ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
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Do you think Watson will accept a trade to the Jets?
- Thread starter thunderkyss
- Start date
He's generally taking the players side on any contract issue and not taking into account that most contracts that are reworked / restructured occur after the player has made "most of the guaranteed money" or the player wasn't making a whole hell of a lot to begin with. Teams aren't doing this with guys like Mercilus who are owed a ton of guaranteed $$$. They don't care if they get cut , they get that money anyway.
Yes , the Texans could have cut David Johnson and it would have cost them $2m as it was guaranteed and he then gets to go negotiate a contract with another team.
The reason the team does that is because it would have saved them $8m against the salary cap as keeping him costs $10m.
Cutting a guy like Mercilus doesn't net you any cap savings , in fact it costs you more.
From what I've heard from the inside , Caserio is willing to let Watson sit out not only this year but multiple years and he is willing to suspend Watson to keep that contract from tolling - That's a $30m difference in next seasons cap as well as potentially void the guaranteed money as well.
Caserio aint playin around here.
That said , I find that difficult to believe as while it is the principled thing to do and would have 100% of owners / league support , its not the prudent thing to do in building the roster.
I think they trade him .... eventually.
I think he means that you have to make decisions based upon the future rather than the immediate or financial.
Take Mercilus for example .... He's dead weight and has a whole lot of guaranteed money and no trade value at all.
Do you keep that guy on your cap for $15m a year or do you bite the bullet and make the cut that costs you that $15m in a cash payment to the player and on this years cap .... but your future cap is better for it.
Commit or don't. There's 5-6 guys who they should consider dumping Pre June 1st so its all on this years cap.
Yeah , teams spend a decade trying to find that guy , shoot and miss , shoot and miss .... may as well use those picks on a sure thing.
That's quite obvious .... you may as well have said if you suck you suck.
That's also why we ran the last GM , HC and most of that staff out of town - They weren't getting it done.
Here's Chris Simms ranking the QB's coming out ..... I'm not the only one who has Wilson #1.
Chris Simms' 2021 NFL Draft QB ranking is out; Trevor Lawrence isn't No. 1 — and neither is Justin Fields (msn.com)
Jack Burton
Veteran
I kept Lawrence off because most are of the opinion that he’s still going #1 and Urban isn’t moving off him.
I agree though. I think ultimately Wilson will be the more dynamic player. I didn’t watch the vid.
I also now think Mac Jones will go top 5 and he’s going ahead of Fields.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I agree Lawrence is going number 1 no matter what because Meyer has said he's the best QB he's ever seen and most things I've read said he took the Jags coaching job because they had #1 and could draft Lawrence. Yeah they ain't moving from there.
Is it obvious? Because it is repeated so often, it seems that a QB on a rookie contract and the salary cap threshold seems to be a panacea on this forum and little is mentioned about the smart roster management that has to complement that low salary QB.
If things are so obvious, 70% of lotto winners would not end up in bankruptcy. The Texans still have to show that when they have that QB at the magical threshold, they are not going to waste valuable cap space on questionable personnel moves like Mercilus, Cobb, and Murray. Otherwise, what's the point about the salary percentage?
While collusion is illegal (when caught), I'm wondering about that unspoken backroom pressure being applied to the Texans front office by the rest of the league's owners if they let Watson get his way.
There have been many reports that owners were not happy with the Tunsil contract because the Texans overpriced the market for LTs and set a precedent.
If the Texans cave here, it could have long lasting repercussions for many years to come in the NFL as more QBs start perceiving themselves as 'more equal' than any of other other players on the team and start making grand demands of their own franchises. It's a position that is already highly overpaid, especially when looking at your metrics, and Watson getting his way could be a slippery slope that the NFL would probably like to avoid.
If Caserio is truly dug in and hardcore for the foreseeable future, get your popcorn ready. The Texans will continue to be more entertaining off the field than on.
Simms makes a solid case. That said, do you think this Texans 'braintrust' and their apparent fundamentalist mindset would ever draft a Mormon QB as the face of their franchise? It's sad that this is even a question with this front office.
Mangler
Toro de España
Peyton won ring #2 because of the defense. There is no other QB like Brady, and we may not witness another like him in our lifetime. I hope he gets himself one more before he decides to call it a career.
Jack Burton
Veteran
No QB is better at confusing a defense pre snap at the LOS than Peyton. This trait alone, even with just one arm, still had an overarching effect on the games that year. Yes, he was impaired but he still had CAR confused and second guessing him at times and was able to play a role in winning games.
And of course the D was the overall reason for the win. But Peyton went there cause of that. He ain’t stupid.
Whats Peyton and Brady head to head in the playoffs? I honestly don’t know.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
17 total head to head. Brady up 11-6 total. Manning up 3-2 in playoffs.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I've said all along. DW4's desire to leave houston has to override his desire to handpick his team. Since he's not really talking to anyone, The only way that can happen is to starve his ass out....he might be able to withstand sitting out for 6-8 games or even a whole season from a financial standpoint, but can his competitive fire to want to play withstand that? Is he willing to embrace the possibility of sitting out 2 seasons? likely not. So yes, i agree with you that he will eventually be traded...when is the question.
but to elaborate on something else, Culley was picked as the HC for several reasons, the biggest probably being that he is universally regarded by players and coaches alike as a teacher of the game. Likewise for all the hires on the coaching staff that were made. Pep Hamilton b/c of the job he did in handling a young Justin Herbert last year. Lovie just came from the college ranks. All these guys are regarded as veteran teachers of the game. and that gives you insight into how NC plans to build this roster..with a bunch of young, coachable players....none of which will have any ties or have any major feelings towards DW4. The misconception around here is that all those young guys have to come from this draft & hence want to make a qucik trade with Miami so that they can get what they can to be able to attack this draft. You don't need to do all that in this draft....This team is gonna suck next..no real way around that. NC is targeting 2022 imo. Plus, young guys can come from practice squads, they can be undrafted guys, they can be guys 1-2 years out of college that teams have been unwilling to take shots on for various reasons as well.
The roster is also void of veteran leadership right now with JJ moving on & DW4 poised to. That explains resigning DJ & why guys like Cooks & probably a few other vets on the defensive side that people expected/wanted to be cut are gonna remain here (some like Mercy just for the time being) to fill that void.
So I say all that to say that if they manage to land a young promising qb late... say a Mac Jones or Kyle Trask to go with this rebuild or someone in 2022, What happens with DW4 AUTOMATICALLY goes on the back burner for that coaching staff & all those guys in the locker room. All that hoopla associated with DW4 and the media at that point will begin to get fainter and fainter.
I like your thinking. We know 2021 is going to suck, so why not use it for player development and talent evaluation? Start building the basic foundations and bench. Don't spend anything on high priced FA, but rather look for young, hungry talent that just wants to play football and doesn't care about all this drama.
We know Watson won't be in the locker-room, so his influence will be minimal. And anyone trying to undermine the team on his behalf will just be removed, traded, cut.
My question is how free is Caserio to make decisions? Is he at all handicapped by anyone in the building or is he in agreement with their so-called "character development" agenda? Or is that just the latest Texans front office catchphrase but is really meaningless?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The Patriots while he was there brought in numerous guys that had problems in college and with other NFL teams.
in saying that, I think Caserio has free reign to shape this roster how he wants. I think that was something he negotiated. But just due to who he is as a person....which is why the Texans & Easterby have been after this dude so fervently for years, i wouldn't expect him to be bringing in guys with lengthy track records of problems. But i also don't think he'll shy away from bringing in guys with a few scuffs on their records either if he thinks that individual can help them win. IOW, He'll do his research.
Jack Burton
Veteran
Surprised Manning bettered him in the playoffs. That’s impressive.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I think his freedom is determined by the round table in the Kirby board/game room.
Dejaview
Wahoo Sabi
I'm more inclined to believe his freedom is determined from the fact Cal waited a few years to get him. Watching this guy so far there is no way he’s going to put up with any bullfeces. Cal needs to hang onto the coattails of a winner these days.
Maybe that’s why they’ve been cleaning house? Maybe all the front office shakeup was to clean up leaks and people taking advantage of their position? I could see our front office, administration whatever you want to call it being run really loose. Mcnares havent exactly been cut throat busines men at least when it’s come to the Texans.There's a whole lot of leaks and they start much higher than you'd imagine.
i can see Billichek being 110% in control of everything. A guy no one wants to be caught leaking or whatever by him. Maybe easter bee did this at NE and beach ball head believes that’s why the NE franchise is so successful.
I don’t know if any of that is true. I’m just trying to find the logic in all this.
I get what you’re saying. Doesn’t fall in line with what he’s saying.
He believes the McNairs make decisions to increase the bottom line. & he believes the McNairs don’t equate winning with the bottom line. Roster moves, such as Mercilus don’t move the McNair needle.
I think he’s pointing to a David Carr type decision, but I’m not seeing anything like that probable.
Question.
If you were the Jets, would you trade for Watson?
they are not a QB away & people have identified two “franchise QBs” other than Lawrence in this draft.
If it makes sense for Houston to trade Watson for the Jets picks, would it make sense for the Jets to keep their picks?
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
I do too, but when? I think they’ll eventually want to move on from this and start building their football team. Is this year’s potential haul of what could be traded for Watson, relative to the picks teams have available this year and where they’re positioned, going to be better than what might be available next year at this time?
For example, the Dolphins and Jets are in the optimal spots with where they’re drafting, and with multiple 1sts this year. That’s a pretty huge incentive to get something done now. Who has multiple 1sts next year and how close to the top of the draft will one of those 1s be to make things as spicy as this year? Can’t know that answer, of course. And what does next years QB class look like?
OTOH, I’m sure the NFL is frowning on what it means opening that Pandora’s Box should the Texans go ahead and trade him. I could see letting this play out for a year, but I don’t think it would make too much sense to let it go any longer than that.
Jack Burton
Veteran
Apparently CHI is trying to make a play for Watson....
Bears All-In On Texas Trade For Deshaun Watson - Report
According to a report, the Chicago Bears are planning to go all-in to acquire Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson.
www.si.com
I don’t see what they have to offer. Mack isn’t needed for a rebuild.Apparently CHI is trying to make a play for Watson....
Bears All-In On Texas Trade For Deshaun Watson - Report
According to a report, the Chicago Bears are planning to go all-in to acquire Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson.
Jack Burton
Veteran
Yeah, me either. I think this is just more drummed up fluff from the media cause there’s absolutely nothing to talk about.
I'm glad Lawrence is thought of as he is .... that'll make him the #1 and he'll never reach the expectations , the odds are just stacked against him. Guys that tall just usually struggle to develop a compact enough release to get the ball out in a hurry. Geometry is against them.
Lots of these mocks have 5 QB's going in the top 10 .... that's absolutely crazy and reinforces the idea that this is a QB driven league and you either have your QB or you go get the best one you can find.
The Texans are those 70% of lotto winners who go bankrupt .... they are an example in what not to do , not what to do.
The salary cap era has brought with it the requirement of the guys in charge of contracts and talent evaluation / valuation / acquisition to be on top of their games just like the guys on the field .... those guys blow it , it really doesn't matter how good 2-3 stars are because the rest of the team is substandard and despite the fact that QB is the most important / impactful position in all of professional sports - Football is still the ultimate team sport.
While collusion is illegal (when caught), I'm wondering about that unspoken backroom pressure being applied to the Texans front office by the rest of the league's owners if they let Watson get his way.
There have been many reports that owners were not happy with the Tunsil contract because the Texans overpriced the market for LTs and set a precedent.
If the Texans cave here, it could have long lasting repercussions for many years to come in the NFL as more QBs start perceiving themselves as 'more equal' than any of other other players on the team and start making grand demands of their own franchises. It's a position that is already highly overpaid, especially when looking at your metrics, and Watson getting his way could be a slippery slope that the NFL would probably like to avoid.
If Caserio is truly dug in and hardcore for the foreseeable future, get your popcorn ready. The Texans will continue to be more entertaining off the field than on.
You know without a doubt that the owners , aside from the one who ultimately landed Watson would be furious at the Texans for letting Watson set this kind of precedent.
This is bigger than "Watson & the Texans" its the players VS the owners and the CBA they all agreed to.
Like I said , from what I have heard Caserio is dug in and ain't gonna budge.
I've asked that question in another thread .... it turned into a religious discussion and @thunderkyss gave us a spanking!
I really wish the McNair's would just sell the team ....They've proven they can't run the asylum and I can't see it getting any worse with a new owner.
Maybe then we could evaluate players for what they do between the lines rather than in church.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Especially if the Texans come out winning and whoever the quarterback is looking good in the process.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
The longer this goes....the more I see QB's Trevor Lawrence (Clemson) and Zach Wilson (BYU) becoming 1A and 1B in the 2021 NFL Draft. Both are now being discussed as "Franchise QB's" and by the time the draft kicks off...."Generational Type of QB's".
With this realization....the Jaguars and Jets will stand pat with their picks b/c both are inline for top shelf QB's. I 100% can say the Jets will hold their pick and keep their draft pick stockpile in 2021 and 2022 to build a team around Wilson. They will pick up more draft capital when they put Sam Darnold on the market.
By all assessments, there's Lawrence, Wilson, and then everyone else QB wise. That pretty much dwindles the available teams to Miami that possess all the pieces necessary to make a deal with the Texans. Caserio will have to decide if getting a QB in the 2021 draft to replace Watson is the top priority? Reaching at #3 could be a mess. Or, does he decide to re-sign McCarron to bridge the position for the next couple of seasons and use the picks obtains in a Watson trade to build the team overall?
In the Miami scenario.....and Miami knows they have the cards since the Jets will bow out of this process:
Watson Only:
2021
RD1-03-003
RD1-18-018
RD2-03-035
Tua
Howard
2022
RD1
Watson / Cooks:
2021 Add
RD2-018-050
If Caserio could squeeze a 2023 RD1 pick out of the deal......I believe that would be a job well done.
With this realization....the Jaguars and Jets will stand pat with their picks b/c both are inline for top shelf QB's. I 100% can say the Jets will hold their pick and keep their draft pick stockpile in 2021 and 2022 to build a team around Wilson. They will pick up more draft capital when they put Sam Darnold on the market.
By all assessments, there's Lawrence, Wilson, and then everyone else QB wise. That pretty much dwindles the available teams to Miami that possess all the pieces necessary to make a deal with the Texans. Caserio will have to decide if getting a QB in the 2021 draft to replace Watson is the top priority? Reaching at #3 could be a mess. Or, does he decide to re-sign McCarron to bridge the position for the next couple of seasons and use the picks obtains in a Watson trade to build the team overall?
In the Miami scenario.....and Miami knows they have the cards since the Jets will bow out of this process:
Watson Only:
2021
RD1-03-003
RD1-18-018
RD2-03-035
Tua
Howard
2022
RD1
Watson / Cooks:
2021 Add
RD2-018-050
If Caserio could squeeze a 2023 RD1 pick out of the deal......I believe that would be a job well done.
Depending on how much you trust John McClain's recent interview, it sounds like nothing has changed on Kirby with regards to the boardroom mentality.
Easterby having any influence on Caserio is a sign that the dysfunction will continue. Apparently this is how the McNairs like to operate in spite of overwhelmingly mediocre results.
- Patrick Mahomes, QB, Texas Tech
Texas Tech's Patrick Mahomes is a special, special talent. He has the potential to be an Aaron Rodgers-, Brett Favre-type quarterback in the NFL, and he'd be a good fit with the Buffalo Bills.
&&&&&&&
And here's Simms getting it right again with his call on MaHomes back in this 2017 mock Draft.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I think it's the only way they know how to operate. You know, worked well and was successful at Reliant will work on Kirby and for the Houston Texans (along with a little ego getting in the way).
Jack Burton
Veteran
I would expect Mac Jones to be drafted 3 then.
Seeing a lot of chatter that Jones is gone by pick 4 now. He’s getting a lot of buzz. McCarron stays as the backup and Tua is traded to NE for another 2nd this year. HOU would have 3 BAMA QBs on the team for a hot minute, FFS.
Then there’s a mad rush by a bunch of teams for Fields.
If that’s the best that Caserio can do its really not bad at all. He needs to hit on all those picks going forward.
So it’s,
1-3
1-18
2-35
2-46 (Tua NE)
Now, take those picks and give me who you would take at those spots in the draft. Of course I have Jones at 3 cause that’s what I think they will do in that scenario.
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1-3 Mac Jones
1-18 Christian Barimore
2-35 Ifeatu Melifonu
2-46 Jabril Cox
3-67 Kary Vincent
badboy
Hall of Fame
Start with a caveat that I think Texans will be in the top 3 pics with their own selection in 2022. That offers an extremely good player including a quarterback or huge trade down package if we get effective starter this season.
2021 pick three offers next best QBs in Fields, Mac and Tre Lance. Each can be had later with more than one team trading significantly for 1.3 which if it is Texans' pick I would trade down.
I'm still in favor of TuaTagovaila as a $2 million starter-- bridge at minimum, starter for more if his health holds. I am not opposed to selecting one of those three later in round one but see 2021 as year to load at all positions thru draft and FA.
Few seem to mention the 'build the oline then get QB'. If you think one of the three above is your guy and you can get him at 18, a trade down from 1.3 with Panthers at 8 brings a stud OT that allows you to move Tunsil to LG or better trade him. Or a franchise type WR that makes entire offense better. Or gets you a corner to go with Roby and X Howard that suddenly upgrades the defense.
I think most mocks have starting tackles, guards, centers and RBs in round two so I want more that round than 22 round two.
What can we get for Tunsil? Dallas 1.10 plus? I'm asking for WR Lamb. Those two plus 1.3 if no trade down + 1.18. + 2.35 + 2.50 + Howard resolves a lot. I like Tua but 2.46 for example is sweet.
Tunsil and Watson trades can offer a great reload and any additional 2022 picks for either only better.
2021 pick three offers next best QBs in Fields, Mac and Tre Lance. Each can be had later with more than one team trading significantly for 1.3 which if it is Texans' pick I would trade down.
I'm still in favor of TuaTagovaila as a $2 million starter-- bridge at minimum, starter for more if his health holds. I am not opposed to selecting one of those three later in round one but see 2021 as year to load at all positions thru draft and FA.
Few seem to mention the 'build the oline then get QB'. If you think one of the three above is your guy and you can get him at 18, a trade down from 1.3 with Panthers at 8 brings a stud OT that allows you to move Tunsil to LG or better trade him. Or a franchise type WR that makes entire offense better. Or gets you a corner to go with Roby and X Howard that suddenly upgrades the defense.
I think most mocks have starting tackles, guards, centers and RBs in round two so I want more that round than 22 round two.
What can we get for Tunsil? Dallas 1.10 plus? I'm asking for WR Lamb. Those two plus 1.3 if no trade down + 1.18. + 2.35 + 2.50 + Howard resolves a lot. I like Tua but 2.46 for example is sweet.
Tunsil and Watson trades can offer a great reload and any additional 2022 picks for either only better.
Jack Burton
Veteran
Here’s my mock under OpTexansFans trade.
MIA gets WATSON
HOU gets,
CB - XAVIEN HOWARD
1-3 QB MAC JONES BAMA
1-18 RB NAJEE HARRIS BAMA
2-36 WR KADARIUS TONEY FLA
2-46 WR TERRANCE MARSHALL LSU
3-67 LB NICK BOLTON MIZZOU
4-110 S DAMAR HAMLIN PITT
4-123 DT TEDERRALL SLAYTON FLA
5-149 CB TRE BROWN OKLA
6-191 S SHAWN DAVIS FLA
6-205 C JORDAN REID MICH ST
6-215 QB SHANE BUECHELE SMU
7-227 P MAX DUFFY KENTUCKY
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I would make the trade for a reasonable price. I honestly doubt Dougkas trades for him though. He just had a presser where he was asked if he would give up significant draft capital to trade for a player (indirectly being asked if he would trade for Watson) and his answer was that he believes the only way for the jets to be successful long term is to build the team through the draft. So while he didnt flat out say no what he said was that he wont be giving up excessive assets to get watson
He also had the rankings as:
Lamar jackson
Josh allen
Baker Mayfield
Sam darnold
Josh rosen
While everyone else basically had darnold and mayfield as the top 2
Yeah, but he got Trubiski as the no. 1 QB in that draft with Watson near the very the bottom of the round.
2017 NFL Mock Draft: Chris Simms' Final Predictions
The NFL draft is all about elite talent, proposed value and where you can get guys in relation to their value. Interestingly enough, I don't think this draft is heavy in top-end talent, but there is a wealth of depth and value to be had...
bleacherreport.com
Also, he had the Texans taking a certain Obi Lemon Tofu. The guy barely played in the NFL.
Read the part he wrote for the Texans at 25.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Could be he really feels that way but even if he doesn’t he has to say he does. He can’t say “Oh yeah for certain players I’d give up all the picks, any player on the team, my house, my car and my wife. For Watson I’d even throw my dog in there.”
could be. but my bet is that the jets don't trade for watson........but if they do it would be for no more than this years 1sts and a 1st next year. douglas isn't giving up more than that for 1 player
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Maybe but you have an owner that wants to make a splash and I can’t see them liking the idea of Watson going to Miami.
KoolAid Sipper
AFCEVET
Do you honestly think the Jets would present such an insulting offer? I could only see that as an intro to the negotiation conversation and if I were the Texans I would LMAO. I don't know the specifics of the Stafford trade and even with Jared Goff included, DW4 is worth way more.
We have an owner that wants to win. Not gonna win by turning our team into the northeast version of your team.
I dont think its insulting. I think some of you are delusional in what you expect to get back in a trade.