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The all encompassing DW4 good plays thread

ClemsonTexan said:
It's ridiculous second-guessing for two reasons. One relates to the play call itself. Even with the benefit of hindsight, there's not much to hate about the play call since it did in fact spring Akins open. The only reason to say that it should have not been called is because we know it didn't work.

The second relates to Watson's performance in the pocket on that specific play. The criticism is that he should have stood tall and delivered a strike notwithstanding a DE bearing down on him. After all, the greats do this all the time, right? The only problem is that the greats almost never do this under the same circumstances. This wasn't a situation like the 4th and 3 in KC where Watson knows the blitz is coming. In that situation, it's only a matter of (a) knowing where the blitz is coming from and (b) getting the ball out on time. This was a situation where Watson is not expecting a DE to come barreling into him in the end zone at the top of his drop. Almost universally, a QB takes a sack in that situation. The irony here is that Watson is the best QB in the NFL when it comes to evading pressure that really shouldn't be in his face to begin with.

It's also a bit ridiculous because the alternative could have been far worse than the actual result. What if Watson took that second hitch step, got blasted, and the ball flew 10 yards past his intended target and got intercepted? It's all nitpicky second-guessing. It's not plain error where a QB makes a mistake no coach or offensive coordinator would consider reasonable.
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OK, sure... discussing football plays on a football forum is ridiculous, got it.
 
This thread has really gone off the rails. This was suppose to be the "all encompassing DW4 good plays". The OP created this thread as the one friendly space where we could all agree that was a good play, observation or stat by Watson.

I lost track. What good plays are we discussing today?
 
Earl34 said:
This thread has really gone off the rails. This was suppose to be the "all encompassing DW4 good plays". The OP created this thread as the one friendly space where we could all agree that was a good play, observation or stat by Watson.

I lost track. What good plays are we discussing today?
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Here's a good play.

Alot of people question, "How many sacks are actually on Watson?" (implying he holds on the ball too long). I agree some sacks are on Watson, but also have to factor in how many sacks did Watson save?

This play is 3rd & 8. As usual, the OL gets fooled on who is actually rushing the passer, so we have three guys blocking no one. No receiver is open, but Watson is able to evade the sack and throw the ball away.

screencast 2020-12-09 11-18-43.gif
 
dream_team said:
Here's a good play.

Alot of people question, "How many sacks are actually on Watson?" (implying he holds on the ball too long). I agree some sacks are on Watson, but also have to factor in how many sacks did Watson save?

This play is 3rd & 8. As usual, the OL gets fooled on who is actually rushing the passer, so we have three guys blocking no one. No receiver is open, but Watson is able to evade the sack and throw the ball away.

View attachment 7172
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Nice play - two things...

I don't know of anyone that would argue his escapability isn't one of his greatest assets (OK maybe a couple), just unreal what he gets out of sometimes...

and 2

If you can ever get the Texans oline to play...

1607553390951.png

For $100 dollar bills, do it! They can't follow moving/switching objects to save their lives (or in this case Watsons life).
 
dream_team said:
Here's a good play.

Alot of people question, "How many sacks are actually on Watson?" (implying he holds on the ball too long). I agree some sacks are on Watson, but also have to factor in how many sacks did Watson save?

This play is 3rd & 8. As usual, the OL gets fooled on who is actually rushing the passer, so we have three guys blocking no one. No receiver is open, but Watson is able to evade the sack and throw the ball away.

View attachment 7172
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Looks like a facemask to me.
 
dream_team said:
Here's a good play.

Alot of people question, "How many sacks are actually on Watson?" (implying he holds on the ball too long). I agree some sacks are on Watson, but also have to factor in how many sacks did Watson save?

This play is 3rd & 8. As usual, the OL gets fooled on who is actually rushing the passer, so we have three guys blocking no one. No receiver is open, but Watson is able to evade the sack and throw the ball away.

View attachment 7172
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Finally, Martin keeps his man in front of him. Finally earning that green.
 
dream_team said:
Here's a good play.

Alot of people question, "How many sacks are actually on Watson?" (implying he holds on the ball too long). I agree some sacks are on Watson, but also have to factor in how many sacks did Watson save?

This play is 3rd & 8. As usual, the OL gets fooled on who is actually rushing the passer, so we have three guys blocking no one. No receiver is open, but Watson is able to evade the sack and throw the ball away.

View attachment 7172
Click to expand...

I've always wondered if there's a way to quantify this. I'm sure it's possible. Just hard. Watson will sometimes leave the pocket and take a sack in a situation where a more seasoned vet like Brady would have cut his losses and thrown it away. But Watson will also avoid a sack and hit on a big play in situations where a traditional pocket passer would have most certainly taken a sack for a huge loss. I don't think there's any other QB in the NFL who could have dodged 3 pass rushers and thrown that bomb on 3rd down. And that amazing play against KC his rookie season where the rusher goes for the strip sack and Watson switches the ball to his left hand, steps up in the pocket, and then uncorks a TD bomb was amazing. I don't think I've seen anyone do that before either.
 
This play is crazy. No one else is doing this. Not Mahomes. Not Rodgers. Definitely not Brees. This is what makes Watson unique. Keep in mind that the situation is a 3rd and 11 with 3:25 left in the game on the HOU 44 yard line. So a short dump off to the RB coming out of the backfield would have been pointless.

 
Can someone make this make sense? First screenshot is immediately before the snap. The announcer says "He's got one on one up top" with Hopkins and circles it. The second screenshot is post-snap. It is laughable. In a situation where the pass has to come out hot and fast, Duane Brown is double-teaming an interior lineman, and leaving the edge rusher unblocked. Instead, it's Griffin's responsibility to come halfway across the formation and block the edge rusher. Of course, Griffin is way too late and ends up on his belly while the rusher gets to Watson, but Watson spins out of hit and hits Lamar Miller in the end zone.

I wonder what was said about this play during the Monday film session. Was Watson, a rookie, supposed to change the protection? Was the center? I can't really fault Griffin for getting there late because those pass rushers are really fast and he's not in a good position to make the block from the break.

Screen Shot 2020-12-10 at 10.14.06 AM.pngScreen Shot 2020-12-10 at 10.23.06 AM.png
 
ClemsonTexan said:
Can someone make this make sense? First screenshot is immediately before the snap. The announcer says "He's got one on one up top" with Hopkins and circles it. The second screenshot is post-snap. It is laughable. In a situation where the pass has to come out hot and fast, Duane Brown is double-teaming an interior lineman, and leaving the edge rusher unblocked. Instead, it's Griffin's responsibility to come halfway across the formation and block the edge rusher. Of course, Griffin is way too late and ends up on his belly while the rusher gets to Watson, but Watson spins out of hit and hits Lamar Miller in the end zone.

I wonder what was said about this play during the Monday film session. Was Watson, a rookie, supposed to change the protection? Was the center? I can't really fault Griffin for getting there late because those pass rushers are really fast and he's not in a good position to make the block from the break.
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This is another "feature" of this blocking scheme. TEs coming across the formation to block a defender and missing the block. It's been happening since BOB's first game and it continues every season.
 
ClemsonTexan said:
I've always wondered if there's a way to quantify this. I'm sure it's possible. Just hard. Watson will sometimes leave the pocket and take a sack in a situation where a more seasoned vet like Brady would have cut his losses and thrown it away. But Watson will also avoid a sack and hit on a big play in situations where a traditional pocket passer would have most certainly taken a sack for a huge loss. I don't think there's any other QB in the NFL who could have dodged 3 pass rushers and thrown that bomb on 3rd down. And that amazing play against KC his rookie season where the rusher goes for the strip sack and Watson switches the ball to his left hand, steps up in the pocket, and then uncorks a TD bomb was amazing. I don't think I've seen anyone do that before either.
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Doesn't exactly quantify it, but it's damn fun to watch it..

 
Earl34 said:
This is classic Watson. While watching this play, once he rolls out, I was shouting "Duke is open underneath". Then he goes deep to Coutee and I said, "great play". My point? Watson walks a fine line between always taking the safe, short throw and risks of going downfield.

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Did I see that right?

Looks like Duke gets out into the pattern after Watson is bobbing & weaving.

That's not the same as what has been criticized, that the check down is there, he passes on it, then gets in trouble.

In those instances we're saying the OL held up enough for the shorter routes.

On this play, the protection broke down even before the check down was available.
 
thunderkyss said:
Did I see that right?

Looks like Duke gets out into the pattern after Watson is bobbing & weaving.

That's not the same as what has been criticized, that the check down is there, he passes on it, then gets in trouble.

In those instances we're saying the OL held up enough for the shorter routes.

On this play, the protection broke down even before the check down was available.
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This is the Watson good plays safe space .... we might want to take this discussion elsewhere ...LoL.
 
thunderkyss said:
Did I see that right?

Looks like Duke gets out into the pattern after Watson is bobbing & weaving.

That's not the same as what has been criticized, that the check down is there, he passes on it, then gets in trouble.

In those instances we're saying the OL held up enough for the shorter routes.

On this play, the protection broke down even before the check down was available.
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Yes. Agree. If you stop at the 4 second mark, Duke clears the LOS, but Watson already saw Coutee deep. That was my point. After escaping that terrible blocking, if he was just looking to check down, he would have missed a wide open Coutee. It's a balancing act.
 
Earl34 said:
Yes. Agree. If you stop at the 4 second mark, Duke clears the LOS, but Watson already saw Coutee deep. That was my point. After escaping that terrible blocking, if he was just looking to check down, he would have missed a wide open Coutee. It's a balancing act.
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Except the blocking wasn't "terrible" it was more than adequate - Its always going to break down over time and that's exactly what happens on that play , he brings the pressure on himself.

The end result is great .... this time.

We're watching a modern day version of .... Brett Favre.
 
Corrosion said:
Except the blocking wasn't "terrible" it was more than adequate - Its always going to break down over time and that's exactly what happens on that play , he brings the pressure on himself.
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Are we watching the same play? The one we're talking about here, there is no time. The line did not pick up the blitz. Duke is still looking for someone to block as DW4 is shrugging off defenders.
 
thunderkyss said:
Are we watching the same play? The one we're talking about here, there is no time. The line did not pick up the blitz. Duke is still looking for someone to block as DW4 is shrugging off defenders.
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Probably not , I didn't click the image , I thought we were talking about the one @Earl34 posted in that 6 play collage.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think the word was that he hadn't played well. To those who hold that belief, big numbers won't necessarily change their minds.
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Yeah , he's going to put up numbers .... with this defense they are going to play from behind which means throwing it and they have no running game which means throwing it.

Numbers aint everything .... well , one number is and that's the W column.

And I'm not really saying he hasn't played well - I'm saying "He can play better" , and that should scare the hell out of opponents.
 
dream_team said:
This season he is at 280 / 28. Dare I say, he's improving?
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Speedy said:
Or 295 yards per game. At least get the numbers right if you're going to use them.
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I just went with the numbers @JB posted 12,000 & 1500 / 50 = 240 & 30.

That 240 passing figure seems to set the bar low ... but it excludes everyone but Watson.

The rushing yards on the other hand .... How many QB's have averaged 30 rushing yards a game for a season much less a career ? That's a pretty short list and almost all of them are relatively recent - Michael Vick being the earliest one I can think of - Cam , Watson , Wilson , Jackson , Josh Allen and none of them qualify on passing yards. I'm sure there might be a few others but the list is short.

Steve McNair who was known for running / scrambling averaged 22 and change , Steve Young 25.1.
 
Corrosion said:
How many QB's have averaged 30 rushing yards a game for a season much less a career ? That's a pretty short list and almost all of them are relatively recent - Michael Vick being the earliest one I can think of
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Randall Cunningham averaged 30.6 rushing yards/game from 1985-2001. Only in 2 seasons did he average over 240 passing yards/game.

Kyler Murray is close to being on pace after 28 games. 239.6 passing yards/game to go with 43.2 rushing yards/game. A couple of QBs in the upcoming draft (Lawrence and Fields) should put up those numbers. Dual threat QBs are the new normal.
 
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Corrosion said:
I just went with the numbers @JB posted 12,000 & 1500 / 50 = 240 & 30.

That 240 passing figure seems to set the bar low ... but it excludes everyone but Watson.

The rushing yards on the other hand .... How many QB's have averaged 30 rushing yards a game for a season much less a career ? That's a pretty short list and almost all of them are relatively recent - Michael Vick being the earliest one I can think of - Cam , Watson , Wilson , Jackson , Josh Allen and none of them qualify on passing yards. I'm sure there might be a few others but the list is short.

Steve McNair who was known for running / scrambling averaged 22 and change , Steve Young 25.1.
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Randall Cunningham hits the 30 y/g mark but is at like 186 y/g passing for his career. Not too shabby for the era he played in.
 
Lucky said:
Randall Cunningham averaged 30.6 rushing yards/game from 1985-2001. Only in 2 seasons did he average over 240 passing yards/game.

Kyler Murray is close to being on pace after 28 games. 239.6 passing yards/game to go with 43.2 rushing yards/game. A couple of QBs in the upcoming draft (Lawrence and Fields) should put up those numbers. Dual threat QBs are the new normal.
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DocBar said:
Randall Cunningham hits the 30 y/g mark but is at like 186 y/g passing for his career. Not too shabby for the era he played in.
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I had completely forgotten about him ....
 
Corrosion said:
I just went with the numbers @JB posted 12,000 & 1500 / 50 = 240 & 30.

That 240 passing figure seems to set the bar low ... but it excludes everyone but Watson.

The rushing yards on the other hand .... How many QB's have averaged 30 rushing yards a game for a season much less a career ? That's a pretty short list and almost all of them are relatively recent - Michael Vick being the earliest one I can think of - Cam , Watson , Wilson , Jackson , Josh Allen and none of them qualify on passing yards. I'm sure there might be a few others but the list is short.

Steve McNair who was known for running / scrambling averaged 22 and change , Steve Young 25.1.
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#'s are actually a bit higher...
265.16 for 13,258
31.28 for 1564
 
steelbtexan said:
Cunningham couldn't even make a SB with the most talented offense that I've seen in my lifetime.
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I don't see their offense being more talented than that era's 49ers, Bills & Cowboys. Plus, whatever talent they had on offense (Cris Carter, Keith Jackson & Cunningham) didn't stand much of a chance w/Buddy Ryan dictating things.

That defense and special teams though...


*Charlie Garner was 4yrs too late to help
 
Boris said:
I don't see their offense being more talented than that era's 49ers, Bills & Cowboys. Plus, whatever talent they had on offense (Cris Carter, Keith Jackson & Cunningham) didn't stand much of a chance w/Buddy Ryan dictating things.

That defense and special teams though...


*Charlie Garner was 4yrs too late to help
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I was talking about the Moss/Carter/Reed/Robert Smith Vikings team.
 
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