austins23
Hall of Fame
These next 3 games will show us what Billy O has as a game planner and HC.
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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!
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maverick512000
Hall of Fame
So yeah clearly you haven't been paying attention around here. Pretty sure I was in favor of the Tunsil trade even when it was first made. Not sure why you decided to show up and start waving the Bill O'Brien flag all over the place but you could at least actually read what people have wrote.
My only complaint about that deal was that they didn't get an extension done as part of the deal ….
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Which I still think was Tunsil and/or his agent saying "Nah, we'll wait to see what the market looks like next year but you guys will get the first chance to make an offer."
Here , some educational reading ….
Poll: How Has Bill O’Brien Done As Head Coach Of The Houston Texans?
Let’s look at the stats and see.www.battleredblog.com
TIER 1 (>70.0 Total QBR - The "Cream of the Crop, Best of the-What?!" Class): Record vs. Tier 1 level QBs: 1-5
Andy Dalton - 72.5 in 2015END. BLEEPING. LIST.Summary: The Red Rifle?! Put some respect on that man's name! Making Katy proud!Conclusion: Andy Dalton is the only quarterback Bill O'Brien has EVER beaten with a QBR over 70 for that particular season in which he won. Andy. Freakin'. Dalton.houston.sportsmap.com
I pretty much agree with this except there were plays there to be made in the Carolina game that Watson missed and the good thing is this loss lead to BOB changing the offense.
The Colts game Watson had a bad game although they still could've won if they hadn't gotten Indy'ed by the refs.
Bottom line for me is they've had a chance to win every game and you could argue should've won every game. You wouldn't be in that position if BOB was as bad as some on this MB make him out to be. Although he does have issues that he needs to improve on.
I give BOB a pass for the Tricky Ricky yrs but the next 3 weeks will tell us alot about BOB and where the Texans really are when they are facing 3 playoff teams including the defending SB champions that run 3 different styles of offense. BOB needs to come up big as well as Watson need to play well. I'm looking forward to seeing how Watson does because he needs to be able to play well for 3 weeks in a row because that's what he's going to need to do in the playoffs and it could very well be against these 3 teams that he needs to play well against in the playoffs.
theCATALYST
Football Messiah
Texans head coach Bill O’Brien is currently 49-44, good for a .527 win percentage, giving him the highest win/loss percentage of the three long-term Texans coaches (Dom Capers ended at .281 and Gary Kubiak at .488).
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Yeah at the beginning of the season it was " lets see how BoB does with our tough schedule" -............ 6-3 so far...
Then it was lets see if he can keep up the good showing on offense from the saints game..............ranked 3rd in total offense....9th in PPG
Now its "these next 3 games"...
O'Brian's record against above 500 teams with & without Watson.
Before Watson Including Playoffs & Last 9 Games of 2017
2014: 2/6 .250
2015: 2/4 .333
2016: 4/6 .400
2017: 0/4 .000 9 Games without Watson
------------------------------------
Total: 8/20 .285
After Watson Including Playoffs & First 7 Games of 2017
2017: 1/4 .250 7 Games with Watson
2018: 3/5 .375
2019: 1/3 .250
------------------------------------
Total: 5/12 .294
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Mr.Scarface
Rookie
Damn...your math is terrible. 3/5 is 60 percent....lol. 1/3 is 33% 2/4 is 50%. 4/6 is 66.6%. 5/12 is 41.7 percent.
8/20 is 40%.
Dude...go back to elementary school.
With that said.....over and under .500 teams is meaningless until you get to the playoffs. Win 16 games against under .500 team is still 16-0. You worry about the team in front you, no matter the record.
Lose 5 games against above .500 teams and win 11 games against below .500 vs win 10 games against above .500 teams and lose 6 to below .500 teams. Who gets home field? Exactly. Will it make a difference in the game? Maybe....the point is none of it matters until the playoffs.
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I'm sorry that I did not explain it so you could understand it.
8/20 = 8 wins & 20 losses.
Which means 8 wins out of 28 games.
Which = .285 win percentage.
I hope that clears things up for you.
I agree playoffs are what count. O'Brians record in the playoffs is 1/3 .250.
I will explain that. It means 1 win & 3 losses. The math is 1 win out of 4 games. Which equals .250 or 25%.
The only team he has beat in the playoffs had a rookie quarterback starting his first game in the NFL.
Um …. maybe its your math that's broken -
Just the Post Watson numbers since that's all that matters.
1 And 4 - That's 5 games a % of .200 (he has that one .250)
3 And 5 - that's 8 games. His number is correct.
1 And 3 - that's 4 games. His number is correct.
The total - 17 games. His number is correct.
Maybe you owe someone an apology ?!
Come on man. You aren't going to sit there and defend this position - Its just silly to say wins and losses don't matter , that quality of competition doesn't matter.
Nothing mattered before Watson , well , .294 against .500 or better competition spoke volumes. So you move the goalpost - Nothing matters until you get to the playoffs. The beatdown they took against the Chiefs and the embarrassment they suffered against the Dolts not to mention the .250 winning percentage - they speak for themselves too.
OB doesn't need you to move the goalpost - What he needs to do is more of what he did against the Jags and Chiefs. If he coaches like that - You wont hear me complain a bit.
If he coaches like the first Jags game , Carolina , the Dolts or even that abysmal Raiders game they somehow won - Yeah , I got some complaining to do.
I know this post wasn't in response to me.
I haven't moved the goalposts, I expected it to take 3 yrs to recover from the reign of Tricky Ricky.
He's right. I do need to go back to elementary school. Here are the corrected numbers.
Without Watson:
2014: 2/6 .250
2015: 2/4 .333
2016: 4/6 .400
2017: 0/5 .000 9 Games without Watson
------------------------------------
Total: 8/21 .275
With Watson:
2017: 1/4 .200 7 Games with Watson
2018: 3/5 .375
2019: 1/3 .250
------------------------------------
Total: 5/12 .294
Overall record (including playoffs)
13/33 .282
Still the point remains that until O'Brian starts winning against the better teams (in regular season or playoffs) all we are doing is spinning our wheels.
Mr.Scarface
Rookie
Since I may have misread the percentages you were referencing, I apologize.
I couldn't care less if he beats .500 or above teams in the regular season......doesn't matter except for tie breakers. If he goes 12-4 and gets a bye by beating bad teams...so be it. It only matter that you beat them in the playoffs.
If you cant beat them in the regular season , what makes you think he's suddenly going to beat them in the post season ?
If you aint good enough , you aint good enough. That's the bottom line.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Yeah at the beginning of the season it was " lets see how BoB does with our tough schedule" -............ 6-3 so far...
Then it was lets see if he can keep up the good showing on offense from the saints game..............ranked 3rd in total offense....9th in PPG
Now its "these next 3 games"...
You realize the guy is in his 6th year here, right? If he's FINALLY figuring shit out, then so be it. He's more than earned a prove it first attitude of fans.
Mr.Scarface
Rookie
I'll take my chances with Watson, since in 32 starts...Texans have only lost games more than 7 points ONCE.
I'll take my chances with Watson too …. but that's not the point of this conversation , again you are moving the goalposts.
We were discussing OB and his inability to beat teams over .500 - regular season or post.
If the OB that called the Chiefs / Jags games shows up on a regular basis …. we wont be having this conversation. Hell we might be hoisting a Lombardi ….
If the one that called the Carolina game , Raiders , Dolts or Jags first game shows up regularly …. he wont be around much longer , the excuses have run out.
austins23
Hall of Fame
Wouldn’t you say that these next three games are significant in the overall success of the season? Playoff seeding being most important. They go 0-3 in this stretch, that 9th in PPG and 3rd in total offense statistics don’t mean much.Yeah at the beginning of the season it was " lets see how BoB does with our tough schedule" -............ 6-3 so far...
Then it was lets see if he can keep up the good showing on offense from the saints game..............ranked 3rd in total offense....9th in PPG
Now its "these next 3 games"...
These 3 games are the difference between a 2/3 seed or 5/6 seed.
Only the 2nd without RS.
It's going to take 3 yrs to clean up the mess that was left and gain experience.
Mr.Scarface
Rookie
Raiders game? Texans scored 27 points in the game.....moved the ball well. The problem was the injuries on Defense. The first Jags game was injuries on offense...Stills and Fulton and the Jags having a good Defensive plan. Colts, again, injuries. Let's pick and choose...while ignoring other things. Geez.....your hate is irrational.
The talent/depth has really only been there this yr.
Agreed about the Chiefs/Jags
There were plays to be made that were missed against Carolina. But atleast BOB recognized his offense didn't fit Watson and changed it.
The Texans got Indy'ed pure and simple.
Watson made a great play against the Raiders and BOB had a bad day calling plays.
You are looking at point totals and making excuses.
The first half of that Raiders game the offense was pretty much abysmal.
They had possession 7 times in that first half - 3 and out , 7 plays and punt , 6 plays TD , 3 and out , 3 and out , 11 plays FG , 1 play - end of half.
All those 3 and outs in the first half - Yep , they sure moved the ball fantastic.
The first Jags game was straight up on OB - He called a horrid game. Couldn't count the number of times two receivers would end up outside the hashmarks within a few yards of each other and much like the Carolina game , he kept calling deep routes into that two deep shell.
Really , you picked the wrong guy to engage on this topic …
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
ehh you guys stay moving the goalposts b/c ya’ll don’t understand that the primary difference between success and failure on the field is execution, not the playcall or the offense itself.
if we go 3-0 in the next 3 games, the next thing you guys will be talking about is “he has to win a game in the playoffs to prove to me”...it’s like the actual players on the field and what they do or don’t do don’t exist or matter to u guys...
We have lost 2 times by more than 7 points when Watson started.
10/8/2017 Chiefs 42 Texans 34 - 8 point loss
01/5/2019 Colts 21 Texans 7 - 14 point loss
Having said that I agree and I'll take my chances with Watson also.
But this thread is about taking our chances with O'Brian which is a whole different story.
Let's talk about how many points we have lost by under O'Brian in the post season.
In the playoffs we have been outscored in 4 games 99 to 50 including the 1 game we won.
In the playoff games that we lost (3 games) we were outscored 85 to 23 (including the game Watson started).
It has felt like to me that we have been out classed in the playoffs every year since O'Brian has been here. After 5 years of horrible performances in the post season I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt anymore until he proves he can do better.
None bigger than the Indy game - They lose that one , it really doesn't matter what they do in the other two as they'll be all but cemented into no better than a wildcard spot.
An actual game behind Indy but literally two because they'd hold the tiebreaker.
Beating Baltimore gives you a shot at the 1/2 seed but a loss to Indy means no better than the 5. (unless of course Indy falls apart down the stretch).
Beat Indy and at worst your are a 3-4 seed - if you handle your business to close out the season.
Mr.Scarface
Rookie
Dude, the other team gets paid too. Raiders played well that first half. Too bad there is a 2nd Half.
388 total yards for the game, 17 points in the 2nd half (14 in the 4th). Cherry pick everything...I guess. I love that you ignore what you don't like. Was it a perfect game? NO.
Mr.Scarface
Rookie
My bad....meant to say lose by 1 score. Let's nitpick.
Losing by 30 is the same as losing by 1. You know why? You LOST.
Post season....1 game was Brain Hoyer stinking up the joint 30-0. Take that out.......69-50. Only 1 of those games was with Watson 14 points. So, his other QBs in those games were Brock Assweiler?
Brock
Hoyer
Watson (1 playoff game)...and he had a bad game.
We will see what Watson does with opportunity #2.
You can *****, You can whine, but B'OB isn't going anywhere...sorry. Might as well go root for the Cowboys and Saints.
BTW....what was Kubiak record in playoff games? 2-2. What round did he get to in HOUSTON? Divisional....same as B'OB. And Kubiak had better teams.......
So the colts are gonna win out with Brian Hoyer?
Bwahaha hahahaha tee-hee lmfaopmp
Why on earth are you arguing with me over this ?
They were bad in the first half - That was my original statement.
You think you are arguing with Joe Fan …. You aint.
I've probably been on the sidelines of more NFL games , going back to 1983 , than your boy OB - with Coaches named Reeves , Seifert , Shanahan , Phillips and Kubiak among others.
Brissett is already back at practice …. and may play this Sunday against the Dolphins.
I think they got better at one critical position …. Quarterback.
The team OB took over was a damn solid unit lacking one thing - a Quarterback.
Tricky Rick Drafted Watson …. by mandate from the owner but he did draft Watson.
I'm confused. If losing is losing why bring up what Watson lost by?
Mr.Scarface
Rookie
LOL. So you been on Sidelines. Big Whoop. How many games you coach as a Coordinator? Where you WATCH a game doesn't matter, we all have eyes and process the same information. My first memory of an NFL game was from 1978. Probably seen every Houston NFL game since then (of course don't have a memory of EVERYONE). Your opinion doesn't matter any more than mine does. You can spew out cherry picked stats.....so can I.
Look, unless you played or coached in the NFL, everyone's opinions carry the same weight. Maybe you did 1 of the 2 or both.
You don't want to argue...fine. Don't throw a bunch stats that are irrelevant to the current situation.
As I said before, these 3 games will show a lot about the Texans.
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I'm saying it now & have said it since the Miami trade, he has to be a bad call from winning the Super Bowl to prove he is worth a damn as a HC to me.
But I do agree. It's hard to tell the difference between BO'bs play calling & the team executing.
It seems we are running a lot more RPOs, but I used to complain that Watson doesn't keep the ball as he should when the DE crashes down.
Maybe that was because of his ACL last year.
But they are moving the pocket a lot lately where they flat out refused to move it before.
& it's hard for me to blame the play calling when I see Watson correcting receivers several times a game & QT is in the doghouse.
I hate BO'b, don't get it twisted. But if this team were healthy I'd feel very confident of a strong showing in the AFCCG, regardless what happens in our next three games.
But health is always a factor & I expect coaches to make up the difference, just like every other team.
I didn't throw useless stats out there - They were relevant to the conversation. OB's results as a head coach , and that is the conversation here.
Then when you don't like the result , you move the goalpost … those games don't matter.
Then those games don't matter either.
Bottom line , OB has earned any criticism he's gotten around here. There's been a long list of coaching mistakes on his part from poor playcalling to just downright silly stuff like calling a time out before throwing a challenge flag …. Not calling time outs when necessary to dumb challenges ... and clock management isn't my job! Well Bill , who's job is it if it isn't the head coaches job ? Its the Punters ?! Sure glad we had Lechler following him around ….
We're in year SIX and he's still making boneheaded mistakes. Year SIX of a three year rebuild. Yeah part of that is due to Tricky Rick …. Thank Bob for his parting gift as he gave the mandate to "Go Get A QB Damnit!"
…. At least there's something we agree on.
The Dolts game is the biggie - Lose that one and you are no better than the wildcard even if you beat the Ravens and Pats.
Have a nice day , I'm done here.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
McClain’s Mailbag: Attention Bill O’Brien haters
John McClain , Houston Chronicle Nov. 8, 2019
I shouldn’t be surprised, but I kind of am, that whenever the Texans lose and most of the time when they win, I get so many e-mails from readers complaining about Bill O’Brien and wanting him fired. Then, after a game in which he does one of his best coaching jobs, I don’t receive one e-mail praising him.
So, let me do it for you. O’Brien and his coaches as well as the Texans’ operations staff did a terrific job preparing for the trip to London and then helping the players execute the game plan offensively, defensively and on special teams to defeat Jacksonville 26-3 to regain first place in the AFC South.
The Texans are 6-3 and one-half game ahead of Indianapolis. The Colts will tie them with a victory over Miami. After they return from five days off, the Texans prepare for the most treacherous stretch of the season – at Baltimore, Indianapolis and New England. Crunch time will be Denver, at Tennessee, at Tampa Bay and Tennessee.
For all those O’Brien haters, when they lose it’s his fault, but when they win, it’s anybody but O’Brien who deserves the credit, right?
THE REST OF THE STORY
John McClain , Houston Chronicle Nov. 8, 2019
I shouldn’t be surprised, but I kind of am, that whenever the Texans lose and most of the time when they win, I get so many e-mails from readers complaining about Bill O’Brien and wanting him fired. Then, after a game in which he does one of his best coaching jobs, I don’t receive one e-mail praising him.
So, let me do it for you. O’Brien and his coaches as well as the Texans’ operations staff did a terrific job preparing for the trip to London and then helping the players execute the game plan offensively, defensively and on special teams to defeat Jacksonville 26-3 to regain first place in the AFC South.
The Texans are 6-3 and one-half game ahead of Indianapolis. The Colts will tie them with a victory over Miami. After they return from five days off, the Texans prepare for the most treacherous stretch of the season – at Baltimore, Indianapolis and New England. Crunch time will be Denver, at Tennessee, at Tampa Bay and Tennessee.
For all those O’Brien haters, when they lose it’s his fault, but when they win, it’s anybody but O’Brien who deserves the credit, right?
THE REST OF THE STORY
You've just described a good, flexible HC and yet you hate him? Why?
BOB was calling successful plays earlier in the season (There were guys open in the middle of the field consistently) and Watson missed them. Heck, Watson missed 3 deep throws alone in the Carolina game that would've won that game. That's why Watson was out there throwing after the game.
Then BOB changed the offense to play to Watson's strengths and you still hate him? SMH
What did BOB do to make you hate him and that goes for the rest of this MB too? This is yr 2 without the anvil that was RS and surely you can see the progress that's been made. Or are you one of those guys that buries your head in the sand because he doesn't want to admit that he could be wrong? (Not directed at you just a general question for the MB.)
Look I think BOB is an avg HC who was put in an almost impossible situation his 1st 3 yrs here and most HC's wouldn't have survived. I'm really interested in how they perform the rest of this yr and next yr once Caserio gets here. I pretty sure good times are ahead as long as BOB/Watson keep growing like they have this yr and Watson can remain healthy/ (Which I've got my doubts about.)
UnlimitedTexan
Waterboy
Agreed,
Just k know last year's team for finished where their talent level took them. This yrs team is much more talented, but they aren't ready for a spot in the SB.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
So he doesn’t have to win a playoff game? OK, gotcha.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Not what i'm saying at all, but since you brought it up, yes exactly & this should be the only benchmark he has to meet b/c as a HC, this is where you earn your money & power...in the playoffs.
Aside from that, it is my firm belief that when he is fired, this will be why; He simply has to get us over the hump in the next few years to the AFCCG/SB.
All these artificial benchmarks people keep setting only to move the goal post to some other benchmark are leading to 1 benchmark that matters: a deep run in the playoffs.
Texansballer74
The Marine
After six freaking years of course we the fans expect more. That is not a artificial benchmark. Wanting to see a much better effort from your team is not an artificial benchmark.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
It is if you try to place all the blame for the team not playing its best on any given Sunday on a guy that doesn't set 1 foot inside the white lines. You can't sit up here & complain about the HC & his offense not scoring more points when guys are out here dropping TD's.....or missing throws, blocks and tackles...or in the case of Colvin, doing **** off script. Those are things squarely on the player & no HC coaches any of that stuff.
Qb's don't complete 90% of the throws they're supposed to complete
WR's don't make 100% of the catches they should make
defensive players don't make 90% of the tackles they're supposed to make
So i don't understand....& never have, why fans expect a HC to make 90-100% correct play calls and game management decisions..especially when at least 30-40% of the time there's a case to be made to make a call or decision in a different manner.
So, short of the team getting completely annihilated, these next 3 games will tell you or anyone else nothing about BoB as a HC b/c if we win 2 out of the next 3 all ya'll will do is kick the can further down the road to another artifical benchmark until we do (if we do) fall short of the real benchmark...... which is a deep playoff run.......b/c the truth is most of ya'll do want the dude to fail.
While I tentatively agree with this at what point do you decide that a change is needed? Is it a magic number of years?
We gave D. Capers 4 seasons with no playoff appearances.
G. Kubiak got 7 & change with 2 playoff wins.
If we are sitting here at the end of 6 years with still only 1 post season win will that be enough or should we give him more time.
For me if we aren't at least competitive in a divisional playoff game (not a wildcard game) then I have had enough and want a change.
Right now he's a poor man's Marty Schottenheimer. . .without the conference championship appearances. Marty had some great regular season teams. Matter of fact, he's 200-126 in the regular season. Impressive!
But, in a results driven business, all that really matters is postseason wins. In 21 seasons, Marty is 5-13.
And that's what Billy's 1-3 record says to me. Prove otherwise and I'll believe. Respect is earned.
But, in a results driven business, all that really matters is postseason wins. In 21 seasons, Marty is 5-13.
And that's what Billy's 1-3 record says to me. Prove otherwise and I'll believe. Respect is earned.
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