I dont think Watson is the worst QB in the NFL. Some weeks he's the best QB in the league. Other weeks he's in the bottom 1/3 and you cant win a championship that way.
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Takeaways from the Broncos game.
- Thread starter Texansphan
- Start date
I dont think Watson is the worst QB in the NFL. Some weeks he's the best QB in the league. Other weeks he's in the bottom 1/3 and you cant win a championship that way.
Oh, it's not funny at all that Tannehill is currently playing the QB position more consistently than DW4 is.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Coaching buddy. They are not trying to fit a square peg into a round one. If Obrien would stick to what works, we might see more consistent play from our very young QB and this entire offense.
If we can get consistent play from our offensive line, Watson play might improve.
If our receivers could get open consistently and that's without often injured Fuller. Watson wouldn't have to always improvise ( holding onto the ball).
If we would utilize Dukes talent more, we just might see consistency with Watson and this entire offense.
Conclusion: It's COACHING!!!!! They have to put this team in position to be successful.
As we witnessed this past Sunday, neither B'OB or RAC did that.
Did you see Boston Scott last night? I know. I was the same way, "Boston who?"
Not that I want what's his name for my coach, but I loved the way they found ways to get him the ball.
He's nobody. A practice squad player who was hot... they just kept feeding him. Most of that they made up on the spot. Drew it up in the sand.
But you're right. What's Boston Scott got to do with our team?
Texansballer74
The Marine
Texansballer74
The Marine
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Garrett.
Except they've had the same record almost with crap QB play before DW4 got here.
I guess BOB forgot how to coach or DW4 is just to inconsistent to lead the team to a SB.
Texansballer74
The Marine
I see you have forgotten or just refuses to acknowledge we had a top 5 defense during those years. Not only that our division was weak AF.
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Or the fact we had Foster when OB took over as coach for the Texans. Foster is way better than Hyde. We also had a better OL in the first two seasons when OB was here. But no, Watson just sucks and he’s mediocre while the same coach couldn’t develop a single player to save his life.
This is why you can‘t get rid of Watson. You can’t coach “clutch”. If our defense would have gotten some stops he’d have a few more against top teams on the road, Seattle and NE in his first season, Philadelphia last year and NO this year come to mind
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Tannehill is a good example of a QB that can do better with different coaches.
Miami should draft a QB like that this offseason.
Not sure how obrien having a bad offense before Watson got here proves anything
Texaninlild
Veteran
My only takeaway was me taking my toys out from the front of the 75" because my team didn't show up so why should I?
deucetx
Rookie
Takeaways...
1. Watson is still thinking he has to be the one to make the play by seeking the deeper throws when he should check to his tight ends or backs (or just go ahead and take off) though this also leads to #2...
2. We are not utilizing the shorter routes often enough. Sometimes they were there for Watson but most of the plays we were running more intermediate and deep routes or have one shallow route by our tight ends.
3. Our playcalling regarding routes are also not designed enough to open things up. We seem to rely more on player skillset than design. Not much for rub routes, twin underneath routes, running back screens (though we don't run screens great for some odd reason), etc. The separation we get is pedestrian far too often.
4. Our defense is horrid. No other way to put it. Mercilus still is not the consistent pass rush we need. At this point he's being overshadowed by Martin who should be out more on rush situations. Why are we giving 8-10 cushions so consistently or not even hiding it. If you want to do it so bad then put them in the receiver's face and then back off and try to disguise it more. We're easier to read than a Dr. Seuss book.
5. While I have been typing this Tunsil was whistled for false start again. How when we aren't playing yet? I don't know but I can feel he did so at practice.
6. What the heck happened to Stills? After we acquired him he showed the playmaking ability to fill in for Fuller for the inevitable injury. Now? He does a heck of a job of being Casper the Friendly Ghost.
7. Why abandon the run so quickly? It was working from the start. One could say because we were down early but this is what we did down 7-0 after getting the ball back:
Pass, pass, pass, run, pass, pass, pass.
Not to mention our mindset should have been we were going to run it down their throats from the start. The Broncos are a top ten passing defense. Run defense? Not so much. They are around 20th or so. That means the gameplan should have been a healthy dose of Hyde, Johnson and some Watson on option reads. Even down 14 it is a formula to stick with not to mention when you don't have a good defense time of possession is your friend.
8. Another false start by Tunsil. Come on big guy...
9. Our gameplan looked the opposite of what we traveled into the Pats game with. More inventive in opening things up that game compared to this one. We all saw something different in the scheme that game and then it seemed to revert to status quo for the ponies though honestly what we saw in the Pats game fits this personnel best. The way Duke was utilized was perfect. Taking advantage of Watson's movement ability, etc.
10. I will reserve the last point to give Kareem kudos. He looked silly flexing stopping a first down run but otherwise he kicked tail all over the field. Ironic he was playing safety which I know some of us here said for a few years he would be best suited.
1. Watson is still thinking he has to be the one to make the play by seeking the deeper throws when he should check to his tight ends or backs (or just go ahead and take off) though this also leads to #2...
2. We are not utilizing the shorter routes often enough. Sometimes they were there for Watson but most of the plays we were running more intermediate and deep routes or have one shallow route by our tight ends.
3. Our playcalling regarding routes are also not designed enough to open things up. We seem to rely more on player skillset than design. Not much for rub routes, twin underneath routes, running back screens (though we don't run screens great for some odd reason), etc. The separation we get is pedestrian far too often.
4. Our defense is horrid. No other way to put it. Mercilus still is not the consistent pass rush we need. At this point he's being overshadowed by Martin who should be out more on rush situations. Why are we giving 8-10 cushions so consistently or not even hiding it. If you want to do it so bad then put them in the receiver's face and then back off and try to disguise it more. We're easier to read than a Dr. Seuss book.
5. While I have been typing this Tunsil was whistled for false start again. How when we aren't playing yet? I don't know but I can feel he did so at practice.
6. What the heck happened to Stills? After we acquired him he showed the playmaking ability to fill in for Fuller for the inevitable injury. Now? He does a heck of a job of being Casper the Friendly Ghost.
7. Why abandon the run so quickly? It was working from the start. One could say because we were down early but this is what we did down 7-0 after getting the ball back:
Pass, pass, pass, run, pass, pass, pass.
Not to mention our mindset should have been we were going to run it down their throats from the start. The Broncos are a top ten passing defense. Run defense? Not so much. They are around 20th or so. That means the gameplan should have been a healthy dose of Hyde, Johnson and some Watson on option reads. Even down 14 it is a formula to stick with not to mention when you don't have a good defense time of possession is your friend.
8. Another false start by Tunsil. Come on big guy...
9. Our gameplan looked the opposite of what we traveled into the Pats game with. More inventive in opening things up that game compared to this one. We all saw something different in the scheme that game and then it seemed to revert to status quo for the ponies though honestly what we saw in the Pats game fits this personnel best. The way Duke was utilized was perfect. Taking advantage of Watson's movement ability, etc.
10. I will reserve the last point to give Kareem kudos. He looked silly flexing stopping a first down run but otherwise he kicked tail all over the field. Ironic he was playing safety which I know some of us here said for a few years he would be best suited.
iirc, Moon had three coaches in H-town - Hugh Campbell (for a year), Jerry Glanville, and Jack Pardee.
He didn't get any of them fired. Bud fired coaches just because, he never needed reasons (which is why he fired Bum after going to the playoffs).
And in Minny Moon had Dennis Green, who was there when Moon arrived and there when he left.
I guess I'm just not following your coach killer comment or how you define it?
Of course you're just giving your thoughts, that's what this forum is all about.
I understand your point about #4. He needs to be more consistent as a QB and team leader. This team will go as he goes. Where we disagree is that you appear to believe that he will never be consistent, and I think he can be with the right coaching and more experience.
What makes me think he can improve is his talent, his intelligence, his dedication to football, his dedication to being a better QB, and he's got a clutch gene that you cannot teach. He's also a natural leader of men and a high quality character guy that people want to rally behind. He's got both the tangibles and intangibles, and now just needs the right mentor and teacher to help mold him into greatness. I don't believe Bill O'Brien is that guy in the long run.
ALL QBs come into the league green behind the ears. What he's shown so far is immense talent that needs more experience. I understand if you disagree. I'm sure we both hope that I am right, tho'.
Tannehill has been so consistent, Miami traded him for a 6th round pick. He will be a free agent next year, maybe you can talk your friends at NRG into signing him and trading Watson.
IMHO, the opinion started on a false premise and is not based on facts, stats or even logic. As a result, I doubt your stats based post will be acknowledged.
iirc, Moon had three coaches in H-town - Hugh Campbell (for a year), Jerry Glanville, and Jack Pardee.
He didn't get any of them fired. Bud fired coaches just because, he never needed reasons (which is why he fired Bum after going to the playoffs).
And in Minny Moon had Dennis Green, who was there when Moon arrived and there when he left.
I guess I'm just not following your coach killer comment or how you define it?
Of course you're just giving your thoughts, that's what this forum is all about.
I understand your point about #4. He needs to be more consistent as a QB and team leader. This team will go as he goes. Where we disagree is that you appear to believe that he will never be consistent, and I think he can be with the right coaching and more experience.
What makes me think he can improve is his talent, his intelligence, his dedication to football, his dedication to being a better QB, and he's got a clutch gene that you cannot teach. He's also a natural leader of men and a high quality character guy that people want to rally behind. He's got both the tangibles and intangibles, and now just needs the right mentor and teacher to help mold him into greatness. I don't believe Bill O'Brien is that guy in the long run.
ALL QBs come into the league green behind the ears. What he's shown so far is immense talent that needs more experience. I understand if you disagree. I'm sure we both hope that I am right, tho'.
Great post, I'm glad we can agree to disagree and .over on. Unlike some of the other posters.
I think Moon had at least 6 HC's during his career. He killed the Oilers. I feel as though 35-3 followed by the Chiefs debacle killed the franchise and Moon's was the leader of the band.
Miami? They were moving on from a frequently injured QB.
Tannehill has been very good and consistent in the last month. More so than DW4.
A QB without his injury history.
Foster could not stay healthy by the time BOB got here. Talk to CnD about this.
As much as most don't want to agree with you, myself included, you are correct
Tannehill
Watson
Either the defense get a stop or we learn to run in the 4th Qtr. Either would have sealed a couple of wins.
This is crazy talk. We already have McCarron. We don't need no stinking Tannehill.
Arian Foster 2014 Stats
13 Games, 260 Carries, 1246 Yrds, 4.8 Yrds Avg, 95.8 Yrds per Game, 38 Rec for 327 Yrds, 1573 Yrds from Scrimmage
Made the pro bowl for the 4th time.
Was 6th in rushing in yards.
Was 2nd in rushing ave per game.
Was 5th in total yards from scrimmage.
Was 3rd in total yards from scrimmage ave per game.
He also ran Foster to the ground when he got here. Too bad we never got another quality back to replace him.
Kubiak had a large part in this.
Umm....where was New England's pass defense ranked? Quit cherry picking to support your argument. The Denver game was a classic trap game and the coaching staff, as a whole, didn't have their squads ready to go. Pitiful game plans in all three phases. Pitiful execution in all three phases. Pitiful arguments by you in all three phases.
You have to give Tannehill credit. He's in a contract year and playing his way into a huge final contract. In Miami, he would have stretches of similar consistent play and either injuries or cooling off would derail his season. Titans will have a tough contract decision. Water always finds its level. I hope for our sake, this is just Tannehill playing out of his mind for a new contract.
Another interesting note. Vrabel's first OC (Matt Lafleur) was from the Shanny/Kubiak offense. After Lafluer left for Green Bay, I believe the rookie OC is still running the same offense and terminology. Notice Vrabel didn't try to implement the Patriots EP offense?
I still can't believe the Texans had Matt Lafleur and Kyle Shanahan on the coaching staff and now they are two of the youngest HCs in the NFL and known for their offensive minds. Even former Texans LB coach Robert Saleh who is the 49ers DC is considered a young, fast rising future HC.
Pitiful by the coaches/players waterboy etc....
Don't forget you!!! Pitiful!!! And FIFY.
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Thanks for the LOL
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
ah come on Santo, he only had a healthy Foster for one season. Kubiak ran him into the ground, but that shouldn't be a knock on Kubbiak either. Foster's body just didn't keep up. Everybody can't be Walter Payton or George Gore health wise.
I'd like to use steelb's argument against Watson and apply it here regarding Tannehill.
Tannehill has hardly seen a good defense.
Against a common opponent, the Chargers, Watson had a better game.
Unfortunately, it looks like his (Tannehill) streak against poor defenses will continue.
ShinobiMusashi
Waterboy
No way you can put that all on Moon. If anything Bud Adams killed the Oilers, the run and shoot offense killed the Oilers. It was a goofy trendy offensive system that was always doomed to fail in the NFL and it did badly, the writing was on the wall in 91 that the system was never going to win a Super Bowl when Washington mopped the floor with the 4 main teams that lived and died by it(they manhandled Detroit and Atlanta in regular season and again in playoffs, beat Houston, and in the Super Bowl dominated Buffalo who at the time was still using a version of it). The Oilers stuck with it too long and it cost them in those losses in 92-93 playoffs.
Buddy Ryan was right about the Run and Shoot offense, it was a joke they should have fired Pardee and run Gilbride out of town after The Comeback and just given Ryan the head coaching job. Instead Jim Eddy took the blame for The Comeback and gets fired and goes on to win 2 rings with Dallas.
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Yep, well said.
A 35-3 lead should be protected by running the clock. But the Oilers R&S didn't even have a FB or TE on the roster. They had no option for a power run game. Like you said, it was a trendy scheme and Buddy was right to call it the chuck & duck. There has never been a pure R&S roster in the NFL since the Oilers.
And last I checked, Moon never played defense. I've hated prevent defenses ever since that game. That's what blew a 32 point lead in less than a half. Soft coverage and lack of pressure on Frank Reich just let them do whatever they wanted like it was a scrimmage game.
The lesson is never be so married to a scheme that you are unable to adapt to new parameters. O'Brien is so enamored with his own brilliant brain that he's unable to adapt to his current talent and circumstances. Keep slamming that square peg into a round hole because of stubborn arrogance.
This is an excellent listen. Thanks for sharing. Like many posters keep trying to reiterate. The offensive inconsistency is multiple players and coaches screwing up from series to series. It starts with the shoddy game plans that have players wondering about their roles on a weekly basis, to the OL, WRs and QB.
Max
Veteran
I think that this game has Cal thinking about cutting ties w/ BOB at the end of the season. All of that changes if we end the season strong and get to the AFCCG or we have a solid performance but end up losing prior to that. But the leash got shortened drastically after this game and got things headed in the direction of firing BOB and it gets followed through on if we have a poor showing in any round of the playoffs short of and possibly even including the AFCCG.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Coaches that utilized this offense didn't fully understand the SOP for operating it.....especially Pardee when he had the Oilers up 35-3 over the Bills and Kelly out.
The offense is known as the Run-N-Shoot. When used in CFB and ran the proper way, media went nuts b/c many team took severe beatings while the team who ran it for 4 full quarters sometimes put up stupid numbers like 60+ points and 600+ yards. The offense wasn't a time consuming offense......it was designed to go full throttle.
Pardee, took his foot off the gas pedal and tried to dial back the attack by consuming the clock with a running game that had no FB or TE's on the roster. Had he came out and continued the onslaught......it should've ended up more like 63 or 70 to 3. I absolutely hate the unwritten rule of not running up the score on an opposing team.
A mechanic cherishes his Ford Pinto. He buys a new car and proceeds to replace the engine with an engine from a Ford Pinto. SteelB rides in the new car, it stalls and he immediately yells, "Your new car runs like a crappy Pinto." At some point, it's not the car. It's the mechanic who keeps stuffing parts from a Pinto into his new cars.
ShinobiMusashi
Waterboy
It's wildly interesting to me, ive become obsessesed with the death of the Oilers and through that wildly obsessed with the rise and fall of the run and shoot.
As a mega nerd for nfl history I'm always going down these rabbit holes. Like right now I'm fascinated by the 1993 season in general, to the point where I'd actually like to write a book about it. Very interesting season.