Yep, and until Watson gets it limiting his choices is the way I would go.
We will never know about Watson/WCO as long as BOB is here. I just think that the WCO is overly romanticized around these parts.
Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!
Watson’s a top 5 qb. Do you agree?
- Thread starter DanielTx
- Start date
Yep, and until Watson gets it limiting his choices is the way I would go.
We will never know about Watson/WCO as long as BOB is here. I just think that the WCO is overly romanticized around these parts.
Kailee Wong on Texans extra point said Martin is now making line calls now & that helped Watson get rid of the ball half a second quicker.
I don't know how Kailee Wong would know, but it did look like Martin was doing a lot more communicating last week.
If Watson is incapable of making the correct OL calls and recognizing the blitz then it's better for Martin to do it. Maybe this is the reason BOB extended Martin.
Why would Watson be incapable of making ol calls?
Well if Martin made the OL calls last game and you cant tell the difference then I dont know what to tell you.
When Peyton Manning was with the Colts, he didn't make the OL calls. I guess he was also incapable of making OL calls.
"Now, ¡magine you play for the Colts. Howard Mudd is one of the best ¡n the business at figuring out how a defense is trying to attack the offensive line. If he sees something, he lets Peyton know. Then the center, Jeff Saturday, has to change all the blocking assignments, and make sure everyone on the line knows who to pick up when blocking. On top of that, how many times have we seen Peyton call an audible with 5 seconds on the clock? That audible might not just be a play change or a hot route to a receiver—it could be a change in the blocking scheme."
Guess who has to make sure everyone on the line got it right? That’s right, the center. This ¡s why it was so critical that the Colts got the deal done with Kelvin Hayden—so that they could re-sign Jeff Saturday. There is a reason Jeff has been a three-time Pro Bowl starter. Contrary to what many think the Colts run a very complex offense with lots of pre-snap reads, and changes. Jeff is one of the best in the business at both handling this pressure, and making sure that everyone on the line knows what they’re doing, so Peyton doesn’t have to.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...standing-jeff-saturday-and-the-offensive-line
"Now, ¡magine you play for the Colts. Howard Mudd is one of the best ¡n the business at figuring out how a defense is trying to attack the offensive line. If he sees something, he lets Peyton know. Then the center, Jeff Saturday, has to change all the blocking assignments, and make sure everyone on the line knows who to pick up when blocking. On top of that, how many times have we seen Peyton call an audible with 5 seconds on the clock? That audible might not just be a play change or a hot route to a receiver—it could be a change in the blocking scheme."
Guess who has to make sure everyone on the line got it right? That’s right, the center. This ¡s why it was so critical that the Colts got the deal done with Kelvin Hayden—so that they could re-sign Jeff Saturday. There is a reason Jeff has been a three-time Pro Bowl starter. Contrary to what many think the Colts run a very complex offense with lots of pre-snap reads, and changes. Jeff is one of the best in the business at both handling this pressure, and making sure that everyone on the line knows what they’re doing, so Peyton doesn’t have to.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...standing-jeff-saturday-and-the-offensive-line
Processing and communicating information. A QB has a ton of information to process in a very limited amount of time. My only knock on Watson, coming out of college, was his 30 INTs in 2 seasons. He was fooled by secondary's post snap at Clemson.
Personally, I think Watson could run the EP system just fine if someone other than OB was coaching him. OB doesn't seem to be good at teaching or coaching.
The scheme and playcalling changed Imo
Yes that's what I'm getting at. If he's really making bad calls then it's on coaching. His ints have been surprisingly low after his rookie year
I don't even think that's the issue , after re-watching the last couple games , he's "making the reads" and doing so in good time.
Its the result of those reads that is at issue. Go back to Carolina and they kept running plays / route combinations right into the teeth of the defense. What OB was calling was exactly what they were taking away and he refused to take what was there to be taken.
Go back to Jax and they were doing the same kinda crap and getting beat on blitzes , where were the blitz beaters ? Nope ….
Teams that don't specifically scheme to take away the deep stuff (NO , SD and Atlanta) they are able to connect on some.
The more I see of this offense , the more blame I put on the guy dialing up the plays and less on Watson.
It will be interesting to see how they adjust when they play teams division teams - particularly Jax a second time.
Last edited:
How were these terrible coaches able to teach Martin how to make the OL calls but were not able to teach Watson the same thing?
The offense sucked until OBrien made philosophical changes
You didn't answer my queston.
But you're correct you just dont know why. The biggest philosophical change was taking things off of Watson's plate and giving those responsibilities to Martin.
I've been calling for BOB to not give Watson so much to think about and it appears that he made the change.
After rewatching Atlanta and Carolina … Nope. The playcalling was pretty much the same.
Thing is , one team was specifically scheming to take away exactly what OB was dialing up - the other was a more generic scheme , not trying to take away anything specific but attempting to limit everything which was a total failure.
Atlanta played much the same defense as the Chargers - Just much less effective due to talent.
When we drafted Martin many were talking up his intelligence & how that will help him make the calls. Others were saying how it doesn't make sense as our Center doesn't make the calls.
The Panthers ran a lot of Cover 4. To beat Cover 4, a competent OC would call rub routes, out routes, tight formations and underneath mesh routes. In the Panthers game, the WRs kept running into the heart of the Cover 4. Against the Falcons, I believe Watson was 10-12 on out routes. So, the play calling was different from the Panthers game.
http://breakdownsports.blogspot.com/2015/05/football-fundamentals-cover-4-defense-playbook.html
Do you have a link showing Martin was making the OL protection calls? You're the only person I've heard mention that.
Ok... we don't know Martin was making the calls. Kailee Wong said he was, but that doesn't mean much.
Plus it's not a matter of Martin being able to & Watson not. Watson also has to communicate to the receivers & RBs, the center does not. That's a lot of information for one person to recognize, process, & communicate in a short amount of time.
Also I remember when Fitz started he had trouble calling protection. Then Mallett started a few games & Fitz was able to see it done in real time. When Fitz was made starter again, he was much better calling protection. Watson didn't have that benefit, he saw Savage do it in real time for a series.
No the change was the playcalling
Why would Martin be better than Watson making calls? This defense of OBriens bad ep system is going in some bizarre directions
I have to disagree, the routes and hot reads were changed, more misdirection, more stuff over the middle where the blitzes were coming from
I'm not defending BOB or the EP system.
Why do you think Martin is better at the OL calls than Watson?
I don't think he is
You didn't notice a difference in picking up the blitz last week and the 1st half this week?
I noticed they changed the schemes and routes
Because one poster says so.
What do y'all think is happening when Watson is doing all that shouting, pointing, & hand signals before the ball is snapped?
I'm not defending O'Brien. I hate O'Brien. But we have no idea what the play call is as Bill O'Brien calls it. We only see it after Watson changes it. I'm just saying we need to take that into consideration when we talk about BO'bs offense.
According to @steelbtexan, there are empty gestures while Martin makes the OL calls to get the potent EP offense going.
Scooter
Funky
I've jumped a few pages to reply to this, but I think it's pretty much the core question. My answer is "absolutely". O'Brien's offense is obviously incapable of doing so, being the weakest post-season offense in history kinda proves that (as if it needed more). I'm not sure that our current scheme, despite being a dramatic improvement will fare much better because it has zero wrinkles to this point, because so much still leans on O'Brien's tendencies. Still too much going deep with only the first (sometimes second) being a short and/or hot. That motion right with the leak TE option should also have a backend screen (like Reid). The TE sit that we've finally involved, needs evolve to WR sit with the option of floating it just over to the tightend behind him (like Gronk's impossible crossing routes). The Patriots' offense and Brady's quick delivery (notice someone else throwing quick lately?) is an offense that makes defenses think. Defenses dont like to think, they dont like being given multiple choice, they don't like to have to guess "if I go here, where is my safety going to react?". We have a built in choice in Watson's legs, and a very SMART quarterback who can read those options quickly if given the chance.
Watson has excelled regardless of the offense he's been asked to run ... mostly that of two options "wait for Hopkins to run his 20yd out and get hit - or don't wait and run for your life, and get hit". Currently he's been given an offensive plan that allows others to do the heavy lifting, such as our tightends on 3yd "defender's choice" flares and runningbacks moving the sticks and the best receiver in football catching first downs to keep us on the field - instead of desperately save the day. Well aint that just ... duh. The less involved O'Brien becomes with this team, the stronger we keep becoming, and though I think Watson is more than capable on winning, the playoffs are as much about strategy as they are execution ...
Last edited:
amazing80
Hall of Fame
I think Wilson is right now. Then Watson. Then mahomes.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Top 5
Brady till he finally gets bored
Wilson
Watson
Mahomes
Ben if he was playing
Brees if playing
Rodgers
Rivers
Lol top 10 easy, man top 5 is tough
Brady till he finally gets bored
Wilson
Watson
Mahomes
Ben if he was playing
Brees if playing
Rodgers
Rivers
Lol top 10 easy, man top 5 is tough
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I’d put Rodgers over Brees and Ben. Rodgers has almost single handily kept GB competitive. Ben and Brees are good but they’ve also had teams around them. Rodgers really hadn’t since their one SB win.
DanielTx
Veteran
ppl won’t deny it after he takes down the pats New Years. I don’t see him losing 3x to New England.
Yep. Folks are going to go through some painful logic pretzels to give props to the offense the past two weeks while refraining from giving O'Brien any credit.
Those audibles that Watson makes at the LOS? Those came from O'Brien, too.
You cannot separate O'Brien from the successes and failures. This is his team, his offense, and now his QB. It's a symbiotic relationship, and one that needs time to grow and mature with time and experience.
Personally, I want to believe that the past two games are a sign of things to come. Maybe wishful thinking, but obviously time will tell.
Watson clearly has the potential and talent to be elite. Consistency and winning will keep him there.
I do give him credit for installing the philosophical change and seemingly abandoning his version of the EP system.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Delete
Last edited:
DanielTx
Veteran
How many come-from-behind wins is this for Watson?
someone remind me
Too many. He’s the smartest qb in football right now. Scary thing is he’s only going to get better.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Texansballer74
The Marine
Yeah, Prescott is the best
No he's not but he did start off hot in the first three games.
Russell Wilson, among others, would disagree. Watson is damned good, though.
How many come-from-behind wins is this for Watson?
someone remind me
1 4th-quarter-comeback and 1 game-wining-drive, according to pro-football-reference.
Unsurprisingly R Wilson leads each category with 3 apiece (though tied with J Allen for GWD's).
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
This man hasn't even won a playoff game yet, and now he's the smartest QB in football? Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Aaron Rogers must feel like mental midgets then since a 3rd year QB is already a smarter field general than they are.
Even Watson would admit he's still working on his pre and post snap recognition. You got to slow down grasshopper. In due time.
Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Aaron Rogers must feel like mental midgets then since a 3rd year QB is already a smarter field general than they are.
Crazy talk they had to change up the offense to make Watson more comfortable. Talented but still got a lot to learn is how I would describe Watson.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
It takes years and years to be able to go through these progressions and the reeds that these HOF's have to make and the pre snap evaluations that they do. It simply can't be gained over night It takes years of reps and game situations that they see.
DanielTx
Veteran
I think I speak for everyone when I say Russ isn’t as bright as Deshaun. I don’t think Deshaun would throw on the 1 yard line in the superbowl just to be the mvp. Russ is crazy talented and smart but after that play. I questioned his I.q.