It's gonna be like last year when Rankin was our top pick LOL
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After all the trades, the Texans aren't realistic contenders
- Thread starter TheKDog
- Start date
It's gonna be like last year when Rankin was our top pick LOL
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
How many of us are going to be shocked if somehow both Davenport and Rankin become better OL with other teams? Both guys had the talent to be better than what we saw......maybe their new OL Coaches will do what Devlin has failed to do, coach them up and into better players.
Especially Rankin. No reason he should suck this bad.
But even worse will be if Tunsil isn't as good under this staff
In my opinion one of the biggest take aways from all this is there seems to be a new philosophy with the Texans. A new sense of urgency. I believe this starts with the owner. Cal seems to be much more proactive than his dad.
Would Bob McNair have fired Gaine after one year?
Would either Tunsil (gas mask bong) or Stills (kneeler) have been Texans worthy under Bob McNair?
Having said all that you can still crash & burn by making aggressive moves just as easily as making no moves. All we can really do is wait & see.
Would Bob McNair have fired Gaine after one year?
Would either Tunsil (gas mask bong) or Stills (kneeler) have been Texans worthy under Bob McNair?
Having said all that you can still crash & burn by making aggressive moves just as easily as making no moves. All we can really do is wait & see.
Porky
Hall of Fame
Anyone that has read much of my musings knows I'm no sunshine pumper, and I'm not very happy at all with the Clowney trade, but the Tunsil/Stills trade is not only highly defensible, I'm stoked about it. People are saying we mortgaged our future, and I'm over here thinking we just saved it. Without #4, there is no freaking future. And the last I looked, future draft picks can't do a damn thing to protect our most valuable asset. As far as I'm concerned, it's about damn time they made a bold move like this.
it's VERY clear that there is a new day down on Kirby. Cal is doing things that Bob would never even consider. And it's also very clear that BOB has always wanted to have a more aggressive philosophy but between RS, BG, and BN - it's always been this sort of passive, milquetoast approach to team building.
The Texans have always been like that shy guy at the HS dance sitting in the corner sipping his punch and just hoping a pretty girl would come up and ask him to dance. Now it's like that shy kid has turned into Arthur Fonzeralli (aka Fonzi). Now, the shy kid is wearing a leather jacket, all the girls are fawning over him and he's cutting in and demanding the girl dances with him with a snap of the fingers.
What some of you fail to consider is there is more than one method of player acquisition. In a perfect world, you want your high picks. But I really think there is a sea change down on Kirby. I expect them to be bigger players in the FA market the next couple of years. Pull in one decent to good starter in FA each year and that bridges the gap in your player acquisition. There could also be other trades, who knows.
Could it fail? Sure. But my God, this sky is falling chicken-little unbridled pessimism is about the stupidest damn thing I've seen among the fan base. You want to be pessimistic because we potentially saved Watson's career, be my guest. But I'm pumped. This offense (after some seasoning and jelling) is going to be dynamic.
If you're that upset about it, go find another team to ***** and moan about.
it's VERY clear that there is a new day down on Kirby. Cal is doing things that Bob would never even consider. And it's also very clear that BOB has always wanted to have a more aggressive philosophy but between RS, BG, and BN - it's always been this sort of passive, milquetoast approach to team building.
The Texans have always been like that shy guy at the HS dance sitting in the corner sipping his punch and just hoping a pretty girl would come up and ask him to dance. Now it's like that shy kid has turned into Arthur Fonzeralli (aka Fonzi). Now, the shy kid is wearing a leather jacket, all the girls are fawning over him and he's cutting in and demanding the girl dances with him with a snap of the fingers.
What some of you fail to consider is there is more than one method of player acquisition. In a perfect world, you want your high picks. But I really think there is a sea change down on Kirby. I expect them to be bigger players in the FA market the next couple of years. Pull in one decent to good starter in FA each year and that bridges the gap in your player acquisition. There could also be other trades, who knows.
Could it fail? Sure. But my God, this sky is falling chicken-little unbridled pessimism is about the stupidest damn thing I've seen among the fan base. You want to be pessimistic because we potentially saved Watson's career, be my guest. But I'm pumped. This offense (after some seasoning and jelling) is going to be dynamic.
If you're that upset about it, go find another team to ***** and moan about.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
BUT our future! We mortgaged it..We don't have a 1st or a 2nd!
Good post Porky & it sums up my thoughts on the matter. This post needs to be plastered on the front of this MB and these sports radio knuckleheads here in Houston need to read it in its entirety every time they come back from break.Can't hit the ball if you don't swing.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Damn, hard to keep up when a thread goes from page 4 to page 9 in 1 afternoon.
They'd better get this guy locked up really soon, or it 1) becomes even more expensive, or 2) it turns into a Clowney situation where we're tagging him and going through that crap again. They gave up WAY too much to let it get there so they'd better get that extension done pronto. But then again, not a very forward thinking franchise so.....
Are you freaking serious? Dude, you're something else. If willy-nilly giving away picks and players is the change they've made, and you think that's a positive, they might as well move to St. Louis or somewhere now, 'cause it's about to get a whole lot worse than it's ever been.
They'd better get this guy locked up really soon, or it 1) becomes even more expensive, or 2) it turns into a Clowney situation where we're tagging him and going through that crap again. They gave up WAY too much to let it get there so they'd better get that extension done pronto. But then again, not a very forward thinking franchise so.....
Are you freaking serious? Dude, you're something else. If willy-nilly giving away picks and players is the change they've made, and you think that's a positive, they might as well move to St. Louis or somewhere now, 'cause it's about to get a whole lot worse than it's ever been.
Porky
Hall of Fame
It's not willy nilly giving up picks. The Astros just gave up 3 of their top minor league players for Grienke. To get a proven player at a position of high importance, it's worth the investment. It's not like they gave up 3 high picks for Zeke Elliot. Even though he's a stud, a RB is not the same as a LT. To me, a LT is the second most important position on a team.
They've just solved that issue for the next decade or more.
They've just solved that issue for the next decade or more.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
The going rate for a LT in 1979 was a 1st and a 6th round pick . That's what the Oilers gave up for Leon Gray so you have to account for inflation .
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
The going rate for an All-Pro, 4 time ProBowl LT 2 years ago was a 2nd and a 3rd. Tunsil is no Duane Brown. Might be eventually, but he’s not there.
And if they locked him up and he’s your LT for the next 6 years, then I can live with the costs to get him.
It’s a bit concerning we haven’t heard anything about an extension yet. They really need to get that done. The price was too high to fumble this.
Assuming Tunsil turns into what we hope he does. Just like any baseball prospect, you don’t know that yet.
And like I said, the Texans have to get him extended. The sooner the better. They can’t screw this up. It cost too much.
And NFL picks are a ton more valuable than baseball prospects. The Texans may still need to address OL next year, definitely going to need to address the secondary, finding a Clowney replacement wouldn’t be bad, Mercilus is in his last year, and you have to have picks to do those things.
And if you think it gets done in FA, well, you’ve got Tunsil you need to sign, and Watson is coming up. Not to mention Reader, Joseph, Miller along with Mercilus, all with expiring contracts. Also all the 1 year deals expiring.
It doesn’t get any easier, especially when you don’t have the draft capital to help.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Tunsil has a much higher ceiling than Duane Brown and may already be better . Tunsil had the talent to be the first guy taken in his draft but the weed photo came out . Bottom line is the Texans may have bought and overpaid but they have a stud .
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
That's fine then. Then get him extended now. Don't botch this like they seem to do everything else.
If Tunsil has a really good season then his price tag just goes up
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Find another team if we're questioning OB huh? Lol!
Here goes one of them now. One of the ones that has endlessly trashed OB who is now telling other people to find another team for even questioning OB's trade moves as a GM.
Hilarious how quickly so many jump to defend a guy's GM moves when just last week he was the dumbest man that ever worked in the NFL to them.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
Maybe instead of hating the guy no matter what, they like one of his moves this weekend. I actually liked all the trades minus Clowney. Fire BOB's ass and I don't care, I can still like the move. Does not make me right, but maybe it is not the person but the activity people like, you may not and don't seem to, but some of us wanted this young OT, speed receiver, #2 RB, and CB help. Cannot explain not just letting Clowney sit until a contender came calling, but in all, I am happy. Come on, we are days away from NFL action, this is when we should all be jacked up. I ain't into winning the off season championship (it helps), I want to see what happens on the field before getting out the pitchfork when BOB misues his challenge flag, forgets to use Time outs, you know...
Agreed on getting him signed and it will happen.
Is Tunsil the equivalent of a 2020 1st rd pick in your eyes?
Is Stills/4th/6th the equivalent of a 2nd rd pick in 2021 in your eyes? In mine the answer is yes.
So all they really gave up to get a 10 yr 25 yr old franchise LT is a 2021 1st. After watching Davenport get 2 guys put out for the season in consecutive yrs I'm more than willing to give up a 2021 1st to protect Watson and think those who feel differently are the ones being shortsighted. Unless they just have a morbid curiosity with liking to see Watson get the crap beat out of him every Sunday. This trade gives Watson a chance to develop into the 49ers Steve Young, rather than the Tampa Steve Young. A small price to pay indeed.
If you want to talk about Clowney, they screwed that up from the beginning and made their screw up worse as time went on. I wonder why BOB didn't franchise Clowney and trade him next offseason? The situation was either toxic or the Texans org/BOB was into the $$$$ saving mode.
Best trade Bum ever made, other than the Earl trade.
Bum new the importance of an all pro LT.
What I wonder is if Kubiak made the Tunsil trade would the Scooter/Dog etc... be complaining or would they think that it was a great trade? If I was a betting man I would bet the latter.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Scooter hated OB more than anyone. He never praised a single thing he said or did and never would. From the moment he got here he felt like OB was to blame for Kubiak's departure. Never understood it.
Simply put he's an Aggie/Simpleton
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
That makes more sense. I never understood why he blamed and hated OB so much over Kubiak's firing. He was just the new guy to take the job.
Texansballer74
The Marine
People have to understand it takes some people time to adjust to drastic changes. Some people need to see said changes come to the light before being on board with it. So instead of blasting those type of people. Try understanding their point of view. We all have agreed that this organization has been dysfunctional for a hot minute. This is not the first drastic move they have made. So of course some people will be against mortgaging the future for a hope we got it right this time. Or a move that clearly shows desperation. (Someone's job on the line).
Personally I'm on board because of the homerism syndrome I have for all of my Houston Texas teams.
Personally I'm on board because of the homerism syndrome I have for all of my Houston Texas teams.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
With Tunsil , you don't have to rush Howard or Max . Let them play guard if need be . Zac Martin was the rave as a prospect that could play OT but he's played guard . He's also considered the best OL in football .
Tunsil is the equivalent of a 1st. I know you dont understand, but if Tunsil was coming out in the 2020 draft would the Texans pick him in the 1st? Plus they get him a season early. This really isn't that hard to understand.
When has Coutee or WFV for that matter stayed healthy? Do you know how many games Stills has missed in his career? 2
Stills is almost as good a deep threat as WFV and a huge upgrade over V. Smith. The thought of WFV/Stills/Hopkins with a protected Watson delivering them the ball is exciting. IMHO This also gives Coutee plenty of time to get healthy without having to be rushed back.
Tunsil is the equivalent of a 1st. I know you dont understand, but if Tunsil was coming out in the 2020 draft would the Texans pick him in the 1st? Plus they get him a season early. This really isn't that hard to understand.
When has Coutee or WFV for that matter stayed healthy? Do you know how many games Stills has missed in his career? 2
Stills is almost as good a deep threat as WFV and a huge upgrade over V. Smith. The thought of WFV/Stills/Hopkins with a protected Watson delivering them the ball is exciting. IMHO This also gives Coutee plenty of time to get healthy without having to be rushed back.
delete
Yes Tunsil would be drafted on the first round but I don't see how that means he only cost one first?
The other complication is he won't be on his cheap rookie deal for long, so we're not reaping much rookie value.
Still so good, but a second is still a valuable pick and I don't see wr as a position of need.
I'm in the it's about time for a change crowd. I get that people dont like change, but change is inevitable in life and the quicker you can adapt to change and I would say accept change the better off your life will be. Change is the way of the world. Gotta accept it and move on. Some Aggies on this MB struggle with this concept and prefer to live in the past.
I'm in the it's about time for a change crowd. I get that people dont like change, but change is inevitable in life and the quicker you can adapt to change and I would say accept change the better off your life will be. Change is the way of the world. Gotta accept it and move on. Some Aggies on this MB struggle with this concept and prefer to live in the past.
If you dont have a franchise LT would you give up a 1st (Tunsil) and another 1st to protect Watson? I would.
I consider WR to be a huge need, did you see what the offense looked like before WFV got hurt and after WFV got hurt? Are you blind are just argumentative? Still has basically the same skillset as WFV. That doesn't even bring Coutee and his injury past into the equation. When is the last season WFV/Coutee have been healthy for a full season? Never and you dont think WR is a huge need? LMAO
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Remember what Granny would say . A LT in the hand is worth two 1st round picks in the bush .
Seegara
Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
No, that's not how it goes. A dong in the bush is worth ten in the hand.
I'm hoping it's more accurately like last year when Reid was our top pick..
Many teams have managed to protect the QB without paying that crazy price for an LT. This is the highest cost ever paid for one. There are limited picks and a salary cap so that means we'll be much worse elsewhere.
And like I said stills is good. And in a world with infinite draft picks and no salary cap it would be great. But we're likely to just rent him a couple years at $8mil where a 2nd round is cheaper and under team control for 5 years.
I think a lot of your arguments make sense in a world where we can spend an infinite amount or we have unlimited picks. But we don't live in that world. Spending picks on a rental now hurts us much more long term. We need to balance the benefits and costs better than that
He showed up & is practicing. I wouldn't expect to hear anything about an extension any time soon.
I wouldn't be surprised if we do.
We need Stills until F5 & QT can prove to be dependable or until Vyncynt Smyth learns to run something other than a 9.
Whichever comes first.
More teams have sucked than not without a top tier LT. Are there exceptions? Sure
Can they afford Stills, yes Is he an upgrade over the injured WR's yes.
Is a Tunsil worth a 1st yes. Is Tunsil helping protect Watson worth the 1st for Tunsil and another 1st? Yes. They have the cap space to re-sign unsil and a 2nd, two 3rds/two 4ths to get the depth you seem to be craving. What's the downside again?
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
While this is true Tunsil may also not be willing to discussion an extension right now. I don’t blame the Texans for not trying to extend him yet nor would I blame Tunsil for wanting to wait also.
The guy has been on the week less than a week, has he even flown in yet, and both sides need to get a feel for each other. It’s something that needs to get done but with NO in less than a week there actually are bigger priorities.
This is the biggest problem with the coach and GM being the same guy no matter who that guy is. In a regular team set up the coach can focus on just getting the team ready while the GM worries about contracts. Is BoB up to the challenge of wearing both hats, guess we’ll find out.
I thought Olson was in charge of doing contracts?
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
What is it about this board that there is no middle ground? You either think Bill O’Brien is the worst thing to happen to Houston that wasn't described as a Cat 5 or you are an “O’Brien nuthugger”
Is it really so hard to believe that some people are just trying to look at all sides and see that just like everybody else he does something’s right and some things wrong.
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I didn't say most teams didn't suck without a good LT, I said teams with a good LT managed to find one without paying an insane amount.
They can "afford" Stills but it means no 2nd rounder in the future, which is too much cost for what he offers.
Is Tunsil worth that much? No, don't think he is.
There is a fixed amount of capspace and picks that teams are allotted. To become a contender you need to maximize your use of those. It's a zero sum game. Right now the Texans are just giving away value.
No, a third round pick is not as good as a first round pick.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
He maybe but you can’t tell me BoB doesn’t have to sign off on it or at least is consulted on it.
Doing? He makes sure they are written properly and follow league rules.
I doubt he's the one deciding how much a guy is worth. He's not a scout.
According to Cletus that's exactly what his job is and BOB signs off on the deals.
In other words you don't like change. I'm glad you don't run this franchise because Watson would end up like Luck and the rest of your post wouldn't matter.
I guess you're fine with me 17 years of the Texans org doing things your way and mediocrity ruling the day. Life must be hard for you due to your lack of being able to adapt to change.
I like Tunsil alright.
I wished they had kept DB.
They squandered an opportunity, IMO.
It would have made this "all in" move justifiable.
They could have used the first round draft pick this year on an edger rusher.
They could have use the second rounder (like Sweat) or on something else.
Maybe they could package the two second or a second and a third to move up to get a different CB (maybe Murphy, maybe Rock Yasin - I haven't really done my homework.)
But in a nutshell, they could have done the draft differently.
They could have shopped Clowney earlier (probably getting better value).
And do the draft with even more flexibility.
But the roster would have been drastically improved.
A true contender worth selling out the future for.
Just my 2 cents.
I wished they had kept DB.
They squandered an opportunity, IMO.
It would have made this "all in" move justifiable.
They could have used the first round draft pick this year on an edger rusher.
They could have use the second rounder (like Sweat) or on something else.
Maybe they could package the two second or a second and a third to move up to get a different CB (maybe Murphy, maybe Rock Yasin - I haven't really done my homework.)
But in a nutshell, they could have done the draft differently.
They could have shopped Clowney earlier (probably getting better value).
And do the draft with even more flexibility.
But the roster would have been drastically improved.
A true contender worth selling out the future for.
Just my 2 cents.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
You're using a lot of hindsight here, by DB I'm assuming you mean Duanu Brown, which not sure why people keep bringing him up since he hasn't been on the Texans roster for 2 years now. Brown was wanting an extension which would have been stupid on the Texans part. Brown was coming off two major injuries that had forced him to miss games and he still had two years left on his contract. There was absolutely no good reason, if we don't use hindsight, for the Texans to extend him. Then you add in his issues with Bob McNair and Brown was not going to stay a Texan, it just wasn't happening.
My guess is they have been shopping Clowney and there has just not been any serious offers. I'll ask again what team is going to look at Clowney and say "That's the guy we need to make a real SB run" or "That's the guy we need to build our defense around"? I think that's why Clowney fired his agent, he promised him Donalds and Mack money but Clowney isn't worth that kind of money and the market told him that.
Also, use the first round pick on an edge rusher? This board would have blown completely up and rightfully so. You are completely using hindsight, there was zero reason for the Texans to draft an edge rusher. Was there even an edge rusher worth taking at 23? Same with a CB, if they had packaged all that to take a defense guy and not drafted any Oline help then people would have rioted and rightfully so.
All these moves you are talking about are again in hindsight but even using hindsight they would not have "drastically improved" this team. Mainly because it would get Watson killed, everything you talked about is improving the defense. Texans are not a defense oriented team any more and frankly with Watson at QB we shouldn't be.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Bingo! Their inability to identify NFL level talent is questionable at best when given to their own devices. No longer is a guy like RICK SMITH around to save them from themselves and actually draft good players. The flame out rate during the OBrien era is shocking. Giving picks away to get rid of Brock Osweiler. Giving picks away to trade for guys who would have been cut. Giving picks away in one of the most lopsided trades in NFL history. Just really, really concerning managerial decisions.
Tytus Howard was a panic draft pick. They were caught flat footed and were so dead set at T and watched Dillard just vanish from their grasp that they balled up. The pick should have been the best CB in the draft or like you said Montez Sweat to replace JD (since its apparent the team wanted him gone dating back to the draft at least - should have been more proactive). Drafting guards late 1st or early 2nd is a recipe for disaster. If you really are drafting a guard early you better get the best one in the draft, and not get cute by taking a tackle and then moving him to guard and then everyone is supposed to be ok with that because he turns into a starter. Not the best way to stockpile talent. You could have gotten NFL ready G/C in the middle rounds.
This trend is fairly constant in OBrien drafts .. who are the big hits? Justin Reid? Bernardrick McKinney? Most of the studs on the roster were drafted by RICK SMITH!!
If this team was really going "all in" Melvin Gordon would be in the building.