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Watson’s a top 5 qb. Do you agree?
- Thread starter DanielTx
- Start date
dream_team
Hall of Fame
"People"? Or just one person?
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
So people, or person? I see plenty of people that take the good with the bad - I see three or four who are in a internet battle.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
dude I’m the first to say when he has a bad throw/game. He’s been skipping balls in a few games. He wants to be the hero. He’s indecisive with which superpower to use at times.
BUT HES THE BEST WEVE EVER HAD!!!
Guys say he’s not consistent but don’t want to open the dialogue about who and why could have contributed to those bad games. You provide stats, facts, video, Pareto graphs, pie charts, first hand player accounts and still they say he’s not smart and the team could do better. It’s illogical.
luckily most Texans fans are appreciative of what they have with Deshaun and can enjoy the highs and lows of a superstar QB in his 3rd year. Two or three guys don’t speak for the majority and deep down I just feel bad that they won’t be able to enjoy the ride. We deserve this, it’s been a long, hard road.
What things did he say needed to be worked on.
Can you show me some of his posts
It was a terrible play. If he had gone down by the time the ball was placed and ready for play almost 50 seconds would've run off of the clock and the chance of scoring would've been slim. Not trusting your professional kicker to make a clutch 30 yd FG is a whole other issue.
I dont put up any pies, articles, videos etc....
You think DW4 will win a championship, I dont it's that simple.
I would love to have egg on my face.
Texansballer74
The Marine
This is what he's been saying all year.
Quote: Uncle Rico
He’s been skipping balls in a few games. He wants to be the hero. He’s indecisive with which superpower to use at times.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Steel .. you've created a false dichotomy, and then laid the burden of proof on others, and THEN when presented with plausible options, you've still stayed steadfast in your resolve of doing anything you can to diminish Watson. You've realized the limitations with O'Brien, but yet claim that other ROOKIE/2-3rd year NFL QBs or even COLLEGE SENIORS are/will be better than Deshaun Watson. LOL - YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO YOUR OPINION .. you are a TT OG, and up until the Watson selection had incredible input and perspective (still do for the record when it isn't Watson related). You've created a vendetta and have walked so far out on that limb that there is only one way to go! Using the "hope i'm wrong" line doesn't justify or validate you in the future it will only make you even more smug if this team were to win with Watson, but that's only half the fun! The path of rugged terrain leading to the summit is always the most treasured and revered by mountaineers because it teaches you humility and determination. Two things that Deshaun Watson has an abundance of.
Attachments are tough. I can empathize. I can only hope Watson continues to do things that make it harder and harder to criticize and allow people like yourself to enjoy the journey.
the whatboutism in relation to Bill OBrien is secondary. OBrien had/has/IS committing the same mistakes in year 6 as in year 1, but he seems to get a pass and an excuse parade for any one of his issues, but he has gotten "better". I mean honestly how hard would it be to coach a team with this kind of talent on it? I think its harder to screw things up and thats exactly what happens at times. If it truly is boiled down to wins/losses/championships well OBrien is still looking for one of those ... AT ANY LEVEL.
Im open for dialogue at any time, but I will generously return any intentional smear campaign with the same energy because its a reflection of our times. YOu cant just allow purposeful deceit, and gaslighting to run rampant. Thats how lies become truths.
Nice chat. Be well.
He just posted that. No other instances other than the Ravens game has he even been slightly critical of DW4.
SMH
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Here's how my olive branch went:
you really cant teach an old dog new tricks. why do I even bother.
you really cant teach an old dog new tricks. why do I even bother.
I haven't created a false anything. I'm just giving my opinions.
Thanks for the compliment
You're wrong when you say that I dont want DW4 to succeed. I want him to win a SB. Why? Because he is going to be here 5 more yrs. A vendetta? LMAO, because I dont think the Texans can win a championship with DW4 doesn't mean I dont want him to win a SB.
BOB- you've seen my thoughts on BOB, I believe they should find a new HC, not because BOB's as bad a HC as you and others make him out to be, but because what BOB wants to do and DW4's skillset dont match well. I also think bringing in a new HC isn't going to stop the 3-4 terrible plays DW4 makes almost every game and that's the reason I think DW4 wont win a championship.
We disagree so I'm running a smear campaign. SMH, I'm certainly not going to change your mind but if DW4 keeps making the same mistakes I'm going to point them out. I know you started up the JIC crowd, but he's currently not consistent enough to win a championship.
Peace out
Agreed folks around here think he has no room to improve.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
It has been said that there are members of this board against Watson. Lets not try to spin and deflect that it’s only one person saying these outrageous things in Watson’s favor.
That’s one thing I like about steel even if I disagree. He always takes accountability for what he says and doesn’t try to deflect or spin.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
No....local experts see him growing just fine. Internet trolls however......
I remember making a comment a while back, I didn't appreciate Carlos Hyde getting the ball after his 4th fumble in 3 games. If Hyde made big plays as frequently as Zeke, or Kamara, or McAfrey, I'd understand. But even the most consistent 6 yard gainer needs a breather after 4 fumbles in 3 games.
Now, Watson, he's that kind of playmaker you don't mind a turnover or two, because he generally makes more plays than turns the ball over.
Two INTs in one game... psssh.
But 4 in the last two games? 5 in the last 6?
I mean someone should be sayingsomething about it going into the playoffs. We need more 3 & 4 TD games to compensate.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I think posters here are just flat out passionate no matter where they fall and that's a good thing. However, people seem to be painting one another into a corner. I think those corners are flexible. I think there is a grey area and I think there IS a middle ground.
Watson does make costly mistakes. Watson has some magic...
He's young and we should expect improvement. He may not be ready right now but can he be seasoned into it?
Maybe that's what we should define? Is Watson ready to be a sb qb now vs. do you think theres a chance he could turn it to a guy who leads a sb team?
I think my opinion on the topic sways heavily on the present vs. potential...
Watson does make costly mistakes. Watson has some magic...
He's young and we should expect improvement. He may not be ready right now but can he be seasoned into it?
Maybe that's what we should define? Is Watson ready to be a sb qb now vs. do you think theres a chance he could turn it to a guy who leads a sb team?
I think my opinion on the topic sways heavily on the present vs. potential...
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
He’s in his 3rd year. Yes he makes mistakes. Yes he has bad games. Yes there’s plenty of room for improvement. Show me a 3rd year QB where that’s not the case. Hell, QBs headed to Canton have bad games and make mistakes still.
The problem with some posters here is that they expect that 3rd year QB to already be at that HOF level. He’s the franchise QB, he shouldn’t be making those mistakes. BULLSHIT!
Then because he’s not meeting their ridiculous expectations, they’re ready to trade him, or say ignorant things like they’d rather have Josh Allen.
They pull stuff like that out of their asses, throw it against the wall, and everyone swallows it up and calls it great conversation and making you think. BULLSHIT!!
I get educating someone on their ignorance of something, but when all the facts and links provided to back those facts up are ignored because hey, my opinion, then it’s just a troll job, especially when they argue as passionately and as often as they do without ever providing any solid, factual points themselves.
You don’t like Watson, fine. But if you going to complain about all the the things you complain about him, inconsistent, whatever the case may be, and say you’d rather have a QB who is even worse at the things you’re complaining about, you don’t really care about having intelligent conversations here. You just a ******* troll.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
steel has created such an uproar with his outlandish takes on Watson that people don’t have time to give fair assessments because they have to defend him against ridiculous comments. Such as he isn’t accurate enough, he’s not smart enough, he can’t read defenses, he doesn’t stay in the pocket etc. I’ve seen pretty much everyone acknowledge he can improve in areas but that doesn’t make him crap like some lead you to believe. He’s still a borderline top 5 QB which is amazing. Imagine what he will be like two years from now as the game continues to slow down for him.
They? Are you wrapped up in hyperbole?
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
my boiling point was when Josh Allen was said to be "progressing" more, and he somehow now had eclipsed Watson and had the more bloated career arc! Its what sensationalistic writers do for clicks .. its what Skip, Steven A, Shannon, Max Kellerman .. do. Get people riled up! Get them talking, get the juices flowing. I get it. Im here for it! Im going to keep presenting my opinions with the supplementary materials for everyone to make up their own minds in an EDUCATED fashion because I want so desperately for Texan fans to be known for their attention to detail. Passion. Football IQ.
We are already known as the simple country bumpkins, we have to change that perception and it starts with each one of us.
Anyways, lets address this first outlandish (im my opinion at least) take that Watson is not as good as Josh Allen:
Totals
Per Game
I limited the stats to their first two years in the league for an apples to apples its about the same amount of games. As you can see not only does Watson have the edge in every single statistical category except the per game rushing stats were actually IN FAVOR of Allen - an interesting anomaly, but Im certain if I added this year into the mix that figure would probably even out (maybe not I dunno).
Deshauns per year passing stats:
Passing
Josh Allen:
Passing
I omitted the career stats for formatting (irrelevant anyway). Sigh. Its pretty evident who the better passer and player is. Josh Allen is a game manager for a team who is being led by their defense, and he's doing a fine job of it. He has 6 comebacks and 8 game winning drives so far compared to Deshauns 8 comebacks and 9 game winning drives.
Josh Allen is a good player. Josh Allen is not in Deshaun Watsons class.
Next!!
We are already known as the simple country bumpkins, we have to change that perception and it starts with each one of us.
Anyways, lets address this first outlandish (im my opinion at least) take that Watson is not as good as Josh Allen:
Totals
| Rk | Player | From | To | AV | G | QBrec | Cmp | Att | Cmp% | Yds | TD | Rate | Lng | Int | Sk | Yds | Y/A | AY/A | NY/A | ANY/A | Att | Yds | TD | Y/A | Lng |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Passing | Rushing | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 1 | Josh Allen | 2018 | 2019 | 6 | 26 | 15-10-0 | 424 | 750 | 56.5 | 4950 | 28 | 77.5 | 75 | 21 | 62 | 418 | 6.6 | 6.09 | 5.58 | 5.11 | 191 | 1098 | 17 | 5.7 | 45 |
| 2 | Deshaun Watson | 2017 | 2018 | 23 | 23 | 14-8-0 | 471 | 709 | 66.4 | 5864 | 45 | 103.1 | 73 | 17 | 81 | 500 | 8.3 | 8.46 | 6.79 | 6.96 | 135 | 820 | 7 | 6.1 | 49 |
| Rk | Player | From | To | Cmp | Att | Yds | TD | Int | Sk | Yds | Att | Yds | TD |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Passing | Rushing | ||||||||||||
| 1 | Josh Allen | 2018 | 2019 | 16.3 | 28.8 | 190.4 | 1.1 | 0.8 | 2.4 | 16.1 | 7.3 | 42.2 | 0.7 |
| 2 | Deshaun Watson | 2017 | 2018 | 20.5 | 30.8 | 255.0 | 2.0 | 0.7 | 3.5 | 21.7 | 5.9 | 35.7 | 0.3 |
Deshauns per year passing stats:
Passing
| Year | Age | Tm | Pos | No. | G | GS | QBrec | Cmp | Att | Cmp% | Yds | TD | TD% | Int | Int% | 1D | Lng | Y/A | AY/A | Y/C | Y/G | Rate | QBR | Sk | Yds | NY/A | ANY/A | Sk% | 4QC | GWD | AV |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2017 | 22 | HOU | qb | 4 | 7 | 6 | 3-3-0 | 126 | 204 | 61.8 | 1699 | 19 | 9.3 | 8 | 3.9 | 85 | 72 | 8.3 | 8.4 | 13.5 | 242.7 | 103.0 | 83.6 | 19 | 116 | 7.10 | 7.19 | 8.5 | 7 | ||
| 2018* | 23 | HOU | QB | 4 | 16 | 16 | 11-5-0 | 345 | 505 | 68.3 | 4165 | 26 | 5.1 | 9 | 1.8 | 215 | 73 | 8.2 | 8.5 | 12.1 | 260.3 | 103.1 | 60.7 | 62 | 384 | 6.67 | 6.87 | 10.9 | 5 | 5 | 16 |
| 2019* | 24 | HOU | QB | 4 | 14 | 14 | 9-5-0 | 314 | 463 | 67.8 | 3668 | 26 | 5.6 | 11 | 2.4 | 184 | 54 | 7.9 | 8.0 | 11.7 | 262.0 | 100.4 | 70.0 | 39 | 234 | 6.84 | 6.89 | 7.8 | 3 | 4 |
Josh Allen:
Passing
| Year | Age | Tm | Pos | No. | G | GS | QBrec | Cmp | Att | Cmp% | Yds | TD | TD% | Int | Int% | 1D | Lng | Y/A | AY/A | Y/C | Y/G | Rate | QBR | Sk | Yds | NY/A | ANY/A | Sk% | 4QC | GWD | AV |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2018 | 22 | BUF | QB | 17 | 12 | 11 | 5-6-0 | 169 | 320 | 52.8 | 2074 | 10 | 3.1 | 12 | 3.8 | 89 | 75 | 6.5 | 5.4 | 12.3 | 172.8 | 67.9 | 49.8 | 28 | 213 | 5.35 | 4.37 | 8.0 | 2 | 3 | 6 |
| 2019 | 23 | BUF | QB | 17 | 14 | 14 | 10-4-0 | 255 | 430 | 59.3 | 2876 | 18 | 4.2 | 9 | 2.1 | 138 | 51 | 6.7 | 6.6 | 11.3 | 205.4 | 84.6 | 44.9 | 34 | 205 | 5.76 | 5.66 | 7.3 | 4 | 5 |
I omitted the career stats for formatting (irrelevant anyway). Sigh. Its pretty evident who the better passer and player is. Josh Allen is a game manager for a team who is being led by their defense, and he's doing a fine job of it. He has 6 comebacks and 8 game winning drives so far compared to Deshauns 8 comebacks and 9 game winning drives.
Josh Allen is a good player. Josh Allen is not in Deshaun Watsons class.
Next!!
Fred
Veteran
Actually that proves steel wrong because he says Watson has not progressed, and that at this stage in his career will never progress. So if you think Watson has gotten better at reading defenses you are in fundamental disagreement with steel.
You wouldn't think DW4 is capable of learning anything according to one around these parts.
Mod Note meant for all:
The responsibility of other posters is to express their opinion, but not fall into the trap of thinking they are going to be one "to talk sense" into another poster when that poster has dug in. Not like SteelB is unfamiliar (nor is the only one to dig in). This now a multi-thread chase for some. This type of repetitive stuff has been a point of complaints by many. Just want help so that this board can be for as many people as possible with as many viewpoints as possible.
May all read and follow this. The forum has become more of bashing the unpopular (steelb) opinion than discussing the Texans
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
Good posts - and I for one am out of the "change SteelB's mind" trap - would like to see and discuss other things. If I relapse someone call my sponsor...
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
Speaking of talking football - this play irked me for during the Titans game, Watson probably should have not thrown this pass but there are some that hold to the 'throw the ball and let your playmakers make a play' theory.
I know Duke isn't a receiver - but would have liked to see him attack the ball on this play if he takes two steps toward the ball instead of going to his knees worst-case is probably an incompletion, next worse is a completion at like the 1 or 2-yard line, and the best case he catches at the 1 or 2 the hard-charging safety runs past him and he walks into the endzone.
My opinion anyway - thoughts?
I know Duke isn't a receiver - but would have liked to see him attack the ball on this play if he takes two steps toward the ball instead of going to his knees worst-case is probably an incompletion, next worse is a completion at like the 1 or 2-yard line, and the best case he catches at the 1 or 2 the hard-charging safety runs past him and he walks into the endzone.
My opinion anyway - thoughts?
Texansballer74
The Marine
Duke is a great receiving back. Some blamed Watson for this but Duke should’ve attached the ball verses dropping to his knees. This play irked me as well.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
There were several things wrong with this play that irk'd me.
- It looks like pre-snap, DW saw single-high safety and one-one for Duke against a LB. After the snap, he looked there first, but saw the other safety bail and went cover two. So DW went to his 2nd progression, but WHY are Fuller & Nuk extremely close to each other on their route? Most likely someone ran a wrong route, because there were absolutely no receivers attacking the middle of the field. It was all sideline routes as if we were trying to save time.
- So DW checks back to his left. At this point, this is where DW should have thrown the ball to Duke, but he hesitated. Why? Don't know. Maybe he checked on the TE (Akins I think) first and didn't notice Duke was coming open.
- DW started to feel the pressure to his right because the DE threw Clark to the ground. So DW stepped up before firing the ball.
- Then as you said, Duke waited on the ball instead of attacking it. Also, DW threw the ball more inside than he needed to. Should have thrown it more towards the pylon.
- Nuk or Fuller for running a wrong route (or BOB on poor route combination)
- DW4 on not throwing the ball earlier to Duke, as well as throwing it too inside.
- Clark for easily getting beat, causing DW to double-pump his throw.
- Duke for not attacking the ball.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I mostly think he should've just taken off & ran it there which is what i thought he was gonna do at first. Would've only netted a few yards..maybe more if he gives the LB a little shake there but it wouldn't have been an int. But your options are plausible too.
I really think that Duke got a bit lasidasical there
Texansballer74
The Marine
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
OK - just continuing the thoughts on that one particular play breakdown (interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on this).
I think Doc has pointed this out a few times - but Watson is still hesitating on his throws...
This first picture is pretty much when Watson's backfoot plants (or a fraction of a second before) - so if everyone was running the route they were supposed to be running (big if since Hop and WFV are only 3 yards apart at their break, but could be) Watson needs to trust that Hop or WFV will win their battle and be open... which as it happens...
The throwing the receiver open theory - if he had released at the end(top) of his drop back and threw to where Hop or WFV is 'going' to be then I think either is a completion (but man are they really bunched up) but given how quickly he comes off the recievers on that side of the field, could he have just been trying to look off/confuse the safety and Duke was the primary target all along? (this is my opinion but yeah I think it was a decoy, and the play was to Duke)
Like I mentioned I think Duke was the primary receiver all along, and if Watson would have thrown when he first gets his head around, and puts the ball on the X that's a TD. But like MrTex said it looks like Watson is already getting ready to take off instead of throw... and that is probably because #77 is about ready to eat some turf and Watson is hearing footsteps behind him.
Your starting right tackle folks - hopefully, passive resistance isn't Devlin's main coaching technique...
Anyway all my thoughts, and what do I know, but thought it would be interesting to discuss as this one play seems to have a lot of the issues we bring up.
- Watson being more decisive and throwing the ball on time
- Piss poor blocking at times (to often)
- Receiver routes being too closely bunched
Please discuss...
I think Doc has pointed this out a few times - but Watson is still hesitating on his throws...
This first picture is pretty much when Watson's backfoot plants (or a fraction of a second before) - so if everyone was running the route they were supposed to be running (big if since Hop and WFV are only 3 yards apart at their break, but could be) Watson needs to trust that Hop or WFV will win their battle and be open... which as it happens...
The throwing the receiver open theory - if he had released at the end(top) of his drop back and threw to where Hop or WFV is 'going' to be then I think either is a completion (but man are they really bunched up) but given how quickly he comes off the recievers on that side of the field, could he have just been trying to look off/confuse the safety and Duke was the primary target all along? (this is my opinion but yeah I think it was a decoy, and the play was to Duke)
Like I mentioned I think Duke was the primary receiver all along, and if Watson would have thrown when he first gets his head around, and puts the ball on the X that's a TD. But like MrTex said it looks like Watson is already getting ready to take off instead of throw... and that is probably because #77 is about ready to eat some turf and Watson is hearing footsteps behind him.
Your starting right tackle folks - hopefully, passive resistance isn't Devlin's main coaching technique...
Anyway all my thoughts, and what do I know, but thought it would be interesting to discuss as this one play seems to have a lot of the issues we bring up.
- Watson being more decisive and throwing the ball on time
- Piss poor blocking at times (to often)
- Receiver routes being too closely bunched
Please discuss...
Attachments
Max
Veteran
I think the throw to Hopkins is there and the spacing is fine when you watch the video. If Watson anticipates the break, DHop is going to catch the ball most of the time if it's shaded towards the sideline. DHop might be a little late in his break, but that should still have been his target. Put it where no one else can get it and live to play another down if DHop isn't ready for it (it was 2nd down).
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I think a throw to Hopkins would have been risky there, as the corner on Fuller was right in the passing lane. Sure, he could have lob'd it over him, but that's a much slower throw, and Hopkins' corner could have possibly break in front of Hop to deflect the pass. Sure, a completion to Hopkins there is a possibility, but I think it's a low percentage throw. My guess is someone ran a wrong route, so DW bailed on Fuller & Hop as options quick.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
In "Pic 3", I agree that's where the thrown should have been made. Would be good to hear from DW why it wasn't.
Max
Veteran
I'm almost positive that we had one picked off earlier in the year on the same play where the db on fuller got back like you described and made a great play on the ball. So Watson probably hasn't forgotten about that and is a little hesitant. I still think that in the film room they would have told him that he needs to make that throw to DHop in that situation. Receivers coach would probably be telling DHop that he has to get out of his break quicker too.
If we (meaning the Texans) go into the playoffs thinking DW4 has to win us a Super Bowl, it just ain't going to happen.
Offensively Hop & Hyde has to have the mentality that they are going to win it for him.
Bill O'Brien has got to be committed to putting DW4 in a position to succeed on every snap.
& somebody on that OL has got to own it... become the leader.
That's not to say DW4 doesn't have to play well, he does. But everybody shouldn't be expecting him to be that guy. He's young & still learning.
Seems like this is a common problem that’s been showing up in every game. It looks like when the receivers are going for a Hail Mary pass. lol
You know, I smh when I see power rankings move a team up four spots one week because they beat so & so team. Then move them back five spots because they lose against another team.
They base their entire assessment of a team based on winning or losing. That's like saying the 12-4 Texans were the best Texans team ever.
We know that ain't true. Best results ever, yes. But we've had some damn good teams that underachieved for one reason or another.
So I'm thinking the same thing here. If someone thinks Josh Allen is a better QB right now than Deshaun Watson...
They're looking at it all wrong. Most likely basing it off of wins against Miami & NYJets.
I hear what you are saying, but he was going the other way. He was trying to get back & more or less fell.
Maybe. That's how I remembered it watching the replays during the game. I'll go back and watch it.
Texansballer74
The Marine
And a lot of times when Watson is under extreme pressure, his receivers are not coming back to the ball.
I never gave any thought to the post being removed... just wondering who 'they' are
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
The frustration in this thread is palpable toward one poster.
Rather than contaminate every gd thread here with some old argument why don't you take it to "the basement" thread in the non football forum. I've been given some small assurance by mods that there might be a bit more freedom to hash out differences in that thread. It might do a lot to clear the air for everyone and keep other threads on topic.
Additionally, you may have seen the "hot seat" thread focusing on @steelbtexan . He's slowly (very slowly - my fault) getting a chance to voice his real opinions on a number of topics. Maybe if you let it play out and read his thoughts on things you'll change your mind. And maybe you wont ,but at least you'll have a better ideal of what he's arguing.
There's been a recent renovation on this site and I love it. In regard to "that one poster" though, things have declined in mass. There seems an attack by someone here in every 4th or 5th post I read no matter the thread topic. It's ridiculous.
Personally, and to get back on topic, I saw Trent Farris Dilfer win a super bowl. I know with the right supporting cast Watson can to. That doesn't make him flawless...
End rant.
Rather than contaminate every gd thread here with some old argument why don't you take it to "the basement" thread in the non football forum. I've been given some small assurance by mods that there might be a bit more freedom to hash out differences in that thread. It might do a lot to clear the air for everyone and keep other threads on topic.
Additionally, you may have seen the "hot seat" thread focusing on @steelbtexan . He's slowly (very slowly - my fault) getting a chance to voice his real opinions on a number of topics. Maybe if you let it play out and read his thoughts on things you'll change your mind. And maybe you wont ,but at least you'll have a better ideal of what he's arguing.
There's been a recent renovation on this site and I love it. In regard to "that one poster" though, things have declined in mass. There seems an attack by someone here in every 4th or 5th post I read no matter the thread topic. It's ridiculous.
Personally, and to get back on topic, I saw Trent Farris Dilfer win a super bowl. I know with the right supporting cast Watson can to. That doesn't make him flawless...
End rant.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
My interpretation of the Vaccaro INT:
Going to Duke was the right play. There was a breakdown initially. Deshaun was late. He looked at the seam quickly to try and get some activity, then at the out routes, and by the time he scanned back across the field he lost Vaccaro and locked in on what appeared to be a wide open Duke Johnson. Throwing picks in the endzone are hard to swallow no sugar coating that. I have said it was a bad throw/play/recognition. EVEN THOUGH if Deshaun were to have been able to put a little more zip on the ball it would have made it, and I'm thinking Deshaun thought he was going to throw a better ball then what came out since he had to rush it. The wobble slowed down the pass just enough.
On the anticipatory throwing to the out routes: The only REAL passing lane he has on those routes is to the shallow out. Its the only clean look he has. Throwing it to the deeper route is begging for the shallow defender to peel off and take that to the house the other way. Digging deeper you can make the case the both of those routes were just decoy routes. The players come out of their breaks not even looking for the ball.
Duke had momentum moving forward, I don't think he could have made much play on the ball where it was thrown. Back corner, back hash maybe. He was open and threw his hand up, Deshaun needs to see him.
More than anything this should highlight the types of matchup issues lining up your RB as a wideout can cause. Motion him from the backfield into an X or Z and not only do you garner some coverage insight, but you make the defense think about who's man it is and maybe the LB has to now play CB and you should have open plays all over the place ... when you have a guy like Duke Johnson this should happen all the time.
Going to Duke was the right play. There was a breakdown initially. Deshaun was late. He looked at the seam quickly to try and get some activity, then at the out routes, and by the time he scanned back across the field he lost Vaccaro and locked in on what appeared to be a wide open Duke Johnson. Throwing picks in the endzone are hard to swallow no sugar coating that. I have said it was a bad throw/play/recognition. EVEN THOUGH if Deshaun were to have been able to put a little more zip on the ball it would have made it, and I'm thinking Deshaun thought he was going to throw a better ball then what came out since he had to rush it. The wobble slowed down the pass just enough.
On the anticipatory throwing to the out routes: The only REAL passing lane he has on those routes is to the shallow out. Its the only clean look he has. Throwing it to the deeper route is begging for the shallow defender to peel off and take that to the house the other way. Digging deeper you can make the case the both of those routes were just decoy routes. The players come out of their breaks not even looking for the ball.
Duke had momentum moving forward, I don't think he could have made much play on the ball where it was thrown. Back corner, back hash maybe. He was open and threw his hand up, Deshaun needs to see him.
More than anything this should highlight the types of matchup issues lining up your RB as a wideout can cause. Motion him from the backfield into an X or Z and not only do you garner some coverage insight, but you make the defense think about who's man it is and maybe the LB has to now play CB and you should have open plays all over the place ... when you have a guy like Duke Johnson this should happen all the time.
I keep watching it trying to determine if Hopkins went into his break a little late. At the point Watson would've been most certain of the depth Hop was running the route, he had to move up into the pocket and the moment was gone. Almost the same can be said for hitting Johnson as he broke open at about the 13. Watson is still looking right (by design to keep corner/safety closer to center, or going through his progressions, I'm not certain), and by the time he comes back left and steps up into the pocket, the safety has a chance to take a bead on the ball.