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2021 Texans disarray or chugging along?

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At least Watson hasn't regressed to this.


I would get rid of OB in a heartbeat before I consider getting rid of Watson.
 
Earl34 said:
Watson has started 38 NFL games. He has not played 3 years (48 games) of NFL football. It appears your opinion is if he's not playing at the level of a 5-10 year QB within 38 games, he should be traded/released?

How many of the current starting NFL QBs had it all figured out in 38 games? I don't want to derail the conversation, but I can name at least 5 HOF QBs who did not have it figured out in 38 games. I can understand if you were willing to allow him to play 48 games to make a decision, but to want him gone after 38 games seems so short-sighted. Especially when good QBs do not grow on trees.
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Hey brother this particular thread was derailed a long time ago. And it wasn’t by us but I find it funny ole buddy would even throw that out like that.

Actually he’s playing a lot better than a bunch of 5-10 year veterans . Some of these posters want this kid to be 100% perfect. They act like HOF and top tier quarterbacks doesn’t have some flaws to their game.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Hey brother this particular thread was derailed a long time ago. And it wasn’t by us but I find it funny ole buddy would even throw that out like that.

Actually he’s playing a lot better than a bunch of 5-10 year veterans . Some of these posters want this kid to be 100% perfect. They act like HOF and top tier quarterbacks doesn’t have some flaws to their game.
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It also seems like it's easy to find a better quarterback somewhere else. I think the odds are better of finding a better HC than OB. I've seen enough in 6 years to keep waiting for him to turn the corner.
 
steelbtexan said:
How many games do you give him to improve what TB listed before you're ready to move on? next yr and one franchised yr is what I would give him. Then I would have a full compliment of draft picks to find another QB.

Would you want to pay any QB 35 mil per yr over 5 yrs with the issues TB listed and only hope he will figure it out? If you're wrong (Which I think you will be, god RS screwed up this franchise for almost 2 decades.) then that's 9 more wasted yrs.
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Far to often you will defend OB b/c he was strapped with RS. OB’s been the HC for 100+ games and he’s still making the same boneheaded mistakes he made in game one.

Watson has played 38 games while being strapped with OB as his OC, bad OL, an ok running game and Hopkins as his receiver b/c others can’t stay healthy.

I can easily see Watson has the skill set to be a top NFL QB and the flaws in his game can be corrected with better/healthier personnel.

OB isn’t going to get a better QB1 anytime soon so he better figure out how to be the QB guru he’s thought to be.
 
santo said:
It also seems like it's easy to find a better quarterback somewhere else. I think the odds are better of finding a better HC than OB. I've seen enough in 6 years to keep waiting for him to turn the corner.
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Agreed 100%. My thing is as of right now they’re Texans. So I’m going to support them both. But these gentlemen (since we have to dance around our words) needs to give O’Brien the same type of energy. They’re too keyed in on Watson weaknesses and don’t beat down O’Brien’s weaknesses. And the reason why is because it seems as if they don’t like us talking positive about the youngster. Or they believe we’re only here because of Watson.
 
dream_team said:
I think everyone agrees on this. I think what triggers debates is that a few posters (or maybe it's just one) believes he can't get better.
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That, and what Watson can do at an elite level is always diminished or not brought up at all. The positives in Watson's game outweigh the negatives, by far. Yet, the focus remains on the negatives. That's my biggest issue with these discussions.
 
santo said:
It also seems like it's easy to find a better quarterback somewhere else. I think the odds are better of finding a better HC than OB. I've seen enough in 6 years to keep waiting for him to turn the corner.
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Some folks act like this franchise is capable of consistently finding a great QB, in spite of the historical evidence to the contrary.

It's not just a Houston Texans, Inc. problem, though. Most inept organizations are consistently bad about evaluating talent and are incapable of making good decisions based on flawed evaluations.

Drafting Watson was the blind squirrel finally finding a nut for this franchise.

But let's give the barely-above-mediocre head coach even MORE power and control and just forget the last 6 seasons of clear evidence that he's already peaked.

p.s. to @Texansballer74
Don't ever call someone "smart one" again. :thud:
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Far to often you will defend OB b/c he was strapped with RS. OB’s been the HC for 100+ games and he’s still making the same boneheaded mistakes he made in game one.

Watson has played 38 games while being strapped with OB as his OC, bad OL, an ok running game and Hopkins as his receiver b/c others can’t stay healthy.

I can easily see Watson has the skill set to be a top NFL QB and the flaws in his game can be corrected with better/healthier personnel.

OB isn’t going to get a better QB1 anytime soon so he better figure out how to be the QB guru he’s thought to be.
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So now if DW4 only had better personnel he would be a top QB?
 
thunderkyss said:
If we're not winning, 6


If we're winning, I'll tell you when we get there.
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This means the option yr and 1 franchise tag yr.

Winning, they finished in the final 8 and lost to the eventual SB champions, how do you define winning?

We're thinking the same thing.
 
Texansballer74 said:
1. Hero ball, sometimes it’s best to throw it out of bounds.

2. Consistency: There will be some games in which every quarterback will struggle in. But last season Watson had too many of those games. So he will have to limit those type of games in which his passing was inconsistent.

3. Since he’s tasked to call out all protection, even the oline protection. Watson will have to get better at calling out his protection. But this unfair just like you think it’s unfair to call him the MJ football. ( Comparing him to MJ). Had to put that disclaimer there because some of you folks love to nitpick. The reason it’s unfair is because he’s too inexperienced and that’s too much on his or any young quarterbacks plate. Heck a lot of seasoned vets struggles in this department as well. That’s why most OC have their centers calling out the lines protection.

4. He has to get a little better with picking up the blitz pre-snap.
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#1 I'll respond to that in response to @Lucky below.

#2 consistency - As I've said many times , its boom or bust with this offense , they very seldom string together long / time consuming drives. Is it Watson , is it OB or some combination of the two.
Imagine if they had been able to put together one solid 7-8 minute drive in the first half against KC ….. how that would have changed the complexion of the game.

#3 & 4 Actually I think he does well in calling out presnap protections - Its the OL that struggles post snap picking up stunts. He usually identifies blitzers too … but this can loop back to #1 …. knowing he's responsible for making that extra guy miss.


If there was two thing I think he needs to improve on is accuracy in the short / mid range throws and making decisions a bit quicker.

santo said:
It also seems like it's easy to find a better quarterback somewhere else. I think the odds are better of finding a better HC than OB. I've seen enough in 6 years to keep waiting for him to turn the corner.
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I thought OB should have been gone after year 2 or 3 …. don't think he's a very good coach , his offense sucks and he makes too many errors in clock management , challenges & playcalls.

Weird how most fans think he should have been canned already but he keeps accumulating more power within the organization …. I'm baffled by that one.


dream_team said:
I think everyone agrees on this. I think what triggers debates is that a few posters (or maybe it's just one) believes he can't get better.
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That may be a fair observation ….


I just get annoyed when people (one or two posters?) compare him to MJ or other greats.
He's not Jim Kelly yet much less Brady / Brees / MJ …. fair comparison so far would be Dan Marino. Put up a buncha great stats …..



Texansballer74 said:
Agreed 100%. My thing is as of right now they’re Texans. So I’m going to support them both. But these gentlemen (since we have to dance around our words) needs to give O’Brien the same type of energy. They’re too keyed in on Watson weaknesses and don’t beat down O’Brien’s weaknesses. And the reason why is because it seems as if they don’t like us talking positive about the youngster. Or they believe we’re only here because of Watson.
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OB sucks …. I can't think of a single good thing to say about him as a coach. What more is there to say ?

FIRE OB! Like 3-4 years ago …. :deadhorse

We've had a thread on the subject since September of 2018 that's over 200 pages long and just about everyone agrees he should be outa here.


Has nothing at all to do with "don't like us talking positive about the youngster" that's just silly. We all want this team & Watson to succeed ….




Lucky said:
That, and what Watson can do at an elite level is always diminished or not brought up at all. The positives in Watson's game outweigh the negatives, by far. Yet, the focus remains on the negatives. That's my biggest issue with these discussions.
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One of the biggest positives is often one of his biggest issues ….. Heroball.

That's what makes Watson special - he can make something out of nothing on any given play. He just needs to learn when to and when not to.

Honestly , I'd like to see him make the decision to take over a play sooner rather than later - before the protection breaks down.

He's got to speed up his decision making.
 
santo said:
It also seems like it's easy to find a better quarterback somewhere else. I think the odds are better of finding a better HC than OB. I've seen enough in 6 years to keep waiting for him to turn the corner.
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I'm not against getting rid of BOB if it means when DW4 doesn't improve y'all will finally admit it.

This will never happen. All that will happen is more excuses will be made by a few.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Agreed 100%. My thing is as of right now they’re Texans. So I’m going to support them both. But these gentlemen (since we have to dance around our words) needs to give O’Brien the same type of energy. They’re too keyed in on Watson weaknesses and don’t beat down O’Brien’s weaknesses. And the reason why is because it seems as if they don’t like us talking positive about the youngster. Or they believe we’re only here because of Watson.
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Revisionist history

We've talked many times about BOB's weaknesses.

In fact alot of us called for him to be fired after 51-7
 
steelbtexan said:
So now if DW4 only had better personnel he would be a top QB?
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Watson has done just fine. Not to mention, he's done this with "one" consistent offensive weapon over his first 38 games. That weapon was Hopkins.....and that was it. Now he's gone so when I mention that Watson can take the next step in his Texans career with better and consistently healthy personnel you can rest assure that I'll stand behind this statement if it proves to be incorrect. I'll eat the crow sandwich with no complaints.
 
Corrosion said:
#1 I'll respond to that in response to @Lucky below.

#2 consistency - As I've said many times , its boom or bust with this offense , they very seldom string together long / time consuming drives. Is it Watson , is it OB or some combination of the two.
Imagine if they had been able to put together one solid 7-8 minute drive in the first half against KC ….. how that would have changed the complexion of the game.

#3 & 4 Actually I think he does well in calling out presnap protections - Its the OL that struggles post snap picking up stunts. He usually identifies blitzers too … but this can loop back to #1 …. knowing he's responsible for making that extra guy miss.


If there was two thing I think he needs to improve on is accuracy in the short / mid range throws and making decisions a bit quicker.



I thought OB should have been gone after year 2 or 3 …. don't think he's a very good coach , his offense sucks and he makes too many errors in clock management , challenges & playcalls.

Weird how most fans think he should have been canned already but he keeps accumulating more power within the organization …. I'm baffled by that one.




That may be a fair observation ….


I just get annoyed when people (one or two posters?) compare him to MJ or other greats.
He's not Jim Kelly yet much less Brady / Brees / MJ …. fair comparison so far would be Dan Marino. Put up a buncha great stats …..





OB sucks …. I can't think of a single good thing to say about him as a coach. What more is there to say ?

FIRE OB! Like 3-4 years ago …. :deadhorse

We've had a thread on the subject since September of 2018 that's over 200 pages long and just about everyone agrees he should be outa here.


Has nothing at all to do with "don't like us talking positive about the youngster" that's just silly. We all want this team & Watson to succeed ….






One of the biggest positives is often one of his biggest issues ….. Heroball.

That's what makes Watson special - he can make something out of nothing on any given play. He just needs to learn when to and when not to.

Honestly , I'd like to see him make the decision to take over a play sooner rather than later - before the protection breaks down.

He's got to speed up his decision making.
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Now I have a few questions?

With all of this that you have mentioned, what quarterbacks do you think would excel in this offense?

Remember we have had quarterbacks with years of experience in this system. And we have had a very smart journey man. Several throwaways and groomed a few rookies.

Did you watch the video Rico posted last week with Kurt Warner interviewing Watson?

If so you would see and understand why he’s not making those quick decisions. There’s a lot going on with these schemes.
 
Texansballer74 said:
We all know Watson is still a work in progress. And I’ve said several times he needs to improve in some areas of his game. So I don’t even know why are you asking these questions.
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Apparently not everyone knows that. Some appear to think this 3rd year QB should be at a HOF level and have no flaws in his game, and that he isn't and does, he needs a one way ticket out of town for the best deal we can get. I mean, we made the playoffs with Hoyer and Osweiler, who needs Watson?
 
Speedy said:
Apparently not everyone knows that. Some appear to think this 3rd year QB should be at a HOF level and have no flaws in his game, and that he isn't and does, he needs a one way ticket out of town for the best deal we can get. I mean, we made the playoffs with Hoyer and Osweiler, who needs Watson?
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It's not really this.

It's he hasn't improved his flaws much at all, so it makes me think he's grown as much as he can grow.
 
Speedy said:
Apparently not everyone knows that. Some appear to think this 3rd year QB should be at a HOF level and have no flaws in his game, and that he isn't and does, he needs a one way ticket out of town for the best deal we can get. I mean, we made the playoffs with Hoyer and Osweiler, who needs Watson?
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There's only two people that fit this description …. One of them doesn't think a team can win it all with Watson at QB and the other would trade his grandmother for a fourth round pick.

I fall in a different category …. I think he's plenty good enough to win with assuming he improves in a couple places , that he has a better supporting cast and last but not least a different coaching staff and a system that plays to his strengths rather than making him impersonate Tom Terrific until things go wrong then expecting him to do his best Mike Vick impersonation.
There have been many worse QB's win it all …. they had a few things in common - Good teams around them , particularly good defenses and running games , good coaching and they limited their mistakes.
A mistake Watson makes an awful lot is holding the ball far too long confident that he can get out of trouble … and there's the boom or bust nature of this offense.

He's got to speed up his internal clock. If he's going to hold onto the ball - he's got to buy time sooner than later - get outside and put pressure on the defense after the first 2-3 reads rather than standing in the pocket believing you can escape.
OB needs to help him in that aspect with his playcalling. I don't expect this to happen , I believe he's the worst HC in the NFL and the only reason he has a job is Watson making off script plays.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm not against getting rid of BOB if it means when DW4 doesn't improve y'all will finally admit it.

This will never happen. All that will happen is more excuses will be made by a few.
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What if BOB is fired and DW4 improves? Will you finally admit your evaluation was wrong and was based on the fact that you don't hate DW4 but you can't stand him?

steelbtexan said:
You're what's known as an optimistic fan.
This is the way a fanbase should be.
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steelbtexan said:
Then there are others that want to see how things work out before passing judgement.
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Corrosion said:
There's only two people that fit this description …. One of them doesn't think a team can win it all with Watson at QB and the other would trade his grandmother for a fourth round pick.

I fall in a different category …. I think he's plenty good enough to win with assuming he improves in a couple places , that he has a better supporting cast and last but not least a different coaching staff and a system that plays to his strengths rather than making him impersonate Tom Terrific until things go wrong then expecting him to do his best Mike Vick impersonation.
There have been many worse QB's win it all …. they had a few things in common - Good teams around them , particularly good defenses and running games , good coaching and they limited their mistakes.
A mistake Watson makes an awful lot is holding the ball far too long confident that he can get out of trouble … and there's the boom or bust nature of this offense.

He's got to speed up his internal clock. If he's going to hold onto the ball - he's got to buy time sooner than later - get outside and put pressure on the defense after the first 2-3 reads rather than standing in the pocket believing you can escape.
OB needs to help him in that aspect with his playcalling. I don't expect this to happen , I believe he's the worst HC in the NFL and the only reason he has a job is Watson making off script plays.
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Ouch
 
Earl34 said:
What if BOB is fired and DW4 improves? Will you finally admit your evaluation was wrong and was based on the fact that you don't hate DW4 but you can't stand him?
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Of course I will and truly hope I'm wrong since we (Fans) are going to be stuck with DW4 for another 5 yrs.
 
Corrosion said:
I just get annoyed when people (one or two posters?) compare him to MJ or other greats.
He's not Jim Kelly yet much less Brady / Brees / MJ …. fair comparison so far would be Dan Marino. Put up a buncha great stats …..
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To be fair, the MJ comparisons came from his former HC Dabo.

And what's wrong with comparing him to the "greats"? We all want DW to be a HOF QB, so it's only natural we compare him to those greats of today. We want him to be the next Brady, so we're going to compare them to see if that's something achievable. I don't think anyone is saying Watson is as good as Brady, if that's what you're referring to.
 
here is whats prob going to happen Watson will ball out agian but somehow in the playoff bill will screw up thus billy o gets canned and gm and new coach/gm Watson approved peeps come in
 
steelbtexan said:
So now if DW4 only had better personnel he would be a top QB?
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So, now you’re going to try to convince us that Mahomes doesn’t have the fastest WRs, best TE, damn good RBs, and probably the best special teams unit in the game? Not to mention a competent HC and OC? Jesus freakin Christ man...
 
Mangler said:
So, now you’re going to try to convince us that Mahomes doesn’t have the fastest WRs, best TE, damn good RBs, and probably the best special teams unit in the game? Not to mention a competent HC and OC? Jesus freakin Christ man...
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Not only is Reid a competent HC/OC he’s also when it all said and done a HOF Coach. And I mean first ballot.
 
Mangler said:
So, now you’re going to try to convince us that Mahomes doesn’t have the fastest WRs, best TE, damn good RBs, and probably the best special teams unit in the game? Not to mention a competent HC and OC? Jesus freakin Christ man...
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I'm telling you that DW4'S nowhere near the level that Mahomes is on.
 
Mangler said:
So, now you’re going to try to convince us that Mahomes doesn’t have the fastest WRs, best TE, damn good RBs, and probably the best special teams unit in the game? Not to mention a competent HC and OC? Jesus freakin Christ man...
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SteelB got annoyed/offended to references about Jesus In Cleats or his perception of a major JIC group on this forum. Ironically, he expects Watson to start 38 NFL games, functioned as a season 5-10 year QB, overcome WRs constantly running the wrong routes, Fuller constantly being injured, the inconsistent OL, the HC and the OC while measuring up to Mahomes, Reid and their skilled position players.

It's hilarious because it seems like he wants a....wait for it......JIC. :smiliepalm:
 
Earl34 said:
Neither is JimmyG or some of the QBs you prefer over Watson.
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Patrick was put in a much better situation than most quarterbacks. If he were a Texans he wouldn’t be putting up the numbers he’s put up so far in his short career. Some people just don’t understand the importance coaching has on the entire team let along the development of a young quarterback.
 
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Texansballer74 said:
Patrick is putting in a much better situation than most quarterbacks. If he were a Texans he wouldn’t be putting up the numbers he’s put up so far in his short career. Some people just don’t understand the importance coaching has on the entire team let along the development of a young quarterback.
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To your point. Look at Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher versus his performance with Sean McVay. How about Steve Young with Tampa Bay versus his performance with the 49ers. It's not hard to understand. You just have to be objective and understand context.
 
Earl34 said:
To your point. Look at Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher versus his performance with Sean McVay. How about Steve Young with Tampa Bay versus his performance with the 49ers. It's not hard to understand. You just have to be objective and understand context.
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Exactly, it’s not hard to understand that at all.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Mahomas is a bad boy but if he were here, he would look just like Watson. Good thing he’s with an offensive genius who didn’t mind changing up the game to fit his skill sets/ strengths.
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With two seasons on the field Mahomes is good enough to continue his growth even with OBrien/Kelly. This season should allow all of us to see Dashaun take a significant step forward. He is our QB and we all should want him to succeed.
 
badboy said:
With two seasons on the field Mahomes is good enough to continue his growth even with OBrien/Kelly. This season should allow all of us to see Dashaun take a significant step forward. He is our QB and we all should want him to succeed.
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Most definitely, my point was his coach and situation made it very easy for him to grow. Having him sit his rookie year, being able to keep his offensive line intake , bringing in players to fit the scheme that’s being employed to tailoring his philosophy to fit the strengths of his quarterback. Bill O’Brien on the other hand is struggling with all of that. Hopefully it all clicks this season.
 
I just cannot see special teams coach impacting Watson much. Important to team but not to my evaluation of Dashaun. We do need to get a great replacement.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Mahomas is a bad boy but if he were here, he would look just like Watson. Good thing he’s with an offensive genius who didn’t mind changing up the game to fit his skill sets/ strengths.
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You don't know this

Mahomes is the more naturally gifted athlete.

I just wish RS had spent the 3rd to get BOB the guy he wanted.
 
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