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Texans’ State Of the Union...
- Thread starter Mangler
- Start date
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Likely b/c there’s enough of that already going on around here amongst the fans in general. It’s just fair to say that he has some major flaws in his game and a lot of people try to explain that away with coaching and scheme...but nah. The things he’s doing that are compounding the offenses issues are basic. Things he’s probably been learning to do /not do since high school.
He has to work out of that hero ball mentality. Trust his playmakers.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Hey man y’all are right.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
.....and Tannehill delivers the same results suited up in Watson’s place? Texans are 3-0 after Tannehill leads them on 3 game winning drives?
Watson hasn't been close in his three games where one drive would make a difference.
Tannehill has kept his team in position that those drives matter.
I don't think swapping Watson for Tannehill or even prime Drew Brees fixes all that ails this team .... but Watson puts himself in a lot of these situations by not taking those easy yards and ending up in long yardage situations. Contrary to popular belief , there are open pass catchers on damn near every play - Its not the system , its the trigger man.
Plenty of highlight plays but a lot of bad plays too ... and it only takes one to ruin a drive.
I'm starting to wonder what his mental process is in all of this - where's he starting at after the ball is snapped and how he's progressing thru the routes (or how he's been told to do so).
You guys are free to disagree ... I know my position isn't a popular one but this is what I see , particularly after breaking things down on the all-22.
Steeler's first offensive play.
Big Ben had a wide open RB just past the LOS, but he went to the TE 85 four yards down the side line (for an incompletion, no less).
Why?
Because that was his first read.
There can be open receivers but it doesn't necessarily mean that he'll get the ball.
On second down, Big Ben threw behind a wide open receiver; what a terrible QB.
Then on third and ten, he had a wide open RB on the shallow crossing route but looked elsewhere.
Bad "Watson" bad.
He didn't let the ball go until the pocket collapsed on him and got hit big time.
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Same thing, on the next first down, Big Ben had two guys underneath similar to the INT play by Watson, but he went deep and long with the LCB draping all over his receiver and was in phase from the get go (incompletion again).
The third down throw was highly contested and not to the most open receiver, but he was bailed out by a PI call.
On the next play, off the play action fake, Big Ben took the dump off but missed his chance with the corner route that came open just shortly. Actually, he could have gone there from the very start.
I could go on and on.
It's not that simple.
Tex in a Can
Practice Squad
Wow, totally amazed at the Tannehill vs. Watson discussion. Tennessee would make that trade in a heart beat and it would be worst than the Hopkins deal because we are talking quarterbacks. The offense needs time to gel and it needs stability. Hopkins was a rock at WR so that was a big blow to stability.
For those who are interested, here is a video with Quincy Avery talking about eyes, progressions, option routes on a couple of plays in the Ravens' game. Skip to the 18:00 minute mark
Very few teams get shutout in a half of football.
Zero points in the 2nd half makes it kinda hard to talk about the positives.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Steeler's first offensive play.
Big Ben had a wide open RB just past the LOS, but he went to the TE 85 four yards down the side line (for an incompletion, no less).
Why?
Because that was his first read.
There can be open receivers but it doesn't necessarily mean that he'll get the ball.
On second down, Big Ben threw behind a wide open receiver; what a terrible QB.
Then on third and ten, he had a wide open RB on the shallow crossing route but looked elsewhere.
Bad "Watson" bad.
He didn't let the ball go until the pocket collapsed on him and got hit big time.
None of Big Ben's decisions led to an INT and momentum swings...try again
Yeah, but he did miss a big play downfield. DUH.
Playing devil's advocate. If Watson throws the ball away or throws a pass short of the sticks and the Texans punt. If the Steelers still score, did the short pass or punt cause a momentum swing?
Don't get me wrong the INT could have been avoided, but I have a hard time blaming an INT on the opponent's 20 yard line that was the equivalent of a punt swinging momentum in such a fashion that on their next drive, a 11 yard sack and false start had them at 3rd and 26.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
AGAIN, the int was more than just a TO....it killed momentum that they'd just gotten back on that particular drive. The issue wasn't that DW4 missed a big play downfield..although he did that too early in the game to Cooks...that happens....... it was that he forced it when he probably shouldn't have.
Take the short stuff and get a chance at a FG. Maybe the receiver breaks a couple of tackles like Duke did in the buffalo playoff game and you get a 1st down. What you don't do is throw the ball up for grabs like DW4 did. You would have thought DW4 would have learned this after 4 years. But I guess that's all on coaching?
Totally disagree.
It was like a punt.
The game is still in the balance. The Texans still led by one point.
The Steelers had to go a long way to score (79 yards).
If the D hold them to a FG, the task of coming back to win the game would have been better.
Momentum killer is how they got to 3rd and 15.
The momentum killer was when the Texans decided to start running the ball when it wasn't effective. Watson shouldn't have thrown that ball, but it seems like he didn't want to lose. If they lose against the Vikings, I can see the team not trying hard anymore.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
You hear announcers speak to this when a team who has been struggling on offense early in a game is just happy to get 3 pts on the board even though they're still losing by a TD or more...Same concept here...IOW, Sometimes its just a confidence thing to stop the bleeding.
So to answer your question No a punt in that situation does not have the same effect for a few reasons. A TO gives the defense confidence/energy..the energy that they caused you to do something you weren't trying to do....& that energy spills over to the offense who now gets an unexpected possession. A punt has all sort of ramifications & things that can happen within it. Say we punt it & Angerer pins them deep inside their own 10...that 10 yards could be the difference between them kicking a FG or not getting into FG range....or he throws it short we pick up 5-7 yards, Fairbarn knocks in a big 55 yarder to extend the lead...Both of those are positive confidence plays for our team, that the other respective units can feed off of & use the energy from. Of course it can go the opposite way too but you get my point. It's abstract i know, but how many times have we seen a TO have a snowball effect on a team? Just last week, Keke's fumble...snowball effect on us b/c we never recovered from that although it appeared we were starting to get it going a little bit. Schaub's int in 2012 against the Pats in the playoffs..we had been playing decently until that particular play & it was pretty much over for us from then on.
Throwing it short of the sticks in that situation likely doesn't get you a 1st down, but it could possibly lead to points..you simply can't take that off the table for your team when you're struggling on offense.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
"Like" a punt and actually being 1 are 2 totally different things..for various reasons..#2.... YES, the game was still in the balance, so you're job as the qb is to not give the opposition any "hand up" in that situation. #3, the Steelers wouldn't have had to go 79 yards to score and take the lead..they could've driven 40 of that, kicked a FG and still taken the lead.
Furthermore, if the defense miraculously does hold them to a FG which we all know was pretty unlikely, we still lost the lead, the Steelers still got the extra possesion and we still as an offense have to get into position to take the lead back whether it was possible via a FG or not....against the #1 defense in the league.....on the road...when we weren't playing well on offense in the 2nd half.
Contrast that with throwing it short, maybe your FG kicker can knock in a 55 yarder & extend your lead.....NOW....the Steelers actually do have to go the full 80 yds and score a TD to take the lead, they have no momentum at their backs and the odds of your defense being able to hold them from scoring a TD are slightly better than they are of holding them to a FG. In addition to this, the clock is on your side at this point.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Just watching the action away from Mahomes excellence is amazing to me. That all 22 is incredible. It makes me want Bienemy even more.
There was still some 13 minutes and a half left. A Punt is a Punt.
There's no momentum lost.
But, again, the central point is still that there needs to be a better play called there.
It's that simple.
I know that's right.
I watch the KC games (both playoffs and this year), and rewatch them many times.
How they draw up those plays, the route scheme, the blocking sheme, etc.
That is what Great Football is supposed to be about.
The only thing that has regressed, imo, is his propensity to run. & it's not DCs keeping him in the pocket. He's just running a lot less than he used to. Maybe because of the ACL... Maybe because he wants to be a pocket passer. & without making plays with his feet, he's not good enough, yet, to consitently win from the pocket, especially when he doesn't trust his OL.
See, I was thinking on the drive at the end of the half, when Watson hit Akins for the big gain... if that were Kelce, that would have been a TD.
Same thing when you were saying Waston should have thrown the ball to Akins or Johnson in the flat on 3rd & 15... yeah, if that were Kelce or Damian Wilson that's just as likely to pick up that first down as Watson throwing it across his body into double coverage. But we don't have playmakers like Kelce or whoever.
When we take the field, it looks like it's so small. So hard to get away from the defense. When KC takes the field, it looks so huge. Impossible to cover the whole field.
Right now, the only playmaker we have on the team, is Watson.
Because we're losing.
Bingo. Well said.
QB is not perfect, but he's just part of the reason for 0-3. Nobody on this team is blameless.
But, as always, QB takes too much credit and too much blame in a team sport.
There is no chemistry on this team. None between the schemes and players, none between FO and coaching, and none between players themselves.
This 2020 team has a very 2005 Texans vibe about it, the year they fired OC Chris Palmer after an 0-2 start and eventually went 2-14.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Yeah...that's on OB. Who would you like to blame?
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
You obviously don't know OB as well as you think you do. OB can restrict things so severely trying to protect a 7-0 lead that he'll stand there and change nothing while watching his team get shut out for 3 quarters. He likes to lean heavily on his non-existent defense to hold 3 or 7 point leads the moment they're obtained.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Even last night, they had beaters for every blitz. Even though their line isn't over powering, they never get beat off the snap and crumble the pocket. Off that tangent, those motions, stab motions, reverse motions, and the open angles they create in pockets is amazing to watch. Like I stated to steelbtexan, that offense looks like Texas tech offense with better players. It doesn't look like Andy Reid offense in Philly nor when he was oc in Green Bay. Walsh always said his offense is catered to the qb.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
The Texans will always be limited talent wise if all they ever want are choir boys. Andy Reid has always gambled on talent. I remember in the JJ draft, when Justin Houston was there, they took Brooks Reed. Marcus Peters sitting there, they take Kevin Johnson. This offseason, Kareem Hunt sitting there, they traded for David Johnson. This is something management needs to change
His mindset is stuck in the 1950's era of football. He doesn't even have the smashmouth players either to do what he wants.
They would need a HC with great people skills to handle all the different personalities; a true leader of men.
I'm going to watch that game now.
Just saw the first big play, just a simple pass to Hill in one on one with Peters along the side line.
1 7:23 1 10 RAV 36 Patrick Mahomes pass complete deep right to Tyreek Hill for 32 yards (tackle by DeShon Elliott)
3 double team blocks on the play side; Mahomes had all day.
They cleared out the play side (and the throwing lane) with the slot receiver running a dig route to the middle and another receiver to the flat.
There were nothing between Mahomes and his target but the green grass of home.
I mean, that was as good (and easy) as it gets.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
They have soo much misdirection and movement, then its a series of fast guys in space
Yes Sir.
1 1:39 2 10 RAV 48 Patrick Mahomes pass complete short middle to Travis Kelce for 11 yards (tackle by Chuck Clark and Marlon Humphrey)
They set it up to look like RB screen to the right, then they sneaked Kelce off in the opposite direction.
Wide open and easy as usual.
2 12:55 3 5 RAV 5 Patrick Mahomes pass complete short middle to Anthony Sherman for 5 yards, touchdown
Faked roll out by the QB along with the RB, but turn back for a shovel pass to the FB (who had faked the block before turning back for the catch).
Easy peasy.
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
At the end of the day, anything other than what DW4 chose to do would've been better than what he actually did.
Just b/c I and a few others are being critical of him does not mean that we think he sucks...Well maybe steelb..but i assure you not me..he just needs to be a better more consistent decision maker....we go as he goes.
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leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
End of the half, 11 personel with Johnson and Akins. No huddle, moved the ball easily. Defense gets a 3 and out to start the 3rd at. 1st play run, 2nd play run, almost blown up in the backfield. 3rd and 7 checkdown, punt. Defense forces a punt. 1st down, pressure a run by Watson for 6 yds. Next play a run, loss of 1. 3rd and 4, left guard gives it up easy and quick, punt. No motions, everything static.
Yes Sir.
Watching the play call/scheme between the Texans and the Chiefs is like watching things from different planets..
Uh, I take that back.
It's more like from different universes.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Tell me where a play design that states, don't block TJ Watt
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Not even in the same level of football
Sometimes, one just have to laugh.
And then get ready to laugh again.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
KoolAid Sipper
AFCEVET
Andy Reid has never had a limit on his creativity. To add to that I bet the Chiefs have the fastest group of playmakers at WR in the NFL. Mahomes could lob the ball almost to any point and they could run it down. Not taking anything from Mahomes as he is extremely talented.