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Acquisitions of value

Seegara

Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
Recent additions to the team have proved to be of great value. Tunsil, Stills, Hyde... Makes you wonder who's pulling the strings. There has to be some new intelligence at work, for we can contrast these with disasters from the past: Ed Reed, Osweiler,.. Who is making the difference?
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
Definitely a swing in more aggressive moves. Is it Cal is it the lack of GM? Perhaps an x factor?

Personally I think it's hard to say yet.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Recent additions to the team have proved to be of great value. Tunsil, Stills, Hyde... Makes you wonder who's pulling the strings. There has to be some new intelligence at work, for we can contrast these with disasters from the past: Ed Reed, Osweiler,.. Who is making the difference?

Your two earlier examples - Os and Reed are kinda poor ones as they were both forced upon the coaching staff - One by the owner (Reed) in making a splash , the other by Rick Smith(Oz) - His take on the QB position is an interesting one , something we discussed in another thread - QB's and that 2nd contract cost limiting what you can put around them.
 

Texazan

Our HOF 34
Recent additions to the team have proved to be of great value. Tunsil, Stills, Hyde... Makes you wonder who's pulling the strings. There has to be some new intelligence at work, for we can contrast these with disasters from the past: Ed Reed, Osweiler,.. Who is making the difference?
My theory is BOB has harnessed the ability to time travel and he’s seen that the world is ending very soon so he went back, convinced Cal to see for himself and they’ve decided no need to hold onto any draft picks....or they were just due to hit on a few gambles finally
 
It only took way overpaying to make it happen.

I wonder why the rest of the nfl isn't too high on this strategy?
Depends on how you look at it. You can draft a rookie and hope they aren’t a bust, odds actually aren’t great on this, and that they will be an impact player quick enough to help, odds are even worse on this, or you can spend more in draft capital and get a proven player. You can’t do this with every player because the contracts would get way out of hand but for a few key positions those draft picks are not as valuable as the player.

To many on here over value draft picks because the draft is fun for them and when picks are traded away they don’t have as much fun on draft day so they claim we aren’t getting value. Tunsil was taken 13 over all and actually was expected much sooner but the video surfaced. Since then he has proven a stud at a position that is becoming second only to QB cost wise, so yeah two 1st for him was great value.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Depends on how you look at it. You can draft a rookie and hope they aren’t a bust, odds actually aren’t great on this, and that they will be an impact player quick enough to help, odds are even worse on this, or you can spend more in draft capital and get a proven player. You can’t do this with every player because the contracts would get way out of hand but for a few key positions those draft picks are not as valuable as the player.

To many on here over value draft picks because the draft is fun for them and when picks are traded away they don’t have as much fun on draft day so they claim we aren’t getting value. Tunsil was taken 13 over all and actually was expected much sooner but the video surfaced. Since then he has proven a stud at a position that is becoming second only to QB cost wise, so yeah two 1st for him was great value.
I place a high value on draft picks because drafting and grooming players has a much better track record for long term success on the field, and with the salary cap, than overpaying FAs. FWIW, I'm much better with trading draft picks for a good player than I am overpaying in FA. The NFL FA is about as much a roll of the dice as the NFL draft is.
IMHO, of course.
 

Dejaview

Rookie
What I like about these new players is that they largely plugged strategic holes with value. This team appears to be at point where we can now add new players to make us more elite rather than just adding players to “catch up”. It also gives the FO a baseline quality level that we don’t want to see eroded. Texans are starting to get a system in place and a player identity that should help in the draft process going forward...like yep, NE. Like it or not OB just might be a better GM than coach.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I wouldn’t call Tunsil “value” .. HOU was held over the coals on that deal and Tunsil will need to develop into an all pro to make it an even trade or even close to a “value” acquisition.

Everyone is in love with Hyde because he’s cheap soon as he asks for money the mob will turn. Are we the dollar general fans of the NFL? Lol
 
Here's the thing about Tunsil, what would the Texans have had to pay to move up as far as 13 to draft a LT and that was after he had slid, imagine what it would have cost if that video hadn't come out and his projected number 1 or even top 5 had panned out? Everyone compares his value to Dillard but that's wrong, the actual comparison from the last draft is Johan Williams, anybody want to try and figure what it would have cost us to move up to get Williams?

He was expensive no question and yeah they should have never let it get that far, though still don't know where and when they would have gotten anybody in the top 15 but that's the price you pay. His contract is going to be through the roof but again you are going to have that with any non-rookie LT, which a rookie LT wouldn't have helped us, after the Raiders paid Brown like an elite player and then turned around and made him a damn guard.
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
I think value is going to cause a debate here because most people think BOB is over paying even if we got a good player, and that is a debate on its own of lifting a proven player with draft capital and having to pay higher salary soon versus having draft picks that may work out and having cheaper assets. Truth is noone can win or lose the debate because we don't know if the picks work.

The word I would use is immediate fit and production. It seems in the past the GM was getting guys that had potential, but we did not get it soon or at all. Now, they are getting guys like Hyde, Stills, Tunsil that are making a impact before knowing the playbook, so seems when the coach buys and eats the groceries, he gets stuff he likes and wants to munch sooner. Our salary cap enabled us to execute this strategy, I would not get used to it because we now have lost our picks and will soon likely not have the cap space with all the guys to tie up.

As many have said, we should not have gotten to this point, but seems we plugged the real holes (minus CB), and started the shift to an offensive versus defensive identity. If the oline finally has depth, we can let the defense get refreshed a bit next year.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
When your job is on the line most will definitely go all out to save it. That imo is whats going on over there on Kirby Drive.

Now on to these players we acquired.

Some people tend to act like we didn't try to acquire top free agents. The thing is during those attempts the situation just didn't play out. Now that we finally acquired a true LT. The situation kinda worked in our favor. The third party was willing to work with us. Unlike the other two situations in which they were free agents. Now the price was steep on all three those situation. This time around we were able to work out a deal because we were dealing with a team verse a player.

Unfortunate circumstances landed us Carlos Hyde. If Miller doesn't go down with a season ending injury. We wouldn't have brought in Hyde. Duke on the other hand was in the works way before the injury. Plus he wanted out of his situation in Cleveland.

The rumors were true about them going after another receiver. Again it came at a steep price but with the injury history of Fuller and Coutee. They had to go out of their way to pick up another deep threat who can take the top of the defense at any given moment. Stills was the perfect fit and Miami was very willing. Especially knowing we were in a desperate state.

In conclusion:

So far so good. These three additions are working out as planned. But whenever your job is hanging on by a thread, you have to throw caution to the wind and let it all hang out.
 
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TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I wouldn’t call Tunsil “value” .. HOU was held over the coals on that deal and Tunsil will need to develop into an all pro to make it an even trade or even close to a “value” acquisition.

Everyone is in love with Hyde because he’s cheap soon as he asks for money the mob will turn. Are we the dollar general fans of the NFL? Lol
The value proposition will look worse once Tunsil signs his extension. Assuming he does sign one
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
When your job is on the line most will definitely go all out to save it. That imo is whats going on over there on Kirby Drive.

Now on to these players we acquired.

Some people tend to act like we didn't try to acquire top free agents. The thing is during those attempts the situation just didn't play out. Now that we finally acquired a true LT. The situation kinda worked in our favor. The third party was willing to work with us. Unlike the other two situations in which they were free agents. Now the price was steep on all three those situation. This time around we were able to work out a deal because we were dealing with a team verse a player.

Unfortunate circumstances landed us Carlos Hyde. If Miller doesn't go down with a season ending injury. We wouldn't have brought in Hyde. Duke on the other hand was in the works way before the injury. Plus he wanted out of his situation in Cleveland.

The rumors were true about them going after another receiver. Again it came at a steep price but with the injury history of Fuller and Coutee. They had to go out of their way to pick up another deep threat who can take the top of the defense at any given moment. Stills was the perfect fit and Miami was very willing. Especially knowing we were in a desperate state.

In conclusion:

So far so good. These three additions are working out as planned. But whenever your job is hanging on by a thread, you have to throw caution to the wind and let it all hang out.
I think OBrien was desperate to save his job. So he made the future worse so this team can win 8-9 games again and his job is saved.

He should have been already going all out to make the team good on a sustainable basis, but like he said, it's hard to find and develop olinemen. So he just overpaid for them
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
The value proposition will look worse once Tunsil signs his extension. Assuming he does sign one

This was my thought as well. I've noticed some people don't want to talk about that part of the elephant in the room. The big IF

I was wondering why they didn't try to work out a long time deal during that time. Maybe they are looking to see if things will work out first. Big time gamble because, if it does, Tunsil will want to be paid higher than what Brown got. In which made him the highest paid left tackle in the NFL.

Then of course we might have tried to negotiate a deal but Tunsil camp said hold up. Gambling on himself, let's wait and see. Because if he do ball out like that, let the negotiations mill begin. Who will win the Tunsil sweepstakes.

Next offseason will be interesting.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
I wouldn’t call Tunsil “value” .. HOU was held over the coals on that deal and Tunsil will need to develop into an all pro to make it an even trade or even close to a “value” acquisition.

Everyone is in love with Hyde because he’s cheap soon as he asks for money the mob will turn. Are we the dollar general fans of the NFL? Lol
Seeing how the draft took place, we should have taken Jacobs or a CB. Or I would have been fine with Rashard Penny and/or Lockett for Clowney.

Let's just hope with the moves they made, the Texans make it to the AFCCG or SB. lol
 

Toro Bravo

Waterboy
Recent additions to the team have proved to be of great value. Tunsil, Stills, Hyde... Makes you wonder who's pulling the strings. There has to be some new intelligence at work, for we can contrast these with disasters from the past: Ed Reed, Osweiler,.. Who is making the difference?
As acting GM, I think BOB is finally getting the type of players he wants that Smith and Gaine either didn't recognize or were unwilling to pay for. It is just a fail on Rick Smith's evaluation ability that Reed and Osweiler were acquired.

We paid a steep price for the additions of Tunsil and Stills and even Duke - although I like all of these acquisitions. This got me thinking about the value of young experienced players vs high draft picks. I consider Tunsil and Stills our 1st round picks in 2020 and 2021 and a second in 2021. I actually prefer getting a known commodity vs a draft pick because you have a much better knowledge of the players ability and demeanor.

Statistics indicate that 1st round draft picks are only a 53% chance of success based on Approximate Value (AV). A good definition of a solid first round pick is somebody who averages an Approximate Value each year of 5 or more. AV is a valuation statistic from Pro Football Reference, it is far from perfect, but at this level gives a vague indication of player success, especially when we will be comparing players across different positions.



Would I want to give up a 1st round pick every year - Hell no. But I'm OK with it at certain positions, like QB and LT.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
The value proposition will look worse once Tunsil signs his extension. Assuming he does sign one
Holy smokes can you imagine if Tunsil decides he wants to be somewhere else and goes through the whole hold out scenario YEEESH that would be bad.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Seeing how the draft took place, we should have taken Jacobs or a CB. Or I would have been fine with Rashard Penny and/or Lockett for Clowney.

Let's just hope with the moves they made, the Texans make it to the AFCCG or SB. lol
Super Bowl? Maybe souper salad!! (man i miss those places) anywho. Yeah, if they dont panic at 1 then they could have had more vision to take best CB in entire draft or even trade down at that point. Panic at the disco!!

But hey Howard looks good at RT, I hated the move if he was going to be a guard, but if he excels at RT then I would call it a wash, still would have been nice to get the "best" at a position of need, but hey baby steps!
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Yep. The difference being that the Texans FO "could" have made the extension part of the trade NOW, but didn't do so. That's on them.
I mean Tunsil knows he has these boys dead to rights. Why settle now? Let the cap move up, let the contracts increase commensurate to the cap and then he'll cash in. No rush at all for him unless an injury strikes, and then what? Imagine some kind of career ender like Duane or JD ... big YIKES!

Its a risk/reward business need to hang onto the Texan vision statement of "there's always next year!!" :kitten:
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I mean Tunsil knows he has these boys dead to rights. Why settle now? Let the cap move up, let the contracts increase commensurate to the cap and then he'll cash in. No rush at all for him unless an injury strikes, and then what? Imagine some kind of career ender like Duane or JD ... big YIKES!

Its a risk/reward business need to hang onto the Texan vision statement of "there's always next year!!" :kitten:
I really think they didn't think of it. The previous big trade like this was for Khalil Mack and the bears locked him up
 
This was my thought as well. I've noticed some people don't want to talk about that part of the elephant in the room. The big IF

I was wondering why they didn't try to work out a long time deal during that time. Maybe they are looking to see if things will work out first. Big time gamble because, if it does, Tunsil will want to be paid higher than what Brown got. In which made him the highest paid left tackle in the NFL.

Then of course we might have tried to negotiate a deal but Tunsil camp said hold up. Gambling on himself, let's wait and see. Because if he do ball out like that, let the negotiations mill begin. Who will win the Tunsil sweepstakes.

Next offseason will be interesting.
I don't think it will be an issue really, much as I didn't like the Martin deal it did show that BoB, for better or worse, is willing to pony up the money. I really think it was Gaine that was being cheap and no that's not covering for BoB. Before Gaine Texans had spent 97-99% of their cap and then in the year Gaine took over that dropped to 92%. Seems small but when you consider that they are required to spend what like 87% of it that's almost the minimal they could spend. Also Gaine was the GM when they let badger and Kjax walk due to money, which I agree with both on, so Gaine did have a record for needing WD40 to open the wallet. Hell for a bit around here there was speculation that it was the cheapness that got him fired but then we have listed everything under the sun as a reason he got fired so there is that.

Yeah Tunsil will want to be paid more than Brown but that was going to happen anyway on any team. Teams keep shooting themselves and the whole league in the foot when they pay average to below average players like Brown and Martin like elite players. We see the same thing with QBs, latest reports say Mahomes extension will be somewhere around the 200 million range and Prescott is wanting anywhere from 34 million to 40 million a year. LTs aren't much better and even if we make Tunsil the highest paid LT in history that will be broken by whatever LT follows him just like the QBs. The cap isn't keeping up with the contracts but if you go MLB route and get rid of the cap well then Seattle is going to become the new Yankees and just buy a championship.
 
I really think they didn't think of it. The previous big trade like this was for Khalil Mack and the bears locked him up
And they also broke records to do it.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24543080/chicago-bears-reach-agreement-trade-khalil-mack-oakland-raiders

"Mack is now the highest-paid defensive player in NFL history. The deal, which averages $23.5 million per season, includes $90 million in guaranteed money and $60 million at signing, the source said."

Can you honestly say that if the Texans had made that kind of deal, or most likely a bigger one, that you wouldn't be on here screaming about how BoB is spending like a drunken sailor or something?

Edit: Also pretty sure that the Bears aren't a great example of trading in the NFL seeing as they spent two 1st for Jay Cutler and traded the farm away to move up one spot and get Trubisky when Mahomes and Watson would still be on the board.
 
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TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
And they also broke records to do it.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24543080/chicago-bears-reach-agreement-trade-khalil-mack-oakland-raiders

"Mack is now the highest-paid defensive player in NFL history. The deal, which averages $23.5 million per season, includes $90 million in guaranteed money and $60 million at signing, the source said."

Can you honestly say that if the Texans had made that kind of deal, or most likely a bigger one, that you wouldn't be on here screaming about how BoB is spending like a drunken sailor or something?

Edit: Also pretty sure that the Bears aren't a great example of trading in the NFL seeing as they spent two 1st for Jay Cutler and traded the farm away to move up one spot and get Trubisky when Mahomes and Watson would still be on the board.
We won't know for awhile who won the mack trade. But he is absolutely the #1 edge in the NFL. Can't quite say Tunsil is the best LT
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Best in the NFL? Not so far this year
Who is the best? He has 9 tackles, 3 sacks, 3 forced fumbles and a pass deflection. I'm sure he's getting doubled and the bears are one of the best defenses in the league
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Who is the best? He has 9 tackles, 3 sacks, 3 forced fumbles and a pass deflection. I'm sure he's getting doubled and the bears are one of the best defenses in the league
For that matter, Mercilus has 11 tackles, 4 sacks, 3 forced fumbles a pass defense and an interception. But so far leading the way is Shaquil Barrett with 12 tackles, 8 sacks, 2 forced fumbles
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
For that matter, Mercilus has 11 tackles, 4 sacks, 3 forced fumbles a pass defense and an interception. But so far leading the way is Shaquil Barrett with 12 tackles, 8 sacks, 2 forced fumbles
Mercilus doesn't draw doubles and I'm guessing the other guy doesn't either. Texans defense is not as good as last year so far
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
And they also broke records to do it.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24543080/chicago-bears-reach-agreement-trade-khalil-mack-oakland-raiders

"Mack is now the highest-paid defensive player in NFL history. The deal, which averages $23.5 million per season, includes $90 million in guaranteed money and $60 million at signing, the source said."

Can you honestly say that if the Texans had made that kind of deal, or most likely a bigger one, that you wouldn't be on here screaming about how BoB is spending like a drunken sailor or something?

Edit: Also pretty sure that the Bears aren't a great example of trading in the NFL seeing as they spent two 1st for Jay Cutler and traded the farm away to move up one spot and get Trubisky when Mahomes and Watson would still be on the board.
I'm not sure O'Brien could possibly have gotten any more grief than he did...after trading two 1sts and a 2nd.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
They're also 2-1, not 0-3. I'm also pointing much bigger fingers at the new secondary.
Part of it is secondary definitely. Also could be worse run defense. Additionally Mercilus helped last year in dropping in coverage
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
They're also 2-1, not 0-3. I'm also pointing much bigger fingers at the new secondary.
I don't think the bears are that good on offense. That's the danger of putting so much on one or a few players. Do they have capspace or picks to get better? Or is what they have enough? We'll see
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was


LMAOOOOOOO are people here really trying to start a Mercilus vs Mack argument based on stats through 3 games???? REAALLLYY? My god.
 

ATXtexanfan

Hall of Fame
hyde was the only legit move. sold the farm out of desperation for tunsil and miami threw in stills because the owner and him didnt see eye to eye. the fact that hyde is blowing everyone away shows how terrible we were at rb position. 5 teams in 3 years is it not? use him up this year. might not be here next year. overpaid for duke as well.

superbowl will buy some time for the management on kirby lane
 


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