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Hopkins traded to Cardinals?

OptimisticTexan said:
Yeah, Nuk didn't have a Fitzgerald as a WR2 in either of those KC losses. Oh, and he damm sure didn't have a Conservative Nancy (OB) calling the plays. Such a big difference.
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Kyler was the 1 out there giving the 49ers fits, not Nuk. For all Nuk’s numbers in the passing game, Kyler only passed for 230 and The cardinals only went the length of the field and converted for a TD twice...1 of those TD drives was finished off with a 30 yard scamper by Murray. The only other was the final go ahead drive were Nuk was basically running by himself for a 31 yd catch and run. You think he’d be running by himself like that if the 49ers weren’t intent on keeping someone in to spy Murray b/c he had been killing them running the ball up to that point?
 
badboy said:
Going forward I expect to see Watson running wisely for many yards forward, not side to side or backwards.
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I’m starting to believe DW4 doesn’t really want to run. I’ve seen so many instances now where he could run if he went on ahead was decisive and get positive yardage when the pocket breaks down, but he doesn’t.
 
Mr teX said:
Kyler was the 1 out there giving the 49ers fits, not Nuk. For all Nuk’s numbers in the passing game, Kyler only passed for 230 and The cardinals only went the length of the field and converted for a TD twice...1 of those TD drives was finished off with a 30 yard scamper by Murray. The only other was the final go ahead drive were Nuk was basically running by himself for a 31 yd catch and run. You think he’d be running by himself like that if the 49ers weren’t intent on keeping someone in to spy Murray b/c he had been killing them running the ball up to that point?
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If that's the case....got any predictions as to what kind of numbers DHop will put up in this offense?
 
Mr teX said:
I’m starting to believe DW4 doesn’t really want to run. I’ve seen so many instances now where he could run if he went on ahead was decisive and get positive yardage when the pocket breaks down, but he doesn’t.
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Exactly. My biggest issue with Watson.

I don't necessarily want him running like Cam or Murray did today, but if that's what the defense is giving you, take it.

Especially if they're on a 31-0 run.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
If that's the case....got any predictions as to what kind of numbers DHop will put up in this offense?
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I think He’ll put up good YARDAGE numbers b/c he’ll be targeted like hell between the 20’s.....but then teams will start to double & I don’t think the TD’s numbers will be there like they were here tho. 1100 - 1300 yards..3-4 TD’s.
 
badboy said:
Perhaps those hidden motives were not about changing how Watson plays or how coach functions. Perhaps it was to move Hopkins. What came in return was just that. No bad GM decision but a Janice McNair decision. Agree with it or not.
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Thanks for allowing me those options. I'll go with "not". Janice McNair just decides on a whim to trade Hopkins? There HAS to be more to it than that. You know that.
 
banned1976 said:
And if the Texans first game is any indicator of things to come, Watson is going to just lock onto his next favorite target Will Fuller. If that turns out to being the case, getting rid of Hopkins cured nothing at all. Indeed, it may have made the offense less potent.

I understand there may have been some hidden motives in jettisoning Hopkins out of town for less than fair market value for a receiver of his caliber, but that may not change how Watson plays or how HC O’Brien functions. We’ll see.
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Spot On

Looks like nothing has changed.

6 bad games in a row and counting.
 
Mr teX said:
I’m starting to believe DW4 doesn’t really want to run. I’ve seen so many instances now where he could run if he went on ahead was decisive and get positive yardage when the pocket breaks down, but he doesn’t.
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Decisive or lack there of is the key word in this post. Confused is another word I can think of to describe DW4.
 
Mr teX said:
I’m starting to believe DW4 doesn’t really want to run. I’ve seen so many instances now where he could run if he went on ahead was decisive and get positive yardage when the pocket breaks down, but he doesn’t.
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Nah, he was born to run; he's trying to please coaches; trying fight an inner voice "run! You can make a play! Run!"
 
badboy said:
Nah, he was born to run; he's trying to please coaches; trying fight an inner voice "run! You can make a play! Run!"
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Lol, yeah no I don’t think that’s it at all. I'm not trying to derail the thread, but you need to understand the cat & mouse game that happens between a QB and a defense. Defenses try to make a qb throw it a certain place, time or in general do something with the ball that they don't want to do. The QB's job is to knock the defense out of that mindset & instead put & keep them on their heels. Lots of little ways to get this done if you're the qb, but the easiest way is to figure out what they're trying to do & expose the holes with passes. All qb's do this with varying levels of skills and success.

DW4 has shown that he's pretty damn good at doing it that way, but i think he forgets that he's damn good at using his feet to do it like LJ8 too. So in my estimation I just think he reads defenses a little too well for his own good if that makes sense. He sees where the ball needs to go based on his pre/post-snap reads but he sometimes stays with those reads a little too long........especially when those reads take him deep. That in turn leads to him holding it too long & it screws him when he eventually does have to pull it down and look to run due to the pressure; but by then its too late & he's got nowhere to go.

Another thing is DW4 is not a natural thrower of the ball. He has to have his base for throwing firmly established for him to deliver accurate balls for most of his throws. People see guys like Mahomes and Rodgers throwing off their back feet, throwing across their bodies/field etc. Well, speaking as someone with personal experience of having the position taught to me & having taught a little to others myself, ALL of those things are considered qb no-nos for delivering accurate throws. Only the truly gifted & natural throwers can get away with that stuff..That's why you see DW4 throwing inaccurate 5 yd dump offs to DJ when he's under pressure. In fact, this is the biggest difference between he and Mahomes right now. Mahomes will drift 15-20 yds back if he has to to buy time & with his arm talent he doesn't need a sturdy base to deliver accurately. DW4 won't do that, he will hang in the pocket..sometimes a little too long. Defenses have figured this out about him & its likely in the scouting report & they count on him to do it...That's why they're constantly sending pressure.

What he needs to do is come off those deep reads a little earlier & take off and advance the ball with his feet off script a few times. A few good gashes a game & defenses will start to take notice.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
My memory thinks it was Fuller being more of a non-factor due to coverage than Watson running around and not seeing him running wide open downfield. If my memory has failed me, please correct.
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To me it seemed that Kelly or Watson gave up early on trying to go deep and settled on shorter middle of field passes.
 
It was the opposite actually. When Watson was taking the mid range/ short passes, that combined with the run game had the ball moving pretty good. Its when they started trying to stretch it deep when things started going awry. They essentially had to start challenging deep b/c the defense once again couldn't stop the chiefs & their defense started getting more aggressive coming after DW4. From then on is when it went sideways.
 
badboy said:
To me it seemed that Kelly or Watson gave up early on trying to go deep and settled on shorter middle of field passes.
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The Chiefs were providing help over the top. It looked like Cover 2. Every attempted deep passes was go routes on the outside. With the way the OL was blocking, waiting for deep routes to open would have probably led to more sacks.
 
Chiefs also use Mathieu alot like the Steelers used Polamalu. Just kinda let him freelance out there & use his instincts. More often than not something good happens for them. The thing about this type of play is that the other guy behind him is very often covering for him. So the key to beating them defensively is keying in on Mathieu..misdirecting him and making sure that when he's up on the LOS you're throwing bodies at him....& running right at him out on the edges where he typically is coming from.
 
Earl34 said:
The Chiefs were providing help over the top. It looked like Cover 2. Every attempted deep passes was go routes on the outside. With the way the OL was blocking, waiting for deep routes to open would have probably led to more sacks.
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Funny how Kelly....OB again failed to attack the middle of the field with the TE and/or Slot WR. I think the Texans TE's could've exposed mismatches if they'd been utilized. 6 years and 2 games counting.....when does this inept HC/OC figure this out?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Funny how Kelly....OB again failed to attack the middle of the field with the TE and/or Slot WR. I think the Texans TE's could've exposed mismatches if they'd been utilized. 6 years and 2 games counting.....when does this inept HC/OC figure this out?
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I'm really hoping for warring to be this guy. Is he in the doghouse already?
 
I see people defending Bill by claiming Deshaun and Tunsil needed to be paid as if that doesn’t further amplify the failure that butt chin is. After years of not being able to develop an O line or find a QB, it finally costed them in a huge way losing arguably the best WR in the league.

You could further argue, what kind of idiot GM would pay a kings ransom for a franchise LT without securing an extension and avoiding giving said LT all the leverage in the world a year later.
 
CstatTexan said:
I see people defending Bill by claiming Deshaun and Tunsil needed to be paid as if that doesn’t further amplify the failure that butt chin is. After years of not being able to develop an O line or find a QB, it finally costed them in a huge way losing arguably the best WR in the league.

You could further argue, what kind of idiot GM would pay a kings ransom for a franchise LT without securing an extension and avoiding giving said LT all the leverage in the world a year later.
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Hmm. Are u saying that about the Seahawks GM and the Rams’ GM who did the Exact same thing with Adams and Ramsey (2-1st, no extension)? At least BoB got Stills too. LT are more important than DBs.
 
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Mr teX said:
Lol, yeah no I don’t think that’s it at all. I'm not trying to derail the thread, but you need to understand the cat & mouse game that happens between a QB and a defense. Defenses try to make a qb throw it a certain place, time or in general do something with the ball that they don't want to do. The QB's job is to knock the defense out of that mindset & instead put & keep them on their heels. Lots of little ways to get this done if you're the qb, but the easiest way is to figure out what they're trying to do & expose the holes with passes. All qb's do this with varying levels of skills and success.

DW4 has shown that he's pretty damn good at doing it that way, but i think he forgets that he's damn good at using his feet to do it like LJ8 too. So in my estimation I just think he reads defenses a little too well for his own good if that makes sense. He sees where the ball needs to go based on his pre/post-snap reads but he sometimes stays with those reads a little too long........especially when those reads take him deep. That in turn leads to him holding it too long & it screws him when he eventually does have to pull it down and look to run due to the pressure; but by then its too late & he's got nowhere to go.

Another thing is DW4 is not a natural thrower of the ball. He has to have his base for throwing firmly established for him to deliver accurate balls for most of his throws. People see guys like Mahomes and Rodgers throwing off their back feet, throwing across their bodies/field etc. Well, speaking as someone with personal experience of having the position taught to me & having taught a little to others myself, ALL of those things are considered qb no-nos for delivering accurate throws. Only the truly gifted & natural throwers can get away with that stuff..That's why you see DW4 throwing inaccurate 5 yd dump offs to DJ when he's under pressure. In fact, this is the biggest difference between he and Mahomes right now. Mahomes will drift 15-20 yds back if he has to to buy time & with his arm talent he doesn't need a sturdy base to deliver accurately. DW4 won't do that, he will hang in the pocket..sometimes a little too long. Defenses have figured this out about him & its likely in the scouting report & they count on him to do it...That's why they're constantly sending pressure.

What he needs to do is come off those deep reads a little earlier & take off and advance the ball with his feet off script a few times. A few good gashes a game & defenses will start to take notice.
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Or DW4's slow making his reads.

Probably closer to the truth. Although I hope you're right.

Spot on, about him not being a natural thrower of the football.
 
JB said:
What does Cooks have to do with his statement?
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He said giving up a 2nd Rd pick for a #3 or 4 wr I thought he was talking about Cooks. He might have been referring to Stills, but if that's the case it's Stills and a high 4th in 2021 for a 2nd.
 
steelbtexan said:
Or DW4's slow making his reads.

Probably closer to the truth. Although I hope you're right.

Spot on, about him not being a natural thrower of the football.
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ive rewatched the KC game several times now on NFL game pass. The All-22 isn't available yet, but what you’re asserting is not accurate at all. DW4 picked KC apart when they tried to sit back. His reads were relatively quick and the ball came out fast all game. The short passing game was there all night for us ......like they literally did not stop it all game. Even when they started to run blitz us alot on our last drive of the 1st half (b/c DJ31 was eating real good)............. b/c they realized they could no longer sit back & let him deal, he was still killing them. Truth be told, THEY didn’t really do much of anything to our offense with their defense...I believe they only held us to 3 & out once all game & we beat ourselves more than anything with bad drops (Stills had 2 late in the 4th), bad penalties at the worst possible time (Cunningham, Roby) and undisciplined play (d-line gap control, missed tackles). The problem was more us than anything they did defensively to us. Hell, you can attribute 6 points they scored directly to ST.

The lone play they made on defense on ,DW4's int , had a chance to be erased when Mckinney got the int...but the penalty on Roby gave them a do-over & they converted.
 
Mr teX said:
ive rewatched the KC game several times now on NFL game pass. The All-22 isn't available yet, but what you’re asserting is not accurate at all. DW4 picked KC apart when they tried to sit back. His reads were relatively quick and the ball came out fast all game. The short passing game was there all night for us ......like they literally did not stop it all game. Even when they started to run blitz us alot on our last drive of the 1st half (b/c DJ31 was eating real good)............. b/c they realized they could no longer sit back & let him deal, he was still killing them. Truth be told, THEY didn’t really do much of anything to our offense with their defense...I believe they only held us to 3 & out once all game & we beat ourselves more than anything with bad drops (Stills had 2 late in the 4th), bad penalties at the worst possible time (Cunningham, Roby) and undisciplined play (d-line gap control, missed tackles). The problem was more us than anything they did defensively to us. Hell, you can attribute 6 points they scored directly to ST.

The lone play they made on defense on ,DW4's int , had a chance to be erased when Mckinney got the int...but the penalty on Roby gave them a do-over & they converted.
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They sure must have been doing great.

31-7
 
steelbtexan said:
He said giving up a 2nd Rd pick for a #3 or 4 wr I thought he was talking about Cooks. He might have been referring to Stills, but if that's the case it's Stills and a high 4th in 2021 for a 2nd.
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You do know what we traded for Cooks, right? It was Cooks and a 4th for a 2nd rounder.

Are you suggesting Stills and Cooks have the same trade value?
 
steelbtexan said:
Or DW4's slow making his reads.

Probably closer to the truth. Although I hope you're right.

Spot on, about him not being a natural thrower of the football.
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So, does Watson save OB's arse again this year? Or, is OB praying that Watson doesn't go down with a season ending injury b/c that almost guarantees the Dolphins 2 picks inside the top seven or maybe even the one and two pick in the draft.

They get to rebuild.....the Texans.....

Have no cap for 2021, veteran players will have to be dumped, veteran FA's could walk due to team cap issues, and OB (if he survives) could have his first pick of the draft at 65 or 70 in RD3 in what would become a rebuild. Looking forward to seeing how OB cleans up his very own shiteshow. Also worth noting, the man has never been on the right side of a trade nor do I see him correcting this shortcoming.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
So, does Watson save OB's arse again this year? Or, is OB praying that Watson doesn't go down with a season ending injury b/c that almost guarantees the Dolphins 2 picks inside the top seven or maybe even the one and two pick in the draft.

They get to rebuild.....the Texans.....

Have no cap for 2021, veteran players will have to be dumped, veteran FA's could walk due to team cap issues, and OB (if he survives) could have his first pick of the draft at 65 or 70 in RD3 in what would become a rebuild. Looking forward to seeing how OB cleans up his very own shiteshow. Also worth noting, the man has never been on the right side of a trade nor do I see him correcting this shortcoming.
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DW4 ain't saving anything and never has.

I like the trades minus the Duke trade.
 
dream_team said:
You do know what we traded for Cooks, right? It was Cooks and a 4th for a 2nd rounder.

Are you suggesting Stills and Cooks have the same trade value?
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Yep,

It was also Stills/Tunsil + a 4th for Houston's 2020 1st and 2021 1st and 2nd. Tunsil = 2020 1st and 2021 1st

Stills +Miami's 2020 4th (Later traded in Nuk deal for a 2021 4th) for Houston's 2nd.
 
steelbtexan said:
DW4 ain't saving anything and never has.

I like the trades minus the Duke trade.
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Watson's only season out with an injury and OB finished with a flashy 4-12 season. Who else gets the major kudos for what the Texans have accomplished from 2017-2019? The defense- LOL! The OL- LOL! The running game- some! The receiving game- only Hopkins gets the nod!

So OB's ability to keep his job has primarily fallen on the shoulders of Watson and Hopkins. OB dumped Hopkins so that puts the burden on Watson's shoulders with the hope that one of the often injured players can step up and fill Hopkins shoes.

OB don't have a prayer in 2020 if Watson goes down.
 
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