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Acquisitions of value

maverick512000 said:
No I don’t have a clue what you know since you stated that it might have been close but Brown’s own statements contradict that.
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No the f it doesn't. Please don't take your frustration out on me on this post. I'm always posting links of info concerning the Texans. And to be honest here, I was talking to Steel who acts as if it's a guarantee we will extend Tunsil. He was the one who wanted Brown do badly. Just like he wanted Solders. But you jumped in not fully understanding the exchange.
 
Texansballer74 said:
No the f it doesn't. Please don't take your frustration out on me on this post. I'm always posting links of info concerning the Texans. And to be honest here, I was talking to Steel who acts as if it's a guarantee we will extend Tunsil. He was the one who wanted Brown do badly. Just like he wanted Solders. But you jumped in not fully understanding the exchange.
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Taking my frustration out? :lol:

What the hell do I have to be frustrated about? You made the statement it could have been close and I posted links and info that basically showed it wasn’t.

Not sure what you posting info about the Texans has to do with anything since Brown isn’t a Texan. Also you don’t get to play the “I was talking to X” on a public forum, you want a private conversation then PM him. I did understand the exchange, it wasn’t deep or complex so it wasn’t hard to understand. You just didn’t like that I posted evidence that your point about Brown and the Texan’s offer was wrong. Also I’ve been arguing with Steel about Brown since pretty much the start of the off season.
 
maverick512000 said:
Taking my frustration out? :lol:

What the hell do I have to be frustrated about? You made the statement it could have been close and I posted links and info that basically showed it wasn’t.

Not sure what you posting info about the Texans has to do with anything since Brown isn’t a Texan. Also you don’t get to play the “I was talking to X” on a public forum, you want a private conversation then PM him. I did understand the exchange, it wasn’t deep or complex so it wasn’t hard to understand. You just didn’t like that I posted evidence that your point about Brown and the Texan’s offer was wrong. Also I’ve been arguing with Steel about Brown since pretty much the start of the off season.
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Steel said he heard and I heard Brown say the Texans made a good offer. In this article it does not specify the amount.

Blessed."


That's how Trent Brown felt when reporters in Alameda asked him how he was doing.

Brown has good reason to feel blessed. His record-setting four-year, $66 million contract with the Oakland Raiders became official Wednesday.

The deal came together nine minutes after the early free agency negotiating period opened Monday. Brown explained how it all went down.

"[Agent] Drew [Rosenhaus] just called me and was like, ‘Bro, we got an irrefusable offer, and it’s going to make you the highest-paid offensive lineman in NFL history. You have a great opportunity to go and play with a great coach, a great coaching staff, great organization with a lot of history. Then, in a year, you’ll be a part of the first team to ever play in Vegas.’ I couldn’t turn that offer down,” Brown told reporters.

In 2015, Brown was the No. 244 overall pick in the NFL draft. Now, he just signed a contract that reportedly will pay him $36.75 million in guaranteed money.

"I shed a few tears," Brown said. "Not in front of my family and Drew, but definitely that night behind closed doors, I shed a few tears. Just being a seventh-rounder and being able to say or anybody being able to say that I was the highest-paid offensive lineman in NFL history is a true testament to just staying the course."

Brown started at left tackle in Super Bowl LIII and helped the Patriots defeat the Rams. But he has experience at right tackle. Does he have a preference?

"Whatever is going to help the team," Brown said.


So what are you talk about. We're level headed thinkers. With that being said, we can best believe the Texans made a really large offer.

Stop trying to nitpick over my comment.
 
But, but, but, but we got a stud LT and an awesome recciever.. pfft.. stud LT gave up a sack and had two false starts. Receiver limped off the field.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Steel said he heard and I heard Brown say the Texans made a good offer. In this article it does not specify the amount.

Blessed."


That's how Trent Brown felt when reporters in Alameda asked him how he was doing.

Brown has good reason to feel blessed. His record-setting four-year, $66 million contract with the Oakland Raiders became official Wednesday.

The deal came together nine minutes after the early free agency negotiating period opened Monday. Brown explained how it all went down.

"[Agent] Drew [Rosenhaus] just called me and was like, ‘Bro, we got an irrefusable offer, and it’s going to make you the highest-paid offensive lineman in NFL history. You have a great opportunity to go and play with a great coach, a great coaching staff, great organization with a lot of history. Then, in a year, you’ll be a part of the first team to ever play in Vegas.’ I couldn’t turn that offer down,” Brown told reporters.

In 2015, Brown was the No. 244 overall pick in the NFL draft. Now, he just signed a contract that reportedly will pay him $36.75 million in guaranteed money.

"I shed a few tears," Brown said. "Not in front of my family and Drew, but definitely that night behind closed doors, I shed a few tears. Just being a seventh-rounder and being able to say or anybody being able to say that I was the highest-paid offensive lineman in NFL history is a true testament to just staying the course."

Brown started at left tackle in Super Bowl LIII and helped the Patriots defeat the Rams. But he has experience at right tackle. Does he have a preference?

"Whatever is going to help the team," Brown said.


So what are you talk about. We're level headed thinkers. With that being said, we can best believe the Texans made a really large offer.

Stop trying to nitpick over my comment.
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It’s not nitpicking to point out when what you are saying doesn’t match what we know. You said the offer could have been extremely close but Brown said it was a “no brainer”

https://www.si.com/nfl/texans/news/...ding-into-free-agency-RWkpy6mp5UmGoYadhAC81Q/

If the offers are close at all then things like cost of living, tax laws and a bunch of other stuff become factors. So for it to be a no brainer there are only three possibilities. A) The offers weren’t close, B) Brown in no way wanted to play for the Texans or C) Brown isn’t smart enough to think about these things and just went with whatever the higher number was.

There is no reason for B since as far as I know Brown has no history with the Texans or anyone on it. I don’t believe it’s C since every time I’ve heard him speak he struck me as fairly intelligent so then there is only A.

Dude you made a statement not supported by what a Brown himself has said and got called on it. Stop trying to die on this hill, Raiders offer blew everyone’s out of the water which good for them, they way over paid for a middle of the pack guy just like we did for Martin.
 
Anyone still want to give me the description explanation of why we needed to mortgage the future for Tunsil??

That move was never going to make them SB bound, so it never made a lick of sense giving up all of that.
 
Texecutioner said:
Anyone still want to give me the description explanation of why we needed to mortgage the future for Tunsil??

It was made to protect Watson.

Hopefully Watson learns to read defenses and get rid of the ball, in addition to losing his bad case of the happy feet.

That move was never going to make them SB bound, so it never made a lick of sense giving up all of that.
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It was made to protect Watson properly.

How long is it going to take for Watson to start processing what he sees much more quickly? Not saying he wont learn, but so far he hasn't.

Maybe they need to go back to his college offense since that's all he seems to be able to retain and if he gets hurt so be it.
 
Texecutioner said:
Anyone still want to give me the description explanation of why we needed to mortgage the future for Tunsil??

That move was never going to make them SB bound, so it never made a lick of sense giving up all of that.
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Well, could go back to the keep the draft pick, win enough games to earn another mid to late first-round selection and when a player at a position of need falls beyond what is expected be too scared trade up to get that guy
 
steelbtexan said:
It was made to protect Watson properly.

How long is it going to take for Watson to start processing what he sees much more quickly? Not saying he wont learn, but so far he hasn't.

Maybe they need to go back to his college offense since that's all he seems to be able to retain and if he gets hurt so be it.
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What evidence do you have that it's slow processing vs slow developing offense that gets no one open?
 
steelbtexan said:
It was made to protect Watson properly.

How long is it going to take for Watson to start processing what he sees much more quickly? Not saying he wont learn, but so far he hasn't.

Maybe they need to go back to his college offense since that's all he seems to be able to retain and if he gets hurt so be it.
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We know why it was made. The point is that it wasn't a guarantee that it was going to transform this Oline any way. Not this season, so we could have continued to build up the Oline with He has O'brien coaching him. His learning curve is likely to be his own with very little effectiveness and tutelage through the staff unfortunately. It isn't just the players on this offensive line. Its the coaching on that specific part of the game is just bad. Carolina has a solid defense and their secondary likely had the receivers guarded really well making it harder for Watson to know where to put the ball.
 
Texecutioner said:
We know why it was made. The point is that it wasn't a guarantee that it was going to transform this Oline any way. Not this season, so we could have continued to build up the Oline with He has O'brien coaching him. His learning curve is likely to be his own with very little effectiveness and tutelage through the staff unfortunately. It isn't just the players on this offensive line. Its the coaching on that specific part of the game is just bad. Carolina has a solid defense and their secondary likely had the receivers guarded really well making it harder for Watson to know where to put the ball.
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No it wasn’t a guarantee but then a draft pick wouldn’t have been a guarantee either and even if the pick did pan out they wouldn’t be ready for at least a year. Odds are we will be drafting mid 20s and day 1 starter LTs typically have been going top 10 if not top 5 so how much would it have cost us to jump up from mid 20s to top 10 or 5? I promise you it would have been at least what we paid for Tunsil if we found a trade partner at all.

You said yourself, correctly, that our Oline coaching is bad so again how would a drafted rookie help us? At least Tunsil has been in the league long enough that he doesn’t need a Devlin to actually coach him.
 
Texecutioner said:
Anyone still want to give me the description explanation of why we needed to mortgage the future for Tunsil??

That move was never going to make them SB bound, so it never made a lick of sense giving up all of that.
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Remember when Osweiler had us in a Divisional playoff game against the Patriots? Three balls thrown, should have been TDs, on three separate drives. That OL wasn't much better than the one we have now. As bad a HC/OC/GM as O'Brien is, I think he can get us back there & I believe Watson makes those plays.

I honestly can't tell you what's happening right now. I don't think this offense built on what they did last week, the week before, or the week before that. I hated watching the game today. But the season is still early. Just gotta keep chopping wood.
 
TheKDog said:
Two first rounders and a second rounder will be on cheap rookie deals for 5 years...on the dolphins.

They won't cost $20million per year, which is what Tunsil who isn't elite will cost
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Agreed. We should be doing what the Dolphins are doing.
 
maverick512000 said:
No it wasn’t a guarantee but then a draft pick wouldn’t have been a guarantee either and even if the pick did pan out they wouldn’t be ready for at least a year. Odds are we will be drafting mid 20s and day 1 starter LTs typically have been going top 10 if not top 5 so how much would it have cost us to jump up from mid 20s to top 10 or 5? I promise you it would have been at least what we paid for Tunsil if we found a trade partner at all.
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You have no clue where they'd be drafting. You're talking like Watson will get hurt and that he'd have no protection, so that doesn't even make sense. That is more likely a top 10 pick if the protection is that bad. Offensive Line doesn't take forever if you're not taking project players. They'd have an entire off season to evaluate FA's as well and disgruntled players where they could have possibly made trades.

Suggesting that every pick is a wasted pick is not a rationale thought towards the draft. Might as well skip the whole damn thing if you're going to value early round picks as automatic waste, because the odds on the later rounds are a total roll of the dice for the most part.

maverick512000 said:
You said yourself, correctly, that our Oline coaching is bad so again how would a drafted rookie help us? At least Tunsil has been in the league long enough that he doesn’t need a Devlin to actually coach him.
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It isn't anything wrong with Tunsil himself, but he's not worth anything close to that period. You can't site another example of where a team did that right before the first game of the season for a LT. It was a Hail Marry throw by a bad HC who just got GM duties at the last second who failed to fix the Oline so he panicked and made a move that is going to haunt this franchise for years.
 
TheKDog said:
What evidence do you have that it's slow processing vs slow developing offense that gets no one open?
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I watched the freaking game.

There were receivers open in the middle of the field. (Again)

Watson is very slow processing information. How do you coach around that? I'm not defending BOB either, he called a terrible game today. But Watson flat out sucked today. Holding the ball to long and very inaccurate.
 
steelbtexan said:
I watched the freaking game.

There were receivers open in the middle of the field. (Again)

Watson is very slow processing information. How do you coach around that? I'm not defending BOB either, he called a terrible game today. But Watson flat out sucked today. Holding the ball to long and very inaccurate.
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I watched the game too. The slow developing plays and routes suck
 
Texecutioner said:
You have no clue where they'd be drafting. You're talking like Watson will get hurt and that he'd have no protection, so that doesn't even make sense. That is more likely a top 10 pick if the protection is that bad. Offensive Line doesn't take forever if you're not taking project players. They'd have an entire off season to evaluate FA's as well and disgruntled players where they could have possibly made trades.

Suggesting that every pick is a wasted pick is not a rationale thought towards the draft. Might as well skip the whole damn thing if you're going to value early round picks as automatic waste, because the odds on the later rounds are a total roll of the dice for the most part.

It isn't anything wrong with Tunsil himself, but he's not worth anything close to that period. You can't site another example of where a team did that right before the first game of the season for a LT. It was a Hail Marry throw by a bad HC who just got GM duties at the last second who failed to fix the Oline so he panicked and made a move that is going to haunt this franchise for years.
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And you have no clue either yet you are talking like we’ll be able to draft non-project linemen. Hate to tell you this but in that last draft the only Oline guy that wasn’t a project was Williams and jury is still out on him as well. I never said every pick was a waste but you’re talking like the draft is a guaranteed win. You talk about odds on later picks being a roll of the dice we’ll odds on first round picks are a flip of the coin.

Also love how you talk about how they can coach guys up in a season and evaluate FA while in the same breath talk about how bad our coaching is on Oline. Those things are mutually exclusive, Devlin isn’t going to suddenly become a good coach this draft and BoB has already shown that he’s not replacing him.

Tunsil was drafted at 13 and only dropped that far because the bong video came out the day before the draft. Before that he was projected top 3 so exactly the kind of rookie we would be hoping to draft and his price tag is pretty close to what it would take to move up and get that rookie because if you think the Texans are drafting top ten when so many teams are damn near, and in Miami’s case are, tanking you’re funny.
 
thunderkyss said:
Agreed. We should be doing what the Dolphins are doing.
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On top of what Kdog just said
maverick512000 said:
And you have no clue either yet you are talking like we’ll be able to draft non-project linemen. Hate to tell you this but in that last draft the only Oline guy that wasn’t a project was Williams and jury is still out on him as well. I never said every pick was a waste but you’re talking like the draft is a guaranteed win. You talk about odds on later picks being a roll of the dice we’ll odds on first round picks are a flip of the coin.

Also love how you talk about how they can coach guys up in a season and evaluate FA while in the same breath talk about how bad our coaching is on Oline. Those things are mutually exclusive, Devlin isn’t going to suddenly become a good coach this draft and BoB has already shown that he’s not replacing him.

Tunsil was drafted at 13 and only dropped that far because the bong video came out the day before the draft. Before that he was projected top 3 so exactly the kind of rookie we would be hoping to draft and his price tag is pretty close to what it would take to move up and get that rookie because if you think the Texans are drafting top ten when so many teams are damn near, and in Miami’s case are, tanking you’re funny.
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You can live with all these defenses of OB all you want, but I'm one that is already laughing. This wasn't a SB team to begin with and none of those recent moves made it one. It isn't that they lost their ability to pick. They lost their ability to trade those valuable picks for much wider and stronger value. OB hasn't been known for making strong judgement in really any phase of the team at this point, so I'm not sure why you're reaching to defend that deal so hard. Their Oline is still bad.
 
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With right tackle Howard being replaced with Roderick Johnson we still do not have an offensive line that has played together more than one game. Is that much to hang my hat on? Probably not but it's all I've got. Not sure I understand how Watson staying after the game to throw a ball is making him any better for live game action. There's a lot wrong with this team. In my opinion in this game we took a step backwards.
 
steelbtexan said:
Dude you weren't watching the game then, Akins was open several times. Maybe I noticed this because I was at the game and they didn't show this on TV.
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I think watching from the stands doesn't give laymen a clear picture of who is open
 
TheKDog said:
I think watching from the stands doesn't give laymen a clear picture of who is open
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I think I can see much more of what's really going on vs what they show you on TV.

We aren't going to agree and my eyes didn't lie so lets move on.
 
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If the Panthers defense can do this to our wide receivers and tight ends we are in deep doo-doo for remainder of season. Seemed like Hopkins and Watson were not on the same page.
 
badboy said:
If the Panthers defense can do this to our wide receivers and tight ends we are in deep doo-doo for remainder of season. Seemed like Hopkins and Watson were not on the same page.
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If we're going to play like that every week, yeah. But that's not likely. We'll either play better, or worse. Hopefully we'll find a way to consistently play better. We'll see.
 
Texecutioner said:
We know why it was made. The point is that it wasn't a guarantee that it was going to transform this Oline any way. Not this season, so we could have continued to build up the Oline with He has O'brien coaching him. His learning curve is likely to be his own with very little effectiveness and tutelage through the staff unfortunately. It isn't just the players on this offensive line. Its the coaching on that specific part of the game is just bad. Carolina has a solid defense and their secondary likely had the receivers guarded really well making it harder for Watson to know where to put the ball.
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Will anything or any player or players ever change the results of this offense as long as OB and Devlin are in the drivers seat? NO....backed up by 6 years of evidence.

You guys need to quit acting like OB had some kind of profound NFL and college success or impact before joining the Texans. He's been in the drivers seat for 6 seasons and by every and all eye test(s)......the Texans look the same today as they have over the past 6 seasons regardless of the numerous personnel changes. How many personnel changes from the FO, coaches to the players have been made over the past 6 years to yield the same or failed results? Too many to count but what's the one constant.....Bill O'Brien. Conclude what you may from this but the facts are the facts.
 
TheKDog said:
Two first rounders and a second rounder will be on cheap rookie deals for 5 years...on the dolphins.

They won't cost $20million per year, which is what Tunsil who isn't elite will cost
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He wasn't regressing in Miami and if he had been traded to the Patriots......would he be regressing or be establishing a Pro Bowl resume? He's regressing in a failed system and so have many others. In a better system, Tunsil would look like the guy the Texans traded for but that's not the reality today.

I think a good GM could've moved Clowney for Tunsil at the owners meetings. Miami was hot on Clowney. Maybe the Dolphins get an additional pick out of the deal since Tunsil's contract still had some tread left.

The Texans could've saved those picks and thrown some of them at the Redskins for Scherff. Hail, who knew they were at impasse with the best RG in the league. Everyone knew of the situation they were in with one of the best LT's (Williams) in the NFL. I'd venture to say the Texans could've got the Redskins attention by offering their 2020 RD1 and RD2 picks......like Tunsil the Texans would need to get both signed to long term deals to secure the OL going forward.

These moves would've negated the need to extend Martin which would've prevented the mistake the team will have to live with this season. Does anyone see Martin as a salvageable case that will live up to the contract extension?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Will anything or any player or players ever change the results of this offense as long as OB and Devlin are in the drivers seat? NO....backed up by 6 years of evidence.

You guys need to quit acting like OB had some kind of profound NFL and college success or impact before joining the Texans. He's been in the drivers seat for 6 seasons and by every and all eye test(s)......the Texans look the same today as they have over the past 6 seasons regardless of the numerous personnel changes. How many personnel changes from the FO, coaches to the players have been made over the past 6 years to yield the same or failed results? Too many to count but what's the one constant.....Bill O'Brien. Conclude what you may from this but the facts are the facts.
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Devlin is going to be BOB's downfall.

I would've fired Devlin 2 yrs ago. Or atleast after last yr since they drafted 2 new rookie OL and traded for Tunsil. No need for Devlin to screw the new guys up with his teachings. The OL still struggles to pick up stunts. I'm still giving it 6 games for the OL to get straightened out but things dont look promising at this point. Watson certainly isn't helping things. I mean 1 sack Tunsil gave up he ran the DE 5 yds past Watson and Watson held the ball so long he still got sacked. It appears at this point Watson's career path is taking the same path as Carr's.
 
steelbtexan said:
Devlin is going to be BOB's downfall.

I would've fired Devlin 2 yrs ago. Or atleast after last yr since they drafted 2 new rookie OL and traded for Tunsil. No need for Devlin to screw the new guys up with his teachings. The OL still struggles to pick up stunts. I'm still giving it 6 games for the OL to get straightened out but things dont look promising at this point. Watson certainly isn't helping things. I mean 1 sack Tunsil gave up he ran the DE 5 yds past Watson and Watson held the ball so long he still got sacked. It appears at this point Watson's career path is taking the same path as Carr's.
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Lol that’s what you think his downfall is?
 
Tunsil does not look like he was worth 2 first round picks.

Watson needs to help his line more by using the check down??? He did that the most ever yesterday and what did that get him? 2 sacks on the very first goddamn drive? Thats his fault? Not eveyones favorite dollar store running backs Hyde and Johnson who cant pass block for sht. (know who can pass block great? Melving fking Gordon - but I digress) it falls on the feet of Jesus with Cleats - always. He has to play near perfect every game to overcome the deficiencies with the system. Everything has to work perfectly in OBriens offense - did anyone listen to the explanation of the trick play by OBrien (duuurrrr, it was a bad call WHOOPS my bad guys - I have to get better) and then Watson breaking down the coverages, saying that in film "the defense would react a certain way", but on the call it didnt happen, he was trying to kill the play after snap, but Nuk was already committed.

Watson gets killed for going the deep route too often, but nobody ever makes mention that this offense doesnt create much in terms of underneath. One week we get modern bunch sets and Watson looks great, then next week back to 4 second routes and nothing but a RB as a safety valve. Deshaun missed his TE on a couple of plays, but besides that there just wasnt anything there, what would have been better just to throw it up for grabs, hope NUK does his spider man thing? Throw some interceptions? Im sure that would have gone over well. He missed the 2 TD passes that were there yesterday, if he hits one we win another ugly one and move on, but he was off yesterday - Jesus with Cleats showing his human nature.

This offense relies on luck and individual greatness to succeed.
 
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