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State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
Yes.
He's been better than all the draft picks & FAs we've thrown out there since Duane Brown. Why start that carousel all over again?
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
Actually, if organisational alignment means having the entire team working towards the HC's vision then getting a GM who doesn't have the ego to instigate a power struggle isnt a bad idea.
For me, its the fact that this move ties us to Obrien the OC...If its possible to scheme DW to look this good tonight, then who's to blame when the scheme all too often limits him to how bad he looked the last 2 weeks?
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
on the first point, I'd like to see the all-22 but I'll take your word for it.
on the 2nd pt., I don't recall saying Watson was "directed" to go practice. I took what you passed on to us (that Watson was working with his QB coach right after the game) as Watson himself realizing he cost the team the game so he had something he needed to work on.
Seemed to produce results in the following game.
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I don't think the extra throwing after the game was what made the difference …. It was the film study and recognizing vulnerabilities in the defense along with the changes to the playcalling.
On Fuller's last score? (maybe the 2nd one?) - he had another receiver who had beaten his man deep on the opposite side of the field , right up the numbers - Much more separation than Fuller had - a much easier throw as that pass had to be right where Watson threw it for Fuller to score. Check the All-22.
I was screaming how he missed that one …. until Fuller hit the endzone.
I only recall one play where he missed an open guy , weren't many balls that hit the dirt , hell the play I refer to above was a TD .… I'm nitpicking.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
https://twitter.com/SethWalder/status/1179465149167611905?s=20
https://twitter.com/Ayoo_Noah/status/1181679070939111429?s=20
Funny, its almost as if the tackle that was drafted to play guard is actually better as a tackle! Who would have thunk it!!
https://twitter.com/Ayoo_Noah/status/1181679070939111429?s=20
Funny, its almost as if the tackle that was drafted to play guard is actually better as a tackle! Who would have thunk it!!
https://twitter.com/SethWalder/status/1179465149167611905?s=20
https://twitter.com/Ayoo_Noah/status/1181679070939111429?s=20
Funny, its almost as if the tackle that was drafted to play guard is actually better as a tackle! Who would have thunk it!!
There sure are a bunch of RT's on that list.
According to I think it was Rappaport that said the plan was to start Howard at LG and eventually move him out to RT. It happened faster than they thought it would do to Henderson's suckage.
I'm with you on that they should've started with Howard at RT in TC.
zshawn10
All Pro
Laremy Tunsil allowed two sacks and three hurries in Week 1, but since then he hasn’t allowed a single sack or hit, and allowed just three hurries on 164 pass-blocking snaps. He has really stood out the past two weeks especially, allowing zero pressure on 86 pass-blocking snaps in that span.
Trade successful
Tytus Howard has had a decent start to his NFL career, allowing a single sack in 163 pass-blocking snaps, but a little worrisome 12 hurried and 13 pressures on the QB. Week over week he’s gotten better climbing the ladder in his grades!
Max Scharping has been up and down so far. Although he hasn’t allowed a sack yet, he has allowed 7 hurries and 7 pressures on 129 pass-blocking snaps. His run blocking hasn’t been all that great, but let’s be honest, he’s learning and doing a decent job so far. Will be fun to watch him grow in the NFL.
Nick Martin has allowed one sack all year, 1 QB Hit, 1 hurry and 3 pressures on 206 pass-blocking snaps. He’s done a decent job in the run posting a 61.4 grade on PFF, currently a career high. He has been penalized only 2 times as well, although sometimes I think he flubs on the snap count and others pay the price!
Zack Fulton has not allowed a single sack, but has allowed 1 QB hit, 8 hurries and 9 pressures on 158 pass-blocking snaps. Only been penalized in one game, 2 times.
Trade successful
Tytus Howard has had a decent start to his NFL career, allowing a single sack in 163 pass-blocking snaps, but a little worrisome 12 hurried and 13 pressures on the QB. Week over week he’s gotten better climbing the ladder in his grades!
Max Scharping has been up and down so far. Although he hasn’t allowed a sack yet, he has allowed 7 hurries and 7 pressures on 129 pass-blocking snaps. His run blocking hasn’t been all that great, but let’s be honest, he’s learning and doing a decent job so far. Will be fun to watch him grow in the NFL.
Nick Martin has allowed one sack all year, 1 QB Hit, 1 hurry and 3 pressures on 206 pass-blocking snaps. He’s done a decent job in the run posting a 61.4 grade on PFF, currently a career high. He has been penalized only 2 times as well, although sometimes I think he flubs on the snap count and others pay the price!
Zack Fulton has not allowed a single sack, but has allowed 1 QB hit, 8 hurries and 9 pressures on 158 pass-blocking snaps. Only been penalized in one game, 2 times.
This must be your observations
Good analysis. I wasn’t aware the the starting OL unit had only given up 4 or 5 sacks.
I think the correct answer is "All of the above"...
better play selection, more video/film study, Watson working on certain throws he thought needed sharpening.
...there's no one thing
I like watching him. He's not a big brute like Duane Brown, but solid, solid technique. Hands, shoulders, hips, feet near perfect every snap. You can tell he's had some really good coaching. I don't know if that was at Miami or from college, but I'd be looking into it if I were O'Brien.
Very few OL can move as effortlessly as Tunsil can. A young DB could move like Tunsil and DB had a mean streak.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Tunsil may not have that same mean streak but you listen to Tunsil after game interviews and he seems to take every time Watson is sacked as a personal insult that must be answered. He's done this long enough and spent enough time in the purgatory that was Miami to know that as your QB goes so does your team so playing in front of a QB that can actually take you to the big game seems to mean a lot to him. What I'm liking about the current line, except maybe Martin, is that they seem to be a very mobile line that can follow Watson, at least some what, when he starts dancing around the back field.
Dont get me wrong, I loved the Tunsil trade and he's only going to get better as he becomes more comfortable. He's a bad a**.
Your right in that this is the most athletic OL the Texans org has ever had. Even more athletic than the Gibbs ZBS OL's.
Plus they are really young and should really improve as they get more experience and develop into a cohesive unit. I'm really amazed that they are doing as well as they are right now because they're getting by on their pure talent level.
This is such a change from the previous 5 yrs. Now that BOB's fully in charge he wants to protect Watson at all costs and fixed the OL in 1 offseason. I know many on this MB cant stand BOB but I'm very happy he made this decision and yes, it cost to get Tunsil but a well protected Watson equals a bright future for this franchise.
Watson needs to stop running around so much and learn to step up in the pocket and using good footwork to deliver accurate throws. I'm sure sure Smith has been working with Watson on his foot work. So far this season Watson's footwork has been inconsistent. Smith is one of the best teachers of fundamentals/footwork in the NFL.
Well officially they had more than 5 sacks in the first game, the NOLA game alone.
So much of this seems to be open to interpretation it's challenging to know what the stats really are ?
Watson needs to stop running around so much and learn to step up in the pocket and using good footwork to deliver accurate throws. I'm sure sure Smith has been working with Watson on his foot work. So far this season Watson's footwork has been inconsistent. Smith is one of the best teachers of fundamentals/footwork in the NFL.
How many of those sacks are because Watson held the ball too long or ran into sacks?
Do you know the definition of the word continuity?
It doesn't mean completely changing the scheme in game 5
So the answer is no?
Texansballer74
The Marine
You need to ask Bill O'Brien does he know the meaning of continuity. He's the one who keeps changing up the line every year. Lol
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Exactly, unless you're a Texans coach, then you truly can't place blame. An outside observer doesn't know the responsibility of the OL. Also, in a lot of cases, partial blame should be spread out to multiple position groups.
To me, when people say "only 4 sacks this season are due to the OL"... I think they watch the all-22, freeze the video right before Watson gets sacked, and if they find a receiver open, then they put 100% of blame on Watson for that sack. To me, that's unfair analysis.
When I watch the tape, and even though Watson may be holding the ball 2+ seconds, I still see some linemen not holding their blocks or not picking up the stunt. In these cases, I would put partial blame on the OL.
badboy
Hall of Fame
In my opinion you would be wrong. Has been stated repeatedly the average is less than three seconds that a quarterback needs to release the ball. If Watson for whatever reason does not, any sack is on him, again in my opinion. He has option to pass or throw the ball out of bounds to avoid a sack. If receivers are not getting open then they would share or be responsible.
Tweet from @riversmccown: One of the biggest areas of improvement for Tytus Howard right now is his second-level blocking. Needs to get better at it. Here he leads behind the tight ends after setting Fulton. Runs right into Fells, literally blocks Fells down. Play went for seven, more on the bone there. https://t.co/YzXKuwmeKz
Tweet from @riversmccown: Lotta upside in the ground game for the Texans now. Quality double team by Scharping/Martin, and Scharping just pushes 96 out of the play. Hyde takes a breather on his own OL's butt and still gets six yards.
Watson + Coutee action = lots of elements for a defense to deal with. https://t.co/NqWvA4PD1X
Tweet from @riversmccown: Lotta upside in the ground game for the Texans now. Quality double team by Scharping/Martin, and Scharping just pushes 96 out of the play. Hyde takes a breather on his own OL's butt and still gets six yards.
Watson + Coutee action = lots of elements for a defense to deal with. https://t.co/NqWvA4PD1X
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I agree there is a time threshold where a QB can't rely on the protection to hold up. I think that time varies, depending on how many pass rushers as well as down & distance. That goes to my point, we don't know what the coaches are telling Watson to do in certain situations. I don't think it's fair to have a hard rule like... if it's past three seconds, any sack is on the QB.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Watson needs to be aware of his linemen but his focus should not be on them at all. He should be reading the defense and following through on the play. His Spidey senses will continue to develop and will continue to help him extend plays when necessary. It's the 'when necessary' and how #4 defines it that concerns me. His QBR vs Falcons had to have been a huge confidence Builder for him. No football play should take over 3 seconds to develop. That is why the quarterback ability to read defenses becomes an issue. If the receiver cannot win the release the QB may have to extend but that is not on the o-line . Of course that is not saying the line doesn't continue to block but in my opinion the responsibility shifts to the QB. It is his decision only what to do with the ball at that point. I am enjoying the conversation with you.
I seriously doubt PFF or anyone is putting blame on Watson for sacks simply because it was after a set time (3 seconds). Most likely it's the overload blitzes where there are free rushers. Where our linemen blocked someone, did nothing wrong but Watson still got sacked.
I haven't gone back & watched any of the games, but to only credit 4 against the OL is questionable. I know both New Orleans & Carolina a lot of the sacks were overloaded blitzes. But... I don't know.
I do blame a lot on Watson, maybe more than I should, but to think he is completely blameless, eh. I think that type of thinking (by the coaches) ruined David Carr more than anything.
I haven't gone back & watched any of the games, but to only credit 4 against the OL is questionable. I know both New Orleans & Carolina a lot of the sacks were overloaded blitzes. But... I don't know.
I do blame a lot on Watson, maybe more than I should, but to think he is completely blameless, eh. I think that type of thinking (by the coaches) ruined David Carr more than anything.
Well officially they had more than 5 sacks in the first game, the NOLA game alone.
So much of this seems to be open to interpretation it's challenging to know what the stats really are ?
Some folks blame certain sacks on Watson because of his tendency to sometimes hold the ball too long, but to be consistent why not increase the sack total for those situations where Watson because of his mobility and elusiveness avoids sacks which would have occurred otherwise due to breakdowns in pass-pro ?
When you have a crap ol you should change up the ol. Now that they have talent everybody is settling into their positions and Watson's not getting sacked unless he's holding on to the ball too long.
BTW, Devlin is the ol coaxh and he makes me decisions where guys play. Just be happy that the ol finally has talent. I think you're either being fectioua or are actually upset that the ol is fixed and the offense looked good last week. Maybe it's because if Watson gets sacked you can't blame it on the ol anymore?
Because there really haven't been breakdowns in pass pro lately.
LMAO
Why?
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I suspect you speak of the Falcons no blitz no rush scheme.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
terrible rationale as usual.
True, but also O'Brien's philosophical change I think was a factor
Or the Falcons are a terrible defense.
Texansballer74
The Marine
You can also say we didn't give them any time to blitz. The scheme allowed Watson to get the ball out a lot quicker than the first 4 weeks.
It's almost like people just can't give the Texans credit for a well executed game.
Great job Bill O'Brien and team.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Lol, There was no "philosophical" change. What u saw Sunday was a qb getting the ball out on time, hitting his guys early & accurately & letting his skill guys do what they do in space. This was significantly aided by the Falcon's simple defensive scheme. The other thing you saw was DW4 using his cadence to keep the defense honest....& they used ALOT of tempo.
The play calls weren't all that different, the run/pass ratio was about the same and the "creativity" wasn't all that drastically different from how its been.