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Watson’s a top 5 qb. Do you agree?

Earl34 said:
Exactly. I could see if the play call was a three step drop. But it wasn't.
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But it doesn't matter. Don't you know it is the QB's job to keep his eyes downfield AND keep his eyes on the offensive line simultaneously to make sure they are blocking adequately? It's also the QB's job to let that puppy fly on the 4th step of a 5 step drop even if you've drilled a 5 step drop plus hitch 10,000 times. Because as we all know, throwing a pass off your back foot with your weight moving backwards is always a recipe for success in this game. It's the one of the core fundamentals of the QB position.
 
ftw.usatoday.com

Deshaun Watson's QB coach explains how the Texans star managed to get better even as his team fell apart

Houston has actually asked Watson to do more … and he has thrived.
ftw.usatoday.com ftw.usatoday.com

Watson hasn’t just developed into a pocket passer. He’s developed into an elite pocket passer while still providing that second threat (his running ability) that every team is looking for in a quarterback. That combination is rare, and it allows him to not just get the most out of what’s around him — which is hard enough for a lot of quarterbacks — but he’s actually elevating it. Avery explained:

“They’re not creating a bunch of situations where people are just open and he’s benefitting from the play-calling being so great. He’s able to quickly diagnose things [without that schematic help]. You see him have to diagnose things and have to create plays within the pocket. He does everything you ask a quarterback to do and you don’t see those other guys — those system guys — do anything outside of what the offense is asking them to do.”
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ClemsonTexan said:
But it doesn't matter. Don't you know it is the QB's job to keep his eyes downfield AND keep his eyes on the offensive line simultaneously to make sure they are blocking adequately? It's also the QB's job to let that puppy fly on the 4th step of a 5 step drop even if you've drilled a 5 step drop plus hitch 10,000 times. Because as we all know, throwing a pass off your back foot with your weight moving backwards is always a recipe for success in this game. It's the one of the core fundamentals of the QB position.
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We’ve been down this rabbit hole for a few years now. Again welcome to the dark hole, it’s pretty dark in here. Especially when it comes to Watson. :jail::faildetector::cjeremy635:
There’s a lot of heavy lifting required down here. Lol
 
steelbtexan said:
Because these are the weaknesses that he really needs to improve upon. It hasn't happened in 4 years and counting.
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Disclaimer: I do not believe this. I think Watson has got a lot better in very little time with bad coaching. What he's done in his short career is pretty amazing.

He still needs to improve on a lot, but the kid is giving us 110% every game & it's a pretty good 110%.
 
thunderkyss said:
Disclaimer: I do not believe this. I think Watson has got a lot better in very little time with bad coaching. What he's done in his short career is pretty amazing.

He still needs to improve on a lot, but the kid is giving us 110% every game & it's a pretty good 110%.
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Good stuff. I remember you saying you will join the bright side if he didn’t give 110%. I’m glad you’re staying on the dark side. Even though we’re even keeled on this side of the spectrum, it gets pretty dark.
 
Earl34 said:
Look at his right leg in the screenshot. Is he in position to throw that ball?
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No, he's in no position to throw the ball at that moment. That's not the point of the screen shot. The screen shot shows he has an open receiver very quickly. Before there is pressure on him. That screen shot is just to say, don't tell me he didn't have an open receiver. I still say, watch the video.

There is time for him to go through his drop, gather, hitch & throw. If you disagree... that's fine. But I know I've seen many a QB in that situation get the ball out while taking a hit. & those QBs are generally applauded for their toughness when they do.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Good stuff. I remember you saying you will join the bright side if he didn’t give 110%. I’m glad you’re staying on the dark side. Even though we’re even keeled on this side of the spectrum, it gets pretty dark.
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I said it's time for him to do whatever it takes. & so far, yes. He's been doing whatever it takes. Just because I think he can do better on a handful of plays doesn't mean I think he's a crap QB.
 
amazing80 said:
So we're gonna lament Watson for one play when his OL failed, but ignore the rest of the game where he carried the team? Yeah, no QB is perfect for an entire game. He had a few plays where he could do better, but that is every QB in every game, throughout NFL history. That's why no QB has ever played a perfect game. Watson is literally the least of our worries, but he is the most scrutinized player on this forum. If you expect Watson to be perfect every game and every play, you should just stop watching football.
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You are missing the point , this isn't about a single play - that was just used as an example to show that he's passing on those short throws.

There were at least 9 occasions yesterday where he passed on those layups and was then under pressure as a result - Some of those turned into bigger gains , others turned into sacks and net zero plays.

If he changes the result of one or two of those 9 , it can change the course of the entire game / outcome.

Watson is Brett Favre with wheels. A risk taker. Hella fun to watch .... but can drive you nucking futz.
 
Corrosion said:
You are missing the point , this isn't about a single play - that was just used as an example to show that he's passing on those short throws.

There were at least 9 occasions yesterday where he passed on those layups and was then under pressure as a result - Some of those turned into bigger gains , others turned into sacks and net zero plays.

If he changes the result of one or two of those 9 , it can change the course of the entire game / outcome.

Watson is Brett Favre with wheels. A risk taker. Hella fun to watch .... but can drive you nucking futz.
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It shouldn't drive you crazy, everyone should know what to expect. You get a top-level QB who will push the ball downfield. Watson took plenty of opportunities yesterday with short throws. You just choose to ignore them
 
thunderkyss said:
No, he's in no position to throw the ball at that moment. That's not the point of the screen shot. The screen shot shows he has an open receiver very quickly. Before there is pressure on him. That screen shot is just to say, don't tell me he didn't have an open receiver. I still say, watch the video.

There is time for him to go through his drop, gather, hitch & throw. If you disagree... that's fine. But I know I've seen many a QB in that situation get the ball out while taking a hit. & those QBs are generally applauded for their toughness when they do.
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And I’m pretty sure those same quarterbacks missed on those type of situation as well. Man that process sometimes can be extremely fast in the heat of the moment. Something we arm chair experts will pick apart because we’re not on the actual battlefield.

No pun intended.
 
amazing80 said:
It shouldn't drive you crazy, everyone should know what to expect. You get a top-level QB who will push the ball downfield. Watson took plenty of opportunities yesterday with short throws. You just choose to ignore them
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Brother he’s in the top 3 with those short passes. This has been posted but like you just stated, that stat is being ignored. Why is the million dollar question ?
 
thunderkyss said:
I said it's time for him to do whatever it takes. & so far, yes. He's been doing whatever it takes. Just because I think he can do better on a handful of plays doesn't mean I think he's a crap QB.
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Big timer that could be said about every player out there. Even the greats can improve on some of their mistakes in every single game. Did you watch the Chiefs game last night? Mahomas made some great plays as well some bad ones.
 
thunderkyss said:
No, he's in no position to throw the ball at that moment. That's not the point of the screen shot. The screen shot shows he has an open receiver very quickly. Before there is pressure on him. That screen shot is just to say, don't tell me he didn't have an open receiver. I still say, watch the video.
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We've watched the video. Where do you think my screenshots came from? It doesn't matter how quickly Akins came open. No QB even at the HS level is going to throw a ball before the play calls for him to.

thunderkyss said:
There is time for him to go through his drop, gather, hitch & throw. If you disagree... that's fine. But I know I've seen many a QB in that situation get the ball out while taking a hit. & those QBs are generally applauded for their toughness when they do.
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And as I said uphtread, I disagree. I posted three distinct screenshots all within the same second. On the "onetwo" of his hitch, he only gets to "one" and eats the sack. You could argue all day that he should have tried to throw it anyway while completely dismissing all of the potential negative ramifications of that decision. What if he did it your way and the ball got batted into the air for it to float down into the waiting hands of a defensive tackle?

And I think you're mixing up two very different situations. The first is where a QB knows where the pressure is coming from, accounts for that expected pressure and "hangs tough" in the pocket to complete a throw. The second is where the pressure is unexpected because a lineman either gets beat one on one or an assignment gets blown. No QB expects a defensive end to explode through the A-gap on a 5-step drop. That's why the commentator in the video said "that surprised Watson" because, again, no QB expects a DE to be in the backfield so quickly on a 5-step drop. When a blocking assignment gets missed, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Manning, Montana, Mahomes, Elway, etc. all end up getting sacked. I'm not sure why anyone would be astonished when a similar result ensues here.
 
Man, all this grief over a ducking touchback sack. How about Fairbairn missing another FG that he had no reason missing....negates the TB and adds +1. Martin's horrible snap blew another 6 or 7 points at the end of the game......unfortunately, that 1 point lead would've been in the hands of the defense to protect, anyone feel comfortable with that knowing this defense' ability to protect leads?
 
And I really resent the notion that Watson was afraid to stand tall in the pocket and take a hit, especially coming from keyboard warriors. How ridiculous does it sound saying that Watson both holds on to the ball too long, "wants it all" and plays "hero ball" while also saying that he's chicken and didn't "nutt up" to make a big throw in that situation? So he's a hero and a coward at the same time? Got it.

It was also mentioned that Watson should have scooped up the botched snap yesterday. So the man literally can't win with some posters.
 
Well for me...

Why did I comment on this particular play?
Because it was the play being discussed.

Why did I focus just on Watson?
Well because of the things that went wrong, Watson is the only player I have any hope for next year - hopefully Martin and Fulton are backups on a different team in 2021.

Watson was the only (offensive) reason we had any shot to win this game - the defense deserves some credit for stopping the bleeding at 24 points and Watt looked pretty good yesterday.

Who honestly expected to win this game yesterday? Or even for it to be close? Name five starters on the Texans you would keep over their counterpart from the Colts...

1. Watson
2. Tunsil (because the Indy starters were hurt)
3. Reid? - we talking previous years Reid or 2020 Reid, the 2020 version has been coached into can't tackle for crap with an occasional good play
4. Cunningham? - over Leonard... please no
5. Watt? - for sentimental reasons and he still brings it sometimes

Are you honestly telling me that you have never seen a QB chuck the ball at the blocking RB's feet to avoid a sack? Do you need to have your feet set to do so?

Definitely not placing the blame for the loss on Watson, definitely not saying these two plays are why the team lost. But it's ridiculous to be so zealous in you Watson defense that people can't discuss "hey, he could have done X" without it turning into "OMG these guys just hate Watson, it's not his fault, the whole team sucks" you look just like the posters that blame Watson for everything and think he'll never and/or can't improve.
 
FuzzyLogic said:
But it's ridiculous to be so zealous in you Watson defense that people can't discuss "hey, he could have done X" without it turning into "OMG these guys just hate Watson, it's not his fault, the whole team sucks" you look just like the posters that blame Watson for everything and think he'll never and/or can't improve.
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It's not about being zealous. It's rightly pointing out invalid criticism and ridiculous second-guessing.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Man, all this grief over a ducking touchback sack. How about Fairbairn missing another FG that he had no reason missing....negates the TB and adds +1. Martin's horrible snap blew another 6 or 7 points at the end of the game......unfortunately, that 1 point lead would've been in the hands of the defense to protect, anyone feel comfortable with that knowing this defense' ability to protect leads?
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And don't forget the WTF timeouts in the 1st half, that forced them into the decision to kick a FG on 3rd down with 8 seconds left, instead of taking another shot at the end zone. Watson has got to know better than that.
 
Why take it as 'invalid criticism' or ridiculous second-guessing? I get that for a few... A FEW... posters on here that is what it is, an "I told you so moment"...

For others it is an interesting play of the game and discussing what could have gone differently - sure we could discuss how either Martin or Fulton could have just done their damn jobs and we wouldn't be having this discussion - but that's a given and not really interesting to talk about, since it's almost unanimous across the forum that Martin and Fulton shouldn't be starting.

So we talk about Watson and hypotheticals to pass the time - I don't, in particular, think Watson did anything wrong on the play but we are discussing what could he, our star, our most talented player, might have done - is it slightly unfair? Probably but hey that comes with being the QB... even Watson knows that and says I should have done X better instead of just being honest in the post-game and saying 'yeah Martin sucks' - that leadership thing that some have posted he doesn't have...

Long-winded way to say - not everyone who posts or discusses a particular play thinks Watson sucks...
 
Speedy said:
And don't forget the WTF timeouts in the 1st half, that forced them into the decision to kick a FG on 3rd down with 8 seconds left, instead of taking another shot at the end zone. Watson has got to know better than that.
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I also blame Watson for that INT that got ripped away from Cooks. Was Watson not in the weight room supervising his lifting regimen? Does he even lift, bro? Watson has got to do better than that.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Man, all this grief over a ducking touchback sack. How about Fairbairn missing another FG that he had no reason missing....negates the TB and adds +1. Martin's horrible snap blew another 6 or 7 points at the end of the game......unfortunately, that 1 point lead would've been in the hands of the defense to protect, anyone feel comfortable with that knowing this defense' ability to protect leads?
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What could Fair B done better on that missed FG? Was the lace point in the right direction? Did the long snapper hick it right? The placeholder put it down correctly? It had the right distance but was hooked badly. Fair did get a raise so that should’ve been money.

Watson is the main attraction here so we’re not going to elaborate in depth about the other players flaws. Lol
 
ClemsonTexan said:
It's not about being zealous. It's rightly pointing out invalid criticism and ridiculous second-guessing.
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I actually feel the same way for the most part. Some of us don't like the way he approaches the game on a fundamental level. & that's ok. I'd prefer they say that instead of saying it is a fault.

I mean there will be times when Watson is checking it down on the regular. He's ranked pretty high among check down QBs.

But it is what it is & this is the way he plays the game. However, he's cut down quite a bit on negative plays.

It's valid criticism. But it's not about his ability.

I think if his feet are in the endzone he should approach the game a lot differently than what we saw yesterday. I think there should have been more urgency. I think there was a play to be made there to avoid the sack.

At the same time there was a lot of whodiniism throughout the game that I was glad to see. He's special.

But taking that safety makes him look more Dan Orlovsky special than Russell Wilson special.
 
ClemsonTexan said:
I also blame Watson for that INT that got ripped away from Cooks. Was Watson not in the weight room supervising his lifting regimen? Does he even lift, bro? Watson has got to do better than that.
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While Cook was stretched out clearly out of it. Watson should’ve ran over there to him and got on his ash for allowing that defender to take the ball from him.
Leadership 101
 
thunderkyss said:
I actually feel the same way for the most part. Some of us don't like the way he approaches the game on a fundamental level. & that's ok. I'd prefer they say that instead of saying it is a fault.

I mean there will be times when Watson is checking it down on the regular. He's ranked pretty high among check down QBs.

But it is what it is & this is the way he plays the game. However, he's cut down quite a bit on negative plays.

It's valid criticism. But it's not about his ability.

I think if his feet are in the endzone he should approach the game a lot differently than what we saw yesterday. I think there should have been more urgency. I think there was a play to be made there to avoid the sack.

At the same time there was a lot of whodiniism throughout the game that I was glad to see. He's special.

But taking that safety makes him look more Dan Orlovsky special than Russell Wilson special.
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What a chump Wilson is. Taking a safety there
 
FuzzyLogic said:
Why take it as 'invalid criticism' or ridiculous second-guessing? I get that for a few... A FEW... posters on here that is what it is, an "I told you so moment"...
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It's ridiculous second-guessing for two reasons. One relates to the play call itself. Even with the benefit of hindsight, there's not much to hate about the play call since it did in fact spring Akins open. The only reason to say that it should have not been called is because we know it didn't work.

The second relates to Watson's performance in the pocket on that specific play. The criticism is that he should have stood tall and delivered a strike notwithstanding a DE bearing down on him. After all, the greats do this all the time, right? The only problem is that the greats almost never do this under the same circumstances. This wasn't a situation like the 4th and 3 in KC where Watson knows the blitz is coming. In that situation, it's only a matter of (a) knowing where the blitz is coming from and (b) getting the ball out on time. This was a situation where Watson is not expecting a DE to come barreling into him in the end zone at the top of his drop. Almost universally, a QB takes a sack in that situation. The irony here is that Watson is the best QB in the NFL when it comes to evading pressure that really shouldn't be in his face to begin with.

It's also a bit ridiculous because the alternative could have been far worse than the actual result. What if Watson took that second hitch step, got blasted, and the ball flew 10 yards past his intended target and got intercepted? It's all nitpicky second-guessing. It's not plain error where a QB makes a mistake no coach or offensive coordinator would consider reasonable.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Man, all this grief over a ducking touchback sack. How about Fairbairn missing another FG that he had no reason missing....negates the TB and adds +1. Martin's horrible snap blew another 6 or 7 points at the end of the game......unfortunately, that 1 point lead would've been in the hands of the defense to protect, anyone feel comfortable with that knowing this defense' ability to protect leads?
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That wasn't a chip shot FG
 
thunderkyss said:
I think there should have been more urgency. I think there was a play to be made there to avoid the sack.
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I guess. I don't really think so. I mean, why do QBs ever get sacked? Why do they ever take safeties? Even the great Aaron Rodgers has taken his fair share of safeties. The only way to fairly evaluate Watson in this situation is to examine how QBs have performed in similar circumstances. That is, does Rodgers somehow get the ball out on critical 3rd downs when a lineman has completely whiffed an assignment and a defensive end is able to make a straight path towards him on a play that requires him to drop back 5 steps.

In most of the clips I've seen, when a pass rusher goes unblocked, the result is typically a sack no matter what the QB's options were.
 
Quick question:

What if Watson did stand tall in the pocket on that play, took the massive hit and gotten injured badly . Let’s say some fractured ribs or something that would’ve sidelined him for the remainder of the season. What would you gents say then? Why didn’t he protect himself right? He’s too injury prone! Hero ball!
 
FuzzyLogic said:
OK, sure... discussing football plays on a football forum is ridiculous, got it.
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You can discuss football plays on a football forum and still sound ridiculous. You could also go to Inside Hoops and argue that the Bulls wouldn't have even needed Jordan's last second heroics in Game 6 of the Finals had he shot 35/35 instead of 15/35. In that case, you would be discussing basketball in a basketball forum. Doesn't make the point any less ridiculous.
 
ClemsonTexan said:
I guess. I don't really think so. I mean, why do QBs ever get sacked? Why do they ever take safeties? Even the great Aaron Rodgers has taken his fair share of safeties. The only way to fairly evaluate Watson in this situation is to examine how QBs have performed in similar circumstances. That is, does Rodgers somehow get the ball out on critical 3rd downs when a lineman has completely whiffed an assignment and a defensive end is able to make a straight path towards him on a play that requires him to drop back 5 steps.

In most of the clips I've seen, when a pass rusher goes unblocked, the result is typically a sack no matter what the QB's options were.
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Nobody's interested in fairly evaluate him. This is a case where they see every play Watson makes and they come in with the 'he's no Aaron Rodgers' (and he's not BTW), who they don't see every play of and the open receivers he misses and bad throws he makes every game. How dare you pop their bubbles telling them Rodgers gets sacked and takes safeties.
 
Speedy said:
Nobody's interested in fairly evaluate him. This is a case where they see every play Watson makes and they come in with the 'he's no Aaron Rodgers' (and he's not BTW), who they don't see every play of and the open receivers he misses and bad throws he makes every game. How dare you pop their bubbles telling them Rodgers gets sacked and takes safeties.
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I'm just waiting for someone to post an example of a play that doesn't result in a sack when a defensive player goes completely unblocked. This was the only one I could find.

 
Texansballer74 said:
Quick question:

What if Watson did stand tall in the pocket on that play, took the massive hit and gotten injured badly . Let’s say some fractured ribs or something that would’ve sidelined him for the remainder of the season. What would you gents say then? Why didn’t he protect himself right? He’s too injury prone! Hero ball!
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If we're playing what ifs, what would you say if he threw the ball to the TE & he took it all the way for a TD?
 
thunderkyss said:
If we're playing what ifs, what would you say if he threw the ball to the TE & he took it all the way for a TD?
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Then some of y’all wouldn’t be complaining or extra critical. And we wouldn’t be defending.

But thanks for playing along. I guess we can’t ask these type of questions on a sports forum without some backlash.
 
NINE TIMES...

Only 9 times in Houston Texans history have two players had over 100 yards in the same game. Who exactly are these receivers?
  • 6th stringer (at the beginning of the season) Keke Coutee
  • Practice squad player Chad Hansen
Oh, they must have been playing the Jags (or some other weak defense)? Nope, this was against of the best defenses in the league.

Watson's game was outstanding, considering the tools he had to work with.
 
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