn’t know who the accusers were?
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
It’s not a straw man argument and I was seriously asking. You have hammered the point about “lack of credibility” in regards to the women but you haven’t addressed Watson’s own lack of credibility and the many things that don’t add up in his story. So my question stands, why are you holding the 22 accusers to a higher standard than you are Watson?
No you tell me. You said wow not me. I'm not a mindreader
Btw he probably asked for more than the "oily Watson". But for some reason they are destroying the tape of him
Judge: Destroy Robert Kraft Massage Parlor Video
A misdemeanor solicitation charge against Kraft was dropped in September after an appeals court ruled that video evidence couldn't be used in the case.www.si.com
Kraft paid for sex.
Watson allegedly forced people to perform sex acts on him.
Huge difference.
Max
Veteran
Fair enough. My thoughts on Watson's credibility is that there's things that his lawyer can't say because of legal traps that he'll step in if they come out and tell the truth. There's also things that don't play well in the court of public opinion. So his story in court evolved to the place where they felt gave them the best chance of winning and still avoid the pitfalls. I linked a post below that describes what I believe went down where everything in his story adds up perfectly if it's accurate. But he can't come out in court and say that this is how it went down.
Sexual Assault Suits Against Watson
Agreed But DW4 has played a big role in why the team is where it's at today. As far as on the field stuff goes, I dont even think DW4's what many on this MB think he is. But the team was a dumpster fire before this mess..... so to blame DW for the destruction of this team is to ignore the...
www.texanstalk.com
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
As you said fair enough, but that of course leads to the question of going along with it because they wanted to or going along with it because they felt they had no choice.
One of the original filings mentioned Watson talking about his reputation and how he was sure they didn’t want theirs damaged either, I’m paraphrasing. Could be he meant nothing by it but it’s like telling dirty jokes at the office, even if you meant nothing by it and weren’t even speaking to the person if they took offense it’s still harassment.
Ultimately the biggest problem Watson has is that 22 women don’t have to all be telling the truth, only one does.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
When Dardin is presenting his case to a jury, I believe everyone in the courtroom will be served a good dose of each women’s Instagram advertisement page. Dardin may ask each woman to explain their angle to the advertisement. Dardin may have found witnesses who would come in and admit that the women offered more than massage sessions. It could become very simple for Dardin to discredit these women as nothing more than hustlers who saw an opportunity for big free payday.
Max
Veteran
100%.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I mentioned this way back in the beginning but what witness is going to come forward and admit to hiring a hooker just to protect Watson?
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
Texans have been on life support since day one.
But at least our problems have all been football related. This Watson crap is like getting ate by an alligator right after the snake bites you. And I'm afraid the worst news is yet to come.
That frickin' Astrodome has to come down.
KoolAid Sipper
AFCEVET
This would not discredit them for me, if I were on the jury. They could prove to be full blown prostitutes for all I care. That’s not in question.
Did Watson assault them or not. That’s what I’m looking for evidence of, or against.
I will ask you and all of the defenders of DW4 1 question,
Would you let any woman that's important to you spend time with DW4?
The answer for me is no and I really dont care how the trial turns out if it happens. I'm just going to enjoy the entertainment value of a trial.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
To be honest, I wouldn't care one way or the other. Watson didn't rape any of these women. If anything, he pushed his limits and the girls went along with it and decided at some point they didn't like it, but didn't say no. It's not like Cosby who drugged women and raped them, or Weinstein who used his power and position to force them into sexual acts in order to keep their jobs. At most Watson pushed the limits because no one stood up and said no. That's assuming you believe what they say and he is scum. I am not convinced based on what we know thus far.
Do I think Watson showed up naked and made things uncomfortable for some of them? Absolutely. Do I think they were forced to perform the massages against their will? No, not at all. To me he walked a fine line of what I would consider acceptable and because the women perceivably went along with it, I don't think they can go back now and claim they were forced. Unless there is more evidence to show he forced them to do something, he will be in the clear.
You dont know this and neither do I.
That's what the trial will be for.
Do you want to make a $60 bet to this site that DW4 either settles or loses at trial?
amazing80
Hall of Fame
That's why I say based on what we know now and unless there is more evidence. I am open to more proof. If Watson forcibly raped anyone, he should rot in prison for life. Hell, I am in favor of the death penalty TBH, but right now there is not enough proof he did that. It's not what you know, it's what you can prove.
Is touching them with his penis even accidentally sexual assault?
amazing80
Hall of Fame
I am not going to pretend to be an expert, but if I were naked and someone was willingly giving me a message, knowing I was naked, and my penis touched them, how the hell can they claim I assaulted them?
Now if that happened and they got upset and told me not to do that again but I did it again and then they walked out and ended the session, then I could see a potential claim for assault, but even then I don't know if you can prove intent.
To your point. Here are alleged text messages asking for certain areas to be massaged and the therapist's response. I'll let @CloakNNNdagger or other professionals provide details on what is the rectus abdominus and abductor longus muscles, where are they located, how do you treat soreness and possible reasons he would want/need therapy.
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Texansballer74
The Marine
Once Watson seen those ladies were uncomfortable, he should've ended the massage session.
In this he said she said mess , what evidence could compel you one way or the other ?
All we have is someone's word either way.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
If they didn't make it crystal clear during the massage that they felt uncomfortable how would he know? Is there proof they were uncomfortable and relayed that message to him? Because if there is, I will gladly re-evaluate my stance. As of now, there is no evidence and the fact that most (if not all) performed multiple massages after the alleged events, how can we believe them?
amazing80
Hall of Fame
You also have their actions and follow-up actions. So Hardin getting people close to the "victims" stating how excited they were after the session, and how they wanted to work with him again, and the fact that many (if not all) worked with him again, you start to form a pattern and trail of evidence. It goes beyond their words.
There was a text message from him that clearly said “sorry about you being uncomfortable”
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Do we know the context of that message? That could literally mean anything. Maybe he had a small towel but covered up, maybe he farted, maybe he went to kiss her afterwards and she said no, so he apologized. That doesn't mean he harassed or assaulted her.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I'll try to answer your question in understandable terms.
The request for these 2 areas are not unusual in athletes. However, therapeutically, the TRIGGER POINTS of these muscles are where the massages are specifically directed. For the adductor [NOT ABDUCTOR LONGUS.......no such muscle] longus, the trigger point is well away from the actual groin (and the area of the penis).
Adductor Longus and Brevis Trigger Point Diagram
There is one essential/primary trigger point in each muscle, but they both refer the same pain pattern into the groin, down the anterior thigh and into knee as one unit.
******************************
As relates to the abdominis [NOT ABDOMINUS] rectus muscle (the six pack) , the trigger point associated with its local pain (which is why most athletes, especially a QB, request the massage) is just below the umbilicus (belly button)............again not in the area of the penis. [There are 2 other trigger points located higher and lower, but these not for pain in the abdominal areas...........see video]
******************************
The problem is that in the filings, the masseuses stated that when supposedly massaging the groin pain, Watson kept requesting that the massage be directed higher near the scrotum/base of the penis (away from the appropriate therapeutic adductor longus trigger point). When supposedly massaging the abdominis rectus pain, he kept requesting the massage be directed lower near the base of the penis (away from the appropriate therapeutic rectus abdominis trigger point).
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I think at this point its reasonable to believe that more than a few of these women are flat out lying/misrepresenting the situation/lying by omission & are trying to get a big pay day to save some face. Then i believe there's at least 1-2 who had some "buyer's remorse" for the same reason. They probably thought nothing of it at the time.....As Hardin asserts, some may have even bragged about it to friends.......which shows that the encounter was likely consensual. but then they later had an internal crisis with their morals once they realized that it was nothing but a hook up for DW4....or they were put off by how DW4 and his team may have "handled" them after the fact with asking them to sign NDA's and back-handed threats like the thing he said to 1 of the accusers about his reputation being dragged in the mud.
Buzzbee's whole case rests on Solis imo. She's the one who may legitimately feel like she was sexually assualted. But imo, proving that will be hard if she hasn't been completely forthcoming about EVERYTHING that happened and her motives. For all her crying and emotional distress she displayed on TV, for me as a juror i'd still be wondering why she didn't go the criminal route 1st. It just doesn't add up to me.
Buzzbee's whole case rests on Solis imo. She's the one who may legitimately feel like she was sexually assualted. But imo, proving that will be hard if she hasn't been completely forthcoming about EVERYTHING that happened and her motives. For all her crying and emotional distress she displayed on TV, for me as a juror i'd still be wondering why she didn't go the criminal route 1st. It just doesn't add up to me.