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Texans’ State Of the Union...
- Thread starter Mangler
- Start date
Sample size is too small to be meaningful.
Teams defend the Texans differently than they would against a team like the Titans.
The Titans have an identity.
They are more often in "heavy" personnel such that you will see more defenders in the box (7, 8, even 9) or near the box.
The Titans don't care.
Their formula is 3.5x3= 10.5, good for a first down.
They use the run to set up the play action pass or an isolation for a particular matchup they think they can win.
Against the Texans, you'll see more nickel and dime defenses.
Even when defenses load the box, they still have to be mindful to contain Watson such that the offensive linemen have an easier time blocking for the run.
Look at the snap counts for the Chiefs as an example.
Tyrann Mathieu SS 0 0% 59 100%
Daniel Sorensen FS 0 0% 57 97%
L'Jarius Sneed DB 0 0% 55 93%
Antonio Hamilton CB 0 0% 38 64%
Juan Thornhill FS 0 0% 38 64%
ashad Fenton CB 0 0% 32 54%
Charvarius Ward CB 0 0% 31 53%
Tedric Thompson FS 0 0% 21 36%
That's more than 5 DBs out there on any given play.
I think, somehow, the Texans will pull an upset today (not that it will matter in the long run).
But, no, I don't see a 9-4 finish if they lose today.
And the Ravens snap counts:
DeShon Elliott FS 0 0% 59 100%
Marlon Humphrey CB 0 0% 59 100%
Chuck Clark SS 0 0% 59 100%
Marcus Peters CB 0 0% 59 100%
Jimmy Smith CB 0 0% 50 85%
Anthony Averett CB 0 0% 23 39%
Anthony Levine SS 0 0% 10 17%
Tavon Young CB 0 0% 3 5%
Again, that's an average of at least 5 DBs out there on the field.
You're not going to see defenses play like that against the Titans.
KoolAid Sipper
AFCEVET
I can't emphasize enough that the primary focus in critiquing this team IMO should be ranked as follows: ownership, coaching, players. Each has their own deserving merits, but the first two combined is 90% responsible because they have overall responsibility and they have the more constant presence. Ownership (50%), their trust in the current leadership in the football division of this organization leaves a lot to be desired. I wonder what are the metrics used in the quality control and assurance? OB (40%) as the head coach is the common denominator to every facet of this team's performance, it's his team and his job to put them in a position to be successful. Of course players have to execute, but what's at play here in IMO is I find OB has never been able to establish this team's identity (what do they do well always). Is he a student of the game (decision making)? Does he listen (open-minded to others' ideas and thoughts, with the ability to incorporate those ideas vs letting your ego get in the way)? Players (10%) are totally dependent on what their coaches do/plan/teach and the performance of the other players on the field. They are the biggest variable but have the least input into how the organization is run. As far as DW4, yes he has warts but he only has a 4 years in the NFL. His contract was about timing and opportunity. Just about all QBs in the NFL that are average and above are going to get more money than they are probably worth. It's not their fault and I'm positive no one is going to tell their employer, "I don't deserve this much money so give me a lower offer". If I'm the HC, I'm going to do whatever I can to ensure my $160M QB is in the best position to succeed. If that means I need to scrap my way of thinking then so be it. If I need to seek outisde consultation from someone who has experience with a QB with similar traits or an offense that's better suited, then so be it. Thus far OB to Watson is like putting leaded gas in an unleaded engine.
I doubt anyone would have said such things about Tannehill two years ago.
Mainly because none of those things were winning him games.
You're not going to upset me by stating Watson is not a good QB. As long as he's winning he'll be given the opportunity to learn. Look at Cam Newton, hasn't improved his game over the last four years or so. But the team of the decade gave him an opportunity to start.
Still the point here is Watson is in an environment not conducive to learning quickly. The play you quoted from Earl34. Not a blitz, Watson is pressured immediately. The play Watson correctly identifies the blitz, calls the perfect protection, but Honeybadger punks big for nothing blocking TE. Happens way too many times.
Then there are the plays were talking about here. Protection is good, Watson impersonates David Carr & runs into trouble, or he holds the ball too long & is pressured into doing the incredible crap we love, that sometimes works, sometimes doesn't.
I think Watson would thrive with Ben Jones anchoring our OL. Then Lamar Miller, Carlos Hyde, Duke/David Johnson could truly share the offensive load.
banned1976
sleeper mode
If the Texans do burn out this season and O’Brien is fired, bring me Greg Roman and those exotic run schemes from Baltimore. Draft a young running back in the third round and at least get the offense rolling until you can do a salary dump. It won’t be a quick one year turnaround. The draft and cap assets aren’t there. But I think this plan would get the Texans back on the right path.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Even if you did truly believe that nonsense, when did you come to that conclusion? In Tannehill’s 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th year in the league?
Tannehill had 1 winning season in Miami, and never had a passer rating above 100, and just 1 season with a QB rating above 50 (50 is average), before he got to Nashville.
If you truly believe Tannehill is a better QB than Watson, you’re just as bad at evaluating talent as OB is.
One thing about Tannehill though is he should be the poster child for showing that coaching can make a huge difference in the way one plays the game.
BO’s a good guy. Hardworking, honest, family man. But I think we tried this experiment enough.
Time to Fire BO’b & Easterby, then bring in Ricky as our GM/HC & team chaplain
Time to Fire BO’b & Easterby, then bring in Ricky as our GM/HC & team chaplain
banned1976
sleeper mode
For years you've talked about your hate (you've actually written on this board "I hate Bill O'Brien") of O'Brien. What's changed your mind?
Mangler
Toro de España
I’m pretty sure he hates Butt Chin, the HC/GM. Not Chin Hole, the man. As do I.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
The state of the Texans' union is weak!
I've been saying that they should run the Ravens system, although I'm not a Roman fan. Posters thought I was crazy.
Also Tannehil is much better than DW4. Always has been always will be.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
The one silver lining about politics contaminating the NFL is how it led me to emotionally divest from the sport and this dead-end team. I only watch now because I like to see my hometown win and I love visiting with fellow fans in Austin, but I don't care so much about losses anymore, and I feel no more heartbreak or frustration. It's liberating.
I've known since Hoyer's first throw as a Texan landing in the hands of the other team that O'Brien was all personality and not a trustworthy decision-maker. In each of the punishing seven seasons since then I held hope that the common sense fairy would magically embed shrewdness or logic into the minds Bob or Cal McNair. Now I don't have to care, and it feels really nice.
I'm only posting this to say hi to you guys since I've really enjoyed the conversation over the years. Maybe one day the NFL can purge itself of political poison and Cal can hire the right consultant through some stroke of luck, at which point I'd be happy to be a regular here again.
I've known since Hoyer's first throw as a Texan landing in the hands of the other team that O'Brien was all personality and not a trustworthy decision-maker. In each of the punishing seven seasons since then I held hope that the common sense fairy would magically embed shrewdness or logic into the minds Bob or Cal McNair. Now I don't have to care, and it feels really nice.
I'm only posting this to say hi to you guys since I've really enjoyed the conversation over the years. Maybe one day the NFL can purge itself of political poison and Cal can hire the right consultant through some stroke of luck, at which point I'd be happy to be a regular here again.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Truth hurts.
He got hurt in Miami
He's healthy now and playing much better than DW4 ever has other than 6 games before DC's figured him out.
7 1/2 games and counting. He played great in the 1st half but contributed to the 2nd half collapse.
True, but he was hurt many of those seasons in Miami.
Are you saying the Texans dont have as much talent on offense as the Titans and if so how do the Texans seem to beat the Titans every yr?
Funny how the Titans started winning soon after Tannehill became the starting QB. Did Vrabel suddenly become a top tier HC or maybe QB play matters in the NFL far beyond what the DVOA geeks are willing to admit.
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Nobody is better than a QB coached by BOB.
Didn't you say QBs always learn the most from BOB?
On the other hand, you said Watson had regressed every year.
LOL.
RGValleyTexan
Practice Squad
There's no fight in this team right now. In 2018, there was spark, excitement, talent all around. These three games have been boring and no juice from either side. It's sad to see. I've been off the board for a while, but I came back and forgot my old password. I'll be sharing in your discouragement. Time for O'Brien to go. Wears too many hats and not enough results. Period.
Max
Veteran
We're projected to be 6MM over the cap next year with only 38 players under contract. I understand that the cap # could go up substantially, but it doesn't change the fact that we have a lot of players on bloated contracts that are either going to have to get restructured or the player cut to field a roster under the cap.
Players and cap savings if cut this offseason:
JJ -- 17.5MM cap savings (doubt they get rid of him, but they should. Hoping BOB pushes to get rid of JJ and it's what gets him fired if nothing else will)
B. Cooks -- 12MM cap savings (gone)
David Johnson -- 6.9MM (2.1MM dead $) (probably too much dead $ to get rid of)
Duke Johnson -- 5.2MM (gone)
Nick Martin -- 6.2MM (2.5MM dead $) (probably too much dead $ to get rid of)
Z. Fulton -- 3MM (750k dead $) (hopefully gone)
D. Fells -- 2.3MM (500k dead $)
B. Mckinney -- 7MM (1.5MM dead $) (hopefully gone but probably too much dead $)
Dunn -- 3.3MM (1MM dead $)
This is all just this coming off-season. The real challenge is going to be preparing for 2022 when Watson's 40MM kicks in.
Our divisions 2021 cap space:
Houston -- (6MM) as in negative 6MM
Tennesee -- 13MM
Indianapolis -- 76MM
Jacksonville -- 82MM
Bottom line is that our cap space/roster has been poorly managed and there's going to need to be a major reshuffling in the next 2 years (not a good time to not have draft picks in the first 2 rounds). The state of the union doesn't look promising during that time. Somebody is going to have a mess to clean up if Cal has the guts to get rid of BOB. If he doesn't, I think this organization could be in real trouble for a long time.
Players and cap savings if cut this offseason:
JJ -- 17.5MM cap savings (doubt they get rid of him, but they should. Hoping BOB pushes to get rid of JJ and it's what gets him fired if nothing else will)
B. Cooks -- 12MM cap savings (gone)
David Johnson -- 6.9MM (2.1MM dead $) (probably too much dead $ to get rid of)
Duke Johnson -- 5.2MM (gone)
Nick Martin -- 6.2MM (2.5MM dead $) (probably too much dead $ to get rid of)
Z. Fulton -- 3MM (750k dead $) (hopefully gone)
D. Fells -- 2.3MM (500k dead $)
B. Mckinney -- 7MM (1.5MM dead $) (hopefully gone but probably too much dead $)
Dunn -- 3.3MM (1MM dead $)
This is all just this coming off-season. The real challenge is going to be preparing for 2022 when Watson's 40MM kicks in.
Our divisions 2021 cap space:
Houston -- (6MM) as in negative 6MM
Tennesee -- 13MM
Indianapolis -- 76MM
Jacksonville -- 82MM
Bottom line is that our cap space/roster has been poorly managed and there's going to need to be a major reshuffling in the next 2 years (not a good time to not have draft picks in the first 2 rounds). The state of the union doesn't look promising during that time. Somebody is going to have a mess to clean up if Cal has the guts to get rid of BOB. If he doesn't, I think this organization could be in real trouble for a long time.
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This is what I do after the Texans disappoint me. I hide my hate in thinly veiled kind words so I don’t seem biased.
But I am pretty biased.
Today , this season (and most of last) Tannehill is a better QB than Watson.
In Miami he was much like Watson is here - a prospect with a lot of physical talent.
You can not say with any certainty that Watson would magically solve all his own issues by being put in a situation similar to Tannehill - You could say there's a chance , a good chance but not a certainty. Maybe.
This offense goes as Watson goes , when he's making good decisions and getting rid of the ball quickly this offense moves the ball and puts up points , when he's dancing around on skates doing his best Michael Vick impersonation ..... the offense sucks , or maybe they make some off schedule magic. But odds are , they suck.
Yes , SOME of that is on the protection. But protection getting beaten so badly it immediately puts the QB on the run - Its overblown in comparison to the other issues regarding this offense. Its a relative rarity - what about all those other plays where the protection isn't blown up ? The same issues arise time and again.
I'd like to see Watson in another scheme - hopefully this year is bad enough to make that happen dump this stupid EP language Coryell system (really that's the philosophy of this offense with all the deep routes) and stop with the stupid RPO sets that don't follow the principal (Find it comical that Seth Payne commented on this from under his bed , I've said it for years) - they aren't fooling anyone with the RPO crap.
Just sucks that to get rid of OB we have to send Miami a two top 40 (probably 4-6/36-38) .... so we can get a new staff in here and see if Watson's abilities can be harnessed or not.
You give me the Titans line and Derek Henry, I guarantee you that Watson would kill it.
I can't even begin to imagine him switching place with Tannerhill.
Some of us had warned about this, including the "danger" of not extending Tunsil last year (for less) while paying too much for all of these guys that come via the trades.
Guys like Kenny Stills (just an example) cost too much, but since O'Brien can't develop enough players, he had to buy them, and he almost always buy high and sell low.
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Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
That’s where you’re wrong. This offense goes where the shit design and implementation of it goes. If you’re unhappy with Watson in this offense, then you’ll never be happy with any QB ever. Not in this offense.
You honestly think Ryan Tannehill could do any better in this shit show offense? Again, if you truly think that you’re just as bad of an evaluator as OB is and it absolutely makes sense how there’s people out there giving him the support they do. Hell, your evaluation process is right up there with Cal’s.
Texansballer74
The Marine
When he went on and on about the cap and if the quarterbacks eat up a certain percentage, they won’t win a SB. Therefore, just like another member on here, he will stick to that agenda. What’s crazy they know darn well OB is not doing him or this team any freaking justice. Dude took away their best weapon on offense. Singlehandedly destroyed a top 5 defense. Putting this team in cap hell and getting rid of all of their top draft capital.
Why is no ones opinion but yours is correct?
How arrogant of you
CstatTexan
Waterboy
Stills, Cobb, Cooks and Johnson are all over paid as well as our LT that we gave up so much for. Yet that genius of a GM refused to pay Hopkins, who’s the only guy on this team that’s arguably the best at his position.
Don't worry buddy, I heard you. I know reading these other posts it seems they didn't read you say, "BO'b sux"
But I heard you.
Max
Veteran
Who's that?This sounds like someone I know .....
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
^^^^I agree with this post. As I watch this highly invested on OL I just see group of players who would excel in a ZBS. Maybe even Martin becomes a Center in a system that would better work with his lack of size. Get a strong and knowledgeable ZBS OL Coach to help transition this group. Next, I think Watson's strength could be better suited in a WCO with a Spread Offense rolled into one. WCO offense is optimal with a running game that commands respect......that means a RB or two would become high importance.
IMO, the issues aren't system related as much as coaching related. Let Josh McDaniels run this offense, with this personnel, and it will taking the league by storm. OB has been out of his depth since leaving NE.
Miss your posts, man. You've always been fun to read.
Apathy is a biatch. I'm a Houston football fan for life - it's a character flaw, I suppose - but Texans management makes it damn hard to truly care about this franchise.
I've tried to care and still try. But a lost cause is a lost cause. It is what it is. . .
C&P this part, if you don't mind. . .
I think Watson would easily be a top 5 QB in Kubiak's scheme. I think it would be a match like Mahomes/Reid. Sometimes a coach and QB are just a good fit. And knowing what we know about Kubiak's offense, it's obvious that his GM knew what he would want found that QB. Unfortunately, it was for the wrong coach.
We will never know, of course, unless Watson is eventually shipped out. Dude should have played the Dak game. Made the Texans pay up year-to-year or force their hand to let him go where he could choose his landing spot.
The lesson is the GM and HC should be on the same page and believe in the same fundamental schemes and styles. Texans ownership are utter dolts for failing that basic lesson on human nature and compatibility. I expect nothing but more incompetence from the McNairs until they prove otherwise.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
You know he has an axe to grind with Watson. He has 0 objectivity in regards. When he said Tanneyhill has always been better, you can't even have a conversation with him honestly
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Really, Stills is paid correctly, Cobb is the one. Fuller 4 because of his injury history. That Whitney extension was totally uncalled for.
Where did I state that Tannehill was "always better". - I didn't.
I said "this year and much of last year".
I said while he was in Miami he was what Watson is now ....
Really , considering the results , is it even debatable who the better "Quarterback" is or is athlete the standard ? It's clear that Watson is the better athlete.
Stills' $8M salary tied for 32nd last year. That's low end no. 1 receiver's money
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/2019/average/wide-receiver/
His 40 catches tied for 66 among receivers. That's low end no. 2 / high end no. 3 receiver's production.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/receiving.htm
It's not like he had had a great career that can ever match that pay.
Not only that, he cost at least a second round pick.
You could get a FA for less money and not have to spend the pick.
Or if you decide to go with the draft, it was deep, a whole bunch of 2nd rounders outperformed Stills.
https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/f...nking-the-wide-receivers-for-2020-and-beyond/
(some on this list were first rounders, but there were nearly a dozen receivers drafted lower than the first round that outperformed him).
Oh yeah, he has 5 catches in 3 games this year for 50 yards.
What axe is this?
Tannehil has always been good. He's finally healthy and has better weapons around him than he had in Miami.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatsDe00.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TannRy00.htm
Watson's 40 games: 24W-16L, 66.8 compl. pct., 10,508 yards (262.7 ypg), 75 TD - 32 INT, AY/A 8.1 (Air Yard/Attempt)
Tannerhill's 32 games: 15-17, low 60s., 7,207 yards (225.5 ypg), 36 TD - 30 INT, AY/A Low 6.1
next 8 games: 5-3, low 60s, 1907 yards (238.4 ypg), 14 TD - 6 INT, AY/A Low 6s
Tannerhill's 40 games: 20W-20L, low 60s completion pct., 9,114 yards (227.85 ypg), 50 TD - 42 INT, low 6s AY/A
Rushing yardage and TD scored on the ground: It's a joke to even trying to compare.
I have no idea how you can come up with that comparison.