ShinobiMusashi
Waterboy
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Injury Thread
- Thread starter CloakNNNdagger
- Start date
Scooter
Funky
Any late news on Tunsil? When it happened I channeled my inner CND (we're still ignorant, but learning, thank you and welcome back!) and said "High Ankle Sprain" based on the collision and tried to remember the timeline. When he came back I just assumed that I missed - though, unless the bone is showing offensive linemen don't like to miss plays (and will still walk off the field), which I'm guessing can make diagnostics a bit trickier than other positions. It tends to be later for offensive linemen, and it's later ... how's he doing doc?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
As I originally noted by mechanism, he's dealing with a grade 1 high ankle which allows him to continue to function..........but can easily be aggravated and worsened without rest.........especially with any significant twist of his leg. Lets hope he makes it through a clean game.
Scooter
Funky
Much appreciated. We already know how the coaching staff will approach it. Would you suggest it might be wiser to keep him out this week as a "miss him one game in order to have him healthy the rest" scenario, or is last Sunday through today considered 'rest' and he's subject to fate regardless of health percentage?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
A grade I high ankle is a little stranger animal in that in some cases a player can play through it with minimal rest and rehab, as long as they can avoid significant twisting and further aggravating the ankle during game situation. It's definitely a calculated chance, but one that many players and medical staff/coaches would not uncommonly take under these particular circumstances.
JamTex
Hall Of Fame Texans Fan!
It's great to see ya back Doc.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I reviewed parts of today's game. Reid went out with another right shoulder injury. Today, he was already wearing a shoulder harness for his 2 previous shoulder subluxations sustained this season. Today, he has appeared to have suffered yet another subluxation or dislocation. Either way, he is likely close to requiring shoulder labrum repair surgery to stabilize his shoulder.
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amazing80
Hall of Fame
Can he play through it or will it worsen the injury if he does? What’s the timeline for that type of surgery?
Doc, did you spend much time watching JJ today? Before the season he said he is feeling much better & is able to move side to side better than last season.
Did you notice anything that would confirm or deny that?
Did you notice anything that would confirm or deny that?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
There is less than a 20% chance he makes it through the season........meanwhile, his function will be be lessened and damage extended with further instability. The typical indication for surgery is >2 subluxation/dislocatons in a season. As far a return to play after surgery..............not in the same season.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I watch him the first 2 games and commented on it in today's game thread.........but before the game actually began:
I did not watch most of the game today, but taped it and will watch it when I have the time. I'll get back to you with my observations then. I'll also keep in mind that what is left of the Chargers OL is not particularly good............and Rivers is not particularly mobile.
Any risk of long term damage?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
This is his 3rd episode. With this type of instability, typically recurrence becomes more common, more frequent and caused by lesser and lesser and lesser trauma. In fact, I have known one athlete that following several shoulder dislocations popped his shoulder trying to open a difficult new jar of peanut butter. Meanwhile trauma to the tissues to the labrum and the rotator cuff and eventually to the boney structures setting up arthritis is a concern. Even with the best of repairs, studies have shown recurrent instability occurs in 10-15% of young athletes. The trend has been to repair these instabilities sooner than later.
I hope that answers your question.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Having gone back and watched most of the game, I really haven't changed my impression from the comments I made above from pregame. Watt was usually 1-on-1. The Chargers' OL was bad in general, but especially their RT Sam Tevi who Watt mostly was pitted against 1-on-1. Watt's first solo sack came in the 3rd Q at ~3:26 when Tevi led him widely around the back 1-on-1............then inexplicably just stopped and release him to go after Rivers for the sack. Then in the 4th Q at 3:00 Watt catches Tevi flat-footed 1-on-1 and blow by him on his way to his second sack. Thanks to Tevi, Watt did not need to overwork his core or knee. The larger sample size, the more we'll know.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The Panthers are still calling Cam Newton's injury a "foot" injury.........as I stated right when it first occurred, I guarantee you that it is what they are afraid to call it...........a Lisfranc injury.............we won't be seeing him at NRG.
Yep, right again. I saw on the ESPN crawl that Newton is already been declared "OUT" for the Texans game.
I dearly wish the Texans would look big picture with a young talent like Reid, but with OB and, by extension, RAC, I highly doubt they will. Reid will be cannon fodder. Shoulders are complicated and tricky.
In your opinion, will Cam follow the same degenerative path that Schaub followed or have there been improvements in repair and rehab of the joint?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
If you look closely, you can see the black shoulder harness peeking out from the right sleeve of Reid's jersey.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Newtons Lisfranc has evidently not involved instability with a fracture or dislocatiion with completelyruptured ligaments (as was the case with Schaub).............which in such cases mandate surgery. In lieu of the aforementioned, a cast or a boot should be worn in nonweight-bearing fashion for 6-8 weeks or the sprain could progress to instability and require ultimately surgery.
He was injured Aug 22 in TC and played in week 1 and 2...............looked terrible..............should have been booted and nonweight-bearing from the time of the injury.
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Looks like one of our top nemesis TY Hilton has sustained a quad tear. If it is a partial quad muscle tear, it is likely at least a grade 2 and he would probably be out at least 1 month. If it is a partial quad tendon tear, he will need surgery and his season is over. Either way, with the limited information we have, it is unlikely we see him next month in Indy.........and possibly this year.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
CNNND, I could probably assume you've posted more in depth info on the Lisfranc Injury during Schaub's time but would it be asking to much if you could explain this again since I wasn't around this board back then?
Use the search function and you'll get all kinds of info from 2011/2012.
MightyTExan
It's go time!
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/09/24/report-cam-newton-has-lisfranc-injury/
Report: Cam Newton has Lisfranc injury
Panthers quarterback Cam Newton‘s foot injury has already forced him to miss one game and will force him to miss at least one more. And it may be several more beyond that.
Newton has a Lisfranc injury to his foot, according to Joe Person of TheAthletic.com. That’s an injury that often requires season-ending surgery, but the report says that’s not expected for Newton.
Still, the Lisfranc injury is generally serious enough that it requires multiple weeks to heal. It seems unlikely that Newton would be back before the Panthers’ Week Seven bye.
'OUR' Doc is above the pale
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Besides the suggestion of the search function, for those interested in this injury, this video although technically detailed can be very educational and interesting for a lay person simply for its visual value alone.
Boris
All Pro
https://sports.yahoo.com/reports-ca...out-longer-than-first-believed-151611613.html
Newton’s left foot issue is a Lisfranc injury; multiple sources confirmed that as the nature of the problem.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Thank you CNNND, you have once again came through with a great explanation or attached information. It was worth the 11+ minute watch.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
From what I'm hearing Jalen Ramsey is going to show up on the upcoming Jags Injury Report with a back issue and a hamstring tear........and will not practice today. The question I have is if this comes to be, is this part of his quest for trade? Let's not forget that Monday he stated that he was dying of the flu.........
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PFT was saying he's added the "back injury" and "hamstring" to his "flu" issues today. Here's hoping that the Jaguars hold firm...and that Jalen continues to stay home through week 9.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
You posted before I added to my post...........I was searching for the appropriate "sick" emoticon!PFT was saying he's added the "back injury" and "hamstring" to his "flu" issues today. Here's hoping that the Jaguars hold firm...and that Jalen continues to stay home through week 9.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Kelemete has been placed on IR.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
TEXANS WEEK 4 INJURY REPORT
DID NOT PARTICIPATE
HENDERSON [ILLNESS].........NEW.........LET'S HOPE THAT THIS IS NOT AN EPISODE OF HIS CROHN'S COLITIS REARING ITS UGLY HEAD
LIMITED PARTICIPATION
HOPKINS [MOSTLY RESTING HIS RIBS IN THE TUB]
FULLER [MOSTLY SHARING THE TUB WITH HOPKINS]
FULL PARTICIPATION
TUNSIL [HIGH ANKLE/TURF TOE].............NEW TOE COMPENSATORY TO ANKLE
OMENIHU [LOW ANKLE CONFLICTING WITH WHAT AM HEARING>>>>MCL KNEE.........WATCHING THE GAME, IT LOOKED LIKE A KNEE]...........NEW]
TAIWAN JONES [HAMSTRING]............GRADE II TEAR..........HAS NOT PLAYED IN THE LAST 2 GAMES.........DO NOT EXPECT HIM TO PLAY SUNDAY.
REID [SHOULDER]............WILL PLAY AGAIN WITH HIS HARNESS.............AND WILL PROBABLY PLAY UNTIL HE REPEATEDLY DISLOCATES AND IS RELOCATED, HOPING HE CAN MAKE IT TO THE OFFSEASON FOR SURGERY
MERCILUS [SHOULDER]..........NEW.........HOPEFULLY, NOT THE BEGINNING OF A PROBLEM WITH THE PROXIMAL PECTORALIS MAJOR TENDON THAT HE TORE IN 2017
BLACKSON [TURF TOE]........NEW
GIPSON [WRIST/HIP]........NEW HIP
HYDE [SHOULDER]
MANCZ [ANKLE]
DID NOT PARTICIPATE
HENDERSON [ILLNESS].........NEW.........LET'S HOPE THAT THIS IS NOT AN EPISODE OF HIS CROHN'S COLITIS REARING ITS UGLY HEAD
LIMITED PARTICIPATION
HOPKINS [MOSTLY RESTING HIS RIBS IN THE TUB]
FULLER [MOSTLY SHARING THE TUB WITH HOPKINS]
FULL PARTICIPATION
TUNSIL [HIGH ANKLE/TURF TOE].............NEW TOE COMPENSATORY TO ANKLE
OMENIHU [LOW ANKLE CONFLICTING WITH WHAT AM HEARING>>>>MCL KNEE.........WATCHING THE GAME, IT LOOKED LIKE A KNEE]...........NEW]
TAIWAN JONES [HAMSTRING]............GRADE II TEAR..........HAS NOT PLAYED IN THE LAST 2 GAMES.........DO NOT EXPECT HIM TO PLAY SUNDAY.
REID [SHOULDER]............WILL PLAY AGAIN WITH HIS HARNESS.............AND WILL PROBABLY PLAY UNTIL HE REPEATEDLY DISLOCATES AND IS RELOCATED, HOPING HE CAN MAKE IT TO THE OFFSEASON FOR SURGERY
MERCILUS [SHOULDER]..........NEW.........HOPEFULLY, NOT THE BEGINNING OF A PROBLEM WITH THE PROXIMAL PECTORALIS MAJOR TENDON THAT HE TORE IN 2017
BLACKSON [TURF TOE]........NEW
GIPSON [WRIST/HIP]........NEW HIP
HYDE [SHOULDER]
MANCZ [ANKLE]
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
PANTHERS WEEK 4 INJURY REPORT
DID NOT PRACTICE
QB CAM NEWTON [FOOT].........LISFRANC INJURY SUFFERED IN PRESEASON AUG 22 AND NOT ADDRESSED SMARTLY.............AT LEAST 6-8 WEEK NONWEIGHT-BEARING.............POSSIBLY THE SEASON
LB BRUCE IRVIN [HAMSTRING]...........SUSTAINED IN PRESEASON AND HAS NOT PLAYED SINCE...........HAS HAD HISTORY OF HAMSTRING TEARS DATING BACK TO AT LEAST 2015
DT KAWANN SHORT [SHOULDER]..........SUBLUXED HIS SHOULDER IN WEEK 2 AND DID NOT PLAY LAST WEEK
G TRAI TURNER [LOW ANKLE]...........SUSTAINED IN WEEK 2............MISSED LAST WEEK............HAD A HISTORY OF 3 CONCUSSIONS IN THE PAST YEAR, INCLUDING THE BEGINNING OF SEPT THIS YEAR
DE MARQUIS HAYNES [ELBOW]..........NEW.........HYPEREXTENSION.........IF HE DOES MANAGE TO PLAY SUNDAY, I WOULD EXPECT TO SEE HIM WEARING A BRACE
LIMITED PRACTICE
CB DONTE JACKSON [GROIN]...........NEW..........HAD GROIN AND RELATED QUAD PROBLEMS LAST YEAR
TE GREG OLSEN [KNEE]............SUSTAINED IN WEEK 1..............DID NOT MISS ANY GAMES
FULL PRACTICE
S RASHAAN GAULDEN [GROIN]..........SUSTAINED IN WEEK 1...........HAS NOT PLAYED SINCE
DID NOT PRACTICE
QB CAM NEWTON [FOOT].........LISFRANC INJURY SUFFERED IN PRESEASON AUG 22 AND NOT ADDRESSED SMARTLY.............AT LEAST 6-8 WEEK NONWEIGHT-BEARING.............POSSIBLY THE SEASON
LB BRUCE IRVIN [HAMSTRING]...........SUSTAINED IN PRESEASON AND HAS NOT PLAYED SINCE...........HAS HAD HISTORY OF HAMSTRING TEARS DATING BACK TO AT LEAST 2015
DT KAWANN SHORT [SHOULDER]..........SUBLUXED HIS SHOULDER IN WEEK 2 AND DID NOT PLAY LAST WEEK
G TRAI TURNER [LOW ANKLE]...........SUSTAINED IN WEEK 2............MISSED LAST WEEK............HAD A HISTORY OF 3 CONCUSSIONS IN THE PAST YEAR, INCLUDING THE BEGINNING OF SEPT THIS YEAR
DE MARQUIS HAYNES [ELBOW]..........NEW.........HYPEREXTENSION.........IF HE DOES MANAGE TO PLAY SUNDAY, I WOULD EXPECT TO SEE HIM WEARING A BRACE
LIMITED PRACTICE
CB DONTE JACKSON [GROIN]...........NEW..........HAD GROIN AND RELATED QUAD PROBLEMS LAST YEAR
TE GREG OLSEN [KNEE]............SUSTAINED IN WEEK 1..............DID NOT MISS ANY GAMES
FULL PRACTICE
S RASHAAN GAULDEN [GROIN]..........SUSTAINED IN WEEK 1...........HAS NOT PLAYED SINCE
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Aaron Wilson originally reported Omenihu having an ankle injury.......he deleted it. The Texans then officially changed the injury to Knee. A late Did Not Play addition was Henderson for Illness. I will add Henderson to the Injury Report above.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
HOPKINS, FULLER, JONES, AND TUNSIL ALL UPGRADED TO FULL PARTICIPATION.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
PANTHERS INJURY REPORT
Virtually no chance Short, Turner, Jackson and McCoy plays Sunday.
Does not look real good for Irvin or Haynes to play Sunday.
I expect Olsen to play Sunday.
Virtually no chance Short, Turner, Jackson and McCoy plays Sunday.
Does not look real good for Irvin or Haynes to play Sunday.
I expect Olsen to play Sunday.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
This seems to be a designation relegated to a "rest day."
Okay. Thanks!
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
************************************************************************
How Cam Newton’s vegan diet may be hurting Panthers QB’s play and injury recovery
BY BRENDAN MARKS
SEPTEMBER 27, 2019 06:00 AM, UPDATED 4 HOURS 2 MINUTES AGO
Cam Newton and Hannibal Buress walk into a vegan restaurant, and leave with a Ziploc bag of magic mushrooms and new perspectives.
Wait, what?
It’s true. Newton and his friend, Buress, a comedian, shot an episode of the quarterback’s vlog over lunch one afternoon this past offseason, live from the patio of Los Angeles vegan restaurant Gracias Madre. The episode — appropriately titled ‘Yo! This Vegan?’ — features the pair trying flash-fried cauliflower in a cashew cheese sauce, with barbecue jackfruit carnitas tacos that easily could pass for pulled pork.
Only, Newton doesn’t eat pork — or any kind of animal byproduct. He has been vegan since February, his latest attempt at maximizing his physical performance and honing his body. Or, as he said in a recent news conference, getting “vegan strong.”
While Buress jokingly gave Newton a baggie of psychedelic mushrooms at the start of the episode, it’s Newton’s response to that “gift” that bears a little more analysis. The encounter is hilarious, but months later, Newton’s words carry more significance:
“Every time a person thinks a person is vegan,” he said, shaking the bag, “they just think that you eat stuff like this all day.”
Newton’s diet would normally be his business. But after two underwhelming performances to begin the 2019 season, coupled with a lingering mid-left foot sprain that will cost him at least two games, it bears further examination.
The Observer spoke to several sports nutritionists, dietitians and trainers about Newton’s plant-based diet, and they all came to the same conclusion:
What Newton is eating — or rather, isn’t — may be contributing to his on-field struggles and his body’s ability to recovery from injury.
“Go back to 2015 Cam, badass Cam. He was a pescatarian,” said Chris Howard, a certified nutritionist and strength and conditioning coach from Waxhaw. “Salmon, shrimp, you get a lot of good fats and complete proteins. In fact, (fish) is one of the best protein sources there is.
“Now you take away the most valuable part of that (diet), and ... there’s just no way around it: He can’t recover as well with less nutrients, with less calories and with less muscle mass. It’s just not going to happen.”
AN INTRO TO VEGANISM
Newton first went vegan in February, according to a March episode of his vlog, moving on from the pescatarian diet he had maintained since the spring of 2013.
Vegans differ from vegetarians in that they eat no animal products, while vegetarians may eat eggs and dairy products. Pescatarians do not eat meat, with the exception of seafood.
“I’m a constant work in progress. I always try to tap into something that’s going to better me, whether as an athlete, as a parent, as a person. So this offseason, I was like man, I want to try something different,” Newton said in the episode. “I’m loving how I’m feeling.”
Nancy Clark, a Boston-based sports nutritionist and the author of Nancy Clark’s Sports Nutrition Guidebook, said it absolutely is possible for professional athletes to perform at a high level as vegans, but it takes extensive overcompensating.
“The question is: Can you be a vegan athlete and be successful? Of course you can. And if you Google vegan athletes, you’ll see a whole bunch of Olympians and names in every sport,” Clark said. “The concern is: Is he consuming enough protein and enough calories? When you’re in calorie deficit, which he obviously has been because he’s been losing weight, some of the protein that you eat gets burned for gas in the car instead of getting used to build muscle.”
Vegan athletes typically experience deficiencies in vitamin B6 and B12, which can contribute to weakness and fatigue. The primary issue for a vegan athlete, especially one with the listed size Newton has at 6-foot-5 and 245 pounds, is simply not eating enough calories.
“Every human body has what used to be called a set point,” said John Howie, a former champion body builder who’s now a strength trainer with a master’s in nutrition. “That’s a percent of body fat that’s comfortable for that physiology, that it’s going to fight to maintain even if you try to diet beyond that.
“If you get any heavier, you’re adding fat, and if you get any lighter, you’re losing muscle.”
Howie also refers to the set point as a person’s “fighting weight,” but it means the same thing: That the body becomes comfortable at a certain weight, and losing weight beyond that can lead to negative consequences.
Coach Ron Rivera previously said Newton had gotten up to 260-265 pounds during the 2016 season. In the same vlog that Newton announced he had gone vegan, he said his goal was to get down to 235-238 pounds this offseason.
“Some people think that if you lose a little weight, you become a little lighter on your feet, and that might be true in that you don’t have to propel quite as much weight going forward,” Howard said. “But when you’re a guy that’s used to operating at 250 or whatever he really was, his body’s not behaving the way it used to. Certainly, he’s not going to be willing to lower a shoulder and make contact as much at that weight, and it’s going to feel differently.”
Howard and Howie said they saw a noticeably slimmer Newton in the Panthers’ Week 1 loss to the Los Angeles Rams.
Even losing 10 pounds, they said, could result in less energy during athletic competition, as well as an increased susceptibility to injury.
“If he’s in a state of starvation, although minimal and self-imposed, you can overtrain a lot easier,” Howie said. “If he is operating in starvation mode, your body will fight to protect organs. It’ll take muscle after the fat’s gone — the next choice is muscle because that’s all that’s left to burn.
“At 250 pounds, he’d need about 3,800 calories a day to maintain that weight. You almost can’t eat enough beans and vegetables to eat that many calories.”
SOME VEGAN NFL PLAYERS SUCCEED. OTHERS STRUGGLE
THE REST OF THE STORY
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
Hey Doc... sorry not entirely injury-related but more of a curiosity given your expertise. Are you a proponent of a vegan diet both in high performing athletes and us normal mouth breathing forum posters?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I am basically vegan and feel that athletes can excel following the basic caloric, protein (amino acid), and vitamin requirements (sometime with supplementation) to maintain proper nutrition and performance. Many are not willing or knowledgeable to do so. For non athletes. there is overwhelming scientific/medical evidence demonstrating significantly lower risk of virtual every disease known to man.........obesity, cancer, digestive disorders, arthritis, diabetes, heart disease, vascular disease, kidney disease, liver disease, depression and anxiety disorders...........and the list goes on and on.
cameronkrazie86
Rookie
Thanks for posting this. I legitimately had no clue there were so many health related benefits to going on a vegan diet. Will be strongly looking into this, thank you!