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DW4 staying or going?

On May 1st 2021 DeShawn Watson will be:

  • Total voters
    53
thunderkyss said:
I hope this is our current structure, but we don’t know yet. I think the Culley hire points in that direction. But there’s little else to support this.
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Agreed but to be fair you never really know what kind of a structure a company has. Chiefs for example have the same kind of structure but it’s been said for years Reid picks the draft picks and the GM just carries out his will. Pats swear BB is the sole power and does everything but anyone that knows anything about managing a large company knows that it’s to much for one person.

Suffice to say at least we don’t seem to have this GM says this and HC says that and the owner decides who’s right.
 
austins23 said:
I don't watch basketball so i had never heard about this. This is garbage. These guys play a damn game for a living, they need to quit acting like they are entitled. All of them.
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Now he’s throwing shots at them talking about he was drained for having to score 40 a night. When he was the one dribbling the clock away and not passing the ball so he could pad his stats. He also ran really good players off because they complained about the offense.
 
Earl34 said:
If you can't hire the HC and cannot influence or guide the McNairs then you are a neutered EVP. I guess he didn't pray as hard as Easterby.
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What’s the connection between Easterby & Culley?

Culley wasn’t on the list before Caserio came in. Neither was Lovie, or Pep. IMO Easterby had nothing to do with the HC hire.
 
ClemsonTexan said:
I would agree with this. I'm not sure how people come up with all of this speculation about his GF, his agent, etc. when he made the source of his frustration quite clear in his last interview.

"There's no real foundation in view. Everyone sees it. Everyone knows that. Got to have a guy that can come in and stand strong, stand 10 toes down and, (say), 'Hey, this is the way it's going to go, and this is the way we're going to win.'
"That's what we need. It's kind of just up in the air right now. That's what I'm looking forward to, some disciplined responsibility and some good, fun energy that cares about winning championships and winning games but at the same time is coming in to work each and every day regardless."

Fair or not, that's his perception of the organization. He thinks it's a crapshow. The Caserio hire probably proves it's still a crapshow. Now he wants out. As a Texans fan, you have every right to be mad about that. But there's no need to run rampant with speculation about his IG baddie GF putting ideas into his head about going to NY or Miami when the man has already said he doesn't see a "real foundation" in view in the organization he's currently a part of. The most logical inference is that he still doesn't see a foundation in view, not that he's under the influence of Jezebel, Deandre Hopkins and an evil agent.
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this I can agree with.....but the Caserio hire should be a sign to him that that foundation is FINALLY beginning to settle. Since DW4 has been with the Texans he’s already seen 4 GM’s (Smith, Gaine, BoB and Easterby). Caserio will be his 5th, & quite frankly the most qualified guy for the job we’ve had since Charlie Casserly. Of the 4 he’s already had, the longest tenured one was BoB .....for like a year....but the only 1 with any experience anywhere close to Caserio’s experience in all aspects of what the GM’s role is was Smith. Hiring Caserio is also a sign that Cal wants to go back to the traditional set up. Caserio keeping Kelly around and the experienced coaches being brought in....is yet another sign.

At this point the only dysfunction going on that’s causing “foundational” issues are whether or not their star qb is in or out. if he was all the way in, no one, fans or media would give a rip about equipment managers, and Presidents of Business Operations being fired or being let go.
 
Mr teX said:
this I can agree with.....but the Caserio hire should be a sign to him that that foundation is FINALLY beginning to settle. Since DW4 has been with the Texans he’s already seen 4 GM’s (Smith, Gaine, BoB and Easterby). Caserio will be his 5th, & quite frankly the most qualified guy for the job we’ve had since Charlie Casserly. Of the 4 he’s already had, the longest tenured one was BoB .....for like a year....but the only 1 with any experience anywhere close to Caserio’s experience in all aspects of what the GM’s role is was Smith. Hiring Caserio is also a sign that Cal wants to go back to the traditional set up. Caserio keeping Kelly around and the experienced coaches being brought in....is yet another sign.
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And this all seems perfectly logical to an outsider with no idea of the inner workings of the organization. It's like fans forget, or perhaps were never aware in the first place, that at the end of the day NFL franchises are places of employment with all of the personality conflicts, internal strife, mismanagement and backstabbing politics that are present in many places of work. From YOUR vantage point, the Caserio hire is a good thing for all of the reasons you elucidated. However, we really have no idea how people within the organization feel about it, including the players. I'm sure a lot of these guys probably have a running text chat together--as I do with some of my co-workers--and for all we know half of the Texans locker room could be disgruntled with the hire. This seems to be a possibility that most of you have never actually considered. Some assume he's abandoning his team when it's possible Cooks, Fuller, Akins and others are saying "GET OUT!!!"

It would be good if we could all demonstrate a bit of humility and admit that we don't really know everything that's going on.
 
amazing80 said:
The craziness around these parts run deep.
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I think the real craziness is that middle aged men actually care about the well-being of a multi-billion dollar organization.

Not that I care about rich athletes that much either. But I watch sports for the athletes. I'm a fan of Lebron/Curry/Kawhi and not the organizations they play for so I'm all about player empowerment and guys moving around the League as they see fit. But this is admittedly a more Millennial/Gen Z perspective.
 
ClemsonTexan said:
I think the real craziness is that middle aged men actually care about the well-being of a multi-billion dollar organization.

Not that I care about rich athletes that much either. But I watch sports for the athletes. I'm a fan of Lebron/Curry/Kawhi and not the organizations they play for so I'm all about player empowerment and guys moving around the League as they see fit. But this is admittedly a more Millennial/Gen Z perspective.
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Hell, with that Millenial/Gen Z attitude, I kind of like the idea of letting all athletes in all sports become FA's after every yr and let sports truly become a dog eat dog world. That would be very entertaining and isn't that what sports is supposed to be about, not all of the crap we've seen in sports lately?
 
steelbtexan said:
You dont trade him for a bad deal and you make his agent find the deal that YOU like if your Caserio. Otherwise hold onto him and trade him at the deadline or next offseason. Just dont do a bad deal because your afraid of DW4 being a locker room cancer because most of those guys wont be on the team in 2022-2023.
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I think the last thing you want is his agent "finding you a deal" .... That guy is why we are in the situation we are in to begin with , you don't want him involved in any way.

I tell Watson if he wants out , he waives the NTC and I find my own deal or we can play hardball because I really don't want to trade him anyway because I don't see how we are going to get anything close to equal value to begin with. Not when I'm losing a top 8 QB and paying 20% of his contract for each of the next 5 years to play for someone else.

You want out , you waive the NTC or we have no starting point for a deal at all.
 
thunderkyss said:
I hope this is our current structure, but we don’t know yet. I think the Culley hire points in that direction. But there’s little else to support this.
Click to expand...

The further away from the Culley hire we get , the more clear the picture has become.

I think he was a guy they could control and nothing more - don't believe it ? Just look at how the team dictated his staff including both OC and DC.

I can't think of any other recent HC who didn't get to bring in his own coordinators along with much of the rest of his staff ....

I wish Culley well .... but the optics don't look good to me.
 
ClemsonTexan said:
I think the real craziness is that middle aged men actually care about the well-being of a multi-billion dollar organization.

Not that I care about rich athletes that much either. But I watch sports for the athletes. I'm a fan of Lebron/Curry/Kawhi and not the organizations they play for so I'm all about player empowerment and guys moving around the League as they see fit. But this is admittedly a more Millennial/Gen Z perspective.
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Us middle aged old men have been fans of the team thru generations of players - Players come and go , the logo on the helmet is permanent for the most part.
 
Corrosion said:
The further away from the Culley hire we get , the more clear the picture has become.

I think he was a guy they could control and nothing more - don't believe it ? Just look at how the team dictated his staff including both OC and DC.

I can't think of any other recent HC who didn't get to bring in his own coordinators along with much of the rest of his staff ....

I wish Culley well .... but the optics don't look good to me.
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I mentioned before, McClain said Lovie's name was never in any discussion until Culley brought him up in their interview.

They interviewed Lovie for HC, but also discussed working with Culley.

Then they brought in several others including Pep Hamilton.

The only one that doesn't fit is Tim Kelly, but I think we know what that's about.
 
Corrosion said:
I think the last thing you want is his agent "finding you a deal" .... That guy is why we are in the situation we are in to begin with , you don't want him involved in any way.

I tell Watson if he wants out , he waives the NTC and I find my own deal or we can play hardball because I really don't want to trade him anyway because I don't see how we are going to get anything close to equal value to begin with. Not when I'm losing a top 8 QB and paying 20% of his contract for each of the next 5 years to play for someone else.

You want out , you waive the NTC or we have no starting point for a deal at all.
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You have a better chance of getting a better deal by telling the agent what you want for DW4 and tell him you're not trading DW4 until you get what you want. Give him your list of players/teams and let him do the work. If he cant come through for DW4 then that failure is on DW4's agent.
 
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Lucky said:
Culley knew the score coming in. It's Jack's show. But, this was going to be his only shot at a head job and big payday. I'm not blaming him for anything that happens. However, I won't feel sorry for Culley when the axe inevitably falls.
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We're in agreement ....
 
steelbtexan said:
You have a better chance of getting telling the agent what you want for DW4 and tell him you're not trading DW4 until you get what you want. Give him your list of players/teams and let him do the work. If he cant come through for DW4 then that failure is on DW4's agent.
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You forget , the agent works for Watson , he has his best interest first and foremost , not yours , not the teams.

Watson has already stated he didn't want to go to a team that had to give up the goods to acquire him. You really think that agent is gonna get you your best deal?

IF I was to agree to trade him , it would be on my terms , not his and not his agents. I'm the one who holds his contract in my hands for the next 5 years. You either waive the NTC and I'll get what I can or you work for the Texans .... or sit out and don't get paid.
 
Corrosion said:
You forget , the agent works for Watson , he has his best interest first and foremost , not yours , not the teams.

Watson has already stated he didn't want to go to a team that had to give up the goods to acquire him. You really think that agent is gonna get you your best deal?

IF I was to agree to trade him , it would be on my terms , not his and not his agents. I'm the one who holds his contract in my hands for the next 5 years. You either waive the NTC and I'll get what I can or you work for the Texans .... or sit out and don't get paid.
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If DW4 wants to be traded his agent would get me what I wanted or he stays in Houston. So in a sense DW4 would be working for you if he wanted to get his client traded.
 
ClemsonTexan said:
I think the real craziness is that middle aged men actually care about the well-being of a multi-billion dollar organization.

Not that I care about rich athletes that much either. But I watch sports for the athletes. I'm a fan of Lebron/Curry/Kawhi and not the organizations they play for so I'm all about player empowerment and guys moving around the League as they see fit. But this is admittedly a more Millennial/Gen Z perspective.
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And that’s why if Watson gets traded you’ll be Clemson (whatever team) on their forums. You’re right, no loyalty and thinking you don’t have to honor any commitments is more a Millennial/Gen Z perspective and it’s nothing to be proud of.
 
badboy said:
Isn't Russell Wilson cap hit for 2021 dead money 39 million dollars?
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Yes it is.

There was discussion that they would move on from him and go with a QB on a rookie contract.

That's a hell of a hit in year one but imagine what they could add in year two of FA ....

If they hit on the right QB , they could put a quality team around him quickly and make a run.
 
ClemsonTexan said:
And this all seems perfectly logical to an outsider with no idea of the inner workings of the organization. It's like fans forget, or perhaps were never aware in the first place, that at the end of the day NFL franchises are places of employment with all of the personality conflicts, internal strife, mismanagement and backstabbing politics that are present in many places of work. From YOUR vantage point, the Caserio hire is a good thing for all of the reasons you elucidated. However, we really have no idea how people within the organization feel about it, including the players. I'm sure a lot of these guys probably have a running text chat together--as I do with some of my co-workers--and for all we know half of the Texans locker room could be disgruntled with the hire. This seems to be a possibility that most of you have never actually considered. Some assume he's abandoning his team when it's possible Cooks, Fuller, Akins and others are saying "GET OUT!!!"

It would be good if we could all demonstrate a bit of humility and admit that we don't really know everything that's going on.
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I find it comical that the whole “employment just like us” argument is brought out. the same folks who bring this argument to the table are the same ones who say these guys are deserving of the exorbitant money they receive to play a game b/c “everybody can’t do what they do and you can’t compare your 9-5 to them”.

So what you’re saying....that all may be true..but unlike him, most of us aren’t beholden to a company b/c we signed a 5 year contract either. 95% of us are free to leave our places of employment for greener pastures whenever we choose with no strings attached except MAYBE those in a situation where they have a noncompete clause. Some of us might even be penalized by the industry for doing such a thing if we left our current employer acrimoniously. Are you saying DW4 deserves none of that b/c Cal/Easterby and the Texans FO were idiots the previous 2 years? C’mon man. Most of us also understand that if we are going to get “input” on who the boss hires, that’s all it would be and we’d fully expect them to hire whoever they chose and not “check with us 1st”.

bottom line is He signed a contract that he wasn’t forced to sign & no matter how much spin you and others try to put out there, that was something HE and he alone decided to do. And that decision is something that he should be made to pay for. It’s just business remember?
 
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ClemsonTexan said:
I think the real craziness is that middle aged men actually care about the well-being of a multi-billion dollar organization.

Not that I care about rich athletes that much either. But I watch sports for the athletes. I'm a fan of Lebron/Curry/Kawhi and not the organizations they play for so I'm all about player empowerment and guys moving around the League as they see fit. But this is admittedly a more Millennial/Gen Z perspective.
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He somewhat forfeited his “empowerment” when he signed on the dotted line before he had to.
 
Corrosion said:
Yes it is.

There was discussion that they would move on from him and go with a QB on a rookie contract.

That's a hell of a hit in year one but imagine what they could add in year two of FA ....

If they hit on the right QB , they could put a quality team around him quickly and make a run.
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Same with the Texans.
 
Corrosion said:
The further away from the Culley hire we get , the more clear the picture has become.

I think he was a guy they could control and nothing more - don't believe it ? Just look at how the team dictated his staff including both OC and DC.

I can't think of any other recent HC who didn't get to bring in his own coordinators along with much of the rest of his staff ....

I wish Culley well .... but the optics don't look good to me.
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This is Nick Caserio's team. And the further along we get I doubt Caserio will make it to the end of the his 3rd year.
 
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Texian said:
I've a general feeling that you will want to revise your thinking before the start of this season.
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Hopefully not,

Just depends on what they do with DW4 and if they're on board with trading DW4 and being fully committed to a total rebuild, in addition to seeing what kind of bounty they can get for DW4.

Caserio's tenure will be decided by what kind of deal they can get for DW4 and if they can be successful rebuilding the franchise with those picks. This is why I preferred Dorsey over Caserio, Dorsey has done this before. Caserio hasn't and I'm afraid there will be a learning curve for Caserio even though he's been BB's right hand man for a decade.
 
maverick512000 said:
And that’s why if Watson gets traded you’ll be Clemson (whatever team) on their forums. You’re right, no loyalty and thinking you don’t have to honor any commitments is more a Millennial/Gen Z perspective and it’s nothing to be proud of.
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And I remember as a GenXer when I thought my attitude towards things that make sense (ie you signed a contract 6 months ago and your boss might expect you to honor it no matter what you think the organization) was so unique and cool.

DW gave an organization that he does not trust (probably correctly) the trump card by signing the contract.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
And I remember as a GenXer when I thought my attitude towards things that make sense (ie you signed a contract 6 months ago and your boss might expect you to honor it no matter what you think the organization) was so unique and cool.

DW gave an organization that he does not trust (probably correctly) the trump card by signing the contract.
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Problem that this new way of thinking has is that the law still says the old way, IE you signed it so you honor it, is right.
 
steelbtexan said:
Hell, with that Millenial/Gen Z attitude, I kind of like the idea of letting all athletes in all sports become FA's after every yr and let sports truly become a dog eat dog world. That would be very entertaining and isn't that what sports is supposed to be about, not all of the crap we've seen in sports lately?
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Heck, let's take it a step further and just get rid of city names on the teams. Each city can have available facilities and bid on a team for a 3-5 year deal. Teams could rotate city to city, and then every year use your concept and have a fantasy-type Madden franchise draft every off-season.

Think of how exciting it would be if the Texans was at the end of their tenure and Houston gets to bid for another team to move in for a while. Added excitement is seeing who plays for "your" team each year.

If they want to be a circus, then act like the circus when it rolls through town. Almost everyone loves the clowns.

Corrosion said:
Us middle aged old men have been fans of the team thru generations of players - Players come and go , the logo on the helmet is permanent for the most part.
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Yep. Like Seinfeld said, we root for laundry.

Maybe those concepts have become antiquated. Younger generations seem to have less loyalty toward individual franchises and seem to be more about individual players, especially with the growing popularity of fantasy leagues and social media.

Personally, I'm becoming less and less of a fan of being stuck with one team just because it's your city, especially when the franchise is run by an unqualified goober and his Heaven's Gate sidekick. I lost all connection of football to my childhood when the NFL allowed Bud Adams & Bob Lanier to murder the Houston Oilers. Now all I can see is the corporate seams of a mediocre local entertainment company.
 
steelbtexan said:
Hopefully not,

Just depends on what they do with DW4 and if they're on board with trading DW4 and being fully committed to a total rebuild, in addition to seeing what kind of bounty they can get for DW4.

Caserio's tenure will be decided by what kind of deal they can get for DW4 and if they can be successful rebuilding the franchise with those picks. This is why I preferred Dorsey over Caserio, Dorsey has done this before. Caserio hasn't and I'm afraid there will be a learning curve for Caserio even though he's been BB's right hand man for a decade.
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They will trade DW4 because they will not be dictated to and will not allow the inmates to run the prison (insane asylum). That's their mentality and behavior. They will get less than most people think DW4 is worth. Then Caserio will totally screw up the draft with some convoluted Patriot BS that the off the wall players drafted fit their culture and system. Then you will follow up with a post that the lost decade has now become the lost generation. :)
 
Texian said:
They will trade DW4 because they will not be dictated to and will not allow the inmates to run the prison (insane asylum). That's their mentality and behavior. They will get less than most people think DW4 is worth. Then Caserio will totally screw up the draft with some convoluted Patriot BS that the off the wall players drafted fit their culture and system. Then you will follow up with a post that the lost decade has now become the lost generation. :)
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What do you think DW4's worth.

Do you think DW4 stepped outside his pay grade?
 
steelbtexan said:
What do you think DW4's worth.

Do you think DW4 stepped outside his pay grade?
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Minimum 4 #1s, must have 4 to cover Texans covering $20MM signing bonus. Throw in Cooks to make it 4 1st rds., 2 2nd rds. 2 3rd rds.

Yes, agents and players are trying to turn NFL into NBA. Doesn't change the fact that Cal made this poop sandwich. This will get worse before it gets better.
 
Texian said:
Minimum 4 #1s, must have 4 to cover Texans covering $20MM signing bonus. Throw in Cooks to make it 4 1st rds., 2 2nd rds. 2 3rd rds.

Yes, agents and players are trying to turn NFL into NBA. Doesn't change the fact that Cal made this poop sandwich. This will get worse before it gets better.
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If say Carolina wants to do a deal I want #8/#40, 2022 1st, McCafferey/Burns.
 
steelbtexan said:
If say Carolina wants to do a deal I want #8/#40, 2022 1st, McCafferey/Burns.
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No deal.

McCaffery & Burns are either gone by the time my next QB has matured to playoff level or they are vastly overpaid ...

The other issue is that doesn't get me my QB of choice.

Only deal I'm willing to do at this point is with the Jets for both their #1's and a #2 this year and both #1's and a #2 next year..
 
Corrosion said:
No deal.

McCaffery & Burns are either gone by the time my next QB has matured to playoff level or they are vastly overpaid ...

The other issue is that doesn't get me my QB of choice.

Only deal I'm willing to do at this point is with the Jets for both their #1's and a #2 this year and both #1's and a #2 next year..
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Dolphins aren't in the conversation?
 
Corrosion said:
No deal.

McCaffery & Burns are either gone by the time my next QB has matured to playoff level or they are vastly overpaid ...

The other issue is that doesn't get me my QB of choice.

Only deal I'm willing to do at this point is with the Jets for both their #1's and a #2 this year and both #1's and a #2 next year..
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You aren't going to get that.

You may get a 1/2 this yr and a 1 next yr plus Quinnen Williams.

I would be happy with the Panthers package. You get Burns who's a very good pass rusher on his rookie deal and is very young. McCaffery who will be good for a few more yrs and will help the $$$$ match in a W4 trade and two high 1sts plus a high 2nd. That's fair. Maybe they like Mac Jones alot I know they talked with him at the Sr Bowl.
 
steelbtexan said:
What do you think DW4's worth.

Do you think DW4 stepped outside his pay grade?
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Although the question is for Texian, I’ll butt in and voice my opinion. I think Watson is worth four 1st round picks, three 2nd round picks, and two 3rd round picks.
I would, however, accept three 1st round picks, two 2nd round picks, and three 3rd round picks.
And for the last question...Watson has not only stepped outside his pay grade, he has also overstepped his boundaries.
 
Mangler said:
Although the question is for Texian, I’ll butt in and voice my opinion. I think Watson is worth four 1st round picks, three 2nd round picks, and two 3rd round picks.
I would, however, accept three 1st round picks, two 2nd round picks, and three 3rd round picks.
And for the last question...Watson has not only stepped outside his pay grade, he has also overstepped his boundaries.
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Nobody's paying that. Not even close.
 
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