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Texans’ State Of the Union...

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Yes you have sir. And you’re actually doing it now.
Care to point out when, other than 1 time in the heat of the moment in a game thread last yr? Which I've repeatedly explained myself. But while we're on the subject would you call DW4 a heady QB? This isn't me saying he's dumb, but has he really gotten any better at reading defenses or learning when to audible out of plays in the 4 yrs since he's been here?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Care to point out when, other than 1 time in the heat of the moment in a game thread last yr? Which I've repeatedly explained myself. But while we're on the subject would you call DW4 a heady QB? This isn't me saying he's dumb, but has he really gotten any better at reading defenses or learning when to audible out of plays in the 4 yrs since he's been here?
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Well .... that's pretty simple - we're talking about what's wrong with this offense / team / QB play because that's what has to be fixed / made better for this team to compete for Lombardi trophy's.

Talking about what's right don't fix what's broke.
No talking here can fix whats broke
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
Taking that 5 yard dump off isn't expecting a miracle - its making the best of a bad situation.
You know the odds of sustaining that drive are against you and a sack or turnover are still the two worst outcomes. Any options you may have had on the following down are Nil at that point.

The best thing that can happen is you get the first.
The next best is you get so close that going for it on 4th down is a reasonable option
The next best thing is improving your FG position by X yards
An Incompletion still leaves you with options - go for it , kick a long FG or punt.
A sack removes any thought of a FG but still leaves you the option to punt
A turnover is worst case scenario - Your defense is immediately on the field.

They were conceding those routes , they probably pick up 5-7 more yards after the catch -still 3 yards short of the sticks but definitely in FG range and maybe they get close enough to go for it on 4th down.
Instead of harping on how the team should've handled 3rd and 15....then taking into consideration OB's penchant for running the back right into the backs of the Center....I was more than a little surprised to see Watson dropping back....then not really that surprised that the open receiver was only +-5 YDS ahead of the LOS....Watson passed on the dump-off and tried to get the ball further down the field....and this is what we're focusing on.

How about we focus on what got the team in a 3rd and 15 to begin with. Something tells me this will fall at the feet of OB/Kelly.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
TBH, I don't understand why somebody has to be wrong here. I have no qualms with what Watson did. It was 3rd & 15, outside of FG range, and the INT was like a punt basically. At the same time, I understand the conservative approach would have been to dump it off and maybe the receiver can make a play. Either decision, you're sort of hoping for a minor miracle.
INT on 3rd and 15 is like punting on third down. Why is that smart? You just gave up a down.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Instead of harping on how the team should've handled 3rd and 15....then taking into consideration OB's penchant for running the back right into the backs of the Center....I was more than a little surprised to see Watson dropping back....then not really that surprised that the open receiver was only +-5 YDS ahead of the LOS....Watson passed on the dump-off and tried to get the ball further down the field....and this is what we're focusing on.

How about we focus on what got the team in a 3rd and 15 to begin with. Something tells me this will fall at the feet of OB/Kelly.
On first down, they ran that jet sweep where Cooks ran right into TJ Watt for a 5 yard loss. That's actually a good play to dissect. What went wrong there? Was DJ supposed to chip him? Was Tytus supposed to at least slow him down a little before releasing? Should DW have read the play was dead and audibled (even if DW kept the ball, he was going to get sacked)? Or is this TJ Watt is simply faster than they thought?

On 2nd & 15, there was not alot to like here. It actually looked like the play call was designed to beat a blitz (which didn't happen). Everyone ran quick routes and turned in. No one was really open, but at the same time, bad throw by DW to Fells. Even if the completion was made, would have been just a 3 yard gain.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
We really need to sit down and watch the All 22 view.

2 crossing routes always hinder one another around the mesh point.
That mesh point is only for a split second and Watson clearly is not in a position to throw there... he's starting to step up in the pocket, and even then he could hit the TE for positive yardage

1601484579885.png
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
INT on 3rd and 15 is like punting on third down. Why is that smart? You just gave up a down.
Not saying it was the smart play, just saying I didn't mind it.

But TBH, the more I watch this play on the All-22, not happy with DW's play here. He actually was staring down Akins on that crossing route, looks like he was winding up to throw to him, but for some reason pulled back? I also think Watson had Cooks on that out route if he stayed in the pocket a bit longer. He would have taken a shot by Dupree, but looks like that throw was there.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
That mesh point is only for a split second and Watson clearly is not in a position to throw there... he's starting to step up in the pocket, and even then he could hit the TE for positive yardage

View attachment 6710
No, he can't.

He was looking downfield and almost wanted to throw the pass, but two things happened:
He saw two guys getting ready to converge on the deep route.
He also saw the RDE seemingly getting around the LG and ready to bat down the pass.
Watson was setting up to throw the ball, but he pulled it back.

By then, he also knew that the RDE was about to come up from behind him, so he took off.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
No, he can't.

He was looking downfield and almost wanted to throw the pass, but two things happened:
He saw two guys getting ready to converge on the deep route.
He also saw the RDE seemingly getting around the LG and ready to bat down the pass.
Watson was setting up to throw the ball, but he pulled it back.

By then, he also knew that the RDE was about to come up from behind him, so he took off.
Yes, he can

He just stepped up from his deep drop so he shouldn't have been looking downfield
The RDE was just starting to clear the LT and was 3 yards behind him
Easy toss to the TE for at least a 7 yard gain and probably more

1601486266357.png
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I'm watching/have watched the play in slow motion
It tells the story and I have taken lots of screen shots
Slow it down to a crawl.
Look at the 3:16 mark.
Watson stepped up the pocket and tried to set up to pass.
He was in his throwing stance.
He was looking at the direction of both the TE and the deep route (they were both on his line of sight).
But he pulled the ball back.
It wasn't like he didn't want to throw the ball.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Slow it down to a crawl.
Look at the 3:16 mark.
Watson stepped up the pocket and tried to set up to pass.
He was in his throwing stance.
He was looking at the direction of both the TE and the deep route (they were both on his line of sight).
But he pulled the ball back.
It wasn't like he didn't want to throw the ball.
That's what people have been trying to tell you
 

Boris

Veteran
That's what people have been trying to tell you
Tell me what?
Slow it down to a crawl.
Look at the 3:16 mark.
Watson stepped up the pocket and tried to set up to pass.
He was in his throwing stance.
He was looking at the direction of both the TE and the deep route (they were both on his line of sight).
But he pulled the ball back.

It wasn't like he didn't want to throw the ball.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I don't understand your statement.

Both MrTex and Corrosion wanted him to dump the ball off (presumably to the TE there), but I said Watson saw the RDT coming in from in front of him.
He didn't want to have the ball batted down so he pulled the ball back and scrambled out of there.
 
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JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
I don't understand your statement.

Both MrTex and Corrosion wanted him to dump the ball off (presumably to the TE there), but I said Watson saw the RDE coming in from in front of him.
He didn't want to have the ball batted down so he pulled the ball back and scrambled out of there.
You're contradicting yourself... the RDE was behind him and in no position to bat the ball down.
You're moving the goal post trying to get someone to agree with you while you ignore facts
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
You're contradicting yourself... the RDE was behind him and in no position to bat the ball down.
You're moving the goal post trying to get someone to agree with you while you ignore facts
I meant the RDT who came around the LG as I stated in the other thread.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Not saying it was the smart play, just saying I didn't mind it.

But TBH, the more I watch this play on the All-22, not happy with DW's play here. He actually was staring down Akins on that crossing route, looks like he was winding up to throw to him, but for some reason pulled back? I also think Watson had Cooks on that out route if he stayed in the pocket a bit longer. He would have taken a shot by Dupree, but looks like that throw was there.
Watson may just need bit more time with these guys and all could settle in. If Texans as a team stomp Minny I'll be tad more comfortable..a itty bitty tad. Another concern for me is Akins and Watson seemed to have a connection during the off-season.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
Again, this debate is based on "A SINGLE" ducking play that in no way determined the outcome of this game. OB determined the outcome of this game by changing what the team was successfully doing in the first half to the same ol' lethargic strategy that has killed this team for his 7 years as the HC/OC.

OB got the biggest and most unexpected gift(s) to start the second half....the Texans defense got back to back stops to start the second half and he failed the entire team by going so conservative he buried his offense. I really believe that the entire team quit on OB after the second conservative effort. OB let the Steelers regain the momentum and they decided not to relinquish the gift.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Again, this debate is based on "A SINGLE" ducking play that in no way determined the outcome of this game. OB determined the outcome of this game by changing what the team was successfully doing in the first half to the same ol' lethargic strategy that has killed this team for his 7 years as the HC/OC.

OB got the biggest and most unexpected gift(s) to start the second half....the Texans defense got back to back stops to start the second half and he failed the entire team by going so conservative he buried his offense. I really believe that the entire team quit on OB after the second conservative effort. OB let the Steelers regain the momentum and they decided not to relinquish the gift.
O'Brien was running the OLD "three yards and a cloud of dust" offense.

https://247sports.com/college/ohio-state/Board/120/Contents/Origin-of-Three-Yards-and-A-Cloud-Of-Dust-20461814/

:corrosion:
 

Earl34

Veteran
Care to point out when, other than 1 time in the heat of the moment in a game thread last yr? Which I've repeatedly explained myself. But while we're on the subject would you call DW4 a heady QB? This isn't me saying he's dumb, but has he really gotten any better at reading defenses or learning when to audible out of plays in the 4 yrs since he's been here?
Yes, yes. We know. Stats are for losers:

 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Imagine if we had a real talent like Tannehill here. :headhurts:
So you're saying DW4's had a better yr or last 8 games than Tannehil has? Go back to about week 12-13 of last year and tell me what you find. I will save you the time Tannehil has played at a higher level.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Imagine if we had a real talent like Tannehill here. :headhurts:
I wonder if that's what Lennon was thinking about?
Imagine no possession that went three and out. Imagine an offensive line that blocks, defense that tackles, too. Imagine no ACLs, hammies or concussions you know close your eyes and you can see it too. No Covid to die from or saturated fats; mankind could learn to like colors as did the creator of rainbows, fish, flowers and me; not sure about you?
Imagine...
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
This is all bullshit.
I wonder if that's what Lennon was thinking about?
Imagine no possession that went three and out. Imagine an offensive line that blocks, defense that tackles, too. Imagine no ACLs, hammies or concussions you know close your eyes and you can see it too. No Covid to die from or saturated fats; mankind could learn to like colors as did the creator of rainbows, fish, flowers and me; not sure about you?
Imagine...
Imagine.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
Well .... that's pretty simple - we're talking about what's wrong with this offense / team / QB play because that's what has to be fixed / made better for this team to compete for Lombardi trophy's.

Talking about what's right don't fix what's broke.
Nothing said here will fix what’s broken on that team.

But as far as the team themselves looking at what’s wrong and what’s going right, looking at positives will definitely help them. If you look at plays that are successful and things players are doing right, maybe....maybe as a staff they can figure out a way to get their players into more situations conducive for success.

They aren’t in the meeting rooms just looking at bad plays. You have to look at the good also and figure out why it was good and how to make it repeatable. Just like with the bad and how to not repeat those mistakes.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I just saw a thing on Mahomes saying he was the fastest to 10,000 yards. 35 games. Kurt Warner is now the 2nd fastest, 36 games.

I wonder where Watson is on that list. Can’t be too far behind.
Yes he can be.

Oh, y'all are talking about useless stats like yds/passer ratings etc...

I'll give you a stat, 0-3.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
Yes he can be.

Oh, y'all are talking about useless stats like yds/passer ratings etc...

I'll give you a stat, 0-3.
See.....that's the stat that gets the HC fired. That stat never gets the QB fired. Especially when the QB is a RD1 investment and the coach has a solid history of blowing leads both in the regular season and just recently in the playoffs....before that, it was getting blown out in the playoffs. As you look back on Watson's past and have determined him to be a bust with no NFL future....I see Watson (and Hopkins) as the primary guy(s) who's managed to save OB's pitiful career as an NFL HC.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
See.....that's the stat that gets the HC fired. That stat never gets the QB fired. Especially when the coach can blow leads like the Texans. Watson is the primary guy who's managed to save OB's pitiful career as an NFL HC.
Oh, he get at least 1 more HC fired in this lost decade.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The lesson that should be learned from Tannehill's career so far is that good QBs on crappy teams can only carry so much. Even Aaron Rodgers experienced a 6 win season in 2018.

Football is such a complicated team sport that blaming one player for everything is simpleton logic, at best.
 


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