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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

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In my most optimistic mood, I have some hope that BOB's grand offensive scheme still could work here w/ Watson. I talked w/ a hard-core Pats fan recently that talked about their poor luck drafting receivers. He said that almost none of them 'got it'. I looked it up and they've only drafted 2 in the Brady era that worked out -- Edelman (7th round) and Deion Branch in the 2nd. They've had 8 receivers drafted in the 4th rounds or better (4 in the first 2 rounds) that never figured out how to get on the same page w/ Brady. It's a very complex offense for the receivers to get on the same page w/ the QB and that's with the best QB in the business. Add a QB to the mix that is still mastering the offense, and there's going to be some major growing pains.

When I'm optimistic I imagine that BOB has us in a run first offense until Watson has mastered things and has the receiver personnel in place that 'get it' and are on the same sheet of music as Watson, and then we open things up and Watson is Brady w/ legs. The other 364 days, I just want BOB fired.
 
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FuzzyLogic said:
I know this won't even begin to change anyone's mind - but I like the comparison that was made in an earlier post, and Watson compares pretty favorably to Wilson in their first three years. So you can go by the 'eye test' and ignore stats, and I know I'll get the 'yeah but, Wilson won a Super Bowl' which is true but Seatle had the Legion of Boom and Beastmode while Houston has the Legion of BOO and a serviceable pair of running backs.

Wilson is a great quarterback - but he wasn't much further along in his development in year three than Watson is. After three years there were a lot of things Wilson still needed to improve, and he has done that. After two and a half years there is a boatload Watson needs to improve on, hopefully he continues to do the same.

The only real disagreement we have is that some think Watson is a finished product and can't/won't improve, and I think after three years he compares favorably to most successful QB's in their first three years. Yes, I wish we had the luxury of 'knowing' he will be a hall of famer before paying him like one, but that isn't how the NFL works.


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I don't think anyone has said Watson was a finished product. The rest of your post is spot on.
 
Mr.Scarface said:
Let's hire the assistant GM of the dumpster fire that is the Browns (whose GM was just fired). Yeah!

Highsmith is going back to "The U" to run that football program as a "Chief of Staff" (Reportedly).

Dabo Swinney is not leaving Clemson. Why would he? He is getting paid $8.2 million a year which will go up to $10 million by 2027. That is more than he would get in the NFL. He plays a cupcake ACC schedule every year and can almost assure himself in the playoff, every year.
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When a team stumbles backwards instead of what most felt should've been a grand step forward......the last guy I'm pointing a finger at is the Asst GM. Eliot Wolf is considered one of the hottest up and coming future GM's in the NFL. He'll probably get signed to a GM position in 2020. I just hope the Texans invite him in for an interview, unless of course you're happy with OB being the GM going forward.

Highsmith could very well go back to Miami but I think he'd be listening if the Texans pickup Wolf and Wolf turned around and offered a him an Asst GM or Head of Personnel position. Both positions are gateway positions to becoming an NFL GM. That could be just as important and maybe even more than returning to the dumpster fire that is University of Miami.

As for Sweeney......this could be his very best opportunity to make the move to NFL HC. Why? His stock couldn't be any hotter than it currently is and if he doesn't have the desired impact in the NFL he'd still be a extremely hot commodity in the college ranks. I think most top college coaches have a desire to test their methods in the NFL, should they come calling. It might take 10.5M base salary per year to get him to the table but the bottom line it would be a nice bump to his current payday. There would obviously be incentives that could get him to Belichick territory should his move be successful. The one thing I know for certain.......you ain't going to know nothing if you don't ask. If the answer is no, you simply move on to the next candidates......nothing ventured, nothing lost.
 
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FuzzyLogic said:
Wilson is a great quarterback - but he wasn't much further along in his development in year three than Watson is.
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Very few are. Yet “some” expect him to be at a HOF level by now.

Watson is 24-13 with OB. OB is 2 games UNDER .500 without Watson. I’d say do the math, but “some” don’t care about math and facts and things of that nature.

And that doesn’t take into account his development being stunted by a mediocre coach who has a history of not knowing how to utilize his player’s and team’s strengths.
 
Cowboys FINALLY get rid of Garrett. Below is tweet about Jerry Jones.

"Jerry Jones really allowed Jason Garrett to waste the primes of Tony Romo Dez Bryant Sean Lee Tyron Smith Zack Martin Travis Frederick Jason Witten DeMarcus Ware DeMarco Murray Dak Prescott Ezekiel Elliott Amari Cooper "

Just substitute Texans equals and this tweets us perfectly.

"McNair allowed BOB to waste the primes of JJ Watt, Watson, Dhop, ............."

What a ******* waste and McNair is to blame. Not BOB. He is what he is. As on OC he absolutely sucks, as coach or GM he may not be terrible but his character will not allow someone else to take over play calling duties unless they are a mini-BOB which we already know does not work.

Hope I am wrong about him and his play calling. If not one and done
 
Mr teX said:
Reciepts please..(sources??) Otherwise this is just bunk.
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Wait a minute. You, the self proclaimed football savant are telling me you’ve watched all the games and can’t tell the difference from the offense that lit the league on fire from the absolute trash offence that BOB has been trying Unsuccessfully to run since Watson’s second year? Do you think what Watson ran his first year is being run full time now? You really can’t tell the differenc?
 
gafftop said:
Cowboys FINALLY get rid of Garrett. Below is tweet about Jerry Jones.

"Jerry Jones really allowed Jason Garrett to waste the primes of Tony Romo Dez Bryant Sean Lee Tyron Smith Zack Martin Travis Frederick Jason Witten DeMarcus Ware DeMarco Murray Dak Prescott Ezekiel Elliott Amari Cooper "
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Until Jerrah holds a press conference, it's not a done deal
 
Speedy said:
Very few are. Yet “some” expect him to be at a HOF level by now.

Watson is 24-13 with OB. OB is 2 games UNDER .500 without Watson. I’d say do the math, but “some” don’t care about math and facts and things of that nature.

And that doesn’t take into account his development being stunted by a mediocre coach who has a history of not knowing how to utilize his player’s and team’s strengths.
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tenor.gif
 
gafftop said:
Feel Jason gone as head coach because Jones cares about winning a championship
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I agree he's probably gone, but until he say's it, it's speculation. i think all owners care about winning a championship
 
FuzzyLogic said:
I know this won't even begin to change anyone's mind - but I like the comparison that was made in an earlier post, and Watson compares pretty favorably to Wilson in their first three years. So you can go by the 'eye test' and ignore stats, and I know I'll get the 'yeah but, Wilson won a Super Bowl' which is true but Seatle had the Legion of Boom and Beastmode while Houston has the Legion of BOO and a serviceable pair of running backs.

Wilson is a great quarterback - but he wasn't much further along in his development in year three than Watson is. After three years there were a lot of things Wilson still needed to improve, and he has done that. After two and a half years there is a boatload Watson needs to improve on, hopefully he continues to do the same.

The only real disagreement we have is that some think Watson is a finished product and can't/won't improve, and I think after three years he compares favorably to most successful QB's in their first three years. Yes, I wish we had the luxury of 'knowing' he will be a hall of famer before paying him like one, but that isn't how the NFL works.


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Well, we have the luxury of watching him one more year before his fifth year option and pay him really cheap money. As I've stated before if we extend this off season for 35 million that's increase of $30.5 million. An avg of $5.1 over five year deal. That should cover any increase of waiting. That does not include the enormous risk factor of injury and lack of improvement that is a possibility. This is where the extending of veterans like mercilus, Hopkins and others is a good thing even if Mercy was paid too much.
 
JB said:
I agree he's probably gone, but until he say's it, it's speculation. i think all owners care about winning a championship
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All owners care about is making $$$$.

If they happen to win a championship that's a bonus.
 
steelbtexan said:
1. Nope but, BOB is limited in what calls he can make due to DW4's issues.

2. I want them both gone, because I don't think either one will win a championship.

3. If you don't believe DW4 can win a championship then you need to move on instead of wasting another 5-7 yrs hoping DW4 will finally get it and hoping against hope that you can win a championship

. Basically you're you've put yourself in a corner. You can't win a SB but you have to pay him 35 mil per yr for QB play that won't win a championship.
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Here's my point:

1 I believe history has shown OB isn't the guy to take us to a championship. We've had 6 years of the same mistakes over and over , same vanilla offense.

2 Watson has shown the ability to win on the biggest stage in dramatic fashion , he's never had a playcaller design a gameplan to his talents , he's been forced to fit into a scheme that just doesn't fit him and still put up great numbers more often than not.

3 Watson has another year on his contract - we aren't locked in at $35m yet. We have the opportunity to see him in an offense better suited to him - If we take advantage of it.

4 We are not getting a better QB in the next two years - we're sending two 1st and a 2nd over the next two drafts to Miami.
We're pretty much stuck with Watson this coming season regardless , we may as well put him in the best possible position to win in the mean time.


I might tend to agree with you if OB did something to help his QB …. but he hasn't , I'm not sold on Watson being the answer but I don't know that he isn't either , putting him in a better situation may hide his flaws and allow him to take advantage of his strengths - We got everything to gain and nothing to lose in doing that next season since we're stuck with him anyway.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Hmm. My memory is not the greatest. I remember when Peyton Manning became a FA he openly said how much he would like to play here. Am I wrong? So then passing on him would have been solely a Tricky Ricky thing? I don’t remember. Depth is great, but if you have 2 “good” QBs then you really have no good QBs. It’s a luxury, but if this team would have been more shrewd along the way we might have a Lombardi by now.

Keemun turned out better than the 3rd string guy OBrien told him he’d be that’s for sure.
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Yeah , Manning said he wanted to play here - more specifically for Kubiak.

Schaub's extension put them behind the 8 ball in terms of cap space - they couldn't trade him because that accelerates all the pro rated bonus money.
They just weren't in a position to sign Manning no matter what they did with Schaub be that trade or keep both , they were up against the cap with no room to spare.

The Schaub extension is why Peyton Manning didn't suit up for the Texans. That extension was also Rick Smith's decision and against Gary's wishes.

We all know Schaub wasn't a physically talented QB - he was physically just good enough but made up for it with accuracy and making the right decisions but after that Lis Franc , he wasn't physically good enough anymore and his accuracy / decision making couldn't make up for it.
Gary saw that coming a mile away. Rick thought otherwise and the rest is history.

Yeah , Keenum turned into a decent NFL QB …. but that took a few more years. At the time he wasn't what he became , he went 0-8 that year as a starter himself.
 
Corrosion said:
Here's my point:

1 I believe history has shown OB isn't the guy to take us to a championship. We've had 6 years of the same mistakes over and over , same vanilla offense.

2 Watson has shown the ability to win on the biggest stage in dramatic fashion , he's never had a playcaller design a gameplan to his talents , he's been forced to fit into a scheme that just doesn't fit him and still put up great numbers more often than not.

3 Watson has another year on his contract - we aren't locked in at $35m yet. We have the opportunity to see him in an offense better suited to him - If we take advantage of it.

4 We are not getting a better QB in the next two years - we're sending two 1st and a 2nd over the next two drafts to Miami.
We're pretty much stuck with Watson this coming season regardless , we may as well put him in the best possible position to win in the mean time.


I might tend to agree with you if OB did something to help his QB …. but he hasn't , I'm not sold on Watson being the answer but I don't know that he isn't either , putting him in a better situation may hide his flaws and allow him to take advantage of his strengths - We got everything to gain and nothing to lose in doing that next season since we're stuck with him anyway.
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I agree with a lot of this.

The difference is I dont think the HC matters when it comes to DW4's flaws. As Texansphan pointed out DW4 has the 4th best passer rating in the NFL. That's doing a pretty good job of hiding his flaws and I dont think another HC can do better without getting DW4 hurt.

I realize that you want to see DW4 in a WC offense because you think his talents are a better fit in that offense. But accuracy is the #1 thing you have to have in a WC offense, See: Schaub, and DW4 while he would have great games in that offense (He has them in BOB's bastardized version of the EP) he's not accurate enough to win a SB.
 
JB said:
And had that in year 7 with Kubiak... j/s

A coach believes what he believes... not going to change for fans
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Kubiak had his warts but he put his QB in good situations , he made a pro bowler out of a sloth footed noodle armed statue of a QB in Schaub.

What has OB done with the dynamic talent that is Watson ?

Nor did he call a time out then challenge a play and cost himself two time outs …. that along with piss poor clock management has been a theme with OB.

We also don't have Hall of Famers knocking on the door wanting to play for OB.
 
mussop said:
Wait a minute. You, the self proclaimed football savant are telling me you’ve watched all the games and can’t tell the difference from the offense that lit the league on fire from the absolute trash offence that BOB has been trying Unsuccessfully to run since Watson’s second year? Do you think what Watson ran his first year is being run full time now? You really can’t tell the differenc?
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I like that title & from now on, that's how you should address me when i school you. :)

Use your common sense. The only reason everyone thinks the offense was radically different was b/c they were putting up points. Nevermind it was just a 6 game stretch, nevermind it was a rookie qb whom the league had no tape on & no real feel for. Lets just run with the narrative that "oh, the offense was soooo radically different b/c BoB changed it to fit DW4's style...:rolleyes: . lets not........& instead just use our brains & really break this down like rational & intelligent folks shall we?

There were a number of factors that influenced why that 6 game stretch on offense was what it was, most of which folks like you like to ignore when making your unsubstantiated, largely baseless claims that the offense was sooooo radically different back then. The biggest reason of course is something none of us here really knew then, but we know now. That is, WFV matters...& he apparently matters alot to WHATEVER offense BoB wants to run. 4 out of those 6 games DW4 started in 2017, he had a healthy WFV. The only game he didn't where the offense still scored 30+ pts was in the NE game...Call that an outlier, but even that has relevance when i make my next point. His 1st start against Cincy the offense put up 13 damn pts......but guess who he didn't have in that game at WR? Yup, your boy WFV who caught his 7 TD's in the 4 game stretch he played with DW4 before he went down. The 6 other games WFV played without him he didn't sniff the end zone. Now in hearing this, does any of this in 2019 sound familiar to you?

The 2nd major thing is, those team in that 6 game stretch were mostly bottom half of the league, or much worse on defense. Use any metric you'd like. I'll use DVOA since its the popular go-to for some on here.

Team DVOA ranking on defense in 2017
Tenn 21
Cle 16
NE 31 (yup, that's right a BB led defense was ranked 31 of 32 teams on defense that year)
KC 30
SEA 13
CIN 17

IOW's you'd think it would be just a tad bit easier to look good on offense & put up pts when you're going against defenses that reside towards the bottom of the league on defense don't ya agree?

Next, the new qb effect. You have to know that this played somewhat into it. The year after him, it was Mahomes who benefited...year after that it was Baker Mayfield. The length of the effect varies from guy to guy depending if they can play, but in that 6 game stretch, defenses hadn't really seen him & he & the offense took advantage of that.

Lastly, if there were tweaks to the offense, they were made to ENHANCE DW4's skillset as noted in every damn article written going into the 2018 season. That means:

more play-action & rolling of the pocket- to this day, damn near every pass play we undertake comes off play-action.
more read option - you could argue successfully that we run more of this now than we ever did back in 2017 when it was basically zilch...
more RPO - can almost guarantee you we weren't running any of this back in 2017.

So if there was a change to the offense, it would seem we would need to go back to BoB's offense that we were largely running in 2017 rather than continue to tweak towards DW4, not the other way around.

Fact is, what we had been watching under center prior to DW4 was so bad, we really had no clue what BoB's offense could look like with competent qb play. Aside from that, what we have here with alot of folks is similar to what business economists call "the endowment effect" except in this instance, you guys are overvaluing a 7 game performance instead of objectively weighing some of the key variables for why it happened, least of which is that the offense was radically different.
 
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Watson can be one of the best QB's in the game. He doesn't have the right OC/HC to get it done.

If I knew with 100% certainty that BOB would be fired if the Texans got trashed tomorrow and I could choose that option - I would.

If they manage to eek out a win tomorrow, 99.999% of the fan base knows the ass kicking that will ensue next weekend. BOB isn't up to the challenge. After 6 years do we not know that already?

This guy is like an anchor thrown over the side of a speed boat. Watson is freaking dragging BOB forward just due to his amazing talents and ability to create when things go off schedule, which is on a semi-frequent basis.

I've wanted baby Shanny here for a long time. Y'all see what he's doing now in SF with a QB not as talented as Watson. Imagine what Kubes/baby Shanny or another WC guru could do with this QB and this array of talent at WR/TE. I mean we'd be scoring an average of 30+.

Yes, I think Kubes struggled at times with lack of ability to adapt under trying in-game circumstances. Nobody "forgets" that. But that doesn't damn the whole concept. That just means it needs some wrinkles available when the other team has your number. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water - clean the baby a different way if push comes to shove.
 
gafftop said:
Cowboys FINALLY get rid of Garrett. Below is tweet about Jerry Jones.

"Jerry Jones really allowed Jason Garrett to waste the primes of Tony Romo Dez Bryant Sean Lee Tyron Smith Zack Martin Travis Frederick Jason Witten DeMarcus Ware DeMarco Murray Dak Prescott Ezekiel Elliott Amari Cooper "

Just substitute Texans equals and this tweets us perfectly.

"McNair allowed BOB to waste the primes of JJ Watt, Watson, Dhop, ............."

What a ******* waste and McNair is to blame. Not BOB. He is what he is. As on OC he absolutely sucks, as coach or GM he may not be terrible but his character will not allow someone else to take over play calling duties unless they are a mini-BOB which we already know does not work.

Hope I am wrong about him and his play calling. If not one and done
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My own theory is that this team will never achieve greatness as long as a McNair has his finger in the pie and they run the front office like a corporate board room. Too many cooks in the kitchen sort of thing. I have no reason to believe that Cal is any different than Bob. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. :bigboss:

So get rid of O'Brien, but do not expect this owner to have the insight and wisdom to both find a competent GM and HC, as well as restructure the front office to invite a champion mindset.

McNair = mediocre but good enough to keep the tickets and merchandise selling. They just hope they can catch lightning in a bottle one year.

Corrosion said:
Yeah , Manning said he wanted to play here - more specifically for Kubiak.

Schaub's extension put them behind the 8 ball in terms of cap space - they couldn't trade him because that accelerates all the pro rated bonus money.
They just weren't in a position to sign Manning no matter what they did with Schaub be that trade or keep both , they were up against the cap with no room to spare.

The Schaub extension is why Peyton Manning didn't suit up for the Texans. That extension was also Rick Smith's decision and against Gary's wishes.

We all know Schaub wasn't a physically talented QB - he was physically just good enough but made up for it with accuracy and making the right decisions but after that Lis Franc , he wasn't physically good enough anymore and his accuracy / decision making couldn't make up for it.
Gary saw that coming a mile away. Rick thought otherwise and the rest is history.

Yeah , Keenum turned into a decent NFL QB …. but that took a few more years. At the time he wasn't what he became , he went 0-8 that year as a starter himself.
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Yep. The Kubiak/Shanahan scheme has been proven through multiple teams and multiple QBs. John Elway, Steve Young, and Peyton Manning all won NFL championships with that scheme.

OB's scheme? Without Tom Brady, it does not have a time-tested track record. It demands so much from the QB and entire offense that it takes years to learn, much less master. And if the QBs natural talent is not suited? Well, too freakin' bad! O'Brien will hammer that square peg into a round hole and blame the defensive coordinator if it doesn't work out. Or he'll get condescending with freakin' stats.

Kubiak's scheme, on the other hand, is a QBs playground. Sage Rosenfels went into great detail about how QB-friendly the scheme is, which is why you are seeing it successful yet again in San Francisco (after it was successful in ATL before that).
 
Porky said:
Watson can be one of the best QB's in the game. He doesn't have the right OC/HC to get it done.

If I knew with 100% certainty that BOB would be fired if the Texans got trashed tomorrow and I could choose that option - I would.

If they manage to eek out a win tomorrow, 99.999% of the fan base knows the ass kicking that will ensue next weekend. BOB isn't up to the challenge. After 6 years do we not know that already?

This guy is like an anchor thrown over the side of a speed boat. Watson is freaking dragging BOB forward just due to his amazing talents and ability to create when things go off schedule, which is on a semi-frequent basis.

I've wanted baby Shanny here for a long time. Y'all see what he's doing now in SF with a QB not as talented as Watson. Imagine what Kubes/baby Shanny or another WC guru could do with this QB and this array of talent at WR/TE. I mean we'd be scoring an average of 30+.

Yes, I think Kubes struggled at times with lack of ability to adapt under trying in-game circumstances. Nobody "forgets" that. But that doesn't damn the whole concept. That just means it needs some wrinkles available when the other team has your number. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water - clean the baby a different way if push comes to shove.
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That's all Lynch in SF. Baby Shanny & the 49ers as a whole capitalized on a soft schedule early on. Late in the season when they had to play some real teams they looked relatively average on offense.
gafftop said:
Feel Jason gone as head coach because Jones cares about winning a championship
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Lol, oh if Cowboys fans heard you say that....
 
And how did baby Shanny do in Atlanta? That offense has petered out since he left. It's a shell of what it was when Shanny was calling the shots.

It's been proven to be a successful offense over and over. What more empirical data do you need to convince yourself? BOB has a crap offense, has crappy game plans, and calls crap plays. It's an offense full of crap!
 
Porky said:
And how did baby Shanny do in Atlanta? That offense has petered out since he left. It's a shell of what it was when Shanny was calling the shots.

It's been proven to be a successful offense over and over. What more empirical data do you need to convince yourself? BOB has a crap offense, has crappy game plans, and calls crap plays. It's an offense full of crap!
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That offense has worked thru different era's of football …. starting in 1959 in Sid Gilman's offense and has been honed by an NFL Quarterback and has been successful at literally every stop and with QB's ranging from HoFers like Steve Young and Joe Montana to guys who were physically limited like Schaub and Joe Flacco and literally everything in between.
 
Corrosion said:
Here's my point:

1 I believe history has shown OB isn't the guy to take us to a championship. We've had 6 years of the same mistakes over and over , same vanilla offense.

2 Watson has shown the ability to win on the biggest stage in dramatic fashion , he's never had a playcaller design a gameplan to his talents , he's been forced to fit into a scheme that just doesn't fit him and still put up great numbers more often than not.

3 Watson has another year on his contract - we aren't locked in at $35m yet. We have the opportunity to see him in an offense better suited to him - If we take advantage of it.

4 We are not getting a better QB in the next two years - we're sending two 1st and a 2nd over the next two drafts to Miami.
We're pretty much stuck with Watson this coming season regardless , we may as well put him in the best possible position to win in the mean time.


I might tend to agree with you if OB did something to help his QB …. but he hasn't , I'm not sold on Watson being the answer but I don't know that he isn't either , putting him in a better situation may hide his flaws and allow him to take advantage of his strengths - We got everything to gain and nothing to lose in doing that next season since we're stuck with him anyway.
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I think Dabo Swinney could Make better use of Watson even if number four does not improve his skills under him. I just cannot see that happening.
1. Cal brings in coach to possibly get SB with Dashaun. That depends on the problem being O'Brien.

2. O'Brien remains and Watson is traded for a huge package. A QB comes in through draft, FA or trade; does not have to be a great player just one that O'Brien utilizes in his system. This plus good use of package for 4 buys two more years for HC. Again not likely to occur.

3. SOS and most likely to be the future irregardless of the rest of the season.
 
TexansBull said:
That has a lot to do with the play call of running it up the middle every first down for little to no gain. Every first down. Every series. Every game. Every season. Since OB has been here.
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Agreed

Hopefully he does this to set up the run or at least shorten the game and not because he doesn't trust DW4.

But it's maddening.
 
steelbtexan said:
Agreed

Hopefully he does this to set up the run or at least shorten the game and not because he doesn't trust DW4.

But it's maddening.
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There's some small stupid part of me that Hope's ob has done this purposefully to fool defensive coordinators and the team stat geeks recording our offensive tendencies. We were just waiting for the playoffs to deviate and explode in an epic amount of tds.

Yeah right.

We'll force the run on first no matter the outcome. We'll play with 2 downs instead of 3. Being a "versatile offense" means we can do whatever we want against any defense as long as we get those 2 yards on 1st down...
 
powda said:
There's some small stupid part of me that Hope's ob has done this purposefully to fool defensive coordinators and the team stat geeks recording our offensive tendencies. We were just waiting for the playoffs to deviate and explode in an epic amount of tds.

Yeah right.

We'll force the run on first no matter the outcome. We'll play with 2 downs instead of 3. Being a "versatile offense" means we can do whatever we want against any defense as long as we get those 2 yards on 1st down...
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On the bright side he's shortening the game by doing this.
 
Speedy said:
Very few are. Yet “some” expect him to be at a HOF level by now.

Watson is 24-13 with OB. OB is 2 games UNDER .500 without Watson. I’d say do the math, but “some” don’t care about math and facts and things of that nature.

And that doesn’t take into account his development being stunted by a mediocre coach who has a history of not knowing how to utilize his player’s and team’s strengths.
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That record should be 28-9. Thank you Obrien for putting trust in your defense. And thank you RAC for that whack ash bend but don't break defense.
 
steelbtexan said:
Agreed

Hopefully he does this to set up the run or at least shorten the game and not because he doesn't trust DW4.

But it's maddening.
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Shortening the game isn’t a qualified strategy if you can’t get 3-4 yards on the play. Otherwise you are wasting your possession and giving the other team momentum and opportunities.

That’s the core of OB’s issue. Square peg round hole.
 
Porky said:
And how did baby Shanny do in Atlanta? That offense has petered out since he left. It's a shell of what it was when Shanny was calling the shots.

It's been proven to be a successful offense over and over. What more empirical data do you need to convince yourself? BOB has a crap offense, has crappy game plans, and calls crap plays. It's an offense full of crap!
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Or.....it’s petered out b/c Devontae Freeman has been a shell of himself since he got injured the following year & Matt Ryan is past his prime.

You guys are funny Though and have a weird view of “success”. The pats run the EP for 20 years, win 6 SB’s go to 8 total & have the longest ever run of dominance the game has ever seen. Looks like success over & over to me.


& screw the style points of which looks good. we’ve now run both systems here....& so far, both have netted the Texans a grand total of 0 AFCCG appearances and 0 SB...
 
Mr teX said:
Or.....it’s petered out b/c Devontae Freeman has been a shell of himself since he got injured the following year & Matt Ryan is past his prime.

You guys are funny Though and have a weird view of “success”. The pats run the EP for 20 years, win 6 SB’s go to 8 total & have the longest ever run of dominance the game has ever seen. Looks like success over & over to me.


& screw the style points of which looks good. we’ve now run both systems here....& so far, both have netted the Texans a grand total of 0 AFCCG appearances and 0 SB...
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What we run is not the same as New England. People need to quit portraying it as the same.
 
amazing80 said:
What we run is not the same as New England. People need to quit portraying it as the same.
Click to expand...

Just like the version of the WCO that Kubiak/Baby Shanny and all these other HC’s have run is not the same as the true WCO that Walsh pioneered in the 80’s ...yet they all get lumped in together when talking about the success “over and over” that it has had. And truth is what a lot of people attribute as success for the WCO is actually more probably AC.

Truth is all these guys have put their spin on it and everybody’s running the same **** anyway. It just comes down the aggression level of the play caller and who u have running the offense.
 
Mr teX said:
You guys are funny Though and have a weird view of “success”. The pats run the EP for 20 years, win 6 SB’s go to 8 total & have the longest ever run of dominance the game has ever seen. Looks like success over & over to me.
Click to expand...
Thing is Belichick took the EP philosophy and has morphed it over the years depending on the strengths of his squads. When he had Antwain Smith, Corey Dillon, and Kevin Faulk he featured those guys strengths - Smith's then Dillon's downhill running and Faulk's pass catching. As Brady matured, the offense featured passing more; Edelman, Gronk, etc. Now they have no one but TB12 and, frankly, without a true threat, that offense looks shaky.
 
ObsiWan said:
Thing is Belichick took the EP philosophy and has morphed it over the years depending on the strengths of his squads. When he had Antwain Smith, Corey Dillon, and Kevin Faulk he featured those guys strengths - Smith's then Dillon's downhill running and Faulk's pass catching. As Brady matured, the offense featured passing more; Edelman, Gronk, etc. Now they have no one but TB12 and, frankly, without a true threat, that offense looks shaky.
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Good points. With Brady and a banged up Edelman, you are seeing some of the same issues as the Texans‘ offense.

Brady doesn't trust the other WRs and without a deep threat, the defenses are doubling Edelman and Brady is getting frustrated with the other WRs running wrong or bad routes. Sounds familiar?
 
Corrosion said:
Kubiak had his warts but he put his QB in good situations , he made a pro bowler out of a sloth footed noodle armed statue of a QB in Schaub.

What has OB done with the dynamic talent that is Watson ?

Nor did he call a time out then challenge a play and cost himself two time outs …. that along with piss poor clock management has been a theme with OB.

We also don't have Hall of Famers knocking on the door wanting to play for OB.
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I would remind you Bill Belichick / Tom Brady went 5-11, 11-5 & 9-7, Brady's first three seasons. Bill O'Brien / Deshaun Watson has a record of 4-12, 11-5 & 10-6, Watson's first three seasons.

I supposed you would have fired Belichick after his 9-7 2002 season?
 
Mr teX said:
Or.....it’s petered out b/c Devontae Freeman has been a shell of himself since he got injured the following year & Matt Ryan is past his prime.

You guys are funny Though and have a weird view of “success”. The pats run the EP for 20 years, win 6 SB’s go to 8 total & have the longest ever run of dominance the game has ever seen. Looks like success over & over to me.


& screw the style points of which looks good. we’ve now run both systems here....& so far, both have netted the Texans a grand total of 0 AFCCG appearances and 0 SB...
Click to expand...


They've also had Tom Brady at QB for the duration … not to mention The Best Coach of the era.

They may as well have Joe Montana and Vince Lombardi while we have Bucky Richardson and Bert Bell.
 
Number19 said:
I would remind you Bill Belichick / Tom Brady went 5-11, 11-5 & 9-7, Brady's first three seasons. Bill O'Brien / Deshaun Watson has a record of 4-12, 11-5 & 10-6, Watson's first three seasons.

I supposed you would have fired Belichick after his 9-7 2002 season?
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No …. and you know that's being disingenuous.

You have to take their tenures in context , not just a snapshot of a small sample size.

New England was already good before Brady …. and had been to a Superbowl just a couple years prior with Bledsoe at QB.

The OB has a 1-2 record in the playoffs BEFORE Watson and an 0-1 record With him. So the results haven't really changed ….
OB's lone playoff win came against a team starting Connor Cook at QB.
 
Corrosion said:
No …. and you know that's being disingenuous.

You have to take their tenures in context , not just a snapshot of a small sample size.

New England was already good before Brady …. and had been to a Superbowl just a couple years prior with Bledsoe at QB.

The OB has a 1-2 record in the playoffs BEFORE Watson and an 0-1 record With him. So the results haven't really changed ….
OB's lone playoff win came against a team starting Connor Cook at QB.
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OK, perhaps a better comparison was Belichick's first 5 season's record of 36-45 compared to O'Brien's first 5 season's record of 42-38?

My point is for an organization to have sustained sucess you need stability, coaching and perhaps most important, the field general, the QB.

For a coach starting his career, OB has had above average sucess, without a really good QB. We now have a QB.

You simply don't destroy the stability of an organization when it has been sucessful; and particularly when you are finally putting in place the players needed for a run at the next level.
 
ObsiWan said:
Thing is Belichick took the EP philosophy and has morphed it over the years depending on the strengths of his squads. When he had Antwain Smith, Corey Dillon, and Kevin Faulk he featured those guys strengths - Smith's then Dillon's downhill running and Faulk's pass catching. As Brady matured, the offense featured passing more; Edelman, Gronk, etc. Now they have no one but TB12 and, frankly, without a true threat, that offense looks shaky.
Click to expand...
Shaky??........or was it a typo and you meant to say Sh*##y? :hides:
 
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