KoolAid Sipper
AFCEVET
LMAO @white BOB...I know it's a typo but still funny
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- Thread starter badboy
- Start date
Due to 51-7, we forget they did score on the first drive of the Chiefs game. However, 30 regular season games without an opening TD is unacceptable. In those 30 games, can anyone remember a start of a game and you saw a different approach? For example, like starting the game and passing to setup the run or getting Watson involved in the running game early or starting the game with the quick passing game or a FB or other personnel groupings to jump start the offense? How about a "sugar" huddle to start the game? If you can't remember BOB doing anything different to jump start the offense, then was it arrogance or incompetence on his part?
As far as the history of the poor 1st quarter performances of O'Brien's offense. Even with Kelly, I can recall taking an early deep shot in one game after BOB was fired. Otherwise, I have not seen any differences between his 1st quarter play calling and BOB's. So, why are we expecting a different outcome? Because of a franchise QB? Here are the 1st quarter scoring rankings under O'Brien:
2014 (16th), 2015 (24th), 2016 (27th), 2017 (13th), 2018 (8th), 2019 (21st), 2020 (31st).
Personally, I think Sean Ryan did a great job as QB coach and it's no coincidence that the two best 1st quarter rankings were with him as QB coach from 2017-2018. So, my question is what metric is needed to realize that there is something fundamentally wrong with O'Brien's implementation, approach or coaching of this offense?
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/1st-quarter-points-per-game?date=2020-11-08
I think you underestimate the objectivity of posters on this forum who think O'Brien's scheme and coaching played a significant part on Watson and this offense. I would say they are more open minded and willing to change their opinion than the posters who never wanted Watson drafted and have already labelled him a bust.
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maverick512000
Hall of Fame
If we had a top O line I would want him to actually run it more. Watson’s strength isn’t in the passing game, it wasn’t at Clemson and it isn’t now. Go back @bd look at his official combine and draft reports on NFL.com and they list the same weaknesses we see now. That’s not to say he’s a bad passer, I personally think he is a better passer that say Jackson, but he is far from a laser accurate pocket passer.
A top line could both protect him when he is passing and be ready to protect him if he runs. That’s what makes a duel threat QB scary to defend against because you have to flip a coin as to which you think he will do on any given play and if you guess wrong he just hung another 15+ yards on you.
As it is all defenses are having to do is rush Watson and defend against the pass which with this team both are easy to do.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
You’re kidding right? First no one has said that Watson is already a bust though not sure what you mean by “already” seeing as he has been in the NFL 4 years now and usually 2 is about how long they give an NFL QB. Look at Trubisky and Mayfield.
Second no one has said scheme hasn’t played a role in this but the Watson defenders are convinced he is the greatest QB to ever play the game if only he was on another team. In the last 4 years we have had statements like “Watson is going to make OB a HoF coach.” and statements implying that he is the only one on the team that cares about winning. Hell for some our salary cap strategy is that Watson will renegotiate his contract to help the team.
Even now that OB has been gone and we are seeing the exact same thing the argument has been “well you can’t expect it to change over night and he is stuck with the same scheme OB left.” Why! Kelly has no power and is gone soon as a new HC is hired so Watson could basically make himself OC and Cal would go along with it. If Watson was handcuffed all these years just by OB then why are the cuffs still on when he has been given the key and an entire team to help take them off.
So no I don’t buy the “they are more open minded and willing to change” line because they have dug in their heels and drawn their lines every bit as much they accused the “OB defenders” and “Watson haters” posters and at the end of the day Texans still suck.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
There is one particular member that does label DW4 as a bust and thinks the Texans should have already moved on from him. He keeps talking about it and does a great job at riling up the Watson defenders crowd.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Because they can’t see he’s playing them like a fiddle and laughing the whole time.
KoolAid Sipper
AFCEVET
Sit back and take look at what you're saying. To me, you make it seem like Watson now has a whole new playbook, all new personnel and authority over coaches. Even if Crennel and Kelly are lame ducks they are still the coaches and must look at a picture bigger than a QB's view. By no means is this absolving Watson of his flaws or performance, just my perspective on the bolded.
You can't be serious about his passing game not being a strength.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Go back and look at his scouting report, if you can find it. His weaknesses were the deep ball and his habit of floating a pass. It’s been talked about that Dabo cut the field in half so that it forced Watson to make short passes. That much talked about 2017 season OB did the same thing, why he never did it again hell if I know but yes his passing game, while good, is not his greatest strength.
I can’t find the actual NFL one any more, figure they remove it to replace with player stats once they are drafted, but this is pretty close to what I remember it saying.
PFF scouting report: Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF
The PFF analysis team breaks down the prospects of former Clemson quarterback and national champion Deshaun Watson.
badboy
Hall of Fame
You have not been watching? I may not know what it is but I know when I see it.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
RAC doesn’t even remember the offense side of the ball exists, though lately I’m not sure he remembers the defense side does as well. As for Kelly are you arguing that a first time OC with a 1-6 record and an offense that does good to get over the 50 yard line has more say than the franchise QB on what plays are being called and what scheme is being used?
If so that’s fine because at the end of the day it’s not Watson’s job to be the OC but if so let’s stop all this talk about how great his offensive mind. Because even if it is true it’s useless if he’s not willing to use it and is content to sit back and watch the crapfest we have been seeing. When OB was here I could understand as it’s called giving someone enough rope to hang themselves but with him gone if winning is all Watson cares about then time to step up and show just how good you really are.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I'm pretty sure you meant and 'while BOB'.. not white BOB'?
theCATALYST
Football Messiah
Go back and look at his scouting report, if you can find it. His weaknesses were the deep ball and his habit of floating a pass. It’s been talked about that Dabo cut the field in half so that it forced Watson to make short passes. That much talked about 2017 season OB did the same thing, why he never did it again hell if I know but yes his passing game, while good, is not his greatest strength.
I can’t find the actual NFL one any more, figure they remove it to replace with player stats once they are drafted, but this is pretty close to what I remember it saying.
PFF scouting report: Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF
The PFF analysis team breaks down the prospects of former Clemson quarterback and national champion Deshaun Watson.www.pff.com
AHEM.
Deshaun Watson Ranks Sixth Among NFL's Best Deep Passers
Former Clemson star and Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson ranked sixth in the NFL in a deep-passing metric, showing improvement from one of the weaknesses draft pundits didn't like in 2017.
www.si.com
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
AHEM.
Deshaun Watson Ranks Sixth Among NFL's Best Deep Passers
Former Clemson star and Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson ranked sixth in the NFL in a deep-passing metric, showing improvement from one of the weaknesses draft pundits didn't like in 2017.
Might want to read the article instead of just the headline. What they are talking about is completion percentage above expectation. His expected percentage was 34.6% and he completed 41.2%. They aren’t talking about overall completion that he ranks 6th on they are talking about how much better he is doing than they thought he would. That’s why you see guys like Cousins, fitzmagic and Mayfield on that list and why Dak is number one.
Dak Prescott, Russell Wilson headline NFL's top 10 deep passers
Everybody loves the deep ball. Which quarterbacks throw it best? Nick Shook dove into Next Gen Stats from the 2019 season to find an answer. Check out his top 10 deep passers. (No. 1 might surprise you.)
www.nfl.com
Looks like a rolled up brownie..... doesnt smell anywhere close to it.... oh and thats corn... not peanuts.
Go back and look at his scouting report, if you can find it. His weaknesses were the deep ball and his habit of floating a pass. It’s been talked about that Dabo cut the field in half so that it forced Watson to make short passes. That much talked about 2017 season OB did the same thing, why he never did it again hell if I know but yes his passing game, while good, is not his greatest strength.
I can’t find the actual NFL one any more, figure they remove it to replace with player stats once they are drafted, but this is pretty close to what I remember it saying.
PFF scouting report: Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF
The PFF analysis team breaks down the prospects of former Clemson quarterback and national champion Deshaun Watson.
Ranking the top 10 QB draft prospects of 2017 | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF
Former North Carolina Tar Heel Mitchell Trubisky sits atop PFF's quarterback prospect rankings.
I guess in your opinion, once the scouting reports are written for the draft, the evaluation never changes during an NFL player's career.Go back and look at his scouting report, if you can find it. His weaknesses were the deep ball and his habit of floating a pass. It’s been talked about that Dabo cut the field in half so that it forced Watson to make short passes. That much talked about 2017 season OB did the same thing, why he never did it again hell if I know but yes his passing game, while good, is not his greatest strength.
I can’t find the actual NFL one any more, figure they remove it to replace with player stats once they are drafted, but this is pretty close to what I remember it saying.
PFF scouting report: Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF
The PFF analysis team breaks down the prospects of former Clemson quarterback and national champion Deshaun Watson.
And they had Prescott and Brissett as UDFA. LOL.Go back and look at his scouting report, if you can find it. His weaknesses were the deep ball and his habit of floating a pass. It’s been talked about that Dabo cut the field in half so that it forced Watson to make short passes. That much talked about 2017 season OB did the same thing, why he never did it again hell if I know but yes his passing game, while good, is not his greatest strength.
I can’t find the actual NFL one any more, figure they remove it to replace with player stats once they are drafted, but this is pretty close to what I remember it saying.
PFF scouting report: Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF
The PFF analysis team breaks down the prospects of former Clemson quarterback and national champion Deshaun Watson.
You may want to take their scouting reports with a grain of salt.
Or better yet, put it them in the trash bin where they belong.
Round-by-round ranking of 2016's best NFL QB prospects | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF
Steve Palazzolo breaks down and ranks every quarterback prospect available in the 2016 NFL draft.
And they had Allen ranked behind Rosen, among others. LOL.Go back and look at his scouting report, if you can find it. His weaknesses were the deep ball and his habit of floating a pass. It’s been talked about that Dabo cut the field in half so that it forced Watson to make short passes. That much talked about 2017 season OB did the same thing, why he never did it again hell if I know but yes his passing game, while good, is not his greatest strength.
I can’t find the actual NFL one any more, figure they remove it to replace with player stats once they are drafted, but this is pretty close to what I remember it saying.
PFF scouting report: Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF
The PFF analysis team breaks down the prospects of former Clemson quarterback and national champion Deshaun Watson.
Re-drafting the 2018 quarterback class | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF
Now that we have two years of tape on the 2018 quarterback class, let’s throw out those college evaluations and re-rank these quarterbacks based on what we’ve seen from them since they got into the NFL.
And how many of those are there ? .... 1 ?
Why does that one dissenting opinion eat away at so many people's soul ?
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Ranking the top 10 QB draft prospects of 2017 | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF
Former North Carolina Tar Heel Mitchell Trubisky sits atop PFF's quarterback prospect rankings.
And they had Prescott and Brissett as UDFA. LOL.
You may want to take their scouting reports with a grain of salt.
Or better yet, put it them in the trash bin where they belong.
Round-by-round ranking of 2016's best NFL QB prospects | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF
Steve Palazzolo breaks down and ranks every quarterback prospect available in the 2016 NFL draft.
And they had Allen ranked behind Rosen, among others. LOL.
Re-drafting the 2018 quarterback class | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF
Now that we have two years of tape on the 2018 quarterback class, let’s throw out those college evaluations and re-rank these quarterbacks based on what we’ve seen from them since they got into the NFL.
Reading comprehension is either not your strong point or you are purposely ignoring what I said. I said that it was as CLOSE as I could find to the official scouting report. Also for somebody that quotes anything, from any source that supports his argument you sure are quick to disregard anything that doesn’t.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
What the hell are you even talking about. The whole point of the discussion is that the problems we are seeing in Watson are the same problems that were seen when he was scouted. They change if the player changes and so far, for whatever reason they haven’t significantly changed for Watson.
God this is to funny, people on here say “we know Watson has weaknesses” but when you point to the weaknesses that PROFESSIONAL SCOUTS pointed out that can still be seen today it’s becomes a crusade to defend Watson. So let me ask two questions not just to you but to all the fans that think Watson is an elite QB.
1. As a Texans fan what possible reason could I have for not wanting Watson to be the greatest QB in NFL history especially after we have signed him to a long term deal? We aren’t getting another QB anytime soon so why would I not want him to be great?
2. If people say they know he has weaknesses yet the weaknesses I and others, including again professional scouts, aren’t actually weaknesses what are his weaknesses? Apparently running isn’t a weaknesses, passing isn’t a weaknesses, playing Houdini every time the pocket collapses isn’t a weakness. The sacks are all blamed on the line and the missed passes on the WRs so what is his weakness? He’s to nice?
I think to a man we've ALL accepted the fact that something is fundamentally wrong with OB's offense.
We've had a thread here started on September 16th 2018 with very little dissent. "Fire Bill"
I wanted him gone after the 2017 season. I wanted him gone again after the 2018 season getting embarrassed at home by the Colts in the playoffs and again after 51-7.
Everyone (Even @steelbtexan ) wanted him gone.
No one is ignoring how bad he was.
Define CLOSE.
When I quote people's opinions, I always said as such.
If you know me, opinions are just that.
When a HC talks about football scheme, yeah, I'll listen.
Whether they are good talent evaluators or not is a different matter.
I'd give them more weight for sure, but I don't take them as gospel.
Texansballer74
The Marine
I’m starting to believe some fans are only on here for attention. To say Watson strength isn’t passing is pure comedy. Dude you’re reaching big time as well as trying to get a rise out of the True Texan fans on here. You also know two other members will back that outlandish claim up. Great job in accomplishing your mission.
2018(8) in Completion % (11) in Yards (12) Touchdowns (15) QBR
2019 (6) in Completion % (13) in Yards (11) Touchdowns (7) QBR
So far this season
2020 (7) in Completion % (10) in Yards (7) in Touchdowns (15) QBR and (6) in rate
This is all while having a horrendous play caller, terrible offensive line and either missing key receivers ( due to injuries) and now having new receivers because OB’s hasty decision to get rid of one of the best receivers in today’s game.
2018(8) in Completion % (11) in Yards (12) Touchdowns (15) QBR
2019 (6) in Completion % (13) in Yards (11) Touchdowns (7) QBR
So far this season
2020 (7) in Completion % (10) in Yards (7) in Touchdowns (15) QBR and (6) in rate
This is all while having a horrendous play caller, terrible offensive line and either missing key receivers ( due to injuries) and now having new receivers because OB’s hasty decision to get rid of one of the best receivers in today’s game.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Nobody said Watson is the greatest quarterback like that. Neither are we convinced. This is you trying to twist people’s words up to justify this silly notion. As far as being the best in Texans history, I will say heck yeah.
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I'll tell you what CLOSE might look like.
Here, two NFL executives see the Niners taking Watson with their no. 2 pick.
Redirect Notice
www.google.com
Texansballer74
The Marine
No, it's the other way around.
I've been laughing at him the whole time.
Exactly.
And that scouting report Maverick put up is still spot on.
DW4 did well against the Jags. Whoopty freaking doo.
He did what he should be doing all of the time against top tier defenses. He wasn't even that good today.
He's in so many heads
Texansballer74
The Marine
That scouting report is not spot on. That young man has exceeded that crappy report.
Texansballer74
The Marine
So now 280+ yards 2 touchdowns no interceptions and leading his team in rushing is considered not good.
Wow is all I can say at this point. Lol
Wow is all I can say at this point. Lol
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Lot of posts and yet not a single one of them answers either question I asked. I didn’t actually expect an answer mind you but it’s just hilarious how predictable it was.
Also LMAO at the “true Texan fans” what’s next, I’m un-American and spreading fake news?
badboy
Hall of Fame
like jock itch you just have to scratch..
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Same reason some people believe theories no matter how much evidence from any number of sources is presented to them against it. A person commits themselves to an idea or a viewpoint and anything challenging that view point is taken as a personal attack. It’s actually fascinating how many people here are Watson fans first and Texan fans second. I can’t blame them as the Texans have been so sad to watch and Watson is exciting but it still is fascinating to me.
He was good,
He just did about what he should've done against a crappy Jags defense. Bottom line for me is they scored 27 points against the only defense that might be worse than the Texans defense. So yes, I expected more. You should be expecting more too.
Texansballer74
The Marine
A true fan imo does not cheer for another team. Especially not a team in the same division or conference.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Hey that’s three good games in a row for D4.
On the pregame they said 6. Hmm.
Texansballer74
The Marine
On the pregame they said 6. Hmm.
It would’ve been 6 but he had that one game in which he threw 3 touchdowns and 2 interceptions. He did however threw for 359 in that game. So it could go either way. Therefore 6 good games in a row. Lol
No more of this 9 bad games in a row chatter.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I think all our hope is in Watson and many know his need for improvement in some areas. Sort of "well I know my son but you damn well don't get to talk about him." Or "if little Johnny had not hung around the wrong crowd..." No one thinks maybe little Johnny was the one others should not have hung around with.
Today was a win but not one we can pin much optimism on. On to Cleveland hoping they revert back to old Browns as they did losing to Raiders 16-6. Maybe bye doesn't help them?
Texansballer74
The Marine
You can add yourself to this statement as well. And those that are cheering for Watson were fans of this team way before he was drafted. So please stop this madness of fabrications.
badboy
Hall of Fame
yep why cannot these NFL coach and coordinator dump it and come up with something effective but less complex?